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nextgen_RavensFan

A team without a leader

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Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction. I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351891292' post='1207884']
Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

[b]I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction.[/b] I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls[b].[/b]
[/quote]
I believe HC don't have the power to fire anyone; he can place a vote for it which sometimes changes the outcome of the situation cuz the top man, Ozzie will clearly listen to the HC about hiring and firing. However, the final decision is always Ozzie or Steve if he ever steps in.

Right now we don't have personel to replace Pees, but we do have backup to replace Cam anytime.

I don't think our team will make any 360 move because of bad performances and still maintaining top race. We will ride good and bad times with Cam and Pees until the end of the season unless we pull out winless Detroit or Panthers back in the day.
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you made all the right points .. i dont think harbaugh ever truelly had or has any control , seems more and more like relied on the veteran players in the locker room , and he just came in and rode the coat tails of a pretty good organization .. i know the guy has " lead" our team to the playoffs every year but are we sure hes the one leading ?
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Agree with some but not all of what you said. I think Harbaugh is a more behind the scenes guy as far as criticism towards his players and coaches (not named Cam). Regardless of what we've seem as Suggs has said the Ravens have been a 2nd half team in terms of how they perform midway through the the season. I think the defense improves but still concerned that the only consistency on offense is its inconsistentcy.
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In an interview last Thanksgiving day the reporter asked both John and Jim what they learned from their dad. John said he learned to compete. Jim said he learned to win. I think that is pretty telling. I like John but I think his brother is the tougher of the two.
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Harbs made plenty of changes in 2008, but that is the last time I can remember. Everything else was Ozzie.
Harbaugh needs to tell Cam and Pees to stop the bull, and seize some control.
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again,
we dont know what goes on behind closed doors. We dont know what Harbs does in team meetings and coaches meetings.
Lets not pretend we do know.
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More senseless drivel. I dont understand how anyone can be critical of Harbaugh after his proven track record with this team. First it's "oh well Harbaugh doesnt call plays so he must not be doing anything" now your criticizing because he doesnt call out his coaches or players publicly?

This just sounds like fans feeling awfully entitled. If you think the HC and the rest of coaching staff doesnt do everything they can to make the Ravens the best team they can you are way off target.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351901997' post='1207975']
More senseless drivel. I dont understand how anyone can be critical of Harbaugh after his proven track record with this team. First it's "oh well Harbaugh doesnt call plays so he must not be doing anything" now your criticizing because he doesnt call out his coaches or players publicly?

This just sounds like fans feeling awfully entitled. If you think the HC and the rest of coaching staff doesnt do everything they can to make the Ravens the best team they can you are way off target.
[/quote]

ding-ding-ding
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351901997' post='1207975']
More senseless drivel. I dont understand how anyone can be critical of Harbaugh after his proven track record with this team. First it's "oh well Harbaugh doesnt call plays so he must not be doing anything" now your criticizing because he doesnt call out his coaches or players publicly?

This just sounds like fans feeling awfully entitled. If you think the HC and the rest of coaching staff doesnt do everything they can to make the Ravens the best team they can you are way off target.
[/quote]

Thanks. This summarizes my thoughts in a kinder way than I intended.

nextgen_RavensFan, why so negative all the time?
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I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death (:)) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']
I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death ( :)) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
[/quote]

Sorry, mhead66, but I think you're completely incorrect in putting the blame of those players' lack of success on Ozzie. Look at each one of them and tell me honestly; wouldn't you have drafted them all in the same spot as well? They all played exceptionally well in college. That is an indisputable fact.

Oh, and to say Upshaw hasn't made an impact is just laughable. You must not be watching him play. He's easily one of our best defenders right now. I'd put him in our Top 3 right now behind Ngata and Suggs.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351917954' post='1208049']
Sorry, mhead66, but I think you're completely incorrect in putting the blame of those players' lack of success on Ozzie. Look at each one of them and tell me honestly; wouldn't you have drafted them all in the same spot as well? They all played exceptionally well in college. That is an indisputable fact.

