Merged: Comments on Cam and the Offense-Week 11

[good_n_purple]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353336195' post='1225892']
He wasn't 'phoning it in', he was being made the number two, 'Watch out for this guy,' target behind Ray Rice. They focused on him and were making sure he wasn't gonna make plays. It happens. Why are you mad at Teryl Austin, I thought the DBs played well last night?
[/quote]
I just said HE WAS NOT PHONING IT IN...read it! Yes, even I could see he was not not running his routes crisply, with authority, and physical presence. And yes as stated previously Torrey is a hard worker and a great team guy of the highest character. So, my point is I think the coaching is letting him down.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1353336417' post='1225901']
How did we get through the game without an end-around call?
[/quote]
I swear we could set up an Xbox on the sideline with madden 13, and just use the "ask madden" feature and it would be an improvement over Cam.

[The Raven]

On the bright side, Cam didn't call any of his infamous 3rd and 2 draw plays!

To those who noticed Flacco looking pissed during the game, I noticed it as well. Joe didn't play bad, necessarily, but he didn't play very well either. What he did was enough. I could tell he wanted to do better. He's capable of it too. He really looked frustrated, and I'd guess that Cam has something to do with it.

[757RavensFan]

[quote name='CapoRocky' timestamp='1353336381' post='1225900']
There is little doubt that a lot of our offense struggles were due to the Pittsburgh defense playing a good game.
[/quote]

Pittsburgh's 12th man was Cam!!

[Purple_ICE 81]

Typical cam game...didnt see anything different. I noticed he called way to many shallow routes on third and long, and threw the ball and 3rd and short. And [b]REALLY [/b]wanted Rice to run the ball even though he was averaging about .5 a yard per carry on his first 10 carries (10/13yds), and finished with 20/40yds. Dont know why he kept on running it, luckily after about 12 carries or so Rice started getting bigger chunks but still was ineffective on the ground. Still we should have tried to pass more due to the steelers run defense shuting down rice for the most part. But they have a great run and pass defense so either way its going to be hard. I think we need to get the playaction going early in two weeks when we play them again. we ran the ball over 20 times yesterday so hopefully they will make like the Bengals in week 1 and bite on a lot of our PA fakes and we can get the deep balls going. Then finish them off with the ground game.

[Purple_ICE 81]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1353339993' post='1225957']
I swear we could set up an Xbox on the sideline with madden 13, and just use the "ask madden" feature and it would be an improvement over Cam.
[/quote]
HAHA yes! we should hire john madden as our o-coordinator! thats like going froma schwinn bike, to a lamborghini gallardo

[757RavensFan]

The 3rd and 2 pass call with the Steelers having no timeouts, confirms to me that Joe either doesn't have the option to audible or the situation was above his head at the time. Joe is a smart guy and he knows that an incomplete pass stops the clock. So why didn't he audible out of the play and call a run. Heck even if he calls a QB sneak needing 2 yards, it's a run play and the clock keeps ticking. Him taking the sack on 3rd and 2 (if he decided to eat it intentionally), was probably the smartest decision he made all night.

Someone else said it earlier, if they were doubling T. Smith that means they should have put J. Jones on the opposite side and let him have the opportunity to win the 1 on 1 battle on whoever was covering him.

Someone help me remember. Who was the OC that we had and Brian Billick took the clip board from him and took over the play calling? I mean if we did it before, why not do it now!!

[rlh445]

[quote name='good_n_purple' timestamp='1353338288' post='1225928']
I just said HE WAS NOT PHONING IT IN...read it! Yes, even I could see he was not not running his routes crisply, with authority, and physical presence. And yes as stated previously Torrey is a hard worker and a great team guy of the highest character. So, my point is I think the coaching is letting him down.
[/quote]

Whoops! I guess I didn't see your, 'But,'. My apologies! Sometimes guys are just blanketed and no amount of hard work or coaching is gonna help them, it's just not their night. That was my point. The other guys get paid too, and Ike and Clark were all over Torrey so it wasn't happening. No need to blame the coaches for that at all. If anything, the coaches should get kudos for taking a raw rookie receiver whose biggest knock coming into the NFL being his hands and route running and helping to turn those negatives into positives.

Also, maybe Joe was mad because he was playing badly? Why does it ALWAYS come back to Cam but the players don't get any of the hate? Joe missed some throws and threw some questionable balls into double and triple coverage, but I guess that was just scheme right (even though other guys were clearly open)? Ray Rice almost looked like he WANTED guys to hit him instead of going for the open running lanes at times. I believe our lack of success on the road has way more to do with the offensive line than it does with Cam at this point.

