A team without a leader

[BenMir]

For the guys complaining about Ozzie's draft skills..let's review. How would you determine a good draft? 2-3 starters,maybe couple of good back ups?
2012 draft - Only half a season,but we have Upshaw (soon to be a starter), K.O(Starter),Pierce(decent back up) and a project in Gino. 2 starters here.
2011 - Jimmy(Not a shutdown,but a starting caliber),Torrey(probowl caliber starter),McPhee( Starter,hindered by a knee injury.And trust me,it sure slows you down). Project in Doss. 3 starters.
2010 - Pitta(starter),Harewood(should be starting),Cody&Dickson(used to start).
2009 - Oher(starter),Kruger(situational pass rusher),Webb(all pro).
Combine that with some good UDFAs and Ozzie is the boss. ALL the defensive players were great pre Pees.

[RivenHale]

Does Jimmy count as a starting caliber corner? He couldn't beat Cary, who is solid but slightly above average if that.

Not bashing Ozzie or Jimmy, I think he'll be great one day and I trust in Ozzie. Just looking at your arguments.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

guys honestly this doom and gloom is my schtick please stop making me be the voice of reason its not me , but here goes.

One I think you guys are being hard on ozzie because we have had winning seasons and others have used the draft to get us in this position , I agree thats what we could do if we had a losing season to pitt or NE but I think its poor sportsmanship. But lets take a look at this for a minute at the last draft only 2 lbs taken that we targeted went to rivals , Both are injured . So thats actualy a plus for Upshaw. Ozzie could not have foreseen the departing of most of our D Line but he can rectify it this draft or FAP . but what I will say is Pees may have been rushed into this position, Pagano had been here for 8 years he knew the guys, Rex was here for 6+ before getting the position , those 2 grew into the organization prior dean only had 3 years not an excuse but a fact so my voice of reason here is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater folks , yes its a bad storm right now it feels like the football = of Sandy but guess what the eye went north we may have some down trees(players) but its not over we had 2 weeks to clean up after it it may take the rest of the season , I don't care if we lose the playoffs , it might be best for us . But relax enjoy what we can , count it as a blessing . Remember 84-96 and this wont seem as bad , no football no ravens no colts no Bank , and no reason to cheer in the least .

[Ravenmann]

I have been thinking about this topic for quite sometime now. I have to generally agree that John H. has been riding along on the backs of the real leaders on this team since his arrival. When he was originally picked out of thin air by our owner, as a second choice for one of the best coaching jobs in all of football, John H. sometimes gave me the feeling that he was over his head in his leadership skills. I thought John H. was somewhat timid when initially taking control of this team, and our strong alpha type cooridnators in Rex Ryan and Cam Cameron. I often wondered if John H. could hang, and ultimately lead these two strong ego maniacs. John H. was fortunate in the beginning, because he still had Ray Lewis, and a bevy of other talented players and coaches to help him acclimate to his new team. But now, as his tenure grows, and alot of his talented leaders are not in the mix, this team is getting wobbly. This is when the Ravens need REAL LEADERSHIP and direction, and I just don't feel it coming from our head coach. Our offense is inconsistent, we can't protect our quarterback. Our defense plays soft and confused. We can't apply pressure to opposing quarterbacks, and we can't stop the run. Post game comments from our head coach now have become redundant and boring. Yes, were still winning, but barely... I think this team is on the brink of collapse if our head coach can't take control, and become a LEADER OF MEN. John seems like a real nice guy, who projects a good face for the franchise, but he's looking more and more like a coach who's losing the respect of his coaching staff and players. This team needs a head coach who not only yell's at the game officials on Sunday, but who also holds his coaches and players accountable during the week. This team is crying out for leadership. It's time to man up and lead John H.

