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BenMir

Merged: Pro Bowl Voting - Cary Williams Leading AFC CBs

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Can someone please explain to me how is Cary Williams the most voted CB in the afc? I know the probowl doesn't say squat because it's a popularity contest.. so.. how is Cary first?
Also, they listed Pollard as a Steeler, so I'm not sure if they mean our Pollard or Hairball.

JJ, Ngata&Leach also lead their positions.
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Cary Williams has a lot of interceptions, his name is mentioned a lot and he plays for the Ravens. So if a person that doesn't know what the Ravens are up to is going through the positions and they see a Ravens cornerback that leads the AFC in interceptions they will vote. I'm all for it, I support my Ravens. I don't love the way they always play, but I support them regardless
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It's crazy sometimes. No doubt Pollard should be ahead of Troy since Hairball has done nothing this season when he did play and mostly has just guarded the bench.
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[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1354124907' post='1237154']
It's crazy sometimes. No doubt Pollard should be ahead of Troy since Hairball has done nothing this season when he did play and mostly has just guarded the bench.
[/quote]
Agreed about Pollard. He's not perfect but he's pretty darn good at what he does. Even if what he does is getting called for penalties just because the refs hate him
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[quote name='BenMir' timestamp='1354124611' post='1237148']
Can someone please explain to me how is Cary Williams the most voted CB in the afc? I know the probowl doesn't say squat because it's a popularity contest.. so.. how is Cary first?
Also, they listed Pollard as a Steeler, so I'm not sure if they mean our Pollard or Hairball.

JJ, Ngata&Leach also lead their positions.
[/quote]

Sounds like people need to get over Cary's early season Struggles and finally realize that Cary Williams is a really good CB. Is he lockdown or as good as Webb? No, but he doesn't have to be. Also other then Revis, there probably isn't any true lockdown CBs in the NFL and even he gets help from the refs.

Cary isn't perfect, but the guy is playing his tail off and is becoming better and better. It's a shame that his own fanbase can't get behind the guy. Every week i watch 1 Winning Drive i notice somebody on the sideline challenging Cary to go from good to great. The guy is very talent, but again it's just a shame that we as a fanbase will hold a grudge against a guy for a small stretch of poor play.

So if he is truly leading the Pro Bowl vote, I say Congrats to him.
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The Pro-Bowl has turned into a bit of a mockery in recent years. There are times when I believe that the fan vote should count for less than a 3rd of the total. Or perhaps the ballots should administer an QB test beforehand. I'm joking, of course, but you can catch my drift. I still recall in 2009 when Adam Vinatieri and Troy Polamalu led the fan vote in their respective positions, with neither of them playing more than 6 games throughout that entire season. I personally believe that having the Pro-Bowl before the SuperBowl has watered down the names that are involved, thus watering down the meaning behind a Pro-Bowl selection. A SuperBowl team is likely to have more than one Pro-Bowl player, and with players continuously bowing out either voluntarily or non-voluntarily, some positions dig down to the second and third alternatives. I can understand if every player drops out, and there is a need to fill the roster, but their participation should come with a small asterisk.
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Cary is significantly better now than early in the season. (Pats game)
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I did some searching for other sites that listed the current leaders because I couldn't figure out if they had the name wrong or the team for SS position. As near as I can tell by comparing sites these are the Ravens who are leading the votes at their positions:

Leach, Jacoby Jones, Pollard, Ed Reed, Ngata, Williams.

We need a campaign for Rice after the San Diego game.
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As always, I hope that our players are honored as Pro Bowlers, but I don't want them going to Hawaii... I want their reservations in New Orleans ;)
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[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1354125476' post='1237158']
Sounds like people need to get over Cary's early season Struggles and finally realize that Cary Williams is a really good CB. Is he lockdown or as good as Webb? No, but he doesn't have to be. Also other then Revis, there probably isn't any true lockdown CBs in the NFL and even he gets help from the refs.

Cary isn't perfect, but the guy is playing his tail off and is becoming better and better. It's a shame that his own fanbase can't get behind the guy. Every week i watch 1 Winning Drive i notice somebody on the sideline challenging Cary to go from good to great. The guy is very talent, but again it's just a shame that we as a fanbase will hold a grudge against a guy for a small stretch of poor play.

