Week 12 - Comments on Cam and the Offense

[good_n_purple]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1353895078' post='1233971']
let me just get this out of my system first. that 1st half and 3rd qrtr....the Ravens offense stunk up the joint! pure hot garbage. it was pathetic! ok, i'm done with that! lol! now...late in the 4th qrtr...around the 4:00 mark or so left in the game to play....Joe's passes were quick, crisp, short and on point! the offense was in the no huddle the majority of that time and it put up the TD. it was soooo obvious at that moment (as we've all said again and again) that Cam Cameron is holding Joe Flacco back. he is literally crippling Joe from being in or reaching that "elite" conversation or status. Cam waited until the game was on the line before he finally decided to turn Joe and the offense loose. when he did....they scored! sure, Cam didn't drop passes, or get stopped on 4th&inches or fail to block for Joe...but his offensive "mindset" and "philosophy" is crippling this offense. it's a shame!

~Mili
[/quote]
You just can't play "Air-Freakin'-Coryell" constantly! The middle is where its at! Torrey showed some sweet moves after the short catches over the middle. This every first down means throw a bomb crap has to go.

[rlh445]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353891937' post='1233720']
The million dollar question.

Who was calling the plays in the fourth quarter when we went no huddle and utilised the middle of the field, slants, screens etc, and the offence finally worked?
[/quote]

Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353898274' post='1234119']
Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.
[/quote]

Well technically if when we went to the no huddle late it was Joe reading the defense and calling the plays, then no, Cam largely had nothing to do with the offensive playcalling late in the game.

[rlh445]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1353899154' post='1234149']
Well technically if when we went to the no huddle late it was Joe reading the defense and calling the plays, then no, Cam largely had nothing to do with the offensive playcalling late in the game.
[/quote]

Who gave Joe the plays to run? Cam . Also, he wasn't running the no huddle at the end.

[Bravens292]

it was joes offense late in the 4th because we ran no huddle. Cam didn't call those plays and look what happened.... we scored points. does the FO need any more evidence we are bad because of cam. the bad part of us winning all these games is it strengthens his cause for returning. its a double edged sword. i want this team to win but the more we win, the greater chance of him staying. best case scenario we keep winning and he still gets fired. the only reason he stayed this year was the lockout. well, he had one more chance and he isn't getting it done again. i would have a grudge against Oz/Steve if they don't get rid of him this year. it is a lingering issue with this offense. we shouldn't have to wait til the 4th quarter for the offense to wake up. collectively, i've probably written about 5 pages of cam stuff but i just can't get over this frustration.

[NaveSenrag]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1353895850' post='1234011']
That personal foul call was ridiculous . He led with his shoulder not his head .

And the Anquan personal foul was bogus too.

We were getting some bad calls
[/quote]
He shoved a player to the ground on a dead play that neither he nor the player he shoved were involved in. I love Boldin, but that was a good call.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353899217' post='1234150']
Who gave Joe the plays to run? Cam . Also, he wasn't running the no huddle at the end.
[/quote]

In the no huddle, the quarterback calls the plays. He's not "given" anything, he reads the D and decides what to call based on what he sees. There is no involvement of the OC, or at least there shouldn't be in the proper no-huddle.

[Sizzlebshu]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353896151' post='1234028']
From Blood Raven.... Again
[img]http://i.qkme.me/3rwgyi.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Maybe we will get lucky and a desperate team will hire him to be their head coach and he will accept.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353898274' post='1234119']


Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.
[/quote]You see. Normally an oc has nothing to do with no huddles. And the fact the routes and plays were from another planet for the offense kinda leads one to believe that it was Joe calling them.

[flaccopoe]

Glad BAL's road offense is improving! This would be one of the main things holding us back from a Super Bowl win in New Orleans. Especially since HOU has all but clinched the #1 seed.

[The Raven]

We ran the no-huddle pretty well yesterday, and on the road, no less. The offense is starting to gel!

[T3hRaven]

Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).

[The Raven]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).
[/quote]

90 total yards in first half. Finished the game with over 400 yards. Hmm

[mdrsharon]

I was in SD at the game.
The play calling was bad. So predictable.
When you are there, you can see all the missed opportunities, which you can't always see on tv.

There will be many lame head coaches, who would make great OC's available after this season.
Let's get one.

[admartian]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353940862' post='1234589']
We ran the no-huddle pretty well yesterday, and on the road, no less. The offense is starting to gel!
[/quote]It helps when the home team fans haven't shown up to make noise - lots of empty seats.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. [b]If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).[/b]
[/quote]

Whether or not the offense is gelling ON THE ROAD remains to be seen, but in the 2nd half of yesterday plus overtime, we moved it really well. Besides, there was still work to be done after the 4th and 29, wasn't there?

Nothing delusional about those observations.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
[b]Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? [/b]We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).
[/quote]

absolutely not! of course our offense stunk up the joint in the 1st half...on the road....again! however, imo, once Cam FINALLY turned Flacco loose (w/4 mins or so left in the game) to avoid losing the game...THAT'S when things got going offensively. Flacco's release was quick, short and on point! and yes....we got a incredible lucky run by Ray Rice on 4th&29 but remember, this is a game of inches and let's not forget...after an inept offensive performance for nearly 3 qrtrs....we did WIN the game!

~Mili

[CalvinSmoke]

I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.

It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.

[PolishRifle]

[img]http://i.imgur.com/4kmqp.jpg[/img]

Flacco after his TD drive is trying to explain plays to Cameron. Depressing stuff.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1353968278' post='1235116']
I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.