Oh, and to say Upshaw hasn't made an impact is just laughable. You must not be watching him play. He's easily one of our best defenders right now. I'd put him in our Top 3 right now behind Ngata and Suggs.
[/quote]
You're blaming the players for the fact that the Ravens FO drafted them so high, instead of the FO which drafted them? You draft a player based on an evaluation of his talent and potential, and take a chance. Sometimes it works out, other times it fizzles. But you can't give credit - "[b]In Ozzie We Trust[/b]" - when he succeeds, and blame the players - and not the drafter - when he doesn't. Sure, the player has to excel - but it's up to the FO to evaluate, and the ability to judge college players rests with the scouts - but Ozzie makes the decisions. If they consistently fizzle over a prolonged period, you must identify the problem.

And I'm NOT putting down Upshaw - but we've got 12 sacks (we're 25th in the NFL) and are 24th vs. the Pass... and Upshaw has 1/2 sack. We need pressure on the QB - and last year, Von Miller had 11.5 sacks, Aldon Smith 14 sacks. This is J.J. Watts' 2nd year, and he's in the discussion for league MVP. A young pass-rusher can dominate, in terms of sacks / pressures, and Courtney hasn't. Sure, he's not been a liability, but we needed a pass-rusher, not a solid, all-around, competent OLB - we had that in JJ... Again, it's not a put-down of Upshaw, but our youth on defense is a problem, and it doesn't bode well for our future.
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1351901461' post='1207970']
Can we keep the doom and gloom until after Sunday, at least?
[/quote]

Now now let's not get ahead of ourselves, no doom and gloom after Sunday... we'll be at 6-2 going for 7-2... and read topics like D has shown improvement and O was in the game etc happy happy thoughts
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Hindsight is 20/20. Every time.
Each and every draft pick is a gamble. You cant deny that.
You cant blame Ozzie for the end result.
Unless he has an account with Miss Cleo, he is just as unable to predict the future as the rest of us.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']
I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death ( :)) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
[/quote]
About Upshaw.. he is NOT a pass rush specialist and you need to understand it. He was described as an elite run stopper with some passrush skills. It was noted again and again that he doesn't have elite explosiveness and he's not athletic enough to be a 10+ sacks kind of guy. Take that, combine it with a d-line that does nothing and no real threat on the other side + Pees = no sacks.
But to say he doesn't have any impact.. he's probably the ONLY player except Ngata (and not Suggs) to play the run. I look for him every play, he's a brick wall.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351919298' post='1208052']
You're blaming the players for the fact that the Ravens FO drafted them so high, instead of the FO which drafted them? You draft a player based on an evaluation of his talent and potential, and take a chance. Sometimes it works out, other times it fizzles. But you can't give credit - "[b]In Ozzie We Trust[/b]" - when he succeeds, and blame the players - and not the drafter - when he doesn't. Sure, the player has to excel - but it's up to the FO to evaluate, and the ability to judge college players rests with the scouts - but Ozzie makes the decisions. If they consistently fizzle over a prolonged period, you must identify the problem.

And I'm NOT putting down Upshaw - but we've got 12 sacks (we're 25th in the NFL) and are 24th vs. the Pass... and Upshaw has 1/2 sack. We need pressure on the QB - and last year, Von Miller had 11.5 sacks, Aldon Smith 14 sacks. This is J.J. Watts' 2nd year, and he's in the discussion for league MVP. A young pass-rusher can dominate, in terms of sacks / pressures, and Courtney hasn't. Sure, he's not been a liability, but we needed a pass-rusher, not a solid, all-around, competent OLB - we had that in JJ... Again, it's not a put-down of Upshaw, but our youth on defense is a problem, and it doesn't bode well for our future.
[/quote]

Oh goodness! You must not have read my post at all! Based on what they all did in college, Ozzie was justified in taking them where he drafted them. Based on their college performance, they were drafted right where they should have been. It his not his fault that their growth and development halted. You simply can't tell me that you wouldn't have drafted those players at the same spot Ozzie. You can't tell me that it's all Ozzie's fault they didn't pan out.

