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Week 12 - Comments on Cam and the Offense

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I think our problem is on the road we try to run too much because that's the "kind of game we want to play". We leave ourselves open to too many 3rd and longs. Clearly the second half was much more productive, and it was because we were finally throwing on 1st down, and putting more receivers on the field. The offense works best when Joe has control.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353891606' post='1233683']
My grades for the game
First Three Quarters F-
Foruth Quarter and OT A
[/quote]
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The million dollar question.

Who was calling the plays in the fourth quarter when we went no huddle and utilised the middle of the field, slants, screens etc, and the offence finally worked?
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353891937' post='1233720']
The million dollar question.

Who was calling the plays in the fourth quarter when we went no huddle and utilised the middle of the field, slants, screens etc, and the offence finally worked?
[/quote]

I don't know but it worked! My guess is Cam puts the basic groundwork out there, personnel etc, and Joe works with it.
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[quote name='Chris J. Faria' timestamp='1353892091' post='1233731']
Whatever it was, Mr. Cam Cameron, you exceeded everyone's expectations during the fourth quarter and overtime letting the offense do their job. Thus, sir, you're save... for at least [i]another [/i]week...
[/quote]was it him though? We were predominately no huddle. Joes running that
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The issue with the offense today, and in pretty much all of the away games so far this season, is that it's all around poor play as well. Cam obviously has serious flaws, namely not using the middle of the field but it's more than just him.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353891937' post='1233720']
The million dollar question.

Who was calling the plays in the fourth quarter when we went no huddle and utilised the middle of the field, slants, screens etc, and the offence finally worked?
[/quote]
The answer is
What is a Joe Flacco Controlled Offense?????
[i]Jepordy Music Plays in the backround[/i]
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Imagine that, it takes almost the whole game to actually start doing some different things on offense, and they work. This was an away game in a tough place, no doubt, but still, lack of variety on offense will be the death of us in the end.
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Cam is bad and still doesn't know how to use our players.

Has he ever heard of a slant?
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Game was frustrating as all get out. Screaming at the tv "CATCH THE BALL". But the team got it together when it counted. 4th and 29 will be easily the play of the season barring any heroics in the playoffs.
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As of right now, I am dead sick of the shot gun draws. Other plays that I see too often were the sideline routes to Smith. And I don't mean the deep back shoulder in OT, I mean the short ones. Last week, Ryan Clark jumped a few of those, and Flacco had to throw it away. The same thing happened this week. Put those two plays away, at least for the time being.

As for the running game, RAMON HAREWOOD did better than both Williams and Reid. Why did we bench him?
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[quote name='JoeCool#5' timestamp='1353893023' post='1233817']
Game was frustrating as all get out. Screaming at the tv "CATCH THE BALL". But the team got it together when it counted. 4th and 29 will be easily the play of the season barring any heroics in the playoffs.
[/quote]

I'm getting the feeling that this crazy 4th and 29 Rice run propels us to
a higher level on both sides of the ball.

Just a gut feeling .
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Bernard Pollard says champions find a way to win. So there you have it, the 2012 Ravens.

Winning ugly with little or no Offense, but still winning.
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Lets just hope he's not suspended next week!

Hes gotta be a "repeat offender" and big Rog could come a callin'.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353891606' post='1233683']
My grades for the game
First Three Quarters F-
Foruth Quarter and OT A
[/quote]

So essentially, the offense was good when we were running up tempo no huddle and his involvement was minimal.
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I think our main problem is that we arent able to establish either the pass or the run right away.. if we open up one it will help the other. it just seems that when we try to establish the run, it doesnt work, so we try to establish the pass, and that doesnt work. then we are just in a big hole because our offense cant get into rythm
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353894705' post='1233955']
So essentially, the offense was good when we were running up tempo no huddle and his involvement was minimal.
[/quote]
Yep!
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let me just get this out of my system first. that 1st half and 3rd qrtr....the Ravens offense stunk up the joint! pure hot garbage. it was pathetic! ok, i'm done with that! lol! now...late in the 4th qrtr...around the 4:00 mark or so left in the game to play....Joe's passes were quick, crisp, short and on point! the offense was in the no huddle the majority of that time and it put up the TD. it was soooo obvious at that moment (as we've all said again and again) that Cam Cameron is holding Joe Flacco back. he is literally crippling Joe from being in or reaching that "elite" conversation or status. Cam waited until the game was on the line before he finally decided to turn Joe and the offense loose. when he did....they scored! sure, Cam didn't drop passes, or get stopped on 4th&inches or fail to block for Joe...but his offensive "mindset" and "philosophy" is crippling this offense. it's a shame!