It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.
[/quote]
I personally want us to move in a WCO of the Bill Walsh variety. Something similar to what NE runs. I think it fits our personnel better, mainly our offensive line. I saw us yesterday doing a lot of quick passes and it worked well. I think that fits us better than what Cam's running.

But more than anything, Cam is an old piece of bread and it's stale. I want a new flavor.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1353970866' post='1235162']
I personally want us to move in a WCO of the Bill Walsh variety. Something similar to what NE runs. I think it fits our personnel better, mainly our offensive line. I saw us yesterday doing a lot of quick passes and it worked well. I think that fits us better than what Cam's running.

But more than anything, Cam is an old piece of bread and it's stale. I want a new flavor.
[/quote]well, since John Harbaugh is technically apart of Bill Walsh's coaching tree, it would make since to make that transition one day.
[img]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/calvinsmoke/791px-Bill_Walsh_Coaching_Tree_svg.png[/img]

[jazz1988]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1353968278' post='1235116']
I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. [b]I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.[/b]

[b]It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on[/b]. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.
[/quote]

I dont know about that . When san diego played us last year there offense bascially dominated the ravens defense. If the ravens defense last year wasn't a real defense then i dont know what a real defense is . I dont think the Air Corydell philosphy is unreliable but it does require alot more than other offensive schemes. Take note that the chargers offensive line was missing out on their best tackle Jared Gaither and i think their best guard retired before training camp started.

Alot of offensive coordinators use the air corydell philosophy but either used it with other philosophies or used it in a different way.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1353965207' post='1235068']
Whether or not the offense is gelling ON THE ROAD remains to be seen, but in the 2nd half of yesterday plus overtime, [b]we moved it really well.[/b] Besides, there was still work to be done after the 4th and 29, wasn't there?

Nothing delusional about those observations.
[/quote]

Most people around here claim we should be judging the defense by points scored and not how easily teams move the ball on them. The offense should be graded by the same standard.

[wayne]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1353899439' post='1234155']
[b]it was joes offense late in the 4th because we ran no huddle. Cam didn't call those plays and look what happened.... we scored points.[/b] does the FO need any more evidence we are bad because of cam. the bad part of us winning all these games is it strengthens his cause for returning. its a double edged sword. i want this team to win but the more we win, the greater chance of him staying. best case scenario we keep winning and he still gets fired. the only reason he stayed this year was the lockout. well, he had one more chance and he isn't getting it done again. i would have a grudge against Oz/Steve if they don't get rid of him this year. it is a lingering issue with this offense. we shouldn't have to wait til the 4th quarter for the offense to wake up. collectively, i've probably written about 5 pages of cam stuff but i just can't get over this frustration.
[/quote]

No one knows this for sure so this is a big assumption . People that say this, do you remember the Texans game and the Eagles game? Do you remember the Jags, Seahawks game from last season? We passed like 60-70% in those games and looked what happen ( abandoned the run game ). I'm not ready to crown Flacco as a QB that should have almost total freedom and control to call his own plays and audible at will yet b/c while the offense sputtering like it does has a lot to do with Cam, has a lot to do with Flacco too.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1353970822' post='1235160']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4kmqp.jpg[/img]

Flacco after his TD drive is trying to explain plays to Cameron. Depressing stuff.
[/quote]
Hahah, that picture is hilarious. I know it's cropped and what not but Flacco does have some absolutely atrocious robot facial expressions lol.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1353972247' post='1235191']
I dont know about that . When san diego played us last year there offense bascially dominated the ravens defense. If the ravens defense last year wasn't a real defense then i dont know what a real defense is . I dont think the Air Corydell philosphy is unreliable but it does require alot more than other offensive schemes. Take note that the chargers offensive line was missing out on their best tackle Jared Gaither and i think their best guard retired before training camp started.

Alot of offensive coordinators use the air corydell philosophy but either used it with other philosophies or used it in a different way.
[/quote]I hear you, mabye I'm still just a little emotional. But when we played them last year it was very similiar to the situation we had going into Houston this year. We were freshly banged up last year going into SD losing Webb, same story as going into Houston

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1353973284' post='1235208']
Hahah, that picture is hilarious. I know it's cropped and what not but Flacco does have some absolutely atrocious robot facial expressions lol.
[/quote]

He looks actually quite angry to me. And that is after he scored a TD mind you. This kind of stuff really gives all those "no-huddle means no-Cameron"-theories atleast some credence. Serioucly, we had the same OC for 5 seasons without noticeable improvements on offense. I know, that it isn't necessarily just Cam, but can we atleast try a new OC? It certainly is easier than finding a new QB.

[The Raven]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1353970822' post='1235160']
[img]http://i.imgur.com/4kmqp.jpg[/img]

Flacco after his TD drive is trying to explain plays to Cameron. Depressing stuff.
[/quote]

Flacco looks pissed...

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353975566' post='1235258']
Flacco looks pissed...
[/quote]
Cam is gone after this game. My friend thinks that Cam is not the problem and Joe isnt trusted by Harbs..... I want Cam out when Norv is gone

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353972944' post='1235200']
Most people around here claim we should be judging the defense by points scored and not how easily teams move the ball on them. The offense should be graded by the same standard.
[/quote]

I don't necessarily think that way. If you're driving the length of the field, you can't get points without getting yards first. People were looking for improved general play on the road from the offense. I think to an extent, we got that yesterday.

Points are obviously more important than yards, but the number 1 thing that offenses do is move the ball. Besides, we would've gotten points on that fourth down had we not gone for it and missed.

Points are more important, but much more misleading in my opinion. Defense and ST plays can set an offense up, and even score for them.

I would judge them on both, not one or the other.