Merged: What's up with the run game?

[The Raven]

After looking at some stats, our running game dropped off when Bobbie Williams came in as the starter. In fact, Rice has yet to rush for 100 yards since Bobbie came in. His average also dropped off considerably when Harewood came out. He's only had one game with a YPC average greater than 4.0, and that was against the Browns. Bobbie was also responsible for two negative runs yesterday. He has been atrocious and I don't know why he's still listed as the starter. Our tight ends' inability to run block doesn't help the perimeter game, which was very weak yesterday. I have to put the blame of the inconsistent run game on Williams and the tight ends. KO also needs to do better on sealing the edge on outside zone plays.

What do y'all think?

Here are Rice's stats:
http://www.nfl.com/player/rayrice/941/gamelogs

Bobbie Williams' first start was against Dallas.

[gabefergy]

I think (hope) Reid will be the starter moving forward. I also think teams try to take away Rice like Oakland did.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Reid or Harewood should start in place of him.

[berad]

Williams got pulled during the Raiders game and Jah did pretty well.

One play, I saw Bobbie flat on his back right after the snap - Rice was stopped near the line by his man. How does that even happen?

[indianstick]

I've noticed this too. I'm not a fan of bobbie williams, whenever hes played this year, whether its preseason or regular season he hasn't been very effective. His run blocking is poor and his pass blocking (which was supposed to be his strength) is not great either. I don't know if his ankle is still hurt but when jah reid replaced him against oakland it was like night and day. I don't think bobbie wiliams is close to being one of the best 5 linemen we have, i like both reid and harewood over him. I hope the coaching staff agrees and at least lets reid start over bobbie williams against pitt because I don't want to see him getting driven back on run plays to the left.

[H8R]

I've also noticed that rice doesnt always follow Leach and for somereason, he wont bounce it outside. Bobbie wont be playing much from here on out.

[wikle]

I think the game with oakland was just the product of them trying to prove that their game against the bucs the previous week was just a fluke. but i'm fine with a team focusing on rice if it means flacco can produce like he did last sunday

[izvoodoo]

I honestly rather have Harewood and Reid then Williams active on game day. If there's injury he's good depth, but I thought Harewood should have been starting the whole time. His run blocking was beastly.

[allballs]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352762131' post='1217014']
I think (hope) Reid will be the starter moving forward. I also think teams try to take away Rice like Oakland did.
[/quote]

rice, sadly, is going to be a bust, i told you guys last year , and this year, he's another marian barber, thats why we pulled that franchise move, but we gave in... i didnt 4get the indy playoff game, the pit playoff game, ...the front office did. i mean you find a running back anywhere. and we are gravitating to molding flacco into that 100 million dollar qb, so why would u give rice 40? look at what foster did in houston when he was only making $605,000. and never complained, listen to what he said sunday night. no arrogance. dwyer, for pit, guarantee you he outrun rice....

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='wikle' timestamp='1352834937' post='1218206']
I think the game with oakland was just the product of them trying to prove that their game against the bucs the previous week was just a fluke. but i'm fine with a team focusing on rice if it means flacco can produce like he did last sunday
[/quote]

Flacco is fine until he is overused and throws 40-50 times in multiple games (look at the problem Eli is having). Then we see Joe's accuracy and efficiency decrease for weeks at a time. The workload of both Joe and Ray needs to be monitored and balanced for best results.

[Fred Sanford]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352842639' post='1218382']
rice, sadly, is going to be a bust,[/quote]

No doubt. Tony Mandarich, Brian Bosworth, and Ryan Leaf were great draft selections. People might say, 'Hey, the guy led the league in yards from scrimmage,' but those are people who use things like facts, when facts tend to be overrated and listening to 'allballs' asinine blather far more illuminating.

In other news, scientists report that eating paint chips under power lines next to radioactive waste dumps can be detrimental to mental acuity.

[ooo sugahhh 52]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352842639' post='1218382']
[b]rice, sadly, is going to be a bust, [/b]i told you guys last year , and this year, he's another marian barber, thats why we pulled that franchise move, but we gave in... i didnt 4get the indy playoff game, the pit playoff game, ...the front office did. i mean you find a running back anywhere. and we are gravitating to molding flacco into that 100 million dollar qb, so why would u give rice 40? look at what foster did in houston when he was only making $605,000. and never complained, listen to what he said sunday night. no arrogance. dwyer, for pit, guarantee you he outrun rice....
[/quote]
wow

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352842639' post='1218382']


rice, sadly, is going to be a bust, i told you guys last year , and this year, he's another marian barber, thats why we pulled that franchise move, but we gave in... i didnt 4get the indy playoff game, the pit playoff game, ...the front office did. i mean you find a running back anywhere. and we are gravitating to molding flacco into that 100 million dollar qb, so why would u give rice 40? look at what foster did in houston when he was only making $605,000. and never complained, listen to what he said sunday night. no arrogance. dwyer, for pit, guarantee you he outrun rice....
[/quote]rice was making an average of 700k for 4 years as well and didnt complain. You can't even make that argument.