So if he is truly leading the Pro Bowl vote, I say Congrats to him.
[/quote]

I don't mean to turn this into a debate about Williams, as we've had enough of them on this forum, but I wouldn't categorize them as early season struggles given that one of his worst performances came in Houston, which was right before the halfway mark. I do believe that Cary should receive more credit for the 3 games after, a stretch wherein he played very well. But his struggles don't seem to be behind him, with Williams allowing 7 receptions on 8 targets, 86 yards, 1 TD and a QB rating of 151.0 in San Diego. Apart from the Raiders game, I don't recall Cary being challenged by his teammates otherwise, though I could be mistaken. And while that can be a positive sign, it's not always the case. His 3 game streak was impressive, and it was a shame that it didn't continue into this week. But after an up and down 2011 campaign and a relatively rough start, he'll need a longer stretch of positive games to change opinions, especially since he still ranks within in the Bottom 10 in burn percentages and Bottom 4 in receiving yards and TDs allowed among CBs with over 60% of defensive snaps.
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[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1354126611' post='1237176']
I don't mean to turn this into a debate about Williams, as we've had enough of them on this forum, but I wouldn't categorize them as early season struggles given that one of his worst performances came in Houston, which was right before the halfway mark. I do believe that Cary should receive more credit for the 3 games after, a stretch wherein he played very well. But his struggles don't seem to be behind him, with Williams allowing 7 receptions on 8 targets, 86 yards, 1 TD and a QB rating of 151.0 in San Diego. Apart from the Raiders game, I don't recall Cary being challenged by his teammates otherwise, though I could be mistaken. And while that can be a positive sign, it's not always the case. His 3 game streak was impressive, and it was a shame that it didn't continue into this week. But after an up and down 2011 campaign and a relatively rough start, he'll need a longer stretch of positive games to change opinions, especially since he still ranks within in the Bottom 10 in burn percentages and Bottom 4 in receiving yards and TDs allowed among CBs with over 60% of defensive snaps.
[/quote]

To be fair - our entire defense looked like crap against Houston.

It seems to me that Cary does well when our defense is doing well, and does terrible when our defense is doing terrible. He has looked a lot better lately, and I hope he continues to improve.

I think with the performances he gave in the first half of the season, now whenever his receiver catches a ball, everyone is very quick to say "Of course, Cary." That then sticks in everyone's minds, so it's easier to see the bad over the good. But then again, that goes for almost all corners. If they play lights out in a game, a QB is most likely going to be targeting any other WR than the person they are covering. Then you don't see them play at all, so you can't give them the credit they deserve. But if they misplay the receiver and get blown out, that single play will overwrite the 10 good plays that they've done before it.
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[quote name='J-man' timestamp='1354126851' post='1237180']
Can't you just appreciate the fact and not hate on it? He's on your team.
[/quote]
It's not an issue of hating Cary as much as it is an issue of the belief that probowlers are the best players in their position.
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Fanvote only means so much - there's still the players and the coaches. Besides, all you need to do is look at these numbers - 58 percent completion percentage, 20 TDs, 11 picks, quarterback rating 80.4, and realize that guy went to the probowl last year, to see how useless it is.
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What cb in the AFC is playing better than him?I guess you could say Champ Bailey since denvers secondary is playing good but after him theres nobody.Ike Taylor drops ints and Joseph and Revis are hurt.I havent heard much about Cromartie so idk how hes playing.
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[quote name='terpsnation' timestamp='1354127132' post='1237183']
To be fair - our entire defense looked like crap against Houston.

It seems to me that Cary does well when our defense is doing well, and does terrible when our defense is doing terrible. He has looked a lot better lately, and I hope he continues to improve.

I think with the performances he gave in the first half of the season, now whenever his receiver catches a ball, everyone is very quick to say "Of course, Cary." That then sticks in everyone's minds, so it's easier to see the bad over the good. But then again, that goes for almost all corners. If they play lights out in a game, a QB is most likely going to be targeting any other WR than the person they are covering. Then you don't see them play at all, so you can't give them the credit they deserve. But if they misplay the receiver and get blown out, that single play will overwrite the 10 good plays that they've done before it.
[/quote]

That's definitely true, although that doesn't completely negate his poor performance.

That's a relatively fair assessment, using the New England game, for an example. However, I felt that our defenses played well in general against Cincinnati and San Diego and those weren't his best efforts. But overall, your point makes sense.