~Mili
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353892201' post='1233746']
was it him though? We were predominately no huddle. Joes running that
[/quote]
I think it was a combination. Cam's not incompetent, he's just an average OC with above average o talent and a really good running back.
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[quote name='tsizzle95' timestamp='1353894782' post='1233959']
I think our main problem is that we arent able to establish either the pass or the run right away.. if we open up one it will help the other. it just seems that when we try to establish the run, it doesnt work, so we try to establish the pass, and that doesnt work. then we are just in a big hole because our offense cant get into rythm
[/quote]

It all comes down to playcalling. At one point in this game we ran Rice 3 times in a row. 3 TIMES. Guess the outcome. As soon as our offense came alive, which was just when our backs were against the wall and for once Cam had to put some trust into Joe, we were converting 3rd and longs with ease. All season long we couldn't convert 3rd downs to save our lives, but as soon as we started running more no-huddle we were moving the ball easily.

As soon as Norv Turner becomes available, the Ravens better get him, because there is no way we can afford wasting away our offensive talent for one more season with Joes big contract on the horizont.
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3&10, calling for a long pass to Torrey was a VERY ballsy call.
Big kudos to who ever called that one.

That was the [i]OTHER[/i] game winner in my opinion.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1353895078' post='1233971']
let me just get this out of my system first. that 1st half and 3rd qrtr....the Ravens offense stunk up the joint! pure hot garbage. it was pathetic! ok, i'm done with that! lol! now...late in the 4th qrtr...around the 4:00 mark or so left in the game to play....Joe's passes were quick, crisp, short and on point! the offense was in the no huddle the majority of that time and it put up the TD. it was soooo obvious at that moment (as we've all said again and again) that Cam Cameron is holding Joe Flacco back. he is literally crippling Joe from being in or reaching that "elite" conversation or status. Cam waited until the game was on the line before he finally decided to turn Joe and the offense loose. when he did....they scored! sure, Cam didn't drop passes, or get stopped on 4th&inches or fail to block for Joe...but [b]his offensive "mindset" and "philosophy" is crippling this offense.[/b] it's a shame!

~Mili
[/quote]
dagger to the cancerous target......I hope we somehow eliminate it for good.......
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[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1353893845' post='1233900']
Lets just hope he's not suspended next week!

Hes gotta be a "repeat offender" and big Rog could come a callin'.
[/quote]

That personal foul call was ridiculous . He led with his shoulder not his head .

And the Anquan personal foul was bogus too.

We were getting some bad calls
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1353895078' post='1233971']
let me just get this out of my system first. that 1st half and 3rd qrtr....the Ravens offense stunk up the joint! pure hot garbage. it was pathetic! ok, i'm done with that! lol! now...late in the 4th qrtr...around the 4:00 mark or so left in the game to play....Joe's passes were quick, crisp, short and on point! the offense was in the no huddle the majority of that time and it put up the TD. it was soooo obvious at that moment (as we've all said again and again) that Cam Cameron is holding Joe Flacco back. he is literally crippling Joe from being in or reaching that "elite" conversation or status. Cam waited until the game was on the line before he finally decided to turn Joe and the offense loose. when he did....they scored! sure, Cam didn't drop passes, or get stopped on 4th&inches or fail to block for Joe...but his offensive "mindset" and "philosophy" is crippling this offense. it's a shame!