I'm one of the people here who thik we shouldn't have paid but to even think about calling him a bust shows you know nothing about football. Absolutely nothing.

Just to clarify, you don't want rice or flacco on this team?

[JoeCool#5]

Rice is a bust. haha. Thanks for the laugh allballs.

[gabefergy]

Ignore user isnt effective when other ppl quote the trolls gibberish.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352842639' post='1218382']
rice, sadly, is going to be a bust, i told you guys last year , and this year, he's another marian barber, thats why we pulled that franchise move, but we gave in... i didnt 4get the indy playoff game, the pit playoff game, ...the front office did. i mean you find a running back anywhere. and we are gravitating to molding flacco into that 100 million dollar qb, so why would u give rice 40? look at what foster did in houston when he was only making $605,000. and never complained, listen to what he said sunday night. no arrogance. dwyer, for pit, guarantee you he outrun rice....
[/quote]

If Rice is a bust, does that mean that leading the nfl in yards from scrimmage last year and balling out every other year is nullified?

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352846555' post='1218441']
Ignore user isnt effective when other ppl quote the trolls gibberish.
[/quote]i get a laugh form him... Wizard..............

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352842639' post='1218382']
rice, [b]sadly, is going to be a bust,[/b] i told you guys last year , and this year, he's another marian barber, thats why we pulled that franchise move, but we gave in... i didnt 4get the indy playoff game, the pit playoff game, ...the front office did. i mean you find a running back anywhere. and we are gravitating to molding flacco into that 100 million dollar qb, so why would u give rice 40? look at what foster did in houston when he was only making $605,000. and never complained, listen to what he said sunday night. no arrogance. dwyer, for pit, guarantee you he outrun rice....
[/quote]

Most definitely. Totally agree. I mean, just look at his pathetic numbers - 5th in the league in yards from scrimmage, on pace to set a career high in rushing TDs while at the same time on pace right now to have almost 40 fewer carries than last season just proves how overrated Rice is. Breaking 2000 yards from scrimmage is something almost every running back does, not to mention doing it twice in a career, right?

[PolishRifle]

Yup, Rice is on his way to another 1000+ yards rushing season and might reach another carreer high in TDs scored. The danger he poses for opposing defenses helpes our passing game and he still remains one of Flaccos best options to keep the chains moving in the receiving game. So lets complain about his production, because clearly we ran out of things to complain about.

We have the second best record in the AFC, you guys, lets not set a new record for "the most spoiled fanbase in the NFL" and stick with legit complains (here is a hint: It's not the offense!).

[H8R]

I mean, I can see some gripes with Rice in the playoffs... However, teams just stacked the box and took away our best player. Until last season, we couldn't do anything about it.

[The Raven]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352832029' post='1218171']
I've also noticed that rice doesnt always follow Leach and for somereason, he wont bounce it outside. Bobbie wont be playing much from here on out.
[/quote]

So I'm not the only one. Rice has an awful habit of not following his pro bowl fullback. It pisses me off.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352852236' post='1218506']
So I'm not the only one. Rice has an awful habit of not following his pro bowl fullback. It pisses me off.
[/quote]

No you aren't the only one - it's been happening since last year. I remember the game Rice got frustrated and started yelling at Leach and Leach was trying to calm him down and tell him to follow his lead. I can't understand it myself - my only thought is maybe Rice doesn't want to be predictable and give the defense something to key in on.

[allballs]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1352846007' post='1218435']
rice was making an average of 700k for 4 years as well and didnt complain. You can't even make that argument.

I'm one of the people here who thik we shouldn't have paid but to even think about calling him a bust shows you know nothing about football. Absolutely nothing.

Just to clarify, you don't want rice or flacco on this team?
[/quote]

as i've quoted b4, i would have got rid of both of them(pit, playoffs '11). when you keep exiting the playoffs the same way, by the same players, thats when you make the change, you don't pay them more money and think they're gonna play harder... draft position only indicates pay scale, and when high price high picks, cost you more than theyre worth, you get rid of them...tom brady 6th round, 3 rings. dominated peyton for a long time. kurt warner, bagging groceries at acme or 'superfresh'.
terrell davis, 6th round, 2000 yd rusher, helped elway over to lombardi land , emmitt wasnt highly touted he got 3. trust me, i want ust to win more than you, if flacco and rice MAKE THE PLAYS IN THE PLAYOFFS, we will be the next afc dynasty before they're done, brady's near his end with peyton, ben had his day 2/3 rings, its our time, cincy and cleveland are making strides, we gotta get this now, i mean 3 of the next 5 rings...

