At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

[jaege]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352241118' post='1212422']
Sorry, but no. Since 2008 no one has more 4th quarter comebacks than Ryan. He is nearly flawless in 2 minute drills. I am not sure why you guys keep throwing this idea around that Ryan is not clutch but it is false. That final drive in the Panthers game has not been done by another QB in 20 years. And yeah, he has weapons now but in his rookie season when it was just him and Roddy and Roddy was covered he orchestrated comebacks involving meh receivers too.

You guys should stick to bashing him for his lack of playoff success because other than just being human and having bad days occasionally there is not much else.
[/quote]


[size=4]Wow. The Falcons beat the Panthers. woo hoo! Sorry if I sound underwhelmed. Try sweeping the Steelers at Heinz field, then you can talk. Whipping up on the Panthers or cub scouts or old grannies is nothing to brag on.[/size]

[Finally]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1352258116' post='1212581']
[size=4]Wow. The Falcons beat the Panthers. woo hoo! Sorry if I sound underwhelmed. Try sweeping the Steelers at Heinz field, then you can talk. Whipping up on the Panthers or cub scouts or old grannies is nothing to brag on.[/size]
[/quote]

So sorry. Did I not emphasize that Ryan has more 4th quarter comebacks than ANYONE in the league enough since 2008 enough? That includes Brady and the Manning brothers and not just against the Panthers. Add that to that how he is money on 3rd downs so please explain his lack of clutch to me.

I applaud Flacco for his success. It is a shame you can't return the favor. So very petty.

[redrum52]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352263847' post='1212605']


So sorry. Did I not emphasize that Ryan has more 4th quarter comebacks than ANYONE in the league enough since 2008 enough? That includes Brady and the Manning brothers and not just against the Panthers. Add that to that how he is money on 3rd downs so please explain his lack of clutch to me.

I applaud Flacco for his success. It is a shame you can't return the favor. So very petty.
[/quote]

People have a hard time around here admitting Flacco isn't what they want him to be or where he should be. Ill give it to Ryan on the mental part. If you could put Ryan's brain in Flaccos body would be a hell of a qb. I still say this in Flaccos defense, he's played tougher opposition(defensively) but it is what it is. I would like to see Joe with a new OC to see what he could do with someone competent. Ryan is having a great season but I still don't trust the Falcons til I see them in the playoffs.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352251424' post='1212535']


You mean the pass that made sports science and has been added to the curriculum for young QBs to study? Oh, okay. Go ahead and knock the other 18 4th quarter comebacks too or how he is routinely among the best 3rd down and any distance QBs in the league. Maybe take away from him that when the game is on the line and there is a chance is when he plays his absolute best. That is not even close to clutch, right?

Ryan is not perfect. He has his flaws. For instance if a defense has a good bead on his snap count, Matty Ice sometimes turns into Matty Deer in the Headlights. He gets rattled and makes a lot of mistakes.

I am the last person to want to have this debate but I am tired of you guys taking pot shots at him that are completely false. He has been clutch as a Falcon and he was clutch at Boston College. It is what he does.

I want you guys to like Flacco better. It is as it should be. I don't need Ryan to be better or worse than Flacco because I am sold on him just being him. I am pretty sold on Flacco too. Ryan and Flacco have distinguished themselves far above any other QB drafted since. Freeman might be another but it is hard to say on that team. Newton is too immature. I haven't seen that much of Luck but he seems like a baller. RGIII is impressive but the concern would be that injuries might keep him from ever hitting his ceiling. I hope not. I like the kid. Those two will have the jury out for a couple of more years. No one gets crowned in their rookie or sophomore years.

I wish you guys had enough confidence in Flacco to stop this.
[/quote]I didn't mention any of that other stuff so why even reply with it...

[H8R]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352263847' post='1212605']


So sorry. Did I not emphasize that Ryan has more 4th quarter comebacks than ANYONE in the league enough since 2008 enough? That includes Brady and the Manning brothers and not just against the Panthers. Add that to that how he is money on 3rd downs so please explain his lack of clutch to me.

I applaud Flacco for his success. It is a shame you can't return the favor. So very petty.
[/quote]

Brady, Manning, Brees , Rogers... Most of them win their games handily ... No need for a "comeback".