I can't disagree with any part of this paragraph. I do believe that there is that automatic response at times, and that his bad plays are more memorable. Like you've said though, I believe that this could apply to any player depending on their past performances.
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[quote name='HomeoftheBRAVENS' timestamp='1354127722' post='1237199']
What cb in the AFC is playing better than him?I guess you could say Champ Bailey since denvers secondary is playing good but after him theres nobody.Ike Taylor drops ints and Joseph and Revis are hurt.I havent heard much about Cromartie so idk how hes playing.
[/quote]

That's pretty inaccurate. There are several names ahead of him, such as Brandon Flowers, Joe Haden and Antonio Cromartie. And Jonathan Joseph has been active in every game but the last one.
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[quote name='HomeoftheBRAVENS' timestamp='1354127722' post='1237199']
What cb in the AFC is playing better than him?I guess you could say Champ Bailey since denvers secondary is playing good but after him theres nobody.Ike Taylor drops ints and Joseph and Revis are hurt.I havent heard much about Cromartie so idk how hes playing.
[/quote]

What corners are playing better than Cary in the AFC?

Bradon Flowers
Antonio Cromartie
Joe Haden
The Champ
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Buddy pretty soon the Pro Bowl will be a thing of the past as the players do not give 100% and the league sees that and has even stated that it may come to an end if the players do not perform up to their level. Even though it is an honorary thing and votes come from other players you can expect some crazy results like Cary being in. I agree, he is a very bad CB. He has been burnt more times then toast and it does not seem that he will change any time soon. The guy is what he is and that is a 3rd string player. He never plays the ball, plays off of the receiver and never attempts to press them. He is a very weak CB and he is here because he is the best of a very bad situation. If he dropped from the NFL today who would even care ? I am going to look at the numbers after this post but i am sure i will find he has gotten abused more then any other member of the defense and yes that includes the hopeless Cody <----- what a joke. Reminds me of a movie with robin williams "Flubber". Cody has zero in the strength dept and is on his back more then on his own 2 feet.
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A good number of INTs and he hasn't been playing badly recently. Though I think his better play will probably price him out of being re-signed by us in the offseason.
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[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1354128429' post='1237205']
That's pretty inaccurate. There are several names ahead of him, such as Brandon Flowers, Joe Haden and Antonio Cromartie. And Jonathan Joseph has been active in every game but the last one.
[/quote]
[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1354128710' post='1237210']
What corners are playing better than Cary in the AFC?

Bradon Flowers
Antonio Cromartie
Joe Haden
The Champ
[/quote]


Joe Haden hasnt even played for most of the year and Joseph hasnt played well.I didnt mean hes missed games.He got hurt during the texans @ jets game and hasnt been the same since(except for our game).Hes a big part of the reason why the texans have given up close to 80 points and a 1000 yards in the past 2 games.He got picked on in the packers game.Plus,I mentioned Bailey.
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[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1354126611' post='1237176']


I don't mean to turn this into a debate about Williams, as we've had enough of them on this forum, but I wouldn't categorize them as early season struggles given that one of his worst performances came in Houston, which was right before the halfway mark. I do believe that Cary should receive more credit for the 3 games after, a stretch wherein he played very well. But his struggles don't seem to be behind him, with Williams allowing 7 receptions on 8 targets, 86 yards, 1 TD and a QB rating of 151.0 in San Diego. Apart from the Raiders game, I don't recall Cary being challenged by his teammates otherwise, though I could be mistaken. And while that can be a positive sign, it's not always the case. His 3 game streak was impressive, and it was a shame that it didn't continue into this week. But after an up and down 2011 campaign and a relatively rough start, he'll need a longer stretch of positive games to change opinions, especially since he still ranks within in the Bottom 10 in burn percentages and Bottom 4 in receiving yards and TDs allowed among CBs with over 60% of defensive snaps.
[/quote]

Those numbers aren't always a great indication of how a guy is playing good or bad. I could say that Cary is much better as a press corner, but Pees often has him in off man or zone. If the coverage is Zone and a pass is completed in front of you, that goes down as a completed catch on Williams. By the same token, non throws aren't documented by fans and stats sites. How many times did Rivers wanna throw the ball to the WR Cary was covering but had to look elsewhere? In the case of the TD, that was the perfect route against the defense the Ravens had. Is that really Cary's fault when you have Ed Reed come to the sideline and say a defensive adjustment should have been made? Again, i'm not saying Cary is a stud or perfect. But on the TD, he's supposed to have inside help, so he can afford to play outside leverage. Pollard reacted to the action of the RB and vacated the middle of the field with exposed Cary. Yes Cary gave up the TD, but the design of the play defeated the Ravens defense more then Cary just getting "torch".