Upshaw has done well rushing the passer. He doesn't have many sacks at all, but he's done pretty well. As far as pass rushing goes, he has picked up where JJ left off. There has been no drop off in the pass rush from JJ to Upshaw. Some would even argue that Upshaw is better. The youth on our defense is a problem and doesn't bode well for the future? That's a really [u]stupid[/u] statement. Guess what? All those players are going to get experience and develop into better players. Eventually, they won't be so youthful. They'll become better players.
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I think the fans have become spoiled by winning and we are a victim of our own success. When you draft in the high 20's year after year it begins to show. Coaching may also play a part, except for Cam, our coaching staff gets raided every year. The Ravens are structured to compete every year, like the Patriots and the Steelers, but in the last 5 years each of those teams missed the playoffs and re-loaded. I'm not ready to throw in the towel at 5-2 , part of all the negativity from fans is the team lost before the bye and we have had 2 weeks to relive the worst game I have seen the Ravens play in years.
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[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1351940762' post='1208074']
Now now let's not get ahead of ourselves, no doom and gloom after Sunday... we'll be at 6-2 going for 7-2... and read topics like D has shown improvement and O was in the game etc happy happy thoughts
[/quote]

Haha exactly. I'm just ready to get excited for a Ravens game after two weeks without it.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']





Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

[/quote]



So..... What you're saying is Ozzie whiffed because a guy he took in the 2nd round isn't performing the way a 2nd overall and a 7th overall pick is?


Holy crap dude. That's really, really weak.

So Ozzie sucks at drafting because the team doesn't get to pick 2nd? You do realize how teams do that, right? Would you prefer that?
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[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1351967184' post='1208190']




So..... What you're saying is Ozzie whiffed because a guy he took in the 2nd round isn't performing the way a 2nd overall and a 7th overall pick is?


Holy crap dude. That's really, really weak.

So Ozzie sucks at drafting because the team doesn't get to pick 2nd? You do realize how teams do that, right? Would you prefer that?
[/quote]

I think both of you make good points. We cant expect every draft pick to be a superstar, but at the same time the lack of impactful players on defense is somewhat alarming. There have been a lot of misses and tbh we have invested more picks on offense and have gotten some really nice players as a result.

I've been saying for a while now we really need a defensive heavy draft that addresses the Dline as well as ILB.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351971906' post='1208212']
I think both of you make good points. We cant expect every draft pick to be a superstar, but at the same time the lack of impactful players on defense is somewhat alarming. There have been a lot of misses and tbh we have invested more picks on offense and have gotten some really nice players as a result.

I've been saying for a while now [b]we really need a defensive heavy draft that addresses the Dline as well as ILB.[/b]
[/quote]
I think that is going to be heavily addressed next year draft; we really need to go back to the old style, pure defense since we have young future players on the offense already.

PS: And we need to have really solid O-Line.....
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The kindle pic is hard to say he whiffed on. Was he a bust? Yes, but because of what looks to be a career ending digger he took down a flight of stairs. No way to predict that. And, if jimmy smith turns the corner this season, instantly Ozzie looks like a great GM still. Season isn't halfway yet. Hopefully the team stays focused and goes the distance. I got $200 on them in Vegas at 13-1, so I am rooting hard.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']
I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death ( :)) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
[/quote] Well I can tell you that I agree with everything you've said. Ozzie has failed mightily the past few years in drafting, but because of his record before, everybody gives him a pass. It's time for everybody to accept the truth. Ozzie has not done much right in the past four years. MOST, not all, of his picks have been busts. We can now add Jimmy Smith to that list. All you have to do is compare him to McAlister who started his rookie year and was very successful for a number of years before he ruined his career with the team. SMith has been with the team two years now and still looks lost. Kindle, D Cody, T Cody all failures that Ozzie picked, and the list goes on.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351971906' post='1208212']
I think both of you make good points. We cant expect every draft pick to be a superstar, but at the same time the lack of impactful players on defense is somewhat alarming. There have been a lot of misses and tbh we have invested more picks on offense and have gotten some really nice players as a result.

