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Gashman

Off Season Conditioning

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So we all know Ray Lewis has the ultimate off season regimen and there is no secret that among other things that is probably the main reason he has lasted so many years without any major injury problems.

I noticed Ngata was a bit heavier this year coming into camp as were others including Upshaw.

With the amount of money invested in Ngata and now the second year in a row with these nagging injuries...... you see where I am going with this

...Questions...

How strong were our D lineman getting in the off season?

How high of a priority is bulking up in the off season?

Do we assign a personal trainer to make sure we are getting a return on our investments or do we leave it up to the players to decide if they want to get off the couch in the off season. Just a thought

If anybody could shed some light into this definately do so.

Anyway does anybody think off season conditioning has anything to do with our guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball?
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And more importantly is there any data to suggest that staying shape if you are a big guy in the off season will minimize injuries?
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Weight is often a trial and error thing, Cody was better last year at 330lb and Ngata is better this year back at 350lb. It comes down to each persons natural size and frame, too low and you lose strength, too high and you slow down.
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Ngata has been a beast this year when healthy, but injuries have hampered him once again. Cody, I'm not really sure about. All the talk in the offseason was how he was a constant presence in the Castle working out and what not, but he has been a big dissappointment on the field. I don't know if it's a mental thing with him or what, but he certainly doesnt look as sloppy as he used to.
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I was looking at the correlation between lack of strength training vs injuries which may be Ngatas case but maybe its heart and technique with Cody. Kemo has been pancaked enough to fall into the Ngata category probably.
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[quote name='Gashman' timestamp='1352343231' post='1213096']
So we all know Ray Lewis has the ultimate off season regimen and there is no secret that among other things that is probably the main reason he has lasted so many years without any major injury problems.

I noticed Ngata was a bit heavier this year coming into camp as were others including Upshaw.

With the amount of money invested in Ngata and now the second year in a row with these nagging injuries...... you see where I am going with this

...Questions...

How strong were our D lineman getting in the off season?

How high of a priority is bulking up in the off season?

Do we assign a personal trainer to make sure we are getting a return on our investments or do we leave it up to the players to decide if they want to get off the couch in the off season. Just a thought

If anybody could shed some light into this definately do so.

Anyway does anybody think off season conditioning has anything to do with our guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball?
[/quote]

I have thought about this same issue and all i can come up with is whether the players want to or not keep in shape they are paid very well to perform at their highest level. A lot of the players looked out of shape and some still do 8 weeks into the season.

It is the Coach's job job to make sure the players are in shape and ready for their safety and for the team so they can perform. Harb's seems very lax about a lot of things this season and by the looks of Cody this very topic is his issue. The guy is overweight, weak and getting pushed all over the field.

Coach needs to either put a foot down and start penalizing all players who are out of shape and not pick and choose like he did with Mckinnie but not with Cody.

So far i have to say that Harbs is being very lax with the players, will not come down on the coordinators when they need it and they do need it. Seems like he is settling and is happy with the current situation or he would make some changes. If Cam keeps the ball out of Rices hands then Cam needs to be corrected. If Pees insists on having the corners play off of the receivers and not playing press then he needs to be corrected. When you keep Oher at LT and Mckinnie sits on the bench you need to get Mckinnie back on the field and at LT and move oher over to say the Browns team LOL to RT.

He needs to be firm and do whats best and not be afraid to hurt feelings and if the players dont want to be in shape they lose money, hit them where it hurts.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1352393837' post='1213275']
I have thought about this same issue and all i can come up with is whether the players want to or not keep in shape they are paid very well to perform at their highest level. A lot of the players looked out of shape and some still do 8 weeks into the season.

It is the Coach's job job to make sure the players are in shape and ready for their safety and for the team so they can perform. Harb's seems very lax about a lot of things this season and by the looks of Cody this very topic is his issue. The guy is overweight, weak and getting pushed all over the field.

Coach needs to either put a foot down and start penalizing all players who are out of shape and not pick and choose like he did with Mckinnie but not with Cody.

So far i have to say that Harbs is being very lax with the players, will not come down on the coordinators when they need it and they do need it. Seems like he is settling and is happy with the current situation or he would make some changes. If Cam keeps the ball out of Rices hands then Cam needs to be corrected. If Pees insists on having the corners play off of the receivers and not playing press then he needs to be corrected. When you keep Oher at LT and Mckinnie sits on the bench you need to get Mckinnie back on the field and at LT and move oher over to say the Browns team LOL to RT.