Like, one play early last night I think it was a third and six or something close and Cam called some sort of draw play hoping to catch the Steelers napping. It was a good call, it just didn't work out but people were all over him. The offensive line just let Casey Hampton blow that one up (Birk, boo!) but everyone just railed on Cam for two pages. Gimme a break. I DO want us to find another guy just to see how much more successful we could be with a fresh set of eyes running things, but I'm not gonna sit here and just say he's the only guy responsible for our woes but then not hold him responsible for when we drop 55 on the Raiders. #justsayin'.

[The Raven]

Did we run a single slant route yesterday?

[good_n_purple]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1353341667' post='1225991']
The 3rd and 2 pass call with the Steelers having no timeouts, confirms to me that Joe either doesn't have the option to audible or the situation was above his head at the time. Joe is a smart guy and he knows that an incomplete pass stops the clock. So why didn't he audible out of the play and call a run. Heck even if he calls a QB sneak needing 2 yards, it's a run play and the clock keeps ticking. Him taking the sack on 3rd and 2 (if he decided to eat it intentionally), was probably the smartest decision he made all night.

Someone else said it earlier, if they were doubling T. Smith that means they should have put J. Jones on the opposite side and let him have the opportunity to win the 1 on 1 battle on whoever was covering him.

Someone help me remember. Who was the OC that we had and Brian Billick took the clip board from him and took over the play calling? I mean if we did it before, why not do it now!!
[/quote]
He who's name shall not be mentioned...(whispering) Matt Cavanaugh.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1353341667' post='1225991']
The 3rd and 2 pass call with the Steelers having no timeouts, confirms to me that Joe either doesn't have the option to audible or the situation was above his head at the time. Joe is a smart guy and he knows that an incomplete pass stops the clock. So why didn't he audible out of the play and call a run. Heck even if he calls a QB sneak needing 2 yards, it's a run play and the clock keeps ticking. Him taking the sack on 3rd and 2 (if he decided to eat it intentionally), was probably the smartest decision he made all night.

Someone else said it earlier, if they were doubling T. Smith that means they should have put J. Jones on the opposite side and let him have the opportunity to win the 1 on 1 battle on whoever was covering him.

Someone help me remember. Who was the OC that we had and Brian Billick took the clip board from him and took over the play calling? I mean if we did it before, why not do it now!!
[/quote]

It may have been an example of Cam trying to be more "unpredictable". Sure Cam's playcalling can be mind numbingly boring and conservative, and fans have pleaded for more explosiveness and spontaneity, but you have to be intelligently spontaneous. Don't do a PA bomb on 3rd and 2 just get pierce in there and run him behind Yanda and Leach boom, first down, run again on first down then PA bomb its not rocket science.

[ellicottraven]

I seem to have a simple interim solution for our road woes and Cam Cameron! Why not make Jim Caldwell coordinate our offense in away games as an experiment and see how he does? Let Cam coordinate home games in the interim (why fix something that ain't broke philosophy)! I know it is really impractical and very unlikely but there are no better ideas out there except canning Cam! We all know that isn't happening, so why not explore this alternative??

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353340624' post='1225967']
To those who noticed Flacco looking pissed during the game, I noticed it as well. Joe didn't play bad, necessarily, but he didn't play very well either. What he did was enough. I could tell he wanted to do better. He's capable of it too. He really looked frustrated, and I'd guess that Cam has something to do with it.
[/quote]

I don't recall him seeing upset, or at least more upset than normal. It is not his fault that this offensive scheme requires him to be Superman, completing incredibly difficult throws on every third down (and long). If he was more upset than normal than it was justifiably so. Every QB in the league would struggle under those circumstances. It doesn't help that Ray Rice played like Tiny Tim as he tends to do against good run defenses, especially when Cam gets into one of his "let's run this tiny guy straight up the middle for no gain" moods.

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='bmore187' timestamp='1353305991' post='1225656']
the only thing I can remotely even think of in Cams defense, is maybe since we play them again in two weeks he didnt want to pull all the tricks out of the bag? I still want him fired tho!
[/quote]

I used to think that way about him. Then I kept seeing the same thing over an over.

Joe has some to blame here as well. However, I'm not sure if he's being limited on what he can do or not. But the "Away" Offense vs. "Home" Offense is getting very annoying.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353343252' post='1226026']
Did we run a single slant route yesterday?
[/quote]i think I recall one to boldin. Other than that....no

[DocMartin]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1353302504' post='1225477']
Well, what to say?
Cam really did try to lose this game for us tonight.
3rd and 2 - twice - pass the ball.

Now, I love Rice but he is NOT a power back. At least not this season. So why on earth when we do run short yardage do we ALWAYS go to Rice? Do we not have bigger, bulkier RBs? I know we have Leach. What about him?
Oh and there is this little thing called the middle of the field. You might try using it a bit more. Really.
We got lucky tonight. Very very very lucky. I don't think Joe was allowed to audible tonight. I did not see any evidence he did so at all.
[/quote]
Agreed 100%. I'm glad we somehow managed to win this game. But Cam needs to give his paycheck to the Defensive Coordinator and Special Teams Coordinator as well.
What Cam was calling last night was worst than Conservative, it was LAME. It looked like the offense of Kyle Boller, come on!

