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cobrajet

Backups better than injured starters?

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I maybe wrong but I have always felt that it is better to play a young second string guy at 100% health than a starter just trying to get through a game playing at 70%, with a few exceptions of course, because for me, Derrick Mason was one of those exceptions. I really think and AGAIN I could be wrong but I think it was not a coincidence we looked better today with our hurting starters on the sidelines. In my humble opinion, I honestly believe that Reed should have also sat today. That touchdown by Heyward-Bey seemed to me because Ed could not physically tackle him because he is just hurting too badly. I know he has been hurt most of the year and still making interceptions, but I hope the coaches learned something putting the healthy guys in today, especially on our lines.

I actually think we may have looked better the past few weeks if we would have replaced some of these injured guys earlier. Of course, we can not leave the decision up to them because they all still want to play. I want to know if others agree or disagree, especially with Ed. This maybe a bad time to ask this, because I think with the Steelers coming up, most people will say Ed needs to play. I think that there is no way is Ed going to not play if the decision is left up to him when it comes to playing the Steelers.

Sorry, that is a little long winded everyone.
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[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1352684128' post='1216259']Derrick Mason was one of those exceptions.
[/quote]

Mase was a warrior no doubt, but I think that is more because his backups were so terrible. Who did we even have behind Mase? Figurs? Harper? Eron Riley? I legitimately don't remember. Clayton I guess?
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It's hard to say. We were clearly playing against a very bad team today. I'm not sure the results would be the same against a tougher opponent.
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I'd have to somewhat agree. People have to remember that football is a sport. Some guys are better than others but a Ngata with a hurt shoulder isn't as strong as most of the defensive linemen. While Ngata may be bigger, stronger, faster, have better rush moves etc. than the other guy, he is still hurt.

I think that if someone is hurt on the Defensive Line and in the Linebacking corps then they should sit. Cornerbacks not so much unless it is a serious leg injury. Plus it takes criticism off of them when they blow a big play due to injury. Football is football and injuries make you play slower and weaker.

DeAngelo Tyson proved he can start today and I think we need to give him a chance.
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Honestly right now, don't hate me for this, but I think we should pull a patriots style of play, where we focus more on our offense being great with kind of a slacking defense than trying to fix our defense for the season. It worked today, and we can fix our defense in the offseason. Great game for the offense today.
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I want the best 11 on the field at any time, and Ed Reed does not fit that requirement this year. He cannot tackle and he is playing slow.
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[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1352695332' post='1216490']
I want the best 11 on the field at any time, and Ed Reed does not fit that requirement this year. He cannot tackle and he is playing slow.
[/quote]
I don't disagree, just let him play in the back, not in coverage. Let him be an INT specialist. Anyone else agree?
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[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1352687452' post='1216340']
It's hard to say. We were clearly playing against a very bad team today. I'm not sure the results would be the same against a tougher opponent.
[/quote]
Agreed
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For the past 3 seasons( since that nerve impingement) Ed reed has not been able to wrap up.however he has been pretty good in coverage(excluding today). He should be played in an exclusive coverage role(minimal contact). And Hjullmann Defense wins championships.
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[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352695558' post='1216496']
I don't disagree, just let him play in the back, not in coverage. Let him be an INT specialist. Anyone else agree?
[/quote]

only if he picks ben twice this coming sunday
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[quote name='RivenHale' timestamp='1352685442' post='1216287']
Mase was a warrior no doubt, but I think that is more because his backups were so terrible. Who did we even have behind Mase? Figurs? Harper? Eron Riley? I legitimately don't remember. Clayton I guess?
[/quote]

You do realize it was as recent as earlier this season people here were blaming the receivers yet again, saying they couldn't catch or get open. So I don't think it matters who was behind Mason. He's one of the best, no matter who else is on the team. He would have been one of the best on any team, including this current one.
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Every time Ed Reed misses a tackle... people go crazy saying he can't tackle anymore. And yet when he completely blows through a blocker and takes down the ball carrier(which he did as recently as last week against the Browns) people just completely ignore it.

He had a bad game against the Raiders. What, he's not allowed a bad game? Flacco is allowed quite a few bad games, and Reed has put in much more time than him. So I think he's allowed a bad game or two.

And yes, if he's too injured to play then he should sit. And for everyone who said we should have kept Graham over Gorrer... you have no right to talk about the defense giving up anything.
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[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352721833' post='1216611']
And yet when he completely blows through a blocker and takes down the ball carrier(which he did as recently as last week against the Browns) people just completely ignore it.
[/quote]
I feel it is very telling that you had to actually detail a big play from Reed this season. :(
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[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352721833' post='1216611']
Every time Ed Reed misses a tackle... people go crazy saying he can't tackle anymore. And yet when he completely blows through a blocker and takes down the ball carrier(which he did as recently as last week against the Browns) people just completely ignore it.

He had a bad game against the Raiders. What, he's not allowed a bad game? Flacco is allowed quite a few bad games, and Reed has put in much more time than him. So I think he's allowed a bad game or two.

And yes, if he's too injured to play then he should sit. And for everyone who said we should have kept Graham over Gorrer... you have no right to talk about the defense giving up anything.
[/quote]
Ed Reed is great and even playing hurt he has still been picking off passes all year, but he looked in so much pain out there. It seemed clear that he aggrevated his injury very early in the game and it does make me wonder how much his injury is effecting his play. I totally agree with you that someone as great as Ed should be entitled to a bad game, it happens, but yesterday my eyes kept telling me this guy is too hurt to be in there. Ed is a warrior, like Derrick Mason was, but at some point this year he may have to come off the field and yesterday, I am sorry but IMHO, it looked like it should have been time for our backup free safety to play.