I've been saying for a while now we really need a defensive heavy draft that addresses the Dline as well as ILB.
[/quote] A lot more misses in recent years.
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[quote name='blazeon32' timestamp='1351985061' post='1208318']
Well I can tell you that I agree with everything you've said. Ozzie has failed mightily the past few years in drafting, but because of his record before, everybody gives him a pass. It's time for everybody to accept the truth. Ozzie has not done much right in the past four years. MOST, not all, of his picks have been busts. We can now add Jimmy Smith to that list. All you have to do is compare him to McAlister who started his rookie year and was very successful for a number of years before he ruined his career with the team. SMith has been with the team two years now and still looks lost. Kindle, D Cody, T Cody all failures that Ozzie picked, and the list goes on.
[/quote]
I dont think he has really failed. We have done really well drafting for offense, but yeah on defense its been bad. Besides Webb, no real difference makers. Upshaw looks like a good pick but most of the others are not even starter quality.
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I am assuming some people here want a GM who can correctly and accurately predict the future.
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[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351901997' post='1207975']
More senseless drivel.
[/quote]
No kidding. you'd think these guys were talking about the Jets.
[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1351996485' post='1208401']
I think Smith will be fine given more playing time.
[/quote]
Agreed. And complaining about Upshaw? Can't begin to comment on that.
One. More. Sleep.
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For the guys complaining about Ozzie's draft skills..let's review. How would you determine a good draft? 2-3 starters,maybe couple of good back ups?
2012 draft - Only half a season,but we have Upshaw (soon to be a starter), K.O(Starter),Pierce(decent back up) and a project in Gino. 2 starters here.
2011 - Jimmy(Not a shutdown,but a starting caliber),Torrey(probowl caliber starter),McPhee( Starter,hindered by a knee injury.And trust me,it sure slows you down). Project in Doss. 3 starters.
2010 - Pitta(starter),Harewood(should be starting),Cody&Dickson(used to start).
2009 - Oher(starter),Kruger(situational pass rusher),Webb(all pro).
Combine that with some good UDFAs and Ozzie is the boss. ALL the defensive players were great pre Pees.
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Does Jimmy count as a starting caliber corner? He couldn't beat Cary, who is solid but slightly above average if that.

Not bashing Ozzie or Jimmy, I think he'll be great one day and I trust in Ozzie. Just looking at your arguments.
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guys honestly this doom and gloom is my schtick please stop making me be the voice of reason its not me , but here goes.