[allballs]

[i]in brief, we shoulda just got jonathan stewart, rice's running style just isnt gonna hold up, and why would you want it to? like i said, we're caught up in transforming into a passing team and i hate it, but flacco's gonna get extended 50-80million, rice will fade away and be a bust, flacco will keep throwing us out of the playoffs and we'll be back to the same old thing, coming up short in the playoffs. a running back, from rutgers? rutgers? i mean rutgers, in new jersey.. new jersey? rutgers? a qb from delaware? i mean delaware? delaware? c'mon man [/i]

[SirPainsalot]

I think Vonta Leach needs to be used more effectively. I think I see him at least twice a game... Which isn't enough in my eyes. Looking at the stats, apparently he's only started in 6 games out of 9. Has anyone else noticed that?

[arnie_uk]

Your a knee slapper all balls....

[Bltravens]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352926259' post='1219165']
[i]in brief, we shoulda just got jonathan stewart, rice's running style just isnt gonna hold up, and why would you want it to? like i said, we're caught up in transforming into a passing team and i hate it, but flacco's gonna get extended 50-80million, rice will fade away and be a bust, flacco will keep throwing us out of the playoffs and we'll be back to the same old thing, coming up short in the playoffs. a running back, from rutgers? rutgers? i mean rutgers, in new jersey.. new jersey? rutgers? a qb from delaware? i mean delaware? delaware? c'mon man [/i]
[/quote]
What in the high hell are you talking about? Who gives a damn where they came from, Rice is one of 3 truly dual threat HBs in the entire league with Foster and Forte. While I don't like how Rice disappears at times against tough defenses, there are only 2 other guys who scare teams in the passing game like Rice. You're not going to win in the NFL with a Jamal Lewis style HB and a QB that can't win some games on his arm. Even still, we went out and got a 220 pound HB in Pierce who fits the zone stretch scheme.
We have the HB position covered.

[The Raven]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352925826' post='1219161']
as i've quoted b4, i would have got rid of both of them(pit, playoffs '11). when you keep exiting the playoffs the same way, by the same players, thats when you make the change, you don't pay them more money and think they're gonna play harder... draft position only indicates pay scale, and when high price high picks, cost you more than theyre worth, you get rid of them...tom brady 6th round, 3 rings. dominated peyton for a long time. kurt warner, bagging groceries at acme or 'superfresh'.
terrell davis, 6th round, 2000 yd rusher, helped elway over to lombardi land , emmitt wasnt highly touted he got 3. trust me, i want ust to win more than you, if flacco and rice MAKE THE PLAYS IN THE PLAYOFFS, we will be the next afc dynasty before they're done, brady's near his end with peyton, ben had his day 2/3 rings, its our time, cincy and cleveland are making strides, we gotta get this now, i mean 3 of the next 5 rings...
[/quote]
[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352926259' post='1219165']
[i]in brief, we shoulda just got jonathan stewart, rice's running style just isnt gonna hold up, and why would you want it to? like i said, we're caught up in transforming into a passing team and i hate it, but flacco's gonna get extended 50-80million, rice will fade away and be a bust, flacco will keep throwing us out of the playoffs and we'll be back to the same old thing, coming up short in the playoffs. a running back, from rutgers? rutgers? i mean rutgers, in new jersey.. new jersey? rutgers? a qb from delaware? i mean delaware? delaware? c'mon man [/i]
[/quote]

Are you completely daft or are you trolling us?

[wikle]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352929238' post='1219204']
Are you completely daft or are you trolling us?
[/quote]I'm assuming he is trolling, and almost everybody is feeding him

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='SirPainsalot' timestamp='1352926747' post='1219173']
I think Vonta Leach needs to be used more effectively. I think I see him at least twice a game... Which isn't enough in my eyes. Looking at the stats, apparently he's only started in 6 games out of 9. Has anyone else noticed that?
[/quote]

I think you are missing the fact that Cam often will split Leach out wide and that makes it look as if there is no FB on the field.

At least over the last 2 games, Leach has played a lot. I think another thing people don't realize is that, when you have an offense going 3 and out 4,5,6,7 straight possessions, it's hard to get all the weapons that the Ravens have on the field. In the 4 games leading up to the OAK game, the Ravens had total plays of 55,49,59 and 62 respectively. Against the Browns last week they ran 62 plays, but 22 of those plays came in the first 7 minutes of the first quarter. So only 40 plays were run over the final 3.5 quarters of that game.

Conversely over the first 4 games of the season, when the Offense was looking like they were on their way to elite, the Ravens only had one game where they didn't run 60+ plays. That was the Bengals game 58 plays, but we were in clock eating mode for much of the 4th quarter. I think on average, 65 plays a game would be the norm for offenses around the NFL, and the Ravens are below that this season.

There is no doubt that Leach should be featured in this offense a lot, even when it's up tempo. However the offense has to do a better job of getting early first down to give them more play opportunity to get guys onto the field.