I am a little confused about your last sentence, did you mean Gorrer over Graham? I only ask because so many people were shocked about the Gorrer cut. I honestly have not been following the Bucs, so I don't know if Danny is playing or how he is playing.
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Like last year's AFCN?

Anyway. Reed needs to be benched until he's better. He gave up one touchdown on his own, contributed to the second, and gave up almost a hundred yards on his own yesterday. I'd say put him in coverage where he doesn't have to tackle, but then Reed needs someone else near him to tackle because we all know that he isn't good enough to defend every pass that comes by him.
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[quote name='BMORE_96' timestamp='1352699647' post='1216548']
For the past 3 seasons( since that nerve impingement) Ed reed has not been able to wrap up.however he has been pretty good in coverage(excluding today). He should be played in an exclusive coverage role(minimal contact). And Hjullmann Defense wins championships.
[/quote]
Like last year's AFCN?

Anyway. Reed needs to be benched until he's better. He gave up one touchdown on his own, contributed to the second, and gave up almost a hundred yards on his own yesterday. I'd say put him in coverage where he doesn't have to tackle, but then Reed needs someone else near him to tackle because we all know that he isn't good enough to defend every pass that comes by him.
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A lot of people have been saying to make Reed focus on just coverage and put him in a situation where he won't have to tackle often. Um, hello! This is football! He's going to have to make tackles either way! There's no way around it! Unless he leaves the NFL for a flag football league...
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352730815' post='1216665']
A lot of people have been saying to make Reed focus on just coverage and put him in a situation where he won't have to tackle often. Um, hello! This is football! He's going to have to make tackles either way! There's no way around it! Unless he leaves the NFL for a flag football league...
[/quote]
Wait. The NFL isn't a flag football league?
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Unless Reed is really hurt, no way do you rest him. He is our best player in the secondary and changes the way teams play us. That's like resting Peyton Manning. Reed's going to have his share of injuries. He's older. But you can't deny he is always in a position to make a play. The guy had a bad game, and has made some mistakes this year but he is not the reason the Ravens have lost/had games close.

As for back-ups, yeah, I say play them if the starter is seriously injured. It might be a good idea to rest Reed for some snaps, like on obvious running situations. But not half the game. I think what the coaches are doing now is right, except he should've been out of the game sooner yesterday.
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I think maybe the fresh legs has a lot to do with it. 7 NFL games can and does put your body through it's paces and the fact that our replacements have very fresh legs and the fact that they are playing in a NFL game will bring out the hype in anyone. Plus that is their one shot to make a impression in a live game, oh and it was just the raiders.
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[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1352691534' post='1216434']
I agree, injuries at some point will turn a dominant player into a liability. Resting Ngata was the right move.
[/quote]
Agreed. Although Haloti at 50% is till better than most in the league, it's been obvious he's hurt.
Reed should have been benched three games ago - reputation doesn't win games.

Major props to the young guys - Tyson, Upshaw and Chykie all played solid, and Kruger's getting better every game.
And can't deny the impact Sizzle's having just by being on the field - offenses have to account for him, giving our young guys more of a chance to shine, while anybody watching tape knew they could lay back on Haloti and Ed.
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It is time for Coach Harbaugh to tell Ed Reed that he is not healthy enough to play. Ed is going to cause us to lose against Pittsburgh. He cannot tackle. He has only one arm. In addition, they are flying by him. Ed if you are hurt or your not interested in football anymore don't be selfish let someone else get a chance. It's hard to accept that maybe your days are passed!
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Reed might not be tackling well, but his presence alone impacts our defense more than any other safety of ours can. His high football IQ is just as deadly as Bob Sanders running around rocking people as hard as he can.
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[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1352687452' post='1216340']
It's hard to say. We were clearly playing against a very bad team today. I'm not sure the results would be the same against a tougher opponent.
[/quote]Maybe not, but I think we may have still scored at least 35
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[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1352691534' post='1216434']
I agree, injuries at some point will turn a dominant player into a liability. Resting Ngata was the right move.
[/quote]I hope he can get back to his old self by Sunday night to help with the pass rush
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I agree with the OP, as long as we're talking about injured players - yes, resting Ngata was the right move... and Reed should have sat - at least only played a half. But last week, we heard from some here, that we should give an (untested) backup the start... just because we "don't know" how good they are...

One poster suggested starting Tyrod Taylor over Flacco... gee, I wonder where he is today? ;)
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I've wanted Ngata to rest since the injury occurred before the Texans game, so that he could be strong the rest of season. Instead he has aggravated other injuries now.

Tyson played well, but I'm not going on a knee-jerk reaction that he is " the next big thing" based on a game versus the Raiders a team that usually only shows up for a half a game anyway.

A healthy Tyson can play snaps for an injured McPhee and perform better, but an injured Ngata can still draw double teams to free others up for tackles.
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I'm only hoping that playing so many young inexperienced players on defense this year leads to a better more prepared defense next season.

Watching my Ravens defense struggle and make mistakes just like my Miami Hurricanes defense filled with Freshmen and Sophomores hope both units improve drastically next year.
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