[dscola1974]

[quote name='Ravenmann' timestamp='1352089852' post='1210942']
I have been thinking about this topic for quite sometime now. I have to generally agree that John H. has been riding along on the backs of the real leaders on this team since his arrival. When he was originally picked out of thin air by our owner, as a second choice for one of the best coaching jobs in all of football, John H. sometimes gave me the feeling that he was over his head in his leadership skills. I thought John H. was somewhat timid when initially taking control of this team, and our strong alpha type cooridnators in Rex Ryan and Cam Cameron. I often wondered if John H. could hang, and ultimately lead these two strong ego maniacs. John H. was fortunate in the beginning, because he still had Ray Lewis, and a bevy of other talented players and coaches. But now, as his tenure grows, and alot of his talented leaders are not in the mix, this team is getting wobbly. This is when the Ravens need REAL LEADERSHIP and direction, and I just don't feel it coming from our head coach. Our offense is inconsistent, we can't protect our quarterback. Our defense plays soft and confused. We can't apply pressure to opposing quarterbacks, and we can't stop the run. Post game comments from our head coach now have become redundant and boring. Yes, were still winning, but barely... I think this team is on the brink of collapse if our head coach can't take control, and become a LEADER OF MEN. John seems like a real nice guy, who projects a good face for the franchise, but he's looking more and more like a coach who's losing respect from his coaching staff and players. This team needs a head coach who not only yell's at the game officials on Sunday, but who also holds his coaches and players accountable during the week. This team is crying out for leadership. It's time to man up and lead John H.
[/quote]

We're 6-2 dude. Chill out!

[mhead66]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1351967184' post='1208190']
So..... What you're saying is Ozzie whiffed because a guy he took in the 2nd round isn't performing the way a 2nd overall and a 7th overall pick is?


Holy crap dude. That's really, really weak.

So Ozzie sucks at drafting because the team doesn't get to pick 2nd? You do realize how teams do that, right? Would you prefer that?
[/quote]

Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy?

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned...

Who do you blame?

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1351894404' post='1207905']
In an interview last Thanksgiving day the reporter asked both John and Jim what they learned from their dad. John said he learned to compete. Jim said he learned to win. I think that is pretty telling. I like John but I think his brother is the tougher of the two.
[/quote]

Jim Harbaugh is completely insane. His team is going to unravel just like the Jets.

[Free Agent]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351891292' post='1207884']
Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction. I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls.
[/quote]

I find it funny that you call out Harbs for a lack of leadership, when his leadership skills were the very reason that he was brought to Baltimore as Billick's replacement.

Harbs isnt an offensive or defensive guru that someone like Belicheck or Payton is, but he is a good leader and a good motivator, thus he is a good head coach.

Oh, and he's put the Ravens in the playoffs the last four years, that's pretty cool too.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1352170147' post='1211869']
Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy?

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned...

Who do you blame?
[/quote]
Upshaw in the first 6 weeks was the only guy who could hold his edge and shed a block to make a play. He's going to be fine, he does exactly what our scheme wants from the SAM spot.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']
I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death ( ) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but comparing Upshaw to aldon Smith and Von Miller Rookie seasons is really fair because Smith was purely a situational pass rusher on defense filled with run-stuffers he was basically told run full speed anytime your in. Von Miller was also mostly an edge-rusher although he played the run well too, he had Dummervil a great sack artist opposite of him drawing double teams. Upshaw has played opposite of Kruger and an injured McPhee. I will admit I was hopeful that upshaw would get 8 sacks this season lofty expectations by me. Just felt that Suggs would play the role of Boulware and Upshaw would be the role Rookie Suggs.

Zibby got his playing time but in the end the Free Agent pick up by Ozzie, Pollard gave the defense more of an edge as a hard-hitter.
Gooden - just never stayed healthy to develop as a player ( that's just misfortune )

Cody - is average and inconsistent and I'm not sure why he's not a monster run-stuffer the way he seemed in college.


It should also be pointed out that the draft is basically a crap shoot some high picks pan out while many don't and some late round picks or undrafted players become Studs, Also over the years we have had many Defensive Coaches leave and become HC or DC at other teams and each time this has occurred they purge our team of players and assistant coaches to help start their defenses this goes all the way back to Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Pagano now too. Our depth has greatly been affected by that over the years.

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1352170147' post='1211869']


Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy?

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned...

Who do you blame?
[/quote]

As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1352177914' post='1211955']


As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?
[/quote]
Yeah, it isn't oz's fault at all. If anything, it's just ppl not working hard, being young, or misfortune. Jimmy will get better, he shut down Austin and has looked decent. I think we have a pro bowler on our hands. Sure he gave up a long bomb to Walter... The game was over anyway, he shouldn't have been on the field. Cleveland is Clevland.... Cary just flat out sucks. Upshaw is gonna be a steal, dude is a damn good run stiffer. Cody, work ethic is low, could be a good NT. needs discipline (Pees doesn't provide that). I think kindle is an all pro if he stays healthy. Oher, starting LT, I'll give u Kruger, situational pass rusher at best, Smith is almost an elite WR, Reid looked good, Doss is a project, Streeter could be a monster.

