At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1351477103' post='1205247']
I would agree there, but the issue at hand is comparing Flacco and Ryan. I say switch the two, give Ryan Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton his first 2 years, give Flacco Roddy White, let Flacco play in a dome where he can sling it all day without weather, make Ryan play in the cold of the AFC North, let Flacco play the Panthers and Bucs twice a year while Ryan has to face the Bengals and Steelers, and I definitely think their numbers would be somewhat reversed. Or to put it another way, Roethlisberger has hardly ever put up big numbers, and Philip Rivers has put up big numbers almost his entire career. But for my money, Roethlisberger is the better quarterback. Not saying that directly applies to Flacco and Ryan, but simply that you can't use raw numbers to say objectively one guy is better than the other. Another fact - last year between Rice and Williams they accounted for something like 12 rushing TDs from 10 yards away or less, while Joe had 3 passing TDs from that distance. Ryan's running backs were something like 4 TDs while 12 of his TDs were from that distance. The playcalling and design of the offenses have a direct effect on raw numbers.
[/quote]
Very well said.

[flynismo]

I think it is absolutely hilarious that you can say this:

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351484747' post='1205282']
Comparing weapons is irrelevant.
[/quote]

and this:

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351484747' post='1205282']
[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Whether or not we're playing to their strengths, coaching wise, is a different story.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

in the same post.

So our weapons are irrelevant, but the fact that we aren't using them nearly as well as we could is relevant?
In other words, you are saying what Flacco has to work with (his weapons) aren't as good as Ryan's, but it is irrelevant for some unkown reason!

[flynismo]

BTW, Flacco has more yards than Ryan, and both have six picks. Ryan has more TD and a higher QB rating.

So I'm not sure how this one season -- which we arent even halfway through yet -- is going to decide this "debate"

[RavensPunkXVX]

Listen. It is irrelevant that we sit around and point at WR's/TE's on other teams and think of excuses as to WHY Ryan is better than Flacco at this stage. We say, oh he has Julio, Roddy, TG. We have the same type of weapons. I'm sorry if you guys don't agree with that. So to sit around and say they have better weapons, it is kind of pointless, they don't.

What does come into play, considering I THINK we have the same reliable weapons is, why are we not producing? Why is Ryan producing with Julio, Roddy, and TG, but we cant with Torrey, Q, Pitta.

I get it TG is a HOF, but Pitta is pretty good as well, but at that level, but we also have Mr. Rice who is better than Turner.

I think it's larger than the "weapons." Therefore, when I say that the weapons, are "irrelevant," I'm saying we have the same type of firepower, but we're not producing as Matt Ryan is. Does that mean Ryan is better? Are they calling up better plays? Is their offensive line better?

I'm saying our weapons are JUST AS good Ryans, which is why the conversation on weapons is irrelevant. The conversation is, why are we not producing?

[Gordo52]

[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#222222][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]Looking at it for this season only...

Falcons Oline>Ravens Oline

White>Boldin, Jones>Smith, Gonzalez >Pitta/Dickson.

Rice>Turner/Rodgers

Falcons D>Ravens D.

Falcons schedule>Ravens schedule -- they also have easier remaining schedule.

Dome>outdoor stadium. (I hate domes).

Ravens pass offense: 7th
Falcons pass offense: 15th
(not sure if espn updated this or not)

Ravens: 5-2, Falcons: 7-0.

Ryan may have a better TD/INT ratio,passing yards, qb rating, whatever. But Joe has always faced harder circumstances, and has a better career [u]so far[/u] than Ryan. Both are great young QBs. [/background][/size][/color][/font]

[RavensPunkXVX]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1351489867' post='1205311']
[font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Looking at it for this season only...

Falcons Oline>Ravens Oline

White>Boldin, Jones>Smith, Gonzalez >Pitta/Dickson.

Rice>Turner/Rodgers

Falcons D>Ravens D.

Falcons schedule>Ravens schedule -- they also have easier remaining schedule.

Dome>outdoor stadium. (I hate domes).

Ravens pass offense: 7th
Falcons pass offense: 15th
(not sure if espn updated this or not)

Ravens: 5-2, Falcons: 7-0.

Ryan may have a better TD/INT ratio,passing yards, qb rating, whatever. But Joe has always faced harder circumstances, and has a better career [u]so far[/u] than Ryan. Both are great young QBs. [/font]
[/quote]

THANK YOU.

I think comparisons are so ridiculous anyways. What matters is what happens at the end of the season. They can't produce, we can. But I could careless who they compare Flacco to. He gets the job done when it's needed.

I just hate seeing posts that make excuses at to why others are better than Flacco. Our weapons are just as good as Matt Ryans. I just think they're playing a little better in all three phases.

[flynismo]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351489795' post='1205310']
Listen. It is irrelevant that we sit around and point at WR's/TE's on other teams and think of excuses as to WHY Ryan is better than Flacco at this stage. We say, oh he has Julio, Roddy, TG. We have the same type of weapons. I'm sorry if you guys don't agree with that. So to sit around and say they have better weapons, it is kind of pointless, they don't.