Another example is on the same drive, a couple plays before. The Ravens are play off man coverage, which is designed to take away deep routes. The CBs are instructed to just come up and make the tackle on any completion short of 10 yards. Alexander catches a 9 yard stop route, Cary comes up stops him in his tracks and sets up a 3rd and 1. Technically Cary did his job as good as he could within the design of the defense. Actually the defense forced a 4th down the next play but the Chargers went for it instead of kicking the FGA. So Cary did his job, but by the stats and burn percentage, whatever that is, he didn't win on that play.

Another play was when the Chargers flexed Matthews out wide. Cary played about 7 yards off coverage, defense design, Matthews just turned around and Rivers threw him the ball, Cary comes up, makes the tackle 2 yard gain. Is that really a play Cary was "burnt" on?

On Upshaw's sack in the 2nd quarter, Rivers is looking deep to Cary's side of the field, no obviously the camera angle didn't allow us to see down field, so we don't know what was happening. However what was clear was that Rivers wanted to go deep but couldn't because his guy was covered. Does that factor into the burn percentage or Rivers QBR against Cary/ No because the ball wasn't thrown, but Cary clearly had a impact on that play because Rivers was forced to hold the ball and got sacked. Now what if Rivers was foolish enough to attempt the pass and Cary picked it?

All i'm saying is football is about more then just numbers, regardless of how much they try to turn it into a Fantasy League. What was so bad about his performance vs the Texans?

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[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1354124782' post='1237151']
Cary Williams has a lot of interceptions, his name is mentioned a lot and he plays for the Ravens. So if a person that doesn't know what the Ravens are up to is going through the positions and they see a Ravens cornerback that leads the AFC in interceptions they will vote. I'm all for it, I support my Ravens. I don't love the way they always play, but I support them regardless
[/quote]

Well said
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If Cary winds up making the Pro Bowl, that is awesome for him, especially since he is angling for a new deal and this is his "audition" year. I do hope he continues his improved play for the sake of our championship aspirations.

That said, this also goes to show you how messed up and ridiculous the voting is. Cary is leading the AFC in fan votes and last year Webb's incredible season didn't even get him named a 2nd alternate to it...the whole thing is a joke anymore.
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[quote name='terpsnation' timestamp='1354127132' post='1237183']
To be fair - our entire defense looked like crap against Houston.

It seems to me that Cary does well when our defense is doing well, and does terrible when our defense is doing terrible. He has looked a lot better lately, and I hope he continues to improve.

I think with the performances he gave in the first half of the season, now whenever his receiver catches a ball, everyone is very quick to say "Of course, Cary." That then sticks in everyone's minds, so it's easier to see the bad over the good. But then again, that goes for almost all corners. If they play lights out in a game, a QB is most likely going to be targeting any other WR than the person they are covering. Then you don't see them play at all, so you can't give them the credit they deserve. But if they misplay the receiver and get blown out, that single play will overwrite the 10 good plays that they've done before it.
[/quote]

Definitely. People get extremely riled up when Cary gives up an 8 yard reception, and they get pissed off whenever the offense fails to make great plays. Quite simply there are great players throughout the league, and no corner (aside from maybe Revis) is stopping anybody cold. Guys like Brees, Manning, Brady, Stafford are racking up touchdowns and burning corners left and right, but for some reason Ravens fans just really like to pick on 29. He's not the best CB in the AFC, but he has improved and he is serviceable.
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[quote name='HomeoftheBRAVENS' timestamp='1354129984' post='1237225']
Joe Haden hasnt even played for most of the year and Joseph hasnt played well.I didnt mean hes missed games.He got hurt during the texans @ jets game and hasnt been the same since(except for our game).Hes a big part of the reason why the texans have given up close to 80 points and a 1000 yards in the past 2 games.He got picked on in the packers game.Plus,I mentioned Bailey.
[/quote]

I will give you the point about Haden, and I didn't argue against Bailey. However, Joseph has still played better than Williams thus far. The point about him being a big reason behind their struggles doesn't make much sense, given that he missed the Lions game. And against Jacksonville, he allowed just 2 receptions on 4 targets, a mere 17 receiving yards and a QB rating of 61.5. Yes, he was picked up during the Packers game, but outside of that single contest, he's done well otherwise.
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I'm happy for him.

I just hope a vote into the pro bowl doesn't give him the idea that he deserves a huge contract.
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