[jaege]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352263847' post='1212605']
So sorry. Did I not emphasize that Ryan has more 4th quarter comebacks than ANYONE in the league enough since 2008 enough? That includes Brady and the Manning brothers and not just against the Panthers. Add that to that how he is money on 3rd downs so please explain his lack of clutch to me.

I applaud Flacco for his success. It is a shame you can't return the favor. So very petty.
[/quote]

I never took anything from Ryan. I never said he wasnt clutch. I never said anything negative about his achievements. I only said that beating the Panthers is nothing to crow about. Which is what you were doing. Dont get your panties in a twist just because I called you on it. So very very petty.

A good record vs an easy schedule, is still a good record. I'll give you that. The problem is the playoffs. No scrubs there. You have to face and beat the best of the league. That is where the Falcons, with Ryan at the helm, gets exposed.

I will put it to you. He and the Falcons do very well during the regular season but can't seem to pull out a win in the post season. Why? Has to be a reason. What is it? What is the difference between the regular season and the post season? You say he is clutch, so it cannot be the pressure, since being "clutch" is all about being cool under pressure. What is it then? Could it be the quality and determination of opponents they are facing? You're not beating the Panthers, or cub scouts or old grannies during post season.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352263847' post='1212605']
So sorry. Did I not emphasize that Ryan has more 4th quarter comebacks than ANYONE in the league enough since 2008 enough? That includes Brady and the Manning brothers and not just against the Panthers. Add that to that how he is money on 3rd downs so please explain his lack of clutch to me.

I applaud Flacco for his success. [b] It is a shame you can't return the favor.[/b] So very petty.
[/quote]

It's not a question of giving Ryan props, it's more a product of having to constantly defend criticism of Flacco, when basically everyone else in America thinks that any half decent quarterback should be able to win with the Ravens' defense. We see our team every day and every week on Sundays and we know how vital Joe is to our success - however most fans look at raw numbers, see a guy who's never passed for 4000 yards or 30 TDs in his career, and automatically think he does nothing but take up space. The thing that does annoy me about the Flacco-Ryan debate however is that people conveniently like to ignore things like schedule, scheme, and the players around guys and judge quarterbacks in a vacuum. Is Ryan a top-10 quarterback who's ascending, absolutely. However, if I'm comparing Flacco to Ryan, or Flacco to ANYONE for that matter, here's some things I keep in mind,

1) for the first two years of Flacco's career his second and third receivers and his tight end are guys who are basically out of the league or on the bench at this point in their careers, and his number 1 was a 35 year old who retired the year after he left.

2) Flacco's current weapons include a second year player who was so raw he dropped to the bottom of the second round in his draft despite everyone agreeing he was a first round talent, a former pro bowler who just turned 32 and has been a number 2 receiver his entire career except his rookie season, a number 3 whose former team gave up on him, and 2 tight ends who fell in the draft due to athleticism and hands issues. Are they good weapons - yes. Are they Roddy White, Rob Gronkowski, Larry Fitzgerald, Dez Bryant, Hakeem Nicks, Demaryius Thomas, Brandon Marshall, etc. - NO.

3) Flacco's schedule has always included the Steelers, a team that was top 3 in NFL passing defense, twice a year for the last four, and the Bengals, top 10 3 of Flacco's first four seasons, and the Browns who were top 10 in passing defense last year - Flacco relatively, by the division he plays in, always plays a tough schedule, and that makes it hard to ever put up big numbers - which is why Ben Roethlisberger also never really puts up huge numbers.

And finally, 4) Flacco's offensive coordinator is maybe the most unimaginative guy in the league, and apparently the only guy who hasn't gotten the memo that using 3+ receiver sets instead of a base 2 receiver, 1 tight end set is legal in today's NFL.

So with all of the disadvantages Flacco has compared to other quarterbacks, especially point 4 where most elite QBs play in a system that fits them, while Flacco plays in a system that almost no quarterback could succeed in, comparing Flacco to any quarterback in this league is, IMO, laughable. If Flacco were to get a new offensive coordinator, one that implemented the kind of offensive playcalling many Ravens fans have been clamoring for the last 5 years, and he still struggled, then I'd say Flacco really doesn't have what it takes. But until I see that happen, I will never say any debate about Flacco's status in this league has been answered.