[Dfence4champs2052]

I agree with the two major points in here. Ozzie should be held accountable for his picks when they don't pan out just like when they do. And Harbaugh needs to do something to focus the team. Why the offense can't find consistency and the defense can't stop traffic at a crosswalk is beyond me, but something needs to be done. Who as a Ravens fan can honestly say they believe we can sweep the steelers again with our past three performances????

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351891292' post='1207884']
Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction. I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls.
[/quote]Well...Sean Payton will be available at season's end...Just a thought.

[AsianRice]

[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1352227367' post='1212205']
Well...Sean Payton will be available at season's end...Just a thought.
[/quote]
I think he'll want to replace Harbs than Cam....

I hope Sean makes me eat my words......

[The Raven]

Just read that Saints owner wants to give Sean Payton an extension. Sorry fellas, but he's not coming here.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1398331-sean-payton-and-saints-reportedly-allowed-to-work-out-extension-by-nfl"]http://bleacherrepor...xtension-by-nfl[/url]

[bpytnjr58]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352231534' post='1212261']
Just read that Saints owner wants to give Sean Payton an extension. Sorry fellas, but he's not coming here.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1398331-sean-payton-and-saints-reportedly-allowed-to-work-out-extension-by-nfl"]http://bleacherrepor...xtension-by-nfl[/url]
[/quote] Oh well...It would have been marvelous.

[mhead66]

[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1352177914' post='1211955']
As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?
[/quote]

I didn't ignore you. I said that you put words in my mouth... and you still are.

I didn't say:
1. Upshaw should be expected to get 12 sacks. I said he should be an impact player, as all first rounders should be.
2. I didn't say I wanted the Ravens to pick 2nd overall... you think that I said Upshaw should be Von Miller - who was a 2nd overall pick - and so YOU made the 2nd overall pick connection, not me. Again, words in my mouth.
3. I didn't say Upshaw wouldn't develop into an impact player... but 1/2 sack in 1/2 a season from a front-7 player is not impact.

I also discussed Kindle and Jimmy Smith... Kindle is on the practice squad, yet Mr. Irrelevant (just below your post) said he's an "all pro if he stays healthy." And you think I'M delusional!

The crux of my discussion is based on one question: the Ravens are 28th on Defense, and 30th vs. the run. I'm not negative, whining or named Nancy... but I still wait for the answer: who do you blame, and how does it get fixed?

This may be Ed Reed's last season in purple, and RayRay might be done: Do you think they can get the Ring, with a 28th ranked Defense?

Me neither.

And, like I said before, the first half of our schedule was (by far) the easier half...

[PurpleReign92]

As fan I understand that our team has no direction our defense cannot contain offenses and we just need to hang on to life to our record in the reg season and go high octane in the post..

[PDO]

We're 6-2.

Yes... it hasn't been pretty.

Yes... we need to get better.

.... but what the hell people?

4 years in a row in the playoffs. 4 years with at least one playoff win. Two AFC Championship Games.

Whose been better than us in the last 4 years in the AFC?

Pats, Steelers and MAYBE the Colts.

So many teams would KILL for the likes of Ozzie and Harbaugh.

Time to take a deep breath.

Can you lose the Superbowl in October? Hell yes.

But you certainly can't win it.

This team hasn't peaked yet. Guys like Suggs, Upshaw, Smith, Osemele and Ngata can all be argued to be better players as the season goes on.

6-2, with a great chance of moving to 7-2. Probably 3 wins away from clinching a playoff spot.

Let's get to the dance and see what happens, but lets not forget 90% of the league would kill to be our in position.

Enough of the doom of gloom. We got whooped in a game where everything went wrong and we lost a tight one in large part due to a terrible call in Week 2. That's it. If we split with Pittsburgh we'll almost assuredly win the division and likely have the #2 seed. We could easily be tied with Houston after this week.

The negativity around here is stunning.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1352268111' post='1212614']
We're 6-2.

Yes... it hasn't been pretty.

Yes... we need to get better.

.... but what the hell people?

4 years in a row in the playoffs. 4 years with at least one playoff win. Two AFC Championship Games.

Whose been better than us in the last 4 years in the AFC?

