Merged: Week 13 Comments on Offense

[funky141]

Win the next 3 games.

[codizzle]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1354633703' post='1246246']
Win the next 3 games.
[/quote]
That wouldn't be enough.. We make it to the playoffs every year.. Until we make it to the Superbowl, we are the same team.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354633626' post='1246243']
[size=4]Before I start, let me say I am a HUGE Joe Flacco supoorter, so don't think think this is a Flacco Bashin Post. This is Joe's 5th season and [u][b]he is by far The best QB we have ever had in our short history [/b][/u]IMO. It is also my opinion that we have all of the nesecary parts for a consitently explosive offense. So why don't we have it???? I have only 3 ideas. #1 COACHING: At times Cam has called great games, but then there are games that vleave you scratching your head. Yeah I no defenses gameplan but the Texans did more than plan, it seemed like they had a spy in the lockeroom. #2 PLAYERS: This is a little unlikely with players like Q, Ray Rice, Pitta, Leach, and company. I know they believe in their QB but again at times it looks like they are beat from the start. and #3 JOE FLACCO: Is it possible that he just does not have the ability to take it to the next level and stay there? I understand every QB has a bad game or two, but when this eason started, there was no way you could tell me Joe wouldn't pass for 4,000 yards and that he wasn't ELITE.Now I must admit, even I question his eliteness. Ravens Nation, help me understand because playing like we have for the last couiple weeks will not make it against much stronger teams than the steelers. WHAT WILL IT TAKE for the Ravens to permanently be in the conversation of Super Bowl contenders???[/size]
[/quote]

imo, this statement is lame, tired and played out! and at this point...it means absolutely nothing!

~Mili

[NJ-Raven]

@codizzle EXACTLY!!! I want more than just playoffs. Our defense is hurting. I want our Offense to step up and lead the way. But at this point it dont seem like thats happeneing

[NJ-Raven]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354634172' post='1246256']
imo, this statement is lame, tired and played out! and at this point...it means absolutely nothing!

~Mili
[/quote]Ok explain... like I said help me understand, because to me it is spot on

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354634358' post='1246260']
Ok explain... like I said help me understand, because to me it is spot on
[/quote]

to keep saying that Joe is the best QB we ever had means nothing to me at this point because it doesn't dismiss his poor QB game play at times. after 5 years in the league as a "starting" QB, Joe still struggles with over and under throwing wide open receivers. he still demonstrates a lack of pocket awareness and escaping ability when the pocket is collapsing, he holds the ball too long (perhaps due to the long passing routes that have to develop) most times resulting in sacks. Joe is the QB...the team will only go as far as he take them. he has to play better....no excuses made....no excuses accepted!

~Mili

[NJ-Raven]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354635034' post='1246278']
to keep saying that Joe is the best QB we ever had means nothing to me at this point because it doesn't dismiss his poor QB game play at times. after 5 years in the league as a "starting" QB, Joe still struggles with over and under throwing wide open receivers. he still demonstrates a lack of pocket awareness and escaping ability when the pocket is collapsing, he holds the ball too long (perhaps due to the long passing routes that have to develop) most times resulting in sacks. Joe is the QB...the team will only go as far as he take them. he has to play better....no excuses made....no excuses accepted!

~Mili
[/quote]OK but those long routes we run are dialed up by the coach, so shouldn't some adjustments be made at some point? With our crew of receivers we could work the seems and the flats. So once again the question is, is it JOE or CAM???

[NJ-Raven]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354635034' post='1246278']
to keep saying that Joe is the best QB we ever had means nothing to me at this point because it doesn't dismiss his poor QB game play at times. after 5 years in the league as a "starting" QB, Joe still struggles with over and under throwing wide open receivers. he still demonstrates a lack of pocket awareness and escaping ability when the pocket is collapsing, he holds the ball too long (perhaps due to the long passing routes that have to develop) most times resulting in sacks. Joe is the QB...the team will only go as far as he take them. he has to play better....no excuses made....no excuses accepted!

~Mili
[/quote]And I agree with you about his pocket presence, but you must admit the best quarterbacks hold on to the ball longer and try to make a good play when the pocket is collapsing around them.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354635463' post='1246284']
OK but those long routes we run are dialed up by the coach, so shouldn't some adjustments be made at some point? With our crew of receivers we could work the seems and the flats. So once again the question is, is it JOE or CAM???
[/quote]

a little bit of both! i definitely believe that Cam is a cancer. no doubt about it! but that doesn't absolve Flacco from his responsibilities as the QB to be a leader of men and that offense. Cam is not the reason why Flacco over and under throws receivers. Cam is not the reason why Flacco lacks pocket awareness and suffers sack/fumbles as a result of it. Flacco needs to step up...period! brah...when i am watching the games....and the Ravens have the ball....i always scream one thing at the tube....LEAD US JOE! LEAD US JOE! LEAD US JOE! and what happens? well, i think that you get the point!