[Finally]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352287532' post='1212645']
Brady, Manning, Brees , Rogers... Most of them win their games handily ... No need for a "comeback".
[/quote]

So Ryan is at fault because he plays defense that routinely has given up the lead in the third quarter and up until now has had an OC that slows down with only a one possession lead? It is funny watching you guys take stabs at him with no clue about Falcons football.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352294010' post='1212662']


So Ryan is at fault because he plays defense that routinely has given up the lead in the third quarter and up until now has had an OC that slows down with only a one possession lead? It is funny watching you guys take stabs at him with no clue about Falcons football.
[/quote]thats not what he's saying. And if your going to argue that route I'd bet a handful of games Ryan has crapped the bed until the 4th quarter. He shouldn't get extra recognition in a situation like that. You can't just say he's had x 4th comebacks and crown him. The situation on what lead up to having to earn said comeback is important, and to be honest I could care enough to go and look at Ryan's performance in the first three quarters in them games to see what led to him having to make said comeback.

Fair enough, when the pressure is on he made them, but what h8r is pointing out, the best quarterbacks, except IMO, Eli normally play great the first three quarters that they have no need for comebacks, but you would still rather have them in a comeback situation than Ryan, just because they are better, not because Ryan's done it more often.

Eli on the other hand is as inconsistent as flacco at time and it bet anything the majority of his comeback situations has been down to mainly his own poor play. In them situations give him credit yeah, but you can throw to much weight on it because it was his fault mainly in the first place.

You also have situations like us against yous a few years ago. Joe goes down, scores a td, leads the game winning drive etc etc, then Ryan comes in a scores. Joe gets zero credit for that because his d, ill not mention the push off, because his d let up a core. So joes game winning drive is essentially wiped from the record books yet he done Excatly what Ryan done.

So in conclusion, take that "stat" with a grain of salt, there's a whole hell of a lot more that goes into it that x game winning drives or x 4th qtr comebacks.

[Finally]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1352289209' post='1212647']
I never took anything from Ryan. I never said he wasnt clutch. I never said anything negative about his achievements. I only said that beating the Panthers is nothing to crow about. Which is what you were doing. Dont get your panties in a twist just because I called you on it. So very very petty.

A good record vs an easy schedule, is still a good record. I'll give you that. The problem is the playoffs. No scrubs there. You have to face and beat the best of the league. That is where the Falcons, with Ryan at the helm, gets exposed.

I will put it to you. He and the Falcons do very well during the regular season but can't seem to pull out a win in the post season. Why? Has to be a reason. What is it? What is the difference between the regular season and the post season? You say he is clutch, so it cannot be the pressure, since being "clutch" is all about being cool under pressure. What is it then? Could it be the quality and determination of opponents they are facing? You're not beating the Panthers, or cub scouts or old grannies during post season.
[/quote]

Our lack of post season wins is due to having a lousy defense, up until now a slow offense, and up until now the fact that Ryan hasn't played his best in games with a national audience. If your defense is as bad as everyone says and they do not come alive during the playoffs and you still win against a team with a powerful defense and offense I will be super impressed with Flacco. The closest we came to winning a PO was against the Cardinals because their defense was more on par with ours.

Also, I wasn't beating my chest over beating the Panthers, I was beating my chest over a QB that did something no other active QB has done against any team, weak or strong.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352294743' post='1212664']


Our lack of post season wins is due to having a lousy defense, up until now a slow offense, and up until now the fact that Ryan hasn't played his best in games with a national audience. If your defense is as bad as everyone says and they do not come alive during the playoffs and you still win against a team with a powerful defense and offense I will be super impressed with Flacco. The closest we came to winning a PO was against the Cardinals because their defense was more on par with ours.

Also, I wasn't beating my chest over beating the Panthers, I was beating my chest over a QB that did something no other active QB has done against any team, weak or strong.
[/quote]and what was that Exactly? That's not sarcasm either... Still think that ball had int all over it with a decent safety but sports science says otherwise.....