He needs to be firm and do whats best and not be afraid to hurt feelings and if the players dont want to be in shape they lose money, hit them where it hurts.
[/quote]

Why did you make this a Harbaugh thread?! This is not about the coaches, or the oline, or Pees, or anything else but the conditioning of the players! For Pete's sake! And no!!! Harbs is not responsible for players being in shape. That's the strength and conditioning coach's job! That's why he's called the [u]strength and conditioning[/u] coach!

Tell me who looks out of shape. Can you name them?
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The best example is Cody. The guy has zero strength, always ends up on his back and his over-all body shape. Please tell me he is in shape right ?
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1352396373' post='1213305']
The best example is Cody. The guy has zero strength, always ends up on his back and his over-all body shape. Please tell me he is in shape right ?
[/quote]

Definitely not. Have you ever heard the phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"? I think that applies here. Everyone knows Cody is out of shape; you might as well not have even mentioned him.

Any other brilliant examples?
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I should have also added Torrey as well. When the guy gets pressed he can not get off of the corner and get down field with any seperation. He needs to maybe follow Boldins routine and get stronger.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1352396494' post='1213308']
I should have also added Torrey as well. When the guy gets pressed he can not get off of the corner and get down field with any seperation. He needs to maybe follow Boldins routine and get stronger.
[/quote]

This happens to nearly half the receivers in the league or more. A lack of strength doesn't necessarily indicate being out of shape, at least at the wide receiver position. Also, an inability to get off a jam can be attributed to bad technique as well.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1352396494' post='1213308']
I should have also added Torrey as well. When the guy gets pressed he can not get off of the corner and get down field with any seperation. He needs to maybe follow Boldins routine and get stronger.
[/quote]

Being able to get off of press coverage has everything to do with technique. He is actually very strong and athletic.
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Posted · Hidden by Moderator 3, November 8, 2012 - Attack · Report post

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352394141' post='1213280']
Why did you make this a Harbaugh thread?! This is not about the coaches, or the oline, or Pees, or anything else but the conditioning of the players! For Pete's sake! And no!!! Harbs is not responsible for players being in shape. That's the strength and conditioning coach's job! That's why he's called the [u]strength and conditioning[/u] coach!

Tell me who looks out of shape. Can you name them?
[/quote]

You seriosuly have to be the biggest fool on this website. The garbage that perpetualy comes out of your sewer is almost too funny to take seriously.

So let me get this right? You got a boss right? (prob not I always assumed your around 14 based on your maturity and lack of well anything resembling a functioning brain). Your Boss is doing poorly and your Boss's Boss lets it go. So when your CEO or President comes around to set things strait, who do you think he is going to go after? Its called leadership and responsibility. As a leader, you are responsible for those under you. If they arent performing or doing their job, then YOU arent performing or doing your job. As a supervisor it is your job to ensure and hold your employees to the standard. It is a leadership failure.

Normaly this is considered common sense, but in your case, It warrents being spelled out. I still dont know why I waste my time explaining things to you.......I'm the real idiot here thinking you are capable of logical thought.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352396466' post='1213306']
Definitely not. Have you ever heard the phrase "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"? I think that applies here. Everyone knows Cody is out of shape; you might as well not have even mentioned him.

Any other brilliant examples?
[/quote]

What is your proffesion if I might ask? Do you even have a job?
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[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1352403338' post='1213377']
What is your proffesion if I might ask? Do you even have a job?
[/quote]

Freshman in college. Since you insulted my intelligence, I guess it's worth mentioning that I have a 3.3 GPA while in the honor's program.

Anyhow, I get your point about bosses, leadership and whatnot. I understand that. But in the off-season, how exactly can Harbaugh manage what kind of shape his players come in? Also, what can he do to punish them for not being in shape? Fine them? How do you know what happens behind closed doors?

Considering the vast majority came into the season in shape, I see no reason to blame any coach for the conditioning problems.

What players, other than Cody, are out of shape?
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Let's get back to the issue at hand. Is it the HC's responsibility to make sure his players are in good shape. The short answer is yes, but in reality the responsibility is delegated to the Strength and Conditioning Coach. Now what can Harbaugh do if the players are not in good shape? 1) fine the players 2) bench the players 3) fire the S & C coach. 4) yell at the players in his office.

Addressing the first option, we have seen this done to both McKinnie and Upshaw. I dont know if Cody is being fined or not and frankly he actually looks to me in better shape than he did when he entered the league. That certainly hasnt shown up on the field but there are other factors that come into play when a player is being pushed around other than fitness.