~Mili

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354635738' post='1246288']
And I agree with you about his pocket presence, but you must admit the best quarterbacks hold on to the ball longer and try to make a good play when the pocket is collapsing around them.
[/quote]

pockets collapse. that isn't the issue. the issue is...what does the QB do about it?

~Mili

[NJ-Raven]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354636256' post='1246297']
a little bit of both! i definitely believe that Cam is a cancer. no doubt about it! but that doesn't absolve Flacco from his responsibilities as the QB to be a leader of men and that offense. Cam is not the reason why Flacco over and under throws receivers. Cam is not the reason why Flacco lacks pocket awareness and suffers sack/fumbles as a result of it. Flacco needs to step up...period! brah...when i am watching the games....and the Ravens have the ball....i always scream one thing at the tube....LEAD US JOE! LEAD US JOE! LEAD US JOE! and what happens? well, i think that you get the point!

~Mili
[/quote]Well with that said, I have no dispute. I wait for the day Joe takes control of this thing as well. Thought this was the year, turns out I was wrong. Which takes me back to my original question...What will it take? What has to change? or Who needs to go?

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354635463' post='1246284']
OK but those long routes we run are dialed up by the coach, so shouldn't some adjustments be made at some point? With our crew of receivers we could work the seems and the flats. So once again the question is, is it JOE or CAM???
[/quote]

Why doesn't he make the adjustment though? I don't mean ignore Cam's play call, but if he drops back sees something different he should adjust. He doesn't...he goes to where the play is designed or quickly checks down. Never really improvises.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354635738' post='1246288']
And I agree with you about his pocket presence, but you must admit the best quarterbacks hold on to the ball longer and try to make a good play when the pocket is collapsing around them.
[/quote]

They also move around in the pocket. Joe doesn't not. He rarely even steps up, much less manuevers the pocket.

[NJ-Raven]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1354637132' post='1246316']
They also move around in the pocket. Joe doesn't not. He rarely even steps up, much less manuevers the pocket.
[/quote]OK so am I correct at assuming that some of the ravens nation are begining to wonder if Joe is the qb thats gonna take us all the way????

[Radinho84]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354637425' post='1246323']
OK so am I correct at assuming that some of the ravens nation are begining to wonder if Joe is the qb thats gonna take us all the way????
[/quote]
that is correct. to get to the SB you have to win outside of your house. flacco does´t look good on the road this year and he is far from being elite at home.

the truth about flacco is that he isn´t a qb for great stats and all but he is clutch. he proved it many times.
on the other hand he looks like a fool when he overthrows those open guys so often.

people keep saying that he has a great deep ball. honestly i cannot see that. the only thing i see is flacco overthrowing or under throwing torrey smith A LOT on those routes.

we keep saying that our guys cannot get separation. but what when they are open and the ball is placed five feet over their head?

i have trust in flacco - no doubt about that. but he is not a top 10 quarterback. he is way to inconsistent to be elite.

he will get his huge contract after the year because there is no better player available for us. but there will always be the same doubts about his play...

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1354637068' post='1246315']
Why doesn't he make the adjustment though? I don't mean ignore Cam's play call, but if he drops back sees something different he should adjust. He doesn't...he goes to where the play is designed or quickly checks down. Never really improvises.
[/quote]
what makes you believe that he is able to adjust those things?
when he isn´t able to sense the pressure how should he be able to adjust to it?

[Gashman]

As a coach, you have all off season to determine the talent level of your players, you make cuts and determine starters from backups, and you bring in guys to fill holes.

You have pre determined systems you will be running, and you try and find guys that fit into that system.

If your talent you have includes a Pro Bowl RB and FB, it would make sense that you would have a power running game featured every week, with play action off of that, you would think.

Along the way, you determine that things aren't optimal to make your system work, like an Oline that can't sustain blocks long enough for your QB to throw the ball down the field. THIS IS WHERE COACHING COMES IN!

Yes you have a QB with a big arm that CAN throw it down the field no problem, but without time for these routes to develop, you would think there needs to be an underneath route built in for a quick pass to prevent a sack in case of a blitz, or routes to get the ball out of your QB' s hand quicker to prevent a sack.

If You know your common passing route play calls on 3rd down are not working, or are heavily covered because the defense has studied our 3rd down tendencies, you would think new plays would be implemented to throw them off.