That was sarcasm

[arnie_uk]

Jus watched it again on all 22 film. Ed reed intercepts that, any half decent safety if they don't intercept that bats it away at least, Naka back pedalled for well over 5 yards, he totally mis judged the flight. Poor safety play

[Finally]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1352294596' post='1212663']
thats not what he's saying. And if your going to argue that route I'd bet a handful of games Ryan has crapped the bed until the 4th quarter. He shouldn't get extra recognition in a situation like that. You can't just say he's had x 4th comebacks and crown him. The situation on what lead up to having to earn said comeback is important, and to be honest I could care enough to go and look at Ryan's performance in the first three quarters in them games to see what led to him having to make said comeback.
[/quote]

Actually when Ryan craps the bed we lose pretty much every time. You guys are so used to having a good defense you can't imagine what having a bad one is like. Most of our comebacks have been due to a defense that can't play more than half a game, OC that took the foot of the gas too early, and poor Oline play. Before this year our defense has been the deciding factor in winning maybe 3 or 4 games. Usually they have scored in games we were going to win anyway and their best games have been when we have crushed our opponents on ToP due to slow offensive drives.

Eli has had a better defense and, up until now, a faster offense. Apples and Oranges.

[BloodRaven]

Can we finally put this debate to rest meow?

[Finally]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1352294984' post='1212666']
and what was that Exactly? That's not sarcasm either... Still think that ball had int all over it with a decent safety but sports science says otherwise.....


That was sarcasm
[/quote]

Fine. You need it to be bad. I get it. Ryan was only sacked 7 times in that game so the win was completely unimpressive.

I am sure Flacco has never had a pass that took advantage of a DB out of position, that only happens to Ryan, right? There were only 2 receivers downfield so Ryan made a bad choice throwing it to the receiver he has the most confidence in, right? It was stupid to pick on a DB that earlier gave up another big play, right?

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

To the people saying the weapons dont matter.... Really??

question for you then, who would you take?

Roddy White or Anquan Boldin?

Julio Jones or Torrey Smith?

Tony Gonzalez or Dennis Pitta?

and Michael Turner or Ray Rice?

If you'd take a Raven in any question other than Rice right now I dont think you're being honest with yourself. I'd prob take Pitta for upside and youth, but im talking about right now.

Yes the QB does have to get the ball to those weapons, but the weapons DO matter. Only the elite guys like Brady and Manning make weapons, everyone else need weapons.

[CapoRocky]

I really think that we did the right thing by not trading the whole draft for Ryan. Still, he is an exceptional quarterback and regardless of our playoff statistics, he and Flacco are slowly becoming the future elite QB stars of the NFL. I'll be a homer on this one and support Joe no matter what happens. Matt could have been a Raven but the cost was too high.

[jaege]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352294743' post='1212664']
Our lack of post season wins is due to having a lousy defense, up until now a slow offense, and up until now the fact that Ryan hasn't played his best in games with a national audience. If your defense is as bad as everyone says and they do not come alive during the playoffs and you still win against a team with a powerful defense and offense I will be super impressed with Flacco. The closest we came to winning a PO was against the Cardinals because their defense was more on par with ours.

Also, I wasn't beating my chest over beating the Panthers, I was beating my chest over a QB that did something no other active QB has done against any team, weak or strong.
[/quote]

Flacco holds records that no other QB has ever accomplished either. That and 5 bucks gets coffee at Starbucks. I guess you have to pound your chest over something though.

So all the regular seasons wins are on Ryan and the post season losses are on the team? It is the same defense and offense that helped win enough games to get to the post season right? If Ryan is so good he should be able to compensate for the defense that (mysteriously) gets bad after the regular season ends.

Or maybe the Falcons just (were) not good enough to handle the cream of the NFL crop. That may have chnaged this year, considering thier record so far.

[Finally]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1352303166' post='1212702']
Yes the QB does have to get the ball to those weapons, but the weapons DO matter. Only the elite guys like Brady and Manning make weapons, everyone else need weapons.
[/quote]

I don't really buy that Manning and Brady make weapons. I think being around them and in their systems helps players reach their full potential but they had the talent to begin with. Watching Manning in 2010 tells me that elite doesn't mean much if you lose too much talent. Most of it comes down to holding players accountable. Most people thought that Roddy White was going to be a bust. Under Vick and the coaching staff at the time he partied all night and showed up for practice unprepared. Joe Horn taught Roddy to be a better receiver and the Smith era ended the partying.