One I think you guys are being hard on ozzie because we have had winning seasons and others have used the draft to get us in this position , I agree thats what we could do if we had a losing season to pitt or NE but I think its poor sportsmanship. But lets take a look at this for a minute at the last draft only 2 lbs taken that we targeted went to rivals , Both are injured . So thats actualy a plus for Upshaw. Ozzie could not have foreseen the departing of most of our D Line but he can rectify it this draft or FAP . but what I will say is Pees may have been rushed into this position, Pagano had been here for 8 years he knew the guys, Rex was here for 6+ before getting the position , those 2 grew into the organization prior dean only had 3 years not an excuse but a fact so my voice of reason here is don't throw the baby out with the bathwater folks , yes its a bad storm right now it feels like the football = of Sandy but guess what the eye went north we may have some down trees(players) but its not over we had 2 weeks to clean up after it it may take the rest of the season , I don't care if we lose the playoffs , it might be best for us . But relax enjoy what we can , count it as a blessing . Remember 84-96 and this wont seem as bad , no football no ravens no colts no Bank , and no reason to cheer in the least .
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I have been thinking about this topic for quite sometime now. I have to generally agree that John H. has been riding along on the backs of the real leaders on this team since his arrival. When he was originally picked out of thin air by our owner, as a second choice for one of the best coaching jobs in all of football, John H. sometimes gave me the feeling that he was over his head in his leadership skills. I thought John H. was somewhat timid when initially taking control of this team, and our strong alpha type cooridnators in Rex Ryan and Cam Cameron. I often wondered if John H. could hang, and ultimately lead these two strong ego maniacs. John H. was fortunate in the beginning, because he still had Ray Lewis, and a bevy of other talented players and coaches to help him acclimate to his new team. But now, as his tenure grows, and alot of his talented leaders are not in the mix, this team is getting wobbly. This is when the Ravens need REAL LEADERSHIP and direction, and I just don't feel it coming from our head coach. Our offense is inconsistent, we can't protect our quarterback. Our defense plays soft and confused. We can't apply pressure to opposing quarterbacks, and we can't stop the run. Post game comments from our head coach now have become redundant and boring. Yes, were still winning, but barely... I think this team is on the brink of collapse if our head coach can't take control, and become a LEADER OF MEN. John seems like a real nice guy, who projects a good face for the franchise, but he's looking more and more like a coach who's losing the respect of his coaching staff and players. This team needs a head coach who not only yell's at the game officials on Sunday, but who also holds his coaches and players accountable during the week. This team is crying out for leadership. It's time to man up and lead John H.
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[quote name='Ravenmann' timestamp='1352089852' post='1210942']
I have been thinking about this topic for quite sometime now. I have to generally agree that John H. has been riding along on the backs of the real leaders on this team since his arrival. When he was originally picked out of thin air by our owner, as a second choice for one of the best coaching jobs in all of football, John H. sometimes gave me the feeling that he was over his head in his leadership skills. I thought John H. was somewhat timid when initially taking control of this team, and our strong alpha type cooridnators in Rex Ryan and Cam Cameron. I often wondered if John H. could hang, and ultimately lead these two strong ego maniacs. John H. was fortunate in the beginning, because he still had Ray Lewis, and a bevy of other talented players and coaches. But now, as his tenure grows, and alot of his talented leaders are not in the mix, this team is getting wobbly. This is when the Ravens need REAL LEADERSHIP and direction, and I just don't feel it coming from our head coach. Our offense is inconsistent, we can't protect our quarterback. Our defense plays soft and confused. We can't apply pressure to opposing quarterbacks, and we can't stop the run. Post game comments from our head coach now have become redundant and boring. Yes, were still winning, but barely... I think this team is on the brink of collapse if our head coach can't take control, and become a LEADER OF MEN. John seems like a real nice guy, who projects a good face for the franchise, but he's looking more and more like a coach who's losing respect from his coaching staff and players. This team needs a head coach who not only yell's at the game officials on Sunday, but who also holds his coaches and players accountable during the week. This team is crying out for leadership. It's time to man up and lead John H.
[/quote]

We're 6-2 dude. Chill out!
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[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1351967184' post='1208190']
So..... What you're saying is Ozzie whiffed because a guy he took in the 2nd round isn't performing the way a 2nd overall and a 7th overall pick is?


Holy crap dude. That's really, really weak.

So Ozzie sucks at drafting because the team doesn't get to pick 2nd? You do realize how teams do that, right? Would you prefer that?
[/quote]

Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy? :)

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned... ;)

Who do you blame?
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[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1351894404' post='1207905']
In an interview last Thanksgiving day the reporter asked both John and Jim what they learned from their dad. John said he learned to compete. Jim said he learned to win. I think that is pretty telling. I like John but I think his brother is the tougher of the two.
[/quote]

Jim Harbaugh is completely insane. His team is going to unravel just like the Jets.
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351891292' post='1207884']
Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction. I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls.
[/quote]

I find it funny that you call out Harbs for a lack of leadership, when his leadership skills were the very reason that he was brought to Baltimore as Billick's replacement.

Harbs isnt an offensive or defensive guru that someone like Belicheck or Payton is, but he is a good leader and a good motivator, thus he is a good head coach.

Oh, and he's put the Ravens in the playoffs the last four years, that's pretty cool too.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1352170147' post='1211869']
Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy? :)

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned... ;)

Who do you blame?
[/quote]
Upshaw in the first 6 weeks was the only guy who could hold his edge and shed a block to make a play. He's going to be fine, he does exactly what our scheme wants from the SAM spot.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1351917673' post='1208047']
I'm not sure you can say we suffer from a lack of leadership from the coaching staff - remember, under Billick, the lack of discipline? It WAS the inmates running the asylum, and I think Billick was hesitant about asserting much control - especially of the defense, and especially when Ryan was here. There was a bit of open defiance, at times - Chris McAlister, for example - and I think Billick pretty much focused on the offense, and gave the defensive coaches lots of discretion, regarding plays, who played, etc. The lack of discipline showed itself by the huge number of penalties we incurred.