[DocMartin]

[quote name='757RavensFan' timestamp='1353340737' post='1225971']

Pittsburgh's 12th man was Cam!!
[/quote]
Yeah, I think you right. Every time we needed to convert the 3rd down,
he called the play 2 or 3 yards short.

[BloodRaven]

FIRE CAM. ENOUGH OF THE BS.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1353343252' post='1226026']
Did we run a single slant route yesterday?
[/quote]
[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353349835' post='1226167']
i think I recall one to boldin. Other than that....no
[/quote]

Actually, the other one I can think of was the 3rd & 11 after the fumble recovery and chance at a TD

[AsianRice]

Seriously, offensively we looked horrendous and pathetic; we need somehow to replicate our home offence for the away games. I don't need 100% replica but 50% is enough to win most games already.

I'm seriously on the bandwagon to go on strike for Cam replacement in the offseason......

Anyways, Special team and defense make me happy and soothe my anger for our Kyle Boller's offense.....

Pitta's out of the game seem to take away our whole offense.....We have Dickson though: attack the middle with him and Boldin as Torrey and Jacoby on the outside.

However, the Steelers front 7 were giving Joe's some good pressure too, and LeBeau called some elusive playcallings like their LBs roaming as to intend to confuse the opposing QB. One time, Joe thought they're coming on the Blitz, but instead they went back for zone defense. As the result, Joe made quick pass which ended up short for first down.

My takes are since the Steelers are giving Joe so many different looks on the defensive playcallings; Joe should try the no huddle offense to slow down the game for him, and he might see what's really coming. Unfortunately, we have so many miscues on the road when we ran no huddle in the past, but that shouldn't stop us from trying. Last night, they didn't even try once on my record....

We need to figure out how to communicate better on the road. If our OT can't hear you, Joe needs to run to their ears for clarity. I know Joe makes some hand signalings but if that's not enough for communication, holler your commands to your teamates like Falcons or Cheese.....Matt Ryan calls Ravens lol......

[DocMartin]

THANKS TO OUR DEFENSE & SPECIAL TEAMS FOR GREAT WIN AGAINST THE STEELERS. And for Cam Cameron we have special Thank You called LET'S MOVE CAM UPSTAIRS BANDWAGON. And here are the reasons why:
1) As a good game planner Cam is, he needs to realize opposing teams make game time adjustments, while he is not adjusting and running the same plays over and over with same personnel. Everyone in the whole stadium knows what play is coming. Worse than Predictable.
2) Joe Flacco is not a robot, he doesn't need to be programmed, he could call the audible or timeout.
3) Cam's nightmare - 3rd down & 2, Rice is nice, but we have Leach & Pierce too, use them.
4) 3rd down non-coversions - when we need 7 yds, Cam calls play for 5, when we need 5 yds Cam calls play for 2 or 3, and when we need 2 yds, we go incomplete or backwards. Maybe he can't see it from his angle.
5) Better view from upstairs, could still call plays, sometimes. Im sure Caldwell can take care of Flacco downstairs, if needed.
Since we have moved DC Dan Peas upstairs, our Defense got much better, so I expect the same result with moving Cam up there as well.
Get more fresh air for Cam, Join LET'S MOVE CAM UPSTAIRS BANDWAGON !

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1353358959' post='1226326']
THANKS TO OUR DEFENSE & SPECIAL TEAMS FOR GREAT WIN AGAINST THE STEELERS. And for Cam Cameron we have special Thank You called LET'S MOVE CAM UPSTAIRS BANDWAGON. And here are the reasons why:
1) As a good game planner Cam is, he needs to realize opposing teams make game time adjustments, while he is not adjusting and running the same plays over and over with same personnel. Everyone in the whole stadium knows what play is coming. Worse than Predictable.
2) Joe Flacco is not a robot, he doesn't need to be programmed, he could call the audible or timeout.
3) Cam's nightmare - 3rd down & 2, Rice is nice, but we have Leach & Pierce too, use them.
4) 3rd down non-coversions - when we need 7 yds, Cam calls play for 5, when we need 5 yds Cam calls play for 2 or 3, and when we need 2 yds, we go incomplete or backwards. Maybe he can't see it from his angle.
5) Better view from upstairs, could still call plays, sometimes. Im sure Caldwell can take care of Flacco downstairs, if needed.
Since we have moved DC Dan Peas upstairs, our Defense got much better, so I expect the same result with moving Cam up there as well.
Get more fresh air for Cam, Join LET'S MOVE CAM UPSTAIRS BANDWAGON !
[/quote]

I'm all for this. Move Cam Upstairs and then, we can all chip in to pay the equipment guys each week for his equipment to "mysteriously" stop working.