The second option IMO is the one to pay attention to here. Last season Cody was our starting NT. This season he is not only not starting but seeing less than 50% of the NT snaps. He got beat out by an old veteran who isnt even 100% healthy. It doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure out that Harbaugh is in fact addressing the issues with Cody by decreasing his playing time.

The third and fourth options I cant really speak to because it seems that the majority of our players are in fact in good playing shape and frankly we dont know what goes on behind the scenes. What we do know is players have been fined for being overweight and been benched or had their roles reduced as well (McKinnie being benched and Cody losing starting role as previously mentioned) What other players look like they are out of shape?
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It's Harbaugh's job to make sure players are in shape? I've heard it all...

It's not even on the strength/conditioning guys, either. Sure, they can help (and they do), but It's on the players. What are they paid millions of dollars to do?
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1352409884' post='1213446']
It's Harbaugh's job to make sure players are in shape? I've heard it all...

It's not even on the strength/conditioning guys, either. Sure, they can help (and they do), but It's on the players. What are they paid millions of dollars to do?
[/quote]

I have to agree. These players are paid to play and if it requires they stay in shape to do so than they need to do so. If they become unable to do their job because of their own neglect than they will be replaced. Pretty sure these guys have all the resources necessary. Harbaugh is a coach, not a personal trainer.
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[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1352344535' post='1213099']
Weight is often a trial and error thing, Cody was better last year at 330lb and Ngata is better this year back at 350lb. It comes down to each persons natural size and frame, too low and you lose strength, too high and you slow down.
[/quote]

Ngata isn't better at all..
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352415110' post='1213499']
Ngata isn't better at all..
[/quote]

He was playing exceptionally well until he got hurt. His durability is an issue, not his weight.
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352415110' post='1213499']
Ngata isn't better at all..
[/quote]

He is better, he wasn't as strong last year.
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[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1352423107' post='1213582']


He is better, he wasn't as strong last year.
[/quote]

are you watching the same guy? I have to strongly disagree. All that talk of Ngata getting double/triple teamed is hogwash. he isn't getting the respect that he used to.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352419730' post='1213555']


He was playing exceptionally well until he got hurt. His durability is an issue, not his weight.
[/quote]

His weight may be the cause of his durability issues
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352425855' post='1213609']


His weight may be the cause of his durability issues
[/quote]

That is exactly one of my points. Heavier puts more strain on knees....lack of leg strength hurts your push
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[quote name='Gashman' timestamp='1352426812' post='1213623']
That is exactly one of my points. Heavier puts more strain on knees....lack of leg strength hurts your push
[/quote]

Lack of leg strength?

Haloti said he gained weight specifically to stay stronger and more durable through the season.
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352425855' post='1213609']
His weight may be the cause of his durability issues
[/quote]
[quote name='Gashman' timestamp='1352426812' post='1213623']
That is exactly one of my points. Heavier puts more strain on knees....lack of leg strength hurts your push
[/quote]
[quote name='berad' timestamp='1352427183' post='1213630']
Lack of leg strength?

Haloti said he gained weight specifically to stay stronger and more durable through the season.
[/quote]

As Berad points out, Ngata intentionally put on a few extra pounds to be more durable and powerful. Last season was the first season he played at a lighter weight and the results were mixed. He went back to his old playing weight and looked just as good if not better on the field.

I would like to hear an explanation as to how 10 extra lbs would lead to a torn MCL or Shoulder injury.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352427896' post='1213640']
I would like to hear an explanation as to how 10 extra lbs would lead to a torn MCL or Shoulder injury.
[/quote]
You find an unattended plate of bacon in the locker room and go for a nosedive lol.
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[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352425797' post='1213606']
are you watching the same guy? I have to strongly disagree. All that talk of Ngata getting double/triple teamed is hogwash. he isn't getting the respect that he used to.
[/quote]

He's playing injured, but you already knew that. The first few games he was on fire.
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Personally, I think the problem lies with these guys lifting weights in the off-season without a strength and conditioning coach to monitor their developmemt. Case in point, the job of a strength and conditioning coach is to monitor the ratio of training of the muscles so they stay in balance. Like when the butt muscles are too strong it stresses and affects the hamstrings if they are not strengthened in the proper ratio to the butt muscles, resulting in hamstring pulls, strains, and tears; that in turn can also affect the ligaments and muscles in the knees as well. Their all connected! We had alot of hamstring issues with a multitude of players in training camp and OTA's this pre-season, and at the beginning of the season too. Now we are seeing alot of knee injuries. As the jingle goes...the thigh bone's connected to the knee bone, etc. Just sayin'!
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