What does come into play, considering I THINK we have the same reliable weapons is, why are we not producing? Why is Ryan producing with Julio, Roddy, and TG, but we cant with Torrey, Q, Pitta.

I get it TG is a HOF, but Pitta is pretty good as well, but at that level, but we also have Mr. Rice who is better than Turner.

I think it's larger than the "weapons." Therefore, when I say that the weapons, are "irrelevant," I'm saying we have the same type of firepower, but we're not producing as Matt Ryan is. Does that mean Ryan is better? Are they calling up better plays? Is their offensive line better?

I'm saying our weapons are JUST AS good Ryans, which is why the conversation on weapons is irrelevant. The conversation is, why are we not producing?
[/quote]

Should be pretty obvious. Flacco has been sacked almost 50% more often, (someone else posted stats where on average Flacco was sacked in 2.9 seconds, and Ryan was sacked on average in 4.0 seconds) indicating that our OL is not nearly as good.

Watch our recievers struggle to seperate, then watch Julio and Roddy smack Dbs around and get YAC.

I won't even get started on Cam...

[The Raven]

Can we talk about a person not named Joe Flacco, Cary Williams, Cam Cameron, Dean Pees, and Ray Lewis for just one week? I feel like those are the only people this board is capable of talking about.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1351490268' post='1205314']


Should be pretty obvious. Flacco has been sacked almost 50% more often, (someone else posted stats where on average Flacco was sacked in 2.9 seconds, and Ryan was sacked on average in 4.0 seconds) indicating that our OL is not nearly as good.

Watch our recievers struggle to seperate, then watch Julio and Roddy smack Dbs around and get YAC.

I won't even get started on Cam...
[/quote]

Your points are laughable. Here's why:

Aaron Rodgers got sacked 60% more than Joe Flacco. Yet his always a model of consistency. He lost his #1 receiver to injury, lost his touted 'genius' o-coord. Joe Philbin, makes average receivers look elite( all 5 of his receivers has over 400 yards receptions), has no RB and has one of the worst defense in NFL. Yet his still the best QB. No QB has a perfect unit, but good QB makes thing work, no matter what he has.

Its not fair to compare Joe to Aaron, so ill make it easier for you:

Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Josh Freeman all have been sacked as much as Joe Flacco, yet all 3 of them beat Joe Flacco in EVERY statistical category this season. Whats your answer to that?

To make it even more easier. The QB that has nearly identical statistics is Russel Wilson(yea that guy). So basically, a rookie is doing just as good (or awful) as a 5-year tenured starting QB in his contract year. Its time you stop drinking the Flacco kool-aid, and realize Flacco is part of the many problem we are having lately.

Him, just like our defense,coaches, and everyone else has to get better to reach SB. But more than anyone else, the QB. Because he is the most important component of the team.

[kassaiscool]

Point blank Matt Ryan is better in my opinion. He was drafted at number 3 overall for a reason and Joe 18th overall for a reason. For all those people who come and say that Matt Ryan hasn't won a playoff game yet, look at the teams who beat the falcons in the playoffs. Those Three teams are Giants 2011( who won the super last year), the packers in 2010 (who won the super bowl that year), and in 2008 the Cardinals who went to the super bowl and lost to the steelers in the final moments of the game. You can argue if the ravens played those same teams in the playoffs we could have lost as well. Joe has a great defense in bMore so he will get his playoff wins, but his stats are average at best in the playoffs. I love Joe because hes our Qb, but I don't have purple shades and won't admit something that isn't true. I also wonder what the Ryan haters will say when he gets his playoff win this year.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1351498639' post='1205334']
Point blank Matt Ryan is better in my opinion. He was drafted at number 3 overall for a reason and Joe 18th overall for a reason. For all those people who come and say that Matt Ryan hasn't won a playoff game yet,[b] look at the teams who beat the falcons in the playoffs[/b]. Those Three teams are Giants 2011( who won the super last year), the packers in 2010 (who won the super bowl that year), and in 2008 the Cardinals who went to the super bowl and lost to the steelers in the final moments of the game. You can argue if the ravens played those same teams in the playoffs we could have lost as well. Joe has a great defense in bMore so he will get his playoff wins, but his stats are average at best in the playoffs. I love Joe because hes our Qb, but I don't have purple shades and won't admit something that isn't true. I also wonder what the Ryan haters will say when he gets his playoff win this year.
[/quote]

