Offensive Coordinator Options for 2013

[BmoreInBmore]

I'd take an intellectually below average chimpanzee over Cam any day.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1354127236' post='1237188']
I'd take an intellectually below average chimpanzee over Cam.
[/quote]

If you could trade coaches I send him out, for a nice pair of slacks and a pack of gum.

[BmoreInBmore]

[quote name='BmoreInBmore' timestamp='1354127236' post='1237188']
I'd take an intellectually below average chimpanzee over Cam any day.
[/quote]

But honestly, here is a list of coaches I'd rather have than Cam;

Bobby Petrino
Jim Mora Sr.
Herm Edwards
Josh Mcdaniels
Mike D'Antoni
Kyle Bowler
Buck Showalter
Andy Reid
Lane Kiffin
Isiah Thomas
Ozzie Guillen
Charlie Batch (Although Still Active)
Jaun Castillo
Shaq
Bruce Springsteen

Just to name a few potentials

[indianstick]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1354124457' post='1237144']
This will sound crazy, but Cam doesn't have a bad system, he just doesn't run it efficiently. He doesn't put his players in position to win often enough. Because of this, the Ravens might just look to promote within. Kind of like they do on the defensive side of the ball.

A unknown young guy like Jason Brooks, might be given a shot. Going forward, this is Flacco's offense. Flacco wants that spread uptempo type and Harbs seems to want it, so that is what will happen. At M&T Bank in 5 games, Flacco is averaging 322.4 yards 2TDs and .6ints. If you average that out over the course of a 16 game season, thats 5,158yds 32TDs 9ints. To me that means says Flacco thrives in the no huddle up tempo offense, so the Ravens definitely will stick with this offense imo.

The challenge to me is getting that same production on the road. How do you do that, you have to put your offense in a position to succeed early. How, you create matches that take advantage of a defensive weakness. The Texans weren't/aren't good enough at the LB and Safety position to match the Ravens talent at TE/RB and in the slot. That should have been the plan of attack early in that game, but it wasn't.

So why Jason Brown, he's the offensive quality control assistant and he's in charge of scouting the opposing defense to help game plan for game. Other then Cam, he probably knows the offense as good as anyone, because he helps with the Wrs and Rbs. He coached WRs in a spread offense in 2008.

Now i don't know if this guy is qualified to be a OC in the NFL, but i think with a heavy input from Caldwell running this no huddle, uptempo sytle and Brooks ability to scout other teams on flim and put together a gameplan with Flacco heavily involved, would be good for this offense.

So I say keep the system, but add a emphasis on actually attacking defenses and feature your offensive weapon. Put the offense in Flacco's hands 100% of the time and just allow the OC and QB coaches to give him the proper information on what to look for and how to attack certain defense.
[/quote]

This would be a good idea if flacco actually could consistently read the defense presnap and know what to look for and how to attack the defense play after play. He also needs to learn when to check pass and when to check run. It seems like he is quick to check to a passing play or change the run up a little which usually doesn't work out. IMO this is his biggest weakness and once he learns how to do it on a consistent basis, he will become elite. This is what seperates him from rodgers, the mannings, brady, brees and even matt ryan. When peyton and brady learned when they needed to check to run, they took their offense to another level. Part of it is Cam because he is so predictable about run/pass and the routes on passing plays are so vanilla.

Regarding people who could replace Cam, jim caldwell is not an option. He has no playcalling experience and other than being a WR coach, offensive assistant, qb coach and HC in college, he has been a qb coach in tampa for a year, then was the qb coach and assistant coach for the colts from 2002-2008 until he became the head coach.

Norv turner, jason garrett, mornhinweg are names that pop into my mind right away.