I don't see that under Harbaugh. MY criticism is that I don't see a specific "footprint" named Harbaugh on this team - we've lost a bit of our identity. The Offense can't decide whether it wants to be New England (focusing on the pass) or San Francisco (forcing opponents to take away the run). The Defense - so long our identity - has struggled signficantly. We're 30th vs. the run, 28th overall, on defense.

I think we're uneasy because our identity has been - for so long - a tough, punch-you-in-the-mouth, physical team, that imposed its will... and our defense is getting pushed around. Our leader - #52 - is MIA. Harbaugh hasn't figured out what to do, because it's not an easy fix...

Personally - IMO - you're barking up the wrong tree. [b]I think our problem is Ozzie[/b].

Before everyone negs me to death ( :)) let me point out something: Over the last 5 drafts, we've drafted 8 defensive players in the first 3 rounds of the draft. 8 players that - because of their draft status - should be impact starters, or at least good, solid contributors. The draft is the [b]bedrock[/b] from which a team is built, and the defense has suffered because Ozzie has largely whiffed on some of these selections:

1. Courtney Upshaw (2nd) - yes, it's 1/2 way through his rookie season, but he has 1/2 sack in 7 games - and compare him to Aldon Smith, Von Miller, or other pass rushers. Not to knock or judge Upshaw (yet) but he hasn't made an impact at all... yet.

2. Jimmy Smith (1st) - Still young, but struggling mightily - and, for a highly touted 1st rounder, he hasn't excelled. If he'd been a 5th rounder, no one would complain, but he was a 1st.

3. Sergio Kindle (2nd) - Never made it - sure, the fall down the steps did him in, but... he's on the practice squad, and he was our 1st selection 3 years ago.

4. Terrence Cody (2nd) - Another average player - disappointly so, for a 2nd rounder. Platoons and can make a play, but isn't consistently dominating, at all.

5. Paul Kruger (2nd) - Starting for the first time in 4 years, he has 1 1/2 sacks in 7 games and 8 sacks in 4 years. A true disappointment.

6. Lardarius Webb (3rd) - A Homerun... but he's injured - a large reason we're struggling.

7. Tavares Gooden (3rd) - Gone.

8. Tom Zbikowski (3rd) - Gone.

One dominating player out of 8 picks in rounds 1-3, over the last 5 years. Yes, that's why our defense is struggling - our stars are aging (Reed, Lewis) and injured (T-Siz, Ngata)... and the reinforcements are lacking...

Sorry, Ozzie - you need some improvement.
[/quote]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but comparing Upshaw to aldon Smith and Von Miller Rookie seasons is really fair because Smith was purely a situational pass rusher on defense filled with run-stuffers he was basically told run full speed anytime your in. Von Miller was also mostly an edge-rusher although he played the run well too, he had Dummervil a great sack artist opposite of him drawing double teams. Upshaw has played opposite of Kruger and an injured McPhee. I will admit I was hopeful that upshaw would get 8 sacks this season lofty expectations by me. Just felt that Suggs would play the role of Boulware and Upshaw would be the role Rookie Suggs.

Zibby got his playing time but in the end the Free Agent pick up by Ozzie, Pollard gave the defense more of an edge as a hard-hitter.
Gooden - just never stayed healthy to develop as a player ( that's just misfortune )

Cody - is average and inconsistent and I'm not sure why he's not a monster run-stuffer the way he seemed in college.


It should also be pointed out that the draft is basically a crap shoot some high picks pan out while many don't and some late round picks or undrafted players become Studs, Also over the years we have had many Defensive Coaches leave and become HC or DC at other teams and each time this has occurred they purge our team of players and assistant coaches to help start their defenses this goes all the way back to Marvin Lewis, Mike Nolan, Rex Ryan, Pagano now too. Our depth has greatly been affected by that over the years.
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[quote name='mhead66' timestamp='1352170147' post='1211869']


Lol way to put words in my mouth.

So many people take it personal, when fans try to identify problems on our team... in an effort to fix them. Be CERTAIN Steve Bisciotti will do so... as he should.

