Week 12 - Comments on Cam and the Offense

[Gashman]

Man...that face Flacco has is worth a thousand words....If Cam wasn't happy with the way Joe orchestrated that TD druve,.then we have bigger problems than I thought....its like water and vinegar....somethings git to.give!

If Harbaugh doesn't see that passing routes across the middle improved the Offensive production, and Cam goes back to same old crappy out patterns,.I will turn on Harbs. He better get his OC on the ball with todays Offense. If you read my game day comments, along with others, I am not alone.

[Bravens292]

both cam and norv can enjoy their misery together after the seasons over. chargers fans are just as glad to get rid of him than us with cam. i'm tired of the hire norv comments. i'm sick of the air coryell and it just won't work with us.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1353972247' post='1235191']
I dont know about that . When san diego played us last year [b]there offense bascially dominated the ravens defense. [/b]If the ravens defense last year wasn't a real defense then i dont know what a real defense is . I dont think the Air Corydell philosphy is unreliable but it does require alot more than other offensive schemes. Take note that the chargers offensive line was missing out on their best tackle Jared Gaither and i think their best guard retired before training camp started.

Alot of offensive coordinators use the air corydell philosophy but either used it with other philosophies or used it in a different way.
[/quote]

That's because Norv actually understands what you can and can't do with it - notice how almost all of his receivers are giants? This allows him to get away with predictable playcalling because most corners in this league simply can't cover a Vincent Jackson or a Malcolm Floyd, those guys will just outreach any corner playing man coverage on them - that's what we tried to do last year with Webb and Jimmy, but their line for some reason neutralized our pass rush, and without harassing Rivers his receivers had all day to get open. And Norv almost never deviates from the run. But even Norv has limitations - you've seen the mess they are right now. Air Coryell is simply not an adaptable system. You point out their bad offensive line - well a lot of other teams lose o-lineman i.e. the Packers, the Giants last year, etc., and their offenses are fine. That's the other problem with the Air Coryell, and using it exclusively - everything HAS to be working, o-line, running game, receivers have to consistently beat man coverage, and everything has to work at once, otherwise it fails.

[wayne]

I know Cam has to put in more routes with Torrey Smith than just the 9 route and the comeback route which teams are starting to have someone going underneath Torrey for the comeback and the CB will stay far off of Torrey for the deep ball. Have another route by another WR going into that area to make them pay for shooting someone underneath Torrey like that.

[1/28/01]

Torrey on a drag route is pure sexiness! Needs to be done 3-5 times a game.

[ravensdfan]

We've learned all these plays/routes we've been screaming for already exist. Cam just refuses to use them for whatever reason. The only time we see them is when Joe has control. Cam is worse than we thought.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1353983399' post='1235384']
That's the other problem with the Air Coryell, and using it exclusively - everything HAS to be working, o-line, running game, receivers have to consistently beat man coverage, and everything has to work at once, otherwise it fails.
[/quote]
That's the way i feel. It seems that if one thing fails the entire offense is gone to crap.

[jdynamite]

I'm hoping that Cam Cameron watches this game field over and over and realizes that the 6 or 7 times we actually had routes that included a drag, crossing pattern, or slant that it worked and gained decent YAC. Like in the first QTR Boldin had a nice slant pass for first down (17 yds) then it disappeared, until Torrey ran a crossing route which he caught and turned into a 50 yd gain, then in the 4th qtr that same play was called again for another completion. Jacoby caught an inside slant also.

I just hope he realizes mixing things up like that will lead to teams having to cover more field and opening up other areas because of the unpredictable nature of it. Rather than how most times its obvious everyone is running 7-10 yard curls or streaks w/ Rice as a bell out option and the defense just arm bars every WR and sit on the route.

[jdynamite]

Watching the game, it seemed like the middle of the field was open most of the day, I felt like Boldin or Pitta could have easily had 6-7 catches in the middle.

If the middle of the field can be worked early with Boldin/ pitta / Dickson ( seams, drags, crossing route, slants, digs ) or even with Torrey or Jacoby it could force safety to stay honest in the middle limit some of the doubles over the top on Torrey. Or cause the defense to play up more leaving them vulnerable for a double move or the Fake smoke screen and go, play action pass with deep post.

[Gashman]

CAM!!! YOU HARD HEAD! Give the people what they want!!!! What is the problem???

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1354023157' post='1235609']
Watching the game, it seemed like the middle of the field was open most of the day, I felt like Boldin or Pitta could have easily had 6-7 catches in the middle.

If the middle of the field can be worked early with Boldin/ pitta / Dickson ( seams, drags, crossing route, slants, digs ) or even with Torrey or Jacoby it could force safety to stay honest in the middle limit some of the doubles over the top on Torrey. Or cause the defense to play up more leaving them vulnerable for a double move or the Fake smoke screen and go, play action pass with deep post.
[/quote]thats too much common sense, use the run and the middle of the field to set up the deep ball...