When having a lead in the 4th Quarter, you would think that the best way to close out a game would be to run the ball and burn clock, play calling to prevent stupid turnover situations.

If you are a head coach, and seeing these things cost you 3rd downs and games every week, would you think this was a top priority?

Is it me, or are we playing STUPID FOOTBALL?

[Radinho84]

[quote name='Gashman' timestamp='1354638452' post='1246344']
As a coach, you have all off season to determine the talent level of your players, you make cuts and determine starters from backups, and you bring in guys to fill holes.

You have pre determined systems you will be running, and you try and find guys that fit into that system.

If your talent you have includes a Pro Bowl RB and FB, it would make sense that you would have a power running game featured every week, with play action off of that, you would think.

Along the way, you determine that things aren't optimal to make your system work, like an Oline that can't sustain blocks long enough for your QB to throw the ball down the field. THIS IS WHERE COACHING COMES IN!

Yes you have a QB with a big arm that CAN throw it down the field no problem, but without time for these routes to develop, you would think there needs to be an underneath route built in for a quick pass to prevent a sack in case of a blitz, or routes to get the ball out of your QB' s hand quicker to prevent a sack.

If You know your common passing route play calls on 3rd down are not working, or are heavily covered because the defense has studied our 3rd down tendencies, you would think new plays would be implemented to throw them off.

When having a lead in the 4th Quarter, you would think that the best way to close out a game would be to run the ball and burn clock, play calling to prevent stupid turnover situations.

If you are a head coach, and seeing these things cost you 3rd downs and games every week, would you think this was a top priority?

Is it me, or are we playing STUPID FOOTBALL?
[/quote]
the thing is:
with the personal we had over the last five years compared to the other teams in the league: Do you think we should have won at least one SB?

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='NJ-Raven' timestamp='1354637425' post='1246323']
OK so am I correct at assuming that some of the ravens nation are begining to wonder if Joe is the qb thats gonna take us all the way????
[/quote] I think he is capable but he is not progressing under the current coaching staff.

[rezarxt]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/the-shame-report/0ap2000000105886/The-Shame-Report-Week-13

The Steelers lover boy even says its not Flaccos fault. Its Cam Cameron. He made the shame report rightfully so.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='rezarxt' timestamp='1354717499' post='1247257']
[url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/the-shame-report/0ap2000000105886/The-Shame-Report-Week-13"]http://www.nfl.com/v...-Report-Week-13[/url]

The Steelers lover boy even says its not Flaccos fault. Its Cam Cameron. He made the shame report rightfully so.
[/quote]

That says a lot because he loves to pick on Flacco.

[black blood purple passion]

If Fans sign a petition to fire cam would it actually work?

I know the arguement comes up "well then who would take over"

my response would be: Worst case Scenario we hire the local high school coach, his playbook will be strikingly similar. Best case scenario someone from the NFL who isn't Cam, maybe give a few colleges a ring, see if they want to jump up to the NFL, and give it a shot.

Look at Drew Brees during the 2002-2006 stint with Cam Cameron calling his plays...only one year over 4000 yards. (in spight of Cam's play calling) mediocre stats across the board. We all know how great Drew Brees is but he only blew up once Cam had left. In that 2006 year Philip Rivers had came play calling and got 3000 something yards, but then blew up after that (mind you he's fallen off the wagon now but bare with me)

Under Cam QB's will only ever be average, Joe has potential but we're squandering it with this juvenile offensive playbook and play calling. Get Cam out of here, and get someone with some Kahonas and intelligence. Cams plays are so easy to read and disect, NFL defences think we're a joke. If I remember correctly I believe Jonathan Vilma called out our offence as being incredibly simple and easy to game plan for.

Fire Cam! Fire Cam! Fire Cam!

[Twistidfunk]

This is really getting out of control. The whole league can see the problem except our supposed top notch Brass in the corner offices.

Just ridiculous. Cam should have been gone with Lee Evans and Cundiff.

This season we had some fun games and I have enjoyed it but the end result will not be what we had hoped for and all because Harbs and Ozzie/ Biscotti refuse to kick Cam to the curb. It is a shame because the fans know how good the Ravens could be. I think that is why we are all so ticked off. We know we are better and can win these games but not with this coaching.

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1354718436' post='1247266']
If Fans sign [b]a petition [/b]to fire cam would it actually work?

I know the arguement comes up "well then who would take over"

my response would be: Worst case Scenario we hire the local high school coach, his playbook will be strikingly similar. Best case scenario someone from the NFL who isn't Cam, maybe give a few colleges a ring, see if they want to jump up to the NFL, and give it a shot.