How do YOU account for the fact that our defense is the 3rd worst in the NFL, despite playing 6 of our 8 games against teams with losing records, despite the fact that our 6 wins were against teams with a 17-32 record? Does that give you a warm-and-fuzzy? :)

No, I'm NOT dogging Courtney Upshaw. I'm also NOT dogging Ozzie Newsome - I'm trying to hold him accountable... Who do YOU hold responsible for our poor defensive showing?

I DID NOT say Upshaw should have 12 sacks... I said he should be an impact player, as a 1st-2nd round pick. Okay, I can accept that he's not intended to be a "pass-rushing" DLineman... then I'd question the position selected. IMO, pass rush is THE key to stopping Offenses, in these days of pass-happy Offenses. Just my opinion, but read some other threads on this forum... check out, "Avoiding the Obvious" thread. The discussion covers the fact that a 1st round pick - Jimmy Smith - is not playing at a starter level. A 2nd round pick at NT (Cody), along with a 2nd round DLine rookie and a (former) Pro-Bowl DL (Ngata), and we're 30th against the run. I'm not the only one who's concerned... ;)

Who do you blame?
[/quote]

As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?
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[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1352177914' post='1211955']


As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?
[/quote]
Yeah, it isn't oz's fault at all. If anything, it's just ppl not working hard, being young, or misfortune. Jimmy will get better, he shut down Austin and has looked decent. I think we have a pro bowler on our hands. Sure he gave up a long bomb to Walter... The game was over anyway, he shouldn't have been on the field. Cleveland is Clevland.... Cary just flat out sucks. Upshaw is gonna be a steal, dude is a damn good run stiffer. Cody, work ethic is low, could be a good NT. needs discipline (Pees doesn't provide that). I think kindle is an all pro if he stays healthy. Oher, starting LT, I'll give u Kruger, situational pass rusher at best, Smith is almost an elite WR, Reid looked good, Doss is a project, Streeter could be a monster.
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I agree with the two major points in here. Ozzie should be held accountable for his picks when they don't pan out just like when they do. And Harbaugh needs to do something to focus the team. Why the offense can't find consistency and the defense can't stop traffic at a crosswalk is beyond me, but something needs to be done. Who as a Ravens fan can honestly say they believe we can sweep the steelers again with our past three performances????
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[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351891292' post='1207884']
Does Harb's sound like a guy who has lost comtrol. LOL. He has been under fire for a couple of weeks now and i think that he is almost ready to admit he was riding on the defenses back the last 4 years and really has no idea how to fix the issues nor the [courage] to stand up and make the Offensive and Defensive Coordinators to make much needed changes.

Cam is now blaming Flacco for the lack of using Rice. Pee's Simply states that he knows the defense is lacking but never has an answer to try to fix it. Our team is lacking leaders from the top down. Suggs will try to be the field leader but that only goes so far. The once tough, hard hitting Ravens are now without a leader that has a back bone but one that is willing to settle for what is currently happening as he is in over his head.

I would ask anyone to name just one single time Harb's has stepped up and made a call to alter the teams direction. I cannot think of any. He lacks what his brother has and that is a fire to win and a fearless attitude to make the tough calls.
[/quote]Well...Sean Payton will be available at season's end...Just a thought.
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[quote name='bpytnjr58' timestamp='1352227367' post='1212205']
Well...Sean Payton will be available at season's end...Just a thought.
[/quote]
I think he'll want to replace Harbs than Cam....

I hope Sean makes me eat my words......
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Just read that Saints owner wants to give Sean Payton an extension. Sorry fellas, but he's not coming here.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1398331-sean-payton-and-saints-reportedly-allowed-to-work-out-extension-by-nfl"]http://bleacherrepor...xtension-by-nfl[/url]
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352231534' post='1212261']
Just read that Saints owner wants to give Sean Payton an extension. Sorry fellas, but he's not coming here.