It's not just who they've faced - the fact is for all the nonsense about Joe being carried through the playoffs by his team, Matt Ryan has been HORRIBLE in the playoffs. Look who Joe faced - 2008 Steelers won the Superbowl, 2009-2011 he faced the AFC team that got to the Superbowl. In order Joe dueled Roethlisberger, Brady, Manning, Roethlisberger again, and then had to face Brady again last year. You act like Ryan had an impossible road while Joe had the easy path. Joe has faced top 5 defenses 4-5 times in the playoffs, while Ryan in his three games has faced 1, the 2010 Packers. Yet of the 3 games he's played, the best Ryan could do was to put up a 73 quarterback rating, and that was in his first season. Joe put up QB ratings of 95 in both of his post-season games last year alone. Ryan might have better numbers in the regular season, but he can't touch Joe in the postseason. And let's not forget that one of those games last year for Joe was against the number 3 ranked Houston Texans, while Ryan faced the number 29 ranked New York Giants passing defense.Regardless of success in the regular season, by the raw numbers and the competition they've faced (defensively), Joe has been the better quarterback.

Matt Ryan - 2008 Cardinals - 22nd in passing defense regular season
2010 Packers - 2nd in passing defense regular season
2011 Giants - 29th in passing defense regular season

Joe - 2008 Titans - 9th in passing defense regular season
2008 Dolphins - 25th in passing defense regular season
2008 Steelers 1st in passing defense regular season
2009 Patriots - 12th in passing defense regular season
2009 Colts - 14th in passing defense regular season
2010 Chiefs - 17th in passing defense regular season
2010 Steelers - 12th in passing defense regular season
2011 Texans - 3rd in passing defense regular season
2011 Patriots - 31st in passing defense regular season

And this is just by yards per game allowed - has nothing to do with takeaways, opposing quarterback rating, sacks, PPG, etc., where a lot of those teams Joe faced actually look better i.e. just about every one of those teams ranked higher in PPG allowed and sacks than YPG given up through the air. Fact is, Joe has faced harder competition based on the defenses he had to face, and came out on top. Remember, the New York Giants gave up 25 points or more 7 times in 2011, including 36 to the Seattle Sehawks and Matt Ryan couldn't lead his team to a single offensive point in the Medowlands.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351493049' post='1205329']


Your points are laughable. Here's why:

Aaron Rodgers got sacked 60% more than Joe Flacco. Yet his always a model of consistency. He lost his #1 receiver to injury, lost his touted 'genius' o-coord. Joe Philbin, makes average receivers look elite( all 5 of his receivers has over 400 yards receptions), has no RB and has one of the worst defense in NFL. Yet his still the best QB. No QB has a perfect unit, but good QB makes thing work, no matter what he has.

Its not fair to compare Joe to Aaron, so ill make it easier for you:

Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Josh Freeman all have been sacked as much as Joe Flacco, yet all 3 of them beat Joe Flacco in EVERY statistical category this season. Whats your answer to that?

To make it even more easier. The QB that has nearly identical statistics is Russel Wilson(yea that guy). So basically, a rookie is doing just as good (or awful) as a 5-year tenured starting QB in his contract year. Its time you stop drinking the Flacco kool-aid, and realize Flacco is part of the many problem we are having lately.

Him, just like our defense,coaches, and everyone else has to get better to reach SB. But more than anyone else, the QB. Because he is the most important component of the team.
[/quote]freeman has been sacked 7 times, to joes 18. Andy dalton has threw 10 picks, and people complain about joes 6. Aex smith has thre one less pick, with 60 less attempts. Statistically he will throw another one and a half picks by the time he reaches joes attempts.

Rodgers has been sacked 25 times, to joes 18, that's only 38 percent more. While rodgers has been sacked more, hes dropped back a hell off a lot more. Flacco is pressued on 34.3 percent of his drop backs compared to Rodgers 25. Rodgers just gets sacked 31 percent of the times he is pressured, Where joe is sacked 19 percent of his pressures. so joe is pressured more often, but rodgers takes sacks at a higher rate when pressured than joe.

funny thought a criticsim of joes has holding onto it to long when pressured, when the best qb in the league takes a hell of a lot more sacks under pressure.

Russell wilson and Andy dalton haven't been hit as thrown thus far, joe is 5th in that stat.

If your trying to counter argue someone at least make sure your facts, and stats are correct.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351493049' post='1205329']
Your points are laughable. Here's why:

Aaron Rodgers got sacked 60% more than Joe Flacco. Yet his always a model of consistency. He lost his #1 receiver to injury, lost his touted 'genius' o-coord. Joe Philbin, makes average receivers look elite( all 5 of his receivers has over 400 yards receptions), has no RB and has one of the worst defense in NFL. Yet his still the best QB. No QB has a perfect unit, but good QB makes thing work, no matter what he has.

Its not fair to compare Joe to Aaron, so ill make it easier for you:

Alex Smith, Andy Dalton, Josh Freeman all have been sacked as much as Joe Flacco, yet all 3 of them beat Joe Flacco in EVERY statistical category this season. Whats your answer to that?

To make it even more easier. The QB that has nearly identical statistics is Russel Wilson(yea that guy). So basically, a rookie is doing just as good (or awful