[DocMartin]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353896151' post='1234028']

[img]http://i.qkme.me/3rwgyi.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
I said it before and I say it again, MOVE CAM CAMERON UPSTAIRS for crying out loud ! Put him in the room, lock the door and loose the key! And tell Flacco when he takes the field, to tap on his helmet and signal to Cam:" Hey, I can't hear you, Can you hear me now? Uhm, not really".

[jdynamite]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1354023781' post='1235618']
thats too much common sense, use the run and the middle of the field to set up the deep ball...
[/quote]

Lol! I figured I'd give simple example, since some people have become defensive for Cam with the old cam isn't the one can't get open.

[DocMartin]

We have seen Cam's Nightmare re-appeared in San Diego
3rd DOWN AND 2
Oh NO, not again !
I'm not sure about our 3rd down and short conversion stats, but let's just say we have done better on
4th down and 29.

[sgkoteen]

[color=#282828][size=4]
I trust Cam's judgement because he has earned it; our fourth quarters have been miraculous time and time again....

HOWEVER, we cannot continue to wait until our opponents have a lead, their defenses falls back into conservative coverage and allow Cam's slow developing plays march us down the field at the last possible second. The best teams, ie in the playoffs, will continue to aggressively go after Flacco and not allow Cam's slow developing plays develop.

ALSO, when we do on a rare occasion have third and short (usually Cam's unmethodical, inconsistent, drive killing, high risk, high reward, slow developing plays keeps us at third and long), STOP RUNNING OFF TACKLE, MAN UP AND GUT IT DOWN THE MIDDLE ON THIRD AND INCHES.

> Its math, if you do not run in a straight line and run outside its no longer third and inches, its third and yards. <

Ps Cam, Perhaps put in our franchise running back, Ray Rice, on 4th and inches, and the game on the line. (I don't care if there were 9 in the box. If you are going to run it anyway, and yes Flacco did check out of the original run play to the left and decided to STILL run it to the right, you might as well run the shortest distance in a trenches battle for the first down.) [/size][/color][list]
[*][color=#6E6E6E][size=2][b][background=rgb(222, 222, 222)]0[/background][/b][/size][/color]
[/list][list]
[*][url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=6&t=49680&qpid=1235685"]Quote[/url]
[*][url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=reply_post&f=6&t=49680&qpid=1235685"]MultiQuote[/url]
[*][url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/index.php?app=forums&module=moderate&section=moderate&do=postchoice&tact=deletedo&f=6&t=49680&selectedpids[]=1235685&st=40&auth_key=2d1a40595c15f767ea14237ff84050c8"]Delete[/url]
[*][url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/index.php?app=forums&module=post&section=post&do=edit_post&f=6&t=49680&p=1235685&st=40"]Edit[/url]
[/list]

[CorvusCorax]

The 3 and outs will continue until Cam improves...

[sgkoteen]

[quote[b] name='DocMartin' timestamp='1354031691' post='1235692']
We have seen Cam's Nightmare re-appeared in San Diego
3rd DOWN AND 2
Oh NO, not again !
I'm not sure about our 3rd down and short conversion stats, but let's just say we have done better on
4th down and 29.[/b]

[b][b][size=4]Pass interference is the worst penalty in football.

If you poke somebody's eyeball out, you get a a 15-yard penalty.

If you make "contact" with the receiver, it could be 60 yards

([color=#4B0082]70 yards if you have QB Joe Flacco[/color]) and an automatic 1st down.

Makes a lot of sense.

Welcome to the new NFL.[/size][/b][/b]
[b][/b][/quote]

[b]Same off tackle playcalling problem in short yardage situations. Got to run it up the gut. It's math, If you run to the side instead of straight ahead, its a further distance from point a to b.[/b]


[b]Recently, Roger Goodell mandated refs to call more pass interference.[/b]

[b]Stricter pass interference calls causes more passes caught.[/b]
[b]More passes caught causes more points scored.[/b]
[b]More points scored bring more TV viewers.[/b]
[b]More TV viewers result in more ads.[/b]
[b]More ads accumulate more money.[/b]
[b]More money brings more power for NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More power for NFL owners results in more abuse of NFLPA by NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More abuse on NFLPA by NFL owners causes more absurd rule changes.[/b]
[b]More absurd rule changes take physicality out of the game.[/b]
[b]Taking physicality out of the game removes tight coverage and punishing D.[/b]
[b]Removing tight coverage and punishing D causes more points scored.[/b]
[b]More points scored bring more TV viewers.[/b]
[b]More TV viewers result in more ads.[/b]
[b]More ads accumulate more money.[/b]
[b]More money brings more power for NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More power for NFL owners results in more abuse of NFLPA by NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More abuse on NFLPA by NFL owners causes more absurd rule changes.[/b]
[b]More absurd rule changes take physicality out of the game.[/b]
[b]Taking physicality out of the game removes tight coverage and punishing D.[/b]
[b]Removing tight coverage and punishing D causes more points scored.[/b]
[b]More points scored bring more TV viewers.[/b]
[b]More TV viewers result in more ads.[/b]
[b]More ads accumulate more money.[/b]
[b]More money brings more power for NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More power for NFL owners results in more abuse of NFLPA by NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More abuse on NFLPA by NFL owners causes more absurd rule changes.[/b]
[b]More absurd rule changes take physicality out of the game.[/b]
[b]Taking physicality out of the game removes tight coverage and punishing D.[/b]
[b]Removing tight coverage and punishing D causes more points scored.[/b]
[b]More points scored bring more TV viewers.[/b]
[b]More TV viewers result in more ads.[/b]
[b]More ads accumulate more money.[/b]
[b]More money brings more power for NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More power for NFL owners results in more abuse of NFLPA by NFL owners.[/b]
[b]More abuse on NFLPA by NFL owners causes more absurd rule changes.[/b]
[b]More absurd rule changes take physicality out of the game.[/b]
[b]Taking physicality out of the game removes tight coverage and punishing D.[/b]
[b]Removing tight coverage and punishing D distorts the game of football.[/b]
[b]Distorting the game of football hurts the NFL.[/b]