~Mili
[/quote]

Thank god Rice picked cam up on his shoulders and saved the day. A short pass on 4th and 29? That reeks of rolling over and crying uncle. No way cam envisions the play panning out as it did.
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[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1353895210' post='1233977']
I think it was a combination. Cam's not incompetent, he's just an average OC with above average o talent and a really good running back.
[/quote]

I don't even think it's that. I personally think Cam is a good offensive coordinator for a young quarterback because he is so conservative and early in their career will stick to the run game and make it easy on them. The problem is when you have a mature quarterback and an offense full of weapons like we have, you can still be held back by the fact that you need diversity in the play-calling to fully exploit the talents of your players, and the one thing we don't have is diversity within games - yes one game we will pass too much and the other we will run too much, but it's hardly ever balanced and even when it is it's always the same types of runs and pass plays, and most NFL defensive coordinators will eat that alive.
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1353895078' post='1233971']
let me just get this out of my system first. that 1st half and 3rd qrtr....the Ravens offense stunk up the joint! pure hot garbage. it was pathetic! ok, i'm done with that! lol! now...late in the 4th qrtr...around the 4:00 mark or so left in the game to play....Joe's passes were quick, crisp, short and on point! the offense was in the no huddle the majority of that time and it put up the TD. it was soooo obvious at that moment (as we've all said again and again) that Cam Cameron is holding Joe Flacco back. he is literally crippling Joe from being in or reaching that "elite" conversation or status. Cam waited until the game was on the line before he finally decided to turn Joe and the offense loose. when he did....they scored! sure, Cam didn't drop passes, or get stopped on 4th&inches or fail to block for Joe...but his offensive "mindset" and "philosophy" is crippling this offense. it's a shame!

~Mili
[/quote]
You just can't play "Air-Freakin'-Coryell" constantly! The middle is where its at! Torrey showed some sweet moves after the short catches over the middle. This every first down means throw a bomb crap has to go.
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[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353891937' post='1233720']
The million dollar question.

Who was calling the plays in the fourth quarter when we went no huddle and utilised the middle of the field, slants, screens etc, and the offence finally worked?
[/quote]

Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.
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[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353898274' post='1234119']
Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.
[/quote]

Well technically if when we went to the no huddle late it was Joe reading the defense and calling the plays, then no, Cam largely had nothing to do with the offensive playcalling late in the game.
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1353899154' post='1234149']
Well technically if when we went to the no huddle late it was Joe reading the defense and calling the plays, then no, Cam largely had nothing to do with the offensive playcalling late in the game.
[/quote]

Who gave Joe the plays to run? Cam :). Also, he wasn't running the no huddle at the end.
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it was joes offense late in the 4th because we ran no huddle. Cam didn't call those plays and look what happened.... we scored points. does the FO need any more evidence we are bad because of cam. the bad part of us winning all these games is it strengthens his cause for returning. its a double edged sword. i want this team to win but the more we win, the greater chance of him staying. best case scenario we keep winning and he still gets fired. the only reason he stayed this year was the lockout. well, he had one more chance and he isn't getting it done again. i would have a grudge against Oz/Steve if they don't get rid of him this year. it is a lingering issue with this offense. we shouldn't have to wait til the 4th quarter for the offense to wake up. collectively, i've probably written about 5 pages of cam stuff but i just can't get over this frustration.
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[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1353895850' post='1234011']
That personal foul call was ridiculous . He led with his shoulder not his head .

And the Anquan personal foul was bogus too.

We were getting some bad calls
[/quote]
He shoved a player to the ground on a dead play that neither he nor the player he shoved were involved in. I love Boldin, but that was a good call.
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[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353899217' post='1234150']
Who gave Joe the plays to run? Cam :). Also, he wasn't running the no huddle at the end.
[/quote]

In the no huddle, the quarterback calls the plays. He's not "given" anything, he reads the D and decides what to call based on what he sees. There is no involvement of the OC, or at least there shouldn't be in the proper no-huddle.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353896151' post='1234028']
From Blood Raven.... Again
[img]http://i.qkme.me/3rwgyi.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

Maybe we will get lucky and a desperate team will hire him to be their head coach and he will accept.
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[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353898274' post='1234119']


Now, now. This is what I was talking about in the game thread. How come when bad things happen there is 'no question' it was Cam, but when good things happen it's all of a sudden a question of who is calling the plays? Come on, guys give credit where it's due. Cam had as much to do with this comeback as anybody else.
[/quote]You see. Normally an oc has nothing to do with no huddles. And the fact the routes and plays were from another planet for the offense kinda leads one to believe that it was Joe calling them.
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Glad BAL's road offense is improving! This would be one of the main things holding us back from a Super Bowl win in New Orleans. Especially since HOU has all but clinched the #1 seed.
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We ran the no-huddle pretty well yesterday, and on the road, no less. The offense is starting to gel!
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Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).
[/quote]

90 total yards in first half. Finished the game with over 400 yards. Hmm
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I was in SD at the game.
The play calling was bad. So predictable.
When you are there, you can see all the missed opportunities, which you can't always see on tv.