[H8R]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352294010' post='1212662']
So Ryan is at fault because he plays defense that routinely has given up the lead in the third quarter and up until now has had an OC that slows down with only a one possession lead? It is funny watching you guys take stabs at him with no clue about Falcons football.
[/quote]

No, it's his fault ( or any qb's fault) for not playing well enough the WHOLE game to make a "comeback win" pointless. Are we also counting blowout wins too? It seems to me , Ryan can only do right... In your eyes. Hes a good young QB, that has put up wonderful numbers, won a lot of games... Just not games that means you move onto the next round if you WIN.

Also, dont even SPEAK of the OC being a drawback for him... at least not when comparing him to Flacco. Who, as just about everyone knows....has the ultimate idiot in Cam Cameron.. The same OC that left his former team, and then the incumbent QB improved.

Who's taking jabs? I stated the obvious, the truley "Elite" dont really need a ton of comebacks...because they play at such a high level, it makes it VERY difficult for MOST teams to even sniff a victory. Flacco has a good amount of "comeback victories".. Most of them were due to him not playing extremely well the other 3 quaters. And, to that point.. Flacco has done it in far mor hostile environments, against better competiton... Either way, if he played better earlier, the "comeback" wouldnr be needed.

[Finally]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1352307627' post='1212763']
Flacco holds records that no other QB has ever accomplished either. That and 5 bucks gets coffee at Starbucks. I guess you have to pound your chest over something though.

So all the regular seasons wins are on Ryan and the post season losses are on the team? It is the same defense and offense that helped win enough games to get to the post season right? If Ryan is so good he should be able to compensate for the defense that (mysteriously) gets bad after the regular season ends.

Or maybe the Falcons just (were) not good enough to handle the cream of the NFL crop. That may have chnaged this year, considering thier record so far.
[/quote]

I was defending the notion that Ryan was not a clutch QB and using some examples...

LOL at the notion we got mysteriously bad. It goes to prove my point that you guys are talking about things you don't understand. We have never gotten mysteriously bad. We have been upstaged in regular season games to a humiliating degree as well.

Even at 8-0 I would not put a lock on us winning a PO game this year. We still have issues on defense. Nolan has done a good job scheming around them but that only gets you so far. Oline is still flukey too. I do feel like our offense is finally PO ready. In the past we won so many games in low gear to the point where when it was needed the high gear was rusty. We pretty much abandoned the run the first 6 games and put up points fast and slow. It was like watching a different team.

[Finally]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352310589' post='1212788']
No, it's his fault ( or any qb's fault) for not playing well enough the WHOLE game to make a "comeback win" pointless. Are we also counting blowout wins too? It seems to me , Ryan can only do right... In your eyes. Hes a good young QB, that has put up wonderful numbers, won a lot of games... Just not games that means you move onto the next round if you WIN.

Also, dont even SPEAK of the OC being a drawback for him... at least not when comparing him to Flacco. Who, as just about everyone knows....has the ultimate idiot in Cam Cameron.. The same OC that left his former team, and then the incumbent QB improved.
[/quote]

So it is okay for Cam to be an idiot (if that is the case) but not Mularkey for having Ryan hand off the ball to Turner play after play running out the clock in the third quarter with only a small lead? No screen game. Great receivers that were almost always put in a position with no opportunity for YAC. Almost no emphasis on the deep ball to keep defenses honest.

Sorry, friend, you didn't own the market on unimaginative and stubborn OCs. Mularkey has a great mind for rushing but not for passing.