[b]Roger Goodell, please stop calling pass interference extra strict.[/b]
[b]You’re ruining the game.[/b]

[ravensdfan]

So my computer was having video issues for a bit and I did not get to see the Behind the Bench segments (I love those, they are full of information). Anyway, in the one for the Chargers game, 2nd half, there is Boldin on the bench, telling Cam about the middle of the field, and saying the routes they are running are no good. Cam is just standing there with this blank look on his face, saying nothing. Then he just sort of says "uh huh". That's it. It says everything there is to know about Cam.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1354083028' post='1236886']
So my computer was having video issues for a bit and I did not get to see the Behind the Bench segments (I love those, they are full of information). Anyway, in the one for the Chargers game, 2nd half, there is Boldin on the bench, telling Cam about the middle of the field, and saying the routes they are running are no good. Cam is just standing there with this blank look on his face, saying nothing. Then he just sort of says "uh huh". That's it. It says everything there is to know about Cam.
[/quote]
Stubborn as hell.... Yep, now he should be gone.

[DocMartin]

Look, regardless of how bad Cam gets with his playcalling, I'm not fan of changing coordinators in the course of the WINNING SEASON. It would be extremely UNWISE, so I dont see that happening any time soon.
But I believe some change is needed. If you remmember few years back, when Peyton Manning was playing for Colts, he had his Offensive Coordinator calling plays from the box upstairs and it WORKED GREAT. Why can't we do that and put Cam in the box upstairs, I do not know, someone please explain.
And we have Jim Caldwell who could be on the sideline attending to Flacco if needed. I think it would help Cam's playcalling to see the field from up there and make quick game time adjustments. It also gives Flacco ability to call audibles at the line of scrimmage. And I also believe there is a lack of communication in the games on the road, with the noise levels on the field.
So I don't think there is any reason we shouldn't at least try it. Or let me just say, it couldn't get any worse than it already is.

[RavensFanInCA]

I love watching Behind the Bench. At 5:20 http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Behind_The_Bench_First_Half_Highlights_vs_SD/3a8047e3-8960-4f2b-a67c-325a5a800176 you can see Q talking with Cam about what the Chargers D was doing and what he wanted to get past it. Q mentions that the Chargers are sitting on the middle (unless I'm misinterpreting what he said). As much as all of us want to show of what we know about the game, it's great to hear what the players are seeing in the game. It's not that Cam doesn't listen (then again, I don't know what mason pump is), but I'm wondering if moving up to the box like Pees would help.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1354150119' post='1237604']
I love watching Behind the Bench. At 5:20 http://www.baltimoreravens.com/videos/videos/Behind_The_Bench_First_Half_Highlights_vs_SD/3a8047e3-8960-4f2b-a67c-325a5a800176 you can see Q talking with Cam about what the Chargers D was doing and what he wanted to get past it. Q mentions that the Chargers are sitting on the middle (unless I'm misinterpreting what he said). As much as all of us want to show of what we know about the game, it's great to hear what the players are seeing in the game. It's not that Cam doesn't listen (then again, I don't know what mason pump is), but I'm wondering if moving up to the box like Pees would help.
[/quote]sotting on the outs is what he said. Start to head upfield and cut towards the sideline, they were sitting on the, routes because they new what was happening.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1353970822' post='1235160']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4kmqp.jpg[/img]

[/quote]

Joe's looks like how i feel when i watch Cam's b.s. play calling.

~Mili

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1354185091' post='1237796']
Joe's looks like how i feel when i watch Cam's b.s. play calling.

~Mili
[/quote]

I just can't stress it enough, that this happened AFTER Joe started shredding the Chargers D. I never complained a ton about Cam and using the no-huddle is probably the one thing, that did give us our winning record this season and Cameron is part of that, but what really angers me is Pees and how he handled the tough situation he was in. How much he tried and how creative he got, how we can see improvement with every game. I was complaining so much about Dean Pees (probably more than I ever did about Cam) and as for now I literally have nothing to complain about anymore (not that our D is great again, but we are clearly trending up). He put in the work. Cam just looks drained and tired. I am not sure, if he is as hungry as guys like Dean are.