There will be many lame head coaches, who would make great OC's available after this season.
Let's get one.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353940862' post='1234589']
We ran the no-huddle pretty well yesterday, and on the road, no less. The offense is starting to gel!
[/quote]It helps when the home team fans haven't shown up to make noise - lots of empty seats. ;)
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. [b]If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).[/b]
[/quote]

Whether or not the offense is gelling ON THE ROAD remains to be seen, but in the 2nd half of yesterday plus overtime, we moved it really well. Besides, there was still work to be done after the 4th and 29, wasn't there?

Nothing delusional about those observations.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1353948811' post='1234726']
[b]Am I the only one who thinks the offense looked like crap throughout the game yesterday? [/b]We were a fluky 4th and 29 away from losing that game. If you think our offense looked good or is gelling, you're kidding yourself (at least on the road).
[/quote]

absolutely not! of course our offense stunk up the joint in the 1st half...on the road....again! however, imo, once Cam FINALLY turned Flacco loose (w/4 mins or so left in the game) to avoid losing the game...THAT'S when things got going offensively. Flacco's release was quick, short and on point! and yes....we got a incredible lucky run by Ray Rice on 4th&29 but remember, this is a game of inches and let's not forget...after an inept offensive performance for nearly 3 qrtrs....we did WIN the game!

~Mili
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I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.

It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.
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[img]http://i.imgur.com/4kmqp.jpg[/img]

Flacco after his TD drive is trying to explain plays to Cameron. -_- Depressing stuff.
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[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1353968278' post='1235116']
I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.

It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.
[/quote]
I personally want us to move in a WCO of the Bill Walsh variety. Something similar to what NE runs. I think it fits our personnel better, mainly our offensive line. I saw us yesterday doing a lot of quick passes and it worked well. I think that fits us better than what Cam's running.

But more than anything, Cam is an old piece of bread and it's stale. I want a new flavor.
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[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1353970866' post='1235162']
I personally want us to move in a WCO of the Bill Walsh variety. Something similar to what NE runs. I think it fits our personnel better, mainly our offensive line. I saw us yesterday doing a lot of quick passes and it worked well. I think that fits us better than what Cam's running.

But more than anything, Cam is an old piece of bread and it's stale. I want a new flavor.
[/quote]well, since John Harbaugh is technically apart of Bill Walsh's coaching tree, it would make since to make that transition one day.
[img]http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a252/calvinsmoke/791px-Bill_Walsh_Coaching_Tree_svg.png[/img]
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[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1353968278' post='1235116']
I think it is time for Cam to go... and I also don't want Norv as a replacement. We saw San Diego struggle just like we did and guess what... we have the same offense. [b]I dont trust the Air Coryell in today's NFL. It's unreliable, a decent pass rush just destroys it. We saw that on both offenses this past Sunday.[/b]

[b]It's a decent system, and can get things done sometimes, but when it goes against real defenses it get's clamped on[/b]. Only after we moved away from that and used a balanced passing attack did we start moving the ball. This offense reminds me of a Pokemon episode from my childhood, were Ash tried to put his Pikachu up against a Raichu and got owned. It may work against weaker opponents, but it's going to need luck to beat a real opponent.
[/quote]

I dont know about that . When san diego played us last year there offense bascially dominated the ravens defense. If the ravens defense last year wasn't a real defense then i dont know what a real defense is . I dont think the Air Corydell philosphy is unreliable but it does require alot more than other offensive schemes. Take note that the chargers offensive line was missing out on their best tackle Jared Gaither and i think their best guard retired before training camp started.

Alot of offensive coordinators use the air corydell philosophy but either used it with other philosophies or used it in a different way.
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