[Finally]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352310589' post='1212788']
Ryan can only do right... In your eyes. Hes a good young QB, that has put up wonderful numbers, won a lot of games...
[/quote]

Let me hit on this point. You have no idea or even close to a clue what Ryan means to Falcons fans. You couldn't even imagine. Flacco is your QB and he has helped you win a lot of games. Ryan has been instrumental in transforming our franchise. Talk to me when you go the next 42 years with no back to back winning seasons and only winning around 38 percent of your games. Talk to me when you have been ridiculed for being dumb enough to be a Falcons fan for 30 years. I'd have to check but Flacco is probably closing in on more playoff wins than we have EVER had, forget Ryan, as a franchise. Also, turn in your Lombardi then we can talk for a good long time. To top things off try having a QB that kills dogs and a coach who literally fled in the dark of night.

Yeah, I will beat my chest over Ryan being clutch because those 19 comebacks are the only thing that has kept us from being the same old crappy team.

If Flacco wins a SB before Ryan then I will be jealous. I have watched my team have some playoff success and without winning a SB, in the end it just meant we had a slightly longer season. 1 winner, 31 losers. I don't care if we win a playoff game this year if we are not going to win it all. The only thing it accomplishes is making the media work harder to find some way to hate us and those of you that insist on keeping this debate alive will go from saying Ryan hasn't won any to Flacco has won more. I am not interesting in consolations or moral victories I have had too many of those already.

[H8R]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352314804' post='1212838']
Let me hit on this point. You have no idea or even close to a clue what Ryan means to Falcons fans. You couldn't even imagine. Flacco is your QB and he has helped you win a lot of games. Ryan has been instrumental in transforming our franchise. Talk to me when you go the next 42 years with no back to back winning seasons and only winning around 38 percent of your games. Talk to me when you have been ridiculed for being dumb enough to be a Falcons fan for 30 years. I'd have to check but Flacco is probably closing in on more playoff wins than we have EVER had, forget Ryan, as a franchise. Also, turn in your Lombardi then we can talk for a good long time. To top things off try having a QB that kills dogs and a coach who literally fled in the dark of night.

Yeah, I will beat my chest over Ryan being clutch because those 19 comebacks are the only thing that has kept us from being the same old crappy team.

If Flacco wins a SB before Ryan then I will be jealous. I have watched my team have some playoff success and without winning a SB, in the end it just meant we had a slightly longer season. 1 winner, 31 losers. I don't care if we win a playoff game this year if we are not going to win it all. The only thing it accomplishes is making the media work harder to find some way to hate us and those of you that insist on keeping this debate alive will go from saying Ryan hasn't won any to Flacco has won more. I am not interesting in consolations or moral victories I have had too many of those already.
[/quote]


Stop at Rite-Aid, get some tissues...and then cry on the Failcons board. I don't know what you want me to say? What..? That we feel sorry for you? lol.

[H8R]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352312307' post='1212815']
So it is okay for Cam to be an idiot (if that is the case) but not Mularkey for having Ryan hand off the ball to Turner play after play running out the clock in the third quarter with only a small lead? No screen game. Great receivers that were almost always put in a position with no opportunity for YAC. Almost no emphasis on the deep ball to keep defenses honest.

Sorry, friend, you didn't own the market on unimaginative and stubborn OCs. Mularkey has a great mind for rushing but not for passing.
[/quote]

You're apologizing for your TEAMS short-comings...

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352298715' post='1212683']


Fine. You need it to be bad. I get it. Ryan was only sacked 7 times in that game so the win was completely unimpressive.

I am sure Flacco has never had a pass that took advantage of a DB out of position, that only happens to Ryan, right? There were only 2 receivers downfield so Ryan made a bad choice throwing it to the receiver he has the most confidence in, right? It was stupid to pick on a DB that earlier gave up another big play, right?
[/quote]cant even talk to you at all your completely blinded. I haven't said anything about the win being unimpressive, I didn't say he didn't take advantage of someone out of position, I didn't say it was a bad choice. Your putting [profanity deleted] words into my mouth and I damn well don't appreciate it. You win any respect around here if you start doing that to everyone.

What I said, and I quote, "it was an awful pass".... No mention of any of those things you said.

With ran a great route, he faked a corner post type route, and held the cb, he then sprinted straight ahead, Naka was held in the middle of the field by I think jones running deep in the middle, white was left all alone, a good pass would have hit white in stride and he would have jogged in for a touchdown.