Pats, Steelers and MAYBE the Colts.

So many teams would KILL for the likes of Ozzie and Harbaugh.

Time to take a deep breath.

Can you lose the Superbowl in October? Hell yes.

But you certainly can't win it.

This team hasn't peaked yet. Guys like Suggs, Upshaw, Smith, Osemele and Ngata can all be argued to be better players as the season goes on.

6-2, with a great chance of moving to 7-2. Probably 3 wins away from clinching a playoff spot.

Let's get to the dance and see what happens, but lets not forget 90% of the league would kill to be our in position.

Enough of the doom of gloom. We got whooped in a game where everything went wrong and we lost a tight one in large part due to a terrible call in Week 2. That's it. I[b]f we split with Pittsburgh we'll almost assuredly win the division and likely have the #2 seed. [/b] We could easily be tied with Houston after this week.

The negativity around here is stunning.
[/quote]

I think that's pushing it quite a bit. We still have the Mannings, a west coast trip to SD in between Pit games and potential trap games @Wsh and Cin.

[PDO]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1352269294' post='1212615']
I think that's pushing it quite a bit. We still have the Mannings, a west coast trip to SD in between Pit games and potential trap games @Wsh and Cin.
[/quote]

And Pittsburgh would still have a game VS SD, Trap games @ Cle and @ DAL along with two division games against Cle and Cincy to close the year where they would have to hold serve.

And a one game lead.

It's not like the Steelers will run the schedule, they lost so many early for a reason, and they're very banged up. Wouldn't be a shock to see them lose any of @ Cle, @ Dal, VS SD or VS Cincy.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='PDO' timestamp='1352270268' post='1212618']
And Pittsburgh would still have a game VS SD, Trap games @ Cle and @ DAL along with two division games against Cle and Cincy to close the year where they would have to hold serve.

And a one game lead.

It's not like the Steelers will run the schedule, they lost so many early for a reason, and they're very banged up. Wouldn't be a shock to see them lose any of @ Cle, @ Dal, VS SD or VS Cincy.
[/quote]

Yes, but splitting with Pit would only make us one game up in the division if we're 9-3 and they're 8-4. We could lose more of the other games than them, and/or lose the tiebreaker somehow. Point is, we're not out of the woods with a split.

[Ngata Chance]

[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1352257563' post='1212578']


I didn't ignore you. I said that you put words in my mouth... and you still are.

I didn't say:
1. Upshaw should be expected to get 12 sacks. I said he should be an impact player, as all first rounders should be.
2. I didn't say I wanted the Ravens to pick 2nd overall... you think that I said Upshaw should be Von Miller - who was a 2nd overall pick - and so YOU made the 2nd overall pick connection, not me. Again, words in my mouth.
3. I didn't say Upshaw wouldn't develop into an impact player... but 1/2 sack in 1/2 a season from a front-7 player is not impact.

I also discussed Kindle and Jimmy Smith... Kindle is on the practice squad, yet Mr. Irrelevant (just below your post) said he's an "all pro if he stays healthy." And you think I'M delusional!

The crux of my discussion is based on one question: the Ravens are 28th on Defense, and 30th vs. the run. I'm not negative, whining or named Nancy... but I still wait for the answer: who do you blame, and how does it get fixed?

This may be Ed Reed's last season in purple, and RayRay might be done: Do you think they can get the Ring, with a 28th ranked Defense?

Me neither.

And, like I said before, the first half of our schedule was (by far) the easier half...
[/quote]

Holy dear sweet lord.

1. Upshaw isn't a first rounder. Quicker you get that through your head, easier this gets.
2. You compared Upshaw to Miller. You did. I told you he was a 2nd overall pick, and that comparing the two was foolish. Do you understand that? Should I type more slowly? I was pointing out that if you want a guy like Miller, you have to pick 2nd. I then suggested ways of getting that pick. If you need help, just ask.
3. What part of Not a pass rusher don't you get? He has progressed admirably in his role this year. Let me guess... JJ didn't put up sack numbers like Suggs so he sucked, right? He sets the edge, and is doing what we need, and getting better every game. For a 2nd rounder (yes 2nd) that's good.

You keep throwing out defensive rankings. Ok. Last year the Giants were ranked 27th on defence. I'm hoping you can do the math.

You're not negative or whining? That's a scream. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time. Keep it up.