[Ravenslifer]

In case anyone wants to watch what a great offensive play caller can do for a quarterback, flip on the MNF game.

[rayrayven]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1353377857' post='1226797']
In case anyone wants to watch what a great offensive play caller can do for a quarterback, flip on the MNF game.
[/quote]

Watch that OL block too - Rice would rush for over 2000 yds with that line. You could drive a SUV through those holes. Ravens line gets no speration in the middle. Even when they get a push they get all bunched up and everyone is in everyone elses way. Gore has it made in San Fran.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='rayrayven' timestamp='1353378397' post='1226813']
Watch that OL block too - Rice would rush for over 2000 yds with that line. You could drive a SUV through those holes. Ravens line gets no speration in the middle. Even when they get a push they get all bunched up and everyone is in everyone elses way. Gore has it made in San Fran.
[/quote]

Good point - their entire starting line except for 1 guy was drafted in 2009 or later, and they have 3 first round picks on that line.

[Gashman]

Congrats to the team for a gutsy win.
I heard the talk all day yesterday, most pundits were against folks who are complaining about the Offense. Here's my take, feel free to vent yours.

I am all about a defensive game, it's what we have been accustomed to for years. However, the majority of our money has been spent to build the Offense, as this is the way of the modern day NFL.

All I am looking for, is better utilization of the new tools we have, to MOVE THE CHAINS, or at least a return on the investment.

If we are going to get worse in 3rd down efficiency, time of possession, and Defensive production because we have to sacrifice good players like JJ, and Redding, then I want to see BETTER production on the Offensive side of the ball. It doesn't mean winning pretty, it means coaching the Offense to better attack the Defense that we are facing that day. Make mid game adjustments when you see what they are taking away, and PLEASE CHANGE THE SNAP COUNT OFTEN!

It appeared when Pitta went down, it messed up our whole game plan, and we defaulted back into the inept offensive play calling we have seen over and over on the road.

To be specific, what happened to 3rd and less than 3 to go? Out pass to the right, or chuck it deep? That seems to be our flawed plan, game after game, why?

Why not have Leach line up as the blocking tight end on a throwing 3rd down situation instead of Pajama, if we still wanted to run a 2 tight end set? He is a way better blocker. Or try and go back to actually running the ball with an unbalanced line using McKinney?

If we don't like slant or crossing routes, don't throw it to that guy, but use it in the play so our favorite out pass won't be so heavily defended.

Please add your suggestions, because we need serious help on this side of the ball just to get the chains moving.

[DocMartin]

Well here's suggestion - move Cam upstairs and have him call plays from up there. Put Caldwell next to Flacco on the sideline and let Joe do his thing.

[callahan09]

I wanted to look into our third or fourth downs with <= 2 yards to go situations, and here's what I found:

Flacco has a 0.0 QB Rating on 12 such downs. 3 / 11 for 7 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Sack for -3 yards. Only 2 first downs. That means 16.7% success rate.

On the other hand, with run plays, we have 18 attempts for 47 yards, 3 TD, 0 Fumbles. 12 first downs. That's a 66.7% success rate.

Just as a fun little comparison, I am going to convert those rushing numbers into a passer's stat line. So, runs that went for positive yardage count as a completion and an attempt, runs that went for no gain count as an attempt and an incompletion, and runs that went for a loss count as a sack (not counted in attempts, yardage counted separately as well).

So, there were 2 attempts for no gain, 3 for a loss of yardage. Therefore the stat line would look like this in passer terms:

118.8 QB Rating on 18 such downs. 13 / 15, 43 yards, 3 TD, 0 INT, 3 Sacks for -4 yards. 12 first downs for a 66.7% conversion rate.

Compare that to Flacco's actual passer statline, and you can see how clearly better we are at running on those downs versus passing.

Remind me again why we ever pass in those situations?

[Purple City Bird Gang]

[quote name='tsizzle95' timestamp='1353300017' post='1225238']
dont forget 3rd and short and then the infamous hope and a prayer bomb
[/quote]lol

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1353450287' post='1227541']
I wanted to look into our third or fourth downs with <= 2 yards to go situations, and here's what I found:

Flacco has a 0.0 QB Rating on 12 such downs. 3 / 11 for 7 yards, 0 TD, 2 INT, 1 Sack. Only 2 first downs. That means 16.7% success rate.

On the other hand, with run plays, we have 18 attempts for 47 yards, 3 TD, 0 Fumbles. 12 first downs. That's a 66.7% success rate.

Remind me again why we ever pass in those situations?
[/quote]give me a break down on the depth on the routes ran and the length of the pass threw and then ill answer.