However Ryan's pass was horrible underthrown, in a dome with no wind, and white had to come back on it, and Naka began backpedalling to early, mis judging the flight allowing white to catch it. Naka should have intercepted it because it was an awful pass, he didnt, he should have at least tipped it.

The ball was about 10 yards short of where it needed to be to be a great pass. That completion goes down to a great route by white, poor flight recognition by Naka, and great tenancy for white to go up and get it. It was just a heave by Ryan and it fell short. It was the perfect decision, he recognised it early, he down everything right except make a great throw. Granted some QBs couldn't even have got the ball as far as he done, but that completion was lucky for Ryan, and he should be thanking white a million times over.

I don't know if you have all 22 film but if you do, watch it, it gives a totally different perception to the pass. Good read, good decision, poor safety play, under thrown ball. You won't win this argument.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352312307' post='1212815']


So it is okay for Cam to be an idiot (if that is the case) but not Mularkey for having Ryan hand off the ball to Turner play after play running out the clock in the third quarter with only a small lead? No screen game. Great receivers that were almost always put in a position with no opportunity for YAC. Almost no emphasis on the deep ball to keep defenses honest.

Sorry, friend, you didn't own the market on unimaginative and stubborn OCs. Mularkey has a great mind for rushing but not for passing.
[/quote]well then as you keep saying, you clearly know nothing about us. There's bad OCs, then there's cam in a league of his own.

[Finally]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352315415' post='1212839']
Stop at Rite-Aid, get some tissues...and then cry on the Failcons board. I don't know what you want me to say? What..? That we feel sorry for you? lol.
[/quote]

It really sucks that was your take away. Whatever.

[Bravens292]

Mularkey>>>>>>>>>Cam. i'll take anyone over this bum. with cam, every pass from joe is going to a wr with the DB draped all over him and a near sure chance of being picked off. if our wr's even got the slightest of seperation on these DB's, then joes game 1 against the bengals would happen more often. we didn't get 10 yards of space, but it was NFL seperation that joe actually had a chance. i haven't seen that since. yeah mularkey may have kept the opponent in games but the offense was still good and not as predictable as cam. a D coordinator could run an offense better than cam.

[Finally]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1352316710' post='1212850']
cant even talk to you at all your completely blinded. I haven't said anything about the win being unimpressive, I didn't say he didn't take advantage of someone out of position, I didn't say it was a bad choice. Your putting [profanity deleted] words into my mouth and I damn well don't appreciate it. You win any respect around here if you start doing that to everyone.

What I said, and I quote, "it was an awful pass".... No mention of any of those things you said.

With ran a great route, he faked a corner post type route, and held the cb, he then sprinted straight ahead, Naka was held in the middle of the field by I think jones running deep in the middle, white was left all alone, a good pass would have hit white in stride and he would have jogged in for a touchdown.

However Ryan's pass was horrible underthrown, in a dome with no wind, and white had to come back on it, and Naka began backpedalling to early, mis judging the flight allowing white to catch it. Naka should have intercepted it because it was an awful pass, he didnt, he should have at least tipped it.

The ball was about 10 yards short of where it needed to be to be a great pass. That completion goes down to a great route by white, poor flight recognition by Naka, and great tenancy for white to go up and get it. It was just a heave by Ryan and it fell short. It was the perfect decision, he recognised it early, he down everything right except make a great throw. Granted some QBs couldn't even have got the ball as far as he done, but that completion was lucky for Ryan, and he should be thanking white a million times over.

I don't know if you have all 22 film but if you do, watch it, it gives a totally different perception to the pass. Good read, good decision, poor safety play, under thrown ball. You won't win this argument.
[/quote]

No. I won't win. I am dealing with a person who plays the ifs game. This if and that if didn't happen. The ball was caught. You see a bad play from a safety, I see a smart QB for taking advantage of him. You see an underthrown ball, I see a QB that might have been more interested in letting White make a play rather than risking a sack (he was sacked 7 times, remember?) that would have ended the game. I also see a QB that up until recently hasn't been given that many opportunities to fling it down field.

But I can play the if game too. If the pass was incomplete Ryan would have won the game some other way. If it was intercepted White would have forced the fumble (he has done it before).

Let's just agree to disagree. Neither of us can re-write history.