Another guy who I had to do a little research to find him, is the cardinals qb coach John mcnulty who was offensive coordinator at rutgers for 5 years. However, I also read that greg schiano was trying to get him over to tampa but the cardinals declined to let him interview. IDK if they will decline him again, but we should definitely consider him if cam is gone

[The Raven]

[quote name='AsianRice' timestamp='1354113812' post='1236992']
Norv is the best fit for our current system and I'll be ecstatic if he comes here...
[/quote]

The key idea of getting a new OC is getting a new system, because the previous system didn't work...

[The Raven]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1354130436' post='1237233']
This would be a good idea if flacco actually could consistently read the defense presnap and know what to look for and how to attack the defense play after play. He also needs to learn when to check pass and when to check run. It seems like he is quick to check to a passing play or change the run up a little which usually doesn't work out. IMO this is his biggest weakness and once he learns how to do it on a consistent basis, he will become elite. This is what seperates him from rodgers, the mannings, brady, brees and even matt ryan. When peyton and brady learned when they needed to check to run, they took their offense to another level. Part of it is Cam because he is so predictable about run/pass and the routes on passing plays are so vanilla.

[b]Regarding people who could replace Cam, jim caldwell is not an option. He has no playcalling experience and other than being a WR coach, offensive assistant, qb coach and HC in college, he has been a qb coach in tampa for a year, then was the qb coach and assistant coach for the colts from 2002-2008 until he became the head coach[/b].

Norv turner, jason garrett, mornhinweg are names that pop into my mind right away.

Another guy who I had to do a little research to find him, is the cardinals qb coach John mcnulty who was offensive coordinator at rutgers for 5 years. However, I also read that greg schiano was trying to get him over to tampa but the cardinals declined to let him interview. IDK if they will decline him again, but we should definitely consider him if cam is gone
[/quote]

Dude, did you know that every single offensive coordinator in the NFL wasn't an offensive coordinator before becoming an offensive coordinator? Like dude, they didn't call plays, but then they got hired as a coordinator and then they started calling plays! That's wild, isn't it? Craziness!

[indianstick]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1354131404' post='1237255']
Dude, did you know that every single offensive coordinator in the NFL wasn't an offensive coordinator before becoming an offensive coordinator? Like dude, they didn't call plays, but then they got hired as a coordinator and then they started calling plays! That's wild, isn't it? Craziness!
[/quote]

lol like omg dude but seriously, he has been coaching since 1977 and hasn't been a playcaller for those 35 years, and i doubt its because he hasn't been given the opportunity. Some people are comfortable doing it and some people aren't. I don't think jim caldwell will start now, IMO he will be a HC somewhere before he becomes a OC and starts calling plays.

[black blood purple passion]

Cam and Harbaugh are a package. If you fire Cam you fire Harbaugh.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1354130436' post='1237233']


This would be a good idea if flacco actually could consistently read the defense presnap and know what to look for and how to attack the defense play after play. He also needs to learn when to check pass and when to check run. It seems like he is quick to check to a passing play or change the run up a little which usually doesn't work out. IMO this is his biggest weakness and once he learns how to do it on a consistent basis, he will become elite. This is what seperates him from rodgers, the mannings, brady, brees and even matt ryan. When peyton and brady learned when they needed to check to run, they took their offense to another level. Part of it is Cam because he is so predictable about run/pass and the routes on passing plays are so vanilla.

Regarding people who could replace Cam, jim caldwell is not an option. He has no playcalling experience and other than being a WR coach, offensive assistant, qb coach and HC in college, he has been a qb coach in tampa for a year, then was the qb coach and assistant coach for the colts from 2002-2008 until he became the head coach.

Norv turner, jason garrett, mornhinweg are names that pop into my mind right away.

Another guy who I had to do a little research to find him, is the cardinals qb coach John mcnulty who was offensive coordinator at rutgers for 5 years. However, I also read that greg schiano was trying to get him over to tampa but the cardinals declined to let him interview. IDK if they will decline him again, but we should definitely consider him if cam is gone
[/quote]

This is Flacco's first year of really being asked to read the defense on the fly. He does it well enough and is only getting better. But i get improvement in this area would take him to another level. However, unless you give him that range to work it out, like the QBs you named were allowed to do, he'll always be held back.