[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1398331-sean-payton-and-saints-reportedly-allowed-to-work-out-extension-by-nfl"]http://bleacherrepor...xtension-by-nfl[/url]
[/quote] Oh well...It would have been marvelous.
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[quote name='Ngata Chance' timestamp='1352177914' post='1211955']
As another poster mentioned, we don't have the luxury of picking the highest impact guys available in the draft. I tried asking you if you knew how the Ravens can pick 2nd overall. You ignored me. So let me enlighten you.
Short of trading up, and giving up a huge amount to get 2nd overall (which Ozzie doesn't seem willing to do) the Ravens have to finish really, really poorly. If that's what you want then fill your boots, but might I suggest becoming a Browns fan?

You were the one to compare Upshaw to pass rushers. If you don't remember saying it, re read your post. Try to understand why you are ranting and raving before you start pointing fingers, okay? To say he isn't an impact player isn't totally accurate either. Remember the shoulder injury? Think that limits him at all? As for position selected, were we replacing Suggs with him? Or JJ? It seems like you're complaining about not getting a pass rusher when we already had one. He was meant to compliment Suggs, remember?
And to fault Ozzie for drafting Kindle is weak as well. The way you are complaining its like he fell down the stairs and then Ozzie drafted him. Relax.

Tommy Z, who was a backup to Ed Reed, and who did an admirable job backing him up when he was injured, was never going to start here while #20 played. Can you blame him for not resigning here, and going with Pagano? Yes he didn't play a lot here. But to say he's a bust is a stretch.

No, things aren't sunshine and rainbows right now. There are things that need to be worked on. But your anger, at Ozzie, and other Ravens fans, is misguided. Why would you live your life in such a negative frame of mind?

Why do I need to point fingers and blame someone? There are plenty of negative Nancy's on here filling thread after thread with non-stop whining and crying about how terrible life as a Ravens fan is already. Why wouldn't I try to inject some light and optimism instead?
[/quote]

I didn't ignore you. I said that you put words in my mouth... and you still are.

I didn't say:
1. Upshaw should be expected to get 12 sacks. I said he should be an impact player, as all first rounders should be.
2. I didn't say I wanted the Ravens to pick 2nd overall... you think that I said Upshaw should be Von Miller - who was a 2nd overall pick - and so YOU made the 2nd overall pick connection, not me. Again, words in my mouth.
3. I didn't say Upshaw wouldn't develop into an impact player... but 1/2 sack in 1/2 a season from a front-7 player is not impact.

I also discussed Kindle and Jimmy Smith... Kindle is on the practice squad, yet Mr. Irrelevant (just below your post) said he's an "all pro if he stays healthy." And you think I'M delusional! :)

The crux of my discussion is based on one question: the Ravens are 28th on Defense, and 30th vs. the run. I'm not negative, whining or named Nancy... ;) but I still wait for the answer: who do you blame, and how does it get fixed?

This may be Ed Reed's last season in purple, and RayRay might be done: Do you think they can get the Ring, with a 28th ranked Defense?

Me neither.

And, like I said before, the first half of our schedule was (by far) the easier half...
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As fan I understand that our team has no direction our defense cannot contain offenses and we just need to hang on to life to our record in the reg season and go high octane in the post..
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We're 6-2.

Yes... it hasn't been pretty.

Yes... we need to get better.

.... but what the hell people?

4 years in a row in the playoffs. 4 years with at least one playoff win. Two AFC Championship Games.

Whose been better than us in the last 4 years in the AFC?

Pats, Steelers and MAYBE the Colts.

So many teams would KILL for the likes of Ozzie and Harbaugh.

Time to take a deep breath.

Can you lose the Superbowl in October? Hell yes.

But you certainly can't win it.

This team hasn't peaked yet. Guys like Suggs, Upshaw, Smith, Osemele and Ngata can all be argued to be better players as the season goes on.

6-2, with a great chance of moving to 7-2. Probably 3 wins away from clinching a playoff spot.

Let's get to the dance and see what happens, but lets not forget 90% of the league would kill to be our in position.

Enough of the doom of gloom. We got whooped in a game where everything went wrong and we lost a tight one in large part due to a terrible call in Week 2. That's it. If we split with Pittsburgh we'll almost assuredly win the division and likely have the #2 seed. We could easily be tied with Houston after this week.

The negativity around here is stunning.
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