Look at Drew Brees during the 2002-2006 stint with Cam Cameron calling his plays...only one year over 4000 yards. (in spight of Cam's play calling) mediocre stats across the board. We all know how great Drew Brees is but he only blew up once Cam had left. In that 2006 year Philip Rivers had came play calling and got 3000 something yards, but then blew up after that (mind you he's fallen off the wagon now but bare with me)

Under Cam QB's will only ever be average, Joe has potential but we're squandering it with this juvenile offensive playbook and play calling. Get Cam out of here, and get someone with some Kahonas and intelligence. Cams plays are so easy to read and disect, NFL defences think we're a joke. If I remember correctly I believe Jonathan Vilma called out our offence as being incredibly simple and easy to game plan for.

Fire Cam! Fire Cam! Fire Cam!
[/quote]

there is one going on already
[url="https://www.change.org/petitions/baltimore-ravens-relieve-cam-cameron-of-his-job-as-ravens-offensive-coordinator"]https://www.change.org/petitions/baltimore-ravens-relieve-cam-cameron-of-his-job-as-ravens-offensive-coordinator[/url]

[Guest Mr. Nobody]

[quote name='Twistidfunk' timestamp='1354719277' post='1247272']
This is really getting out of control. The whole league can see the problem except our supposed top notch Brass in the corner offices.

Just ridiculous. Cam should have been gone with Lee Evans and Cundiff.

This season we had some fun games and I have enjoyed it but the end result will not be what we had hoped for and all because Harbs and Ozzie/ Biscotti refuse to kick Cam to the curb. It is a shame because the fans know how good the Ravens could be. I think that is why we are all so ticked off. We know we are better and can win these games but not with this coaching.
[/quote]

we are fans and supossed to behave like fans... cheering our team through good or bad... we cannot ask the owner to do what we want with his money

[Florida Ravens Fan]

Well as fans we are sort of the reason they make money....no? Buying merchandise, tickets, apparel ect.... why cant we then influence on a decision to fire Cam?

[CapoRocky]

I'm sure that there is some college coach out there that would love to be our OC. Fire Cameron!

[SteelerEmpire]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1354721484' post='1247300']
I'm sure that there is some college coach out there that would love to be our OC. [b]Fire Cameron![/b]
[/quote]

It was amazing that the Steelers kept Bruce Arians as long as they did. Any OC that helps his team get into the playoffs the previous year is difficult to get rid of even though it's pretty well known he's not very good; at least that was one of the issues in Pittsburgh. Only real issue with a new OC is that it could take a year or two before the offense gets back to firing on all cylinders... which is very aggravating as well. I personally think Cam Cam has been the difference in the Ravens not getting a SB title. He's been a 'decent' OC, but just not "good enough" to get the team over the hump -as the defense for the Ravens has always been there and did it's job. I mean even opposing team's fans (let alone a good defensive coordinator on the other side of the field) can now sit and call out his plays before they happen.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='SteelerEmpire' timestamp='1354725189' post='1247364']
It was amazing that the Steelers kept Bruce Arians as long as they did. Any OC that helps his team get into the playoffs the previous year is difficult to get rid of even though it's pretty well known he's not very good; at least that was one of the issues in Pittsburgh. Only real issue with a new OC is that it could take a year or two before the offense gets back to firing on all cylinders... which is very aggravating as well. I personally think Cam Cam has been the difference in the Ravens not getting a SB title. He's been a 'decent' OC, but just not "good enough" to get the team over the hump -as the defense for the Ravens has always been there and did it's job. I mean even opposing team's fans (let alone a good defensive coordinator on the other side of the field) can now sit and call out his plays before they happen.
[/quote]
I think Arians is actually a good coordinator, just did not fit the blueprint of how Pittsburgh wanted the offense run. If you look at the job he's doing in Indianapolis with a rookie QB, a rookie TE and a 35 year old WR it's pretty remarkable in my opinion at least. Arians just wasn't the best fit for Pittsburgh even though he helped win a Super Bowl. Arians problems revolved around not running the ball enough to use PA effectively, but given the state of the Oline during his run I can't really blame him.

Having said all that, Cameron neither runs the ball effectively consistently nor devises actual aerial attacks effectively. When Cam's stuff works its unbelievable. Problem is that's like 3 times a year. THe rest of the time its awful.

[gotekiraven]

The Shame Report is dead on accurate. It's nice to see that others who are outside of the Raven's fan base sees what is going on. It's been statistically proven time and time again that when Rice doesn't get his touches, we are likely to lose. Not one touch in the fourth quarter? Not ONE?! WTH! Harb's excuse was just to brush off the question instead of putting the blame on his good buddy, pal, chum Cam Cameron. But what the heck, Harb will always be invited to Cam's pancake social events.