As for Caldwell, his play calling experience really doesn't mean much. Everyone always wants a proven guy, but nobody is ever proven until they get a chance to do it. Example...both Jason Garrett and Josh McDaniels broke into the NFL as assistant coaches. Not only did they now have play calling experience, they had no coaching experience at all before the NFL. Both guys turned into really good play callers.

Imo calling plays is more about your ability to understand defensive tendencies and weaknesses, also knowing your personnel and how to use them. I'm not saying Caldwell will be great as a OC or even good, but the one thing that he is praised for is getting a QB to breakdown a defense faster and better.

Because this offense needs to be in Flacco's hands, i don't think the play calling of the OC isn't as important as the concepts he teaches. How are we gonna attack this style defense, or how are we gonna make sure Torrey gets involved in the game. As we all see, when this offense is rolling, it's Flacco out their running things not Cam.

So if Caldwell was promoted to OC and the Ravens gave Flacco free range to run the offense, finding a way to use all the offensive weapons and putting Flacco in position to succeed against any defense would be more important then what plays he calls at what time imo.

[The Raven]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1354131995' post='1237262']
lol like omg dude but seriously, he has been coaching since 1977 and hasn't been a playcaller for those 35 years, and i doubt its because he hasn't been given the opportunity. Some people are comfortable doing it and some people aren't. I don't think jim caldwell will start now, IMO he will be a HC somewhere before he becomes a OC and starts calling plays.
[/quote]
[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1354136381' post='1237349']
This is Flacco's first year of really being asked to read the defense on the fly. He does it well enough and is only getting better. But i get improvement in this area would take him to another level. However, unless you give him that range to work it out, like the QBs you named were allowed to do, he'll always be held back.

As for Caldwell, his play calling experience really doesn't mean much. Everyone always wants a proven guy, but nobody is ever proven until they get a chance to do it. Example...both Jason Garrett and Josh McDaniels broke into the NFL as assistant coaches. Not only did they now have play calling experience, they had no coaching experience at all before the NFL. Both guys turned into really good play callers.

Imo calling plays is more about your ability to understand defensive tendencies and weaknesses, also knowing your personnel and how to use them. I'm not saying Caldwell will be great as a OC or even good, but the one thing that he is praised for is getting a QB to breakdown a defense faster and better.

Because this offense needs to be in Flacco's hands, i don't think the play calling of the OC isn't as important as the concepts he teaches. How are we gonna attack this style defense, or how are we gonna make sure Torrey gets involved in the game. As we all see, when this offense is rolling, it's Flacco out their running things not Cam.

So if Caldwell was promoted to OC and the Ravens gave Flacco free range to run the offense, finding a way to use all the offensive weapons and putting Flacco in position to succeed against any defense would be more important then what plays he calls at what time imo.
[/quote]

[indianstick]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1354136381' post='1237349']
This is Flacco's first year of really being asked to read the defense on the fly. He does it well enough and is only getting better. But i get improvement in this area would take him to another level. However, unless you give him that range to work it out, like the QBs you named were allowed to do, he'll always be held back.

[b]As for Caldwell, his play calling experience really doesn't mean much. Everyone always wants a proven guy, but nobody is ever proven until they get a chance to do it. Example...both Jason Garrett and Josh McDaniels broke into the NFL as assistant coaches. Not only did they now have play calling experience, they had no coaching experience at all before the NFL. Both guys turned into really good play callers.[/b]

Imo calling plays is more about your ability to understand defensive tendencies and weaknesses, also knowing your personnel and how to use them. I'm not saying Caldwell will be great as a OC or even good, but the one thing that he is praised for is getting a QB to breakdown a defense faster and better.

Because this offense needs to be in Flacco's hands, i don't think the play calling of the OC isn't as important as the concepts he teaches. How are we gonna attack this style defense, or how are we gonna make sure Torrey gets involved in the game. As we all see, when this offense is rolling, it's Flacco out their running things not Cam.

So if Caldwell was promoted to OC and the Ravens gave Flacco free range to run the offense, finding a way to use all the offensive weapons and putting Flacco in position to succeed against any defense would be more important then what plays he calls at what time imo.
[/quote]

Regarding the bolded- i get what you are saying, no coach is a coach until they are given the opportunity to coach and no play caller is a play caller until they are given the opportunity to call plays. All I am saying is caldwell has been coaching for 35 years and hasn't been given the opportunity to play call. I don't know why he hasn't been given the opportunity, since like you said he has been praised for teaching qbs how to break down defenses faster and better. And I am not saying he shouldn't get the opportunity to do it just because he hasn't done it for 35 years but all I am saying is that it must mean he isn't a play caller or isn't good at calling plays.

And I also understand how it could work if he was the OC and flacco basically had the freedom to run the offense, kind of like what peyton did in Indy. Call three plays in the huddle and then go to the line and pick which one depending on the defense. But my concern is will flacco be able to do all of that? (and caldwell would still need to call 3 plays ever down.) We will never know if flacco can, until he is given the opportunity and I would be more than happy to see if he has the ability to do all that since he is our future at that position. But I still think it would be better for flacco if he had an effective play caller calling plays and still was given the freedom to run the offense.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1354138735' post='1237403']


Regarding the bolded- i get what you are saying, no coach is a coach until they are given the opportunity to coach and no play caller is a play caller until they are given the opportunity to call plays. All I am saying is caldwell has been coaching for 35 years and hasn't been given the opportunity to play call. I don't know why he hasn't been given the opportunity, since like you said he has been praised for teaching qbs how to break down defenses faster and better. And I am not saying he shouldn't get the opportunity to do it just because he hasn't done it for 35 years but all I am saying is that it must mean he isn't a play caller or isn't good at calling plays.

And I also understand how it could work if he was the OC and flacco basically had the freedom to run the offense, kind of like what peyton did in Indy. Call three plays in the huddle and then go to the line and pick which one depending on the defense. But my concern is will flacco be able to do all of that? (and caldwell would still need to call 3 plays ever down.) We will never know if flacco can, until he is given the opportunity and I would be more than happy to see if he has the ability to do all that since he is our future at that position. But I still think it would be better for flacco if he had an effective play caller calling plays and still was given the freedom to run the offense.
[/quote]

I can definitely see where you're coming from. I'd have no problem with a guy like Norv. I just don't want some like Cam, a guy that want to implement "his" offense, instead of a offense built around Flacco and his weapons.

I think guys like Norv, might have that type approach. Those type guys are good for young QBs and QBs that aren't as good. There has to be a OC who can properly use players and their skill sets, instead of trying to get those players to fit a system.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1353817528' post='1230141']
Norv Turner is an Air Coryell coach. A better Coryell coach than Cam, but still one that runs the same system, that has not been working out for us for so long.
Jason Garrett, if he becomes available, would be a better choice.
[/quote]

This is true but Norv Turner has gotten the best out of Ladanian Tomlinson and Ricky Williams. He knows how to balance run and pass.

[usmccharles]

Theres a lot of options out there and im not going to pretend like i know most of em. I do like the system that norv turner has and think it would work good for us. Although, i do like the idea of promoting within, hopefully who ever we promoted was able to see cams mistakes and lack of game time adjustments and fix that.

[kiwi_raven]

im sure we could get a number of OC from the collage lvl that would do a better job then Cam.

[indianstick]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1354145549' post='1237543']
I can definitely see where you're coming from. I'd have no problem with a guy like Norv. I just don't want some like Cam, a guy that want to implement "his" offense, instead of a offense built around Flacco and his weapons.

I think guys like Norv, might have that type approach. Those type guys are good for young QBs and QBs that aren't as good. There has to be a OC who can properly use players and their skill sets, instead of trying to get those players to fit a system.
[/quote]

Yeah, the worst thing about cam (other than his vanilla play calling) is the fact that he is so stubborn to adapt to the personnel, instead of putting the players in the best position to succeed. It took him a season and a half until he realized boldin was best utilized in the slot. I mean come on, he couldn't tell from watching the first 7 seasons of his career. It's definitely very important for an OC to be able to optimize every players skill sets into the offense.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1354131404' post='1237255']
Dude, did you know that every single offensive coordinator in the NFL wasn't an offensive coordinator before becoming an offensive coordinator? Like dude, they didn't call plays, but then they got hired as a coordinator and then they started calling plays! That's wild, isn't it? Craziness!
[/quote]

lol, wow this was classic.... good stuff

[Aiden80]

well dependingon which hc get fired after this season and those ones that dont get another hc job , caldwell would bethe first to interview but there would be others i would likethem explore a college coach one that has had success

[Aiden80]

please stop with the norv turner nonsense , we need a different system all together not the same turner is the sam style as cam.

[Bravens292]

[quote name='Aiden80' timestamp='1354207477' post='1237947']
please stop with the norv turner nonsense , we need a different system all together not the same turner is the sam style as cam.
[/quote]

i know and norv's offense has actually been worse. i am sick of the air coryell and it doesn't win super bowls. we need a west coast offense walsh style. thats what fits our offense so well. joe thrives on the quick passing game and stats will prove that. just watch the 4th quarter of the chargers game.

[indianstick]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1354222123' post='1238131']
i know and norv's offense has actually been worse. i am sick of the air coryell and it doesn't win super bowls. we need a west coast offense walsh style. thats what fits our offense so well. joe thrives on the quick passing game and stats will prove that. just watch the 4th quarter of the chargers game.
[/quote]

dallas won 2 with norv as the OC..just saying

but ive been saying for the past couple years that we need a quick pass west coast style offense, with some deep passes mixed in

[flaccopoe]

I think it would be more likely that Jim Caldwell becomes OC than Norv Turner. He's been moving some serious weight in the Ravens' organization, using what he learned watching Peyton Manning all those years. If the folks at Qualcomm finally come to their senses and drop Turner, he'll probably just wind up as head coach at a more desperate team. He may even have his eyes on a college team.

[colljb9]

Just thinking how Andy Reid will most likely be fired at the end of this year. Does anyone think it might be a good idea to try and hire him as our offensive coordinator? While Cameron has looked good and bad, its clear that his style just doesn't work with the ravens offense. Harbaugh has ties with Reid and it seems unlikely he'll be offered a head coaching job elsewhere. Reid's had some great offensive teams obviously and it seems he's more willing to make adjustments. Our offense has so many pieces there's just no explanation for the failure in consistency with our offense. It seems caldwell is helping flacco and the addition of reid could help to possibly finally push our offense that little bit it needs.

[theFRANCHISE]

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[BALTIMOREFLACCO]

Please please pleas no.

I'd rather have Cam to be completely honest.

Ken Whisenhunt for OC!

[GrimCoconut]

Not only do I not like having Andy Reid come here, let's also remember Harbaugh was under HIM before coming here. I just don't see Reid coming here of all places and being under John.

[tctony]

No. Not happening. He will be a HC again.

[tctony]

[quote name='BALTIMOREFLACCO' timestamp='1354495262' post='1242962']
Please please pleas no.

I'd rather have Cam to be completely honest.

Ken Whisenhunt for OC!
[/quote]

Haha yeah. If people want to complain that Cam doesn't give RR the ball enough, just imagine what they'd say about Reid.

[usmccharles]

It wont happen. He will be a head coach somewhere. best case scenario i think, norv turner

[T3hRaven]

Andy Reid will get another head coaching job for one. He's also a terrible offensive coordinator for another. I can't imagine the outcry on the boards if he was here, since Ray Rice would be missing.