Chiefs Jovan Belcher kills girlfriend, then commits suicide (developing)

[Gordo52]

That poor child.... this is really heartbreaking. It happens every day around the world & we never hear about it. I'm just so thankful right now, life is so precious...no matter how bad you THINK you got it. God bless all of yous, I hope we all can keep this in the back of our minds whenever we think we got it bad or are making negative decisions towards our loved ones...just think of what that kids going to go through.

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354392319' post='1239733']
Murder by definition requires malicious intent. To my knowledge, no one knows the details of what happened.
[/quote]

Quoted for truth. It's highly possible that he did not intend to shoot her and then "lost it" when he did. Between remorse and fear of spending his life in jail, I can see the choice to commit suicide making sense to him.

[poescrows]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354392319' post='1239733']
Murder by definition requires malicious intent. To my knowledge, no one knows the details of what happened. Mental illness can in fact drive people to do things otherwise thought to be inhumane. It's not an excuse. It's the truth. I'm not saying that is what happened here, but without evidence it is impossible to definitively call Belcher a murderer.
[/quote] Eye witness to the girl getting shot multiple times by Belcher = "melicious intent" [url="http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/12/01/kansas-city-chiefs-player-shoots-self-at-arrowhead-stadium/"]http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/12/01/kansas-city-chiefs-player-shoots-self-at-arrowhead-stadium/[/url]

[JO_75]

Ok guys, no more arguing, which is all pointless. We weren't there, we don't know him personally to say he had a mental problem or had any other problem.

[berad]

Take it to PMs or not at all. This is a thread for the tragedy of two young people dead, two families torn, a shaken organization/community, and a parent-less child

Squabbling over other things is not pertinent. Again, discuss it privately but this is not the place for it.

[gdwy89]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354392319' post='1239733']
Murder by definition requires malicious intent. To my knowledge, no one knows the details of what happened. Mental illness can in fact drive people to do things otherwise thought to be inhumane. It's not an excuse. It's the truth. I'm not saying that is what happened here, but without evidence it is impossible to definitively call Belcher a murderer.
[/quote]

I think it's certainly possible to definiteively call Belcher a murderer if the reports we are hearing are factual.

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354391960' post='1239725']
your missing the point that everyone is arguing with you about here
[/quote]
[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354391903' post='1239721']
your still making an assumption whereas blood raven was not. He called him a cold blooded murder. Mental illness or not that's exactly what he is.
[/quote]

I am making an assumption based on science.

Ultimately, I think this disagreement stems from a difference of opinion on what "cold-blooded murder" actually means. "Cold-blooded" actions are in direct opposition to "hot-blooded" action (related: hot cognition, emotional). This crime is "cold-blooded" if reports suggest that Belcher killed his girlfriend [b]just to do it[/b]. In reality they don't. Reports have shown that this incident stemmed from an argument (i.e. emotion, hot-blood) about him [url="http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/3943363/source-belcher-murder-suicide.html#storylink=cpy"]coming home too late from a concert[/url].

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354393295' post='1239743']
He's a murderer until proven otherwise, not mentally ill until proved otherwise.

...

This situation is no different until its proven he had a mental illness, and as blood said, he has no history of concussions, and is only 25 years old, so it's highly likely that's not the case.
[/quote]

That is unequivocally not how the United States justice system works.

Moreover, research (that I have already linked, but has obviously not been read) suggests that a player can have no history of concussions and still stuffer from CTE as early as age 18 due to the thousands of micro-collisions that occur from years of playing a contact sport.

Also: you're*

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354393449' post='1239747']

Go read what I said again. I never said he was or wasnt anything. I said you cant label someone without knowing all the facts. And no, he isnt a murderer until proven otherwise. That's not how the justice system works.
[/quote]i wasn't talking about the justice system, obviously it's innocent until proven guilty, I was talking about the other guy saying he's not a murderer because he's POSSIBLY mentally ill.

To me, he's a murder until proven he was mentally ill. You can't give anyone that takes someone else's his life the benefit of the doubt because he may have an illness because he played football, especially when if he didnt play football Everyman and his dog would be saying he is a murderer.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='poescrows' timestamp='1354393951' post='1239758']
Eye witness to the girl getting shot multiple times by Belcher = "melicious intent" [url="http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/12/01/kansas-city-chiefs-player-shoots-self-at-arrowhead-stadium/"]http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2012/12/01/kansas-city-chiefs-player-shoots-self-at-arrowhead-stadium/[/url]
[/quote]
Thats not true.

[BirdWatcher]

And yet multiple reports describe him as a fine young man who was generous and active in the community. I think we should quit arguing over speculation and let the story unfold.

In the meanwhile, condolences to the families, friends, and Chiefs organization are certainly in order.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gdwy89' timestamp='1354394055' post='1239761']


I think it's certainly possible to definiteively call Belcher a murderer if the reports we are hearing are factual.




I am making an assumption based on science.

Ultimately, I think this disagreement stems from a difference of opinion on what "cold-blooded murder" actually means. "Cold-blooded" actions are in direct opposition to "hot-blooded" action (related: hot cognition, emotional). This crime is "cold-blooded" if reports suggest that Belcher killed his girlfriend [b]just to do it[/b]. In reality they don't. Reports have shown that this incident stemmed from an argument (i.e. emotion, hot-blood) about him [url="http://www.kansascity.com/2012/12/01/3943363/source-belcher-murder-suicide.html#storylink=cpy"]coming home too late from a concert[/url].



That is unequivocally not how the United States justice system works.

Moover, research (that I have already linked, but has obviously not been read) suggests that a player can have no history of concussions and still stuffer from CTE from as early as age 18 due to the thousands of micro-collisions that occur from years of playing a contact sport.

Also: you're*
[/quote]again, I wasn't referring the justice system, I know how it works, well I'm assuming its the same in the us as it is here. My father was a policeman, so I understand that.

I was referring to giving someone the benefit of the doubt because he's a footballer and may have a mental illness. It's not a case of he's mentally ill until proven he's not, it's a case of him being a murderer until its proven he was mentally ill.

If the local drug dealer kills someone in your neighbourhood do you say, awh ill hold judgement until I find out wether he is or isn't mentally ill?

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1354393955' post='1239759']
Ok guys, no more arguing, which is all pointless. We weren't there, we don't know him personally to say he had a mental problem or had any other problem.
[/quote]

This, let's all just agree to disagree. It's a terrible tragedy.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354394107' post='1239763']
i wasn't talking about the justice system, obviously it's innocent until proven guilty, I was talking about the other guy saying he's not a murderer because he's POSSIBLY mentally ill.

To me, he's a murder until proven he was mentally ill. You can't give anyone that takes someone else's his life the benefit of the doubt because he may have an illness because he played football, especially when if he didnt play football Everyman and his dog would be saying he is a murderer.
[/quote]

Well he did play football. And once again you are speculating about things you dont know. I'm not saying he is innocent and I'm not saying he was mentally ill. My point is neither you nor I know what happened. I do know that repeated head trauma, like a LB ramming his helmet into other people's helmets, causes brain damage. Just because he had no "history " of concussions doesn't mean everything was perfect upstairs. Is it normal for successful young men to shoot their girlfriend and mother of a 2 month old child?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1354394387' post='1239769']


This, let's all just agree to disagree. It's a terrible tragedy.
[/quote]
Yes. That we can all agree on.

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1354394387' post='1239769']


This, let's all just agree to disagree. It's a terrible tragedy.
[/quote]So true on many levels.

[poescrows]

[quote[u] name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354394189' post='1239764']
Thats not true.
[/u][/quote] How do you figure that? Malicious:having or showing a desire to cause harm to someone . An eye witness to someone pointing a loaded gun at another person and pulling the trigger is not "having or showing a desire to cause harm to someone "?

[berad]

The tragedy is of two young people dead, torn families, a community/organization shaken, and a parent-less infant.

I could care less the circumstances surrounding it, it happened and it will be drilled into these people's lives for as long as they live.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1354394595' post='1239772']


Well he did play football. And once again you are speculating about things you dont know. I'm not saying he is innocent and I'm not saying he was mentally ill. My point is neither you nor I know what happened. I do know that repeated head trauma, like a LB ramming his helmet into other people's helmets, causes brain damage. Just because he had no "history " of concussions doesn't mean everything was perfect upstairs. Is it normal for successful young men to shoot their girlfriend and mother of a 2 month old child?
[/quote]isnt assuming he had a mental issue the speculation? That's my point. He took a life, fact. He may have mental illness, speculation, opinion whatever you want to call it.

I know what your saying about mental illness and I know your sitting on the fence, so forgive me, I'm not coming at you in any way.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354394853' post='1239779']
isnt assuming he had a mental issue the speculation? That's my point. He took a life, fact. He may have mental illness, speculation, opinion whatever you want to call it.

I know what your saying about mental illness and I know your sitting on the fence, so forgive me, I'm not coming at you in any way.
[/quote]
Once again you are putting words in my mouth. You cant seem to grasp what I am saying so I'll just leave it at that.

[Moderator 2]

Please keep it civil! We don't have all the facts so speculation will be divisive, violence is very personal to all. Thankyou you Gabefergy and Bloodraven for walking away .

[gdwy89]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1354394387' post='1239769']
This, let's all just agree to disagree. It's a terrible tragedy.
[/quote]

Indeed.

For those that want to remain updated on the situation as it unfolds, [url="http://deadspin.com/5964841/reports-kansas-city-chiefs-lb-jovan-belcher-killed-his-girlfriend-drove-to-the-chiefs-practice-facility-and-killed-himself-%5Bupdating%5D"]here is a very detailed post[/url] that will be continuously updated throughout the day.

Some [s]highlights[/s] lowlights: incredibly, this is [url="http://deadspin.com/5964858/this-is-not-the-first-murder+suicide-outside-arrowhead-stadium-this-year"]not the first time[/url] a situation such as this has happened to the Chiefs this year.

[bauer77]

This from someone who was supposedly Belcher's roommate freshman year in college: "[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][size=4][color=#000000]From all my personal interactions, Jovan was very soft-spoken and kind but also prone to violent outbursts. If I recall, he punched through a basement floor window that had mesh-wire in it after a fight with his then girlfriend."[/color][/size][/font]


My thoughts and prayers go out to both families and that little girl. I feel so very sorry for that little girl, only 3 months old, and both her parents gone.

[Mt. Crushmore]

[quote name='SteelerStorm' timestamp='1354380328' post='1239537']
Wow...You get information fast...
[/quote]

I'm on Twitter a lot.

[Mt. Crushmore]

From Aaron Wilson's twitter @RavensInsider: Chiefs: 'Chiefs advised the NFL that it will play game vs. the Carolina Panthers at originally scheduled time.

[JO_75]

Chiefs-Panthers will take place as scheduled at 1:00p.m.

[quote]“After discussions between the league office, Head Coach Romeo Crennel and Chiefs team captains, the Chiefs advised the NFL that it will play tomorrow’s game vs. the Carolina Panthers at its originally scheduled time,” the release read.[/quote]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/12/01/chiefs-will-play-panthers-at-regularly-scheduled-time/

[Mt. Crushmore]

From Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter: Along with GM Scott Pioli and HC Romeo Crennel, LB coach Gary Gibbs was other coach in vicinity of Jovan Belcher when he took his life.

[JO_75]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1354397535' post='1239821']
From Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter: Along with GM Scott Pioli and HC Romeo Crennel, LB coach Gary Gibbs was other coach in vicinity of Jovan Belcher when he took his life.
[/quote]

Oh wow.. unbelievable.

[Mt. Crushmore]

"Before Jovan killed himself he called me (agent) saying, "Please make sure my beautiful daughter lives the best life possible. I love her."

Quote from his agent.

[display name]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1354399259' post='1239850']
"Before Jovan killed himself he called me (agent) saying, "Please make sure my beautiful daughter lives the best life possible. I love her."

Quote from his agent.
[/quote]
Wonder why he killed the girlfriend.

[Mt. Crushmore]

Everyone go to Andrew Bynums twitter @33Bynum and find his tweet where he says every RT and follow = $1 donation to the baby girl. Same goes for @Jovan_Belcher which was an account just made by his agent. It is the least that we can do for the little girl.

[bdravens]

[quote name='Mt. Crushmore' timestamp='1354399259' post='1239850']
"Before Jovan killed himself he called me (agent) saying, "Please make sure my beautiful daughter lives the best life possible. I love her."

Quote from his agent.
[/quote]
Gives me chills. The worst part of this, other than the act itself and a 2 month old child no longer having parents, was that I read people were more concerned that it was somebody like Jamaal Charles who would affect their fantasy team. That's pretty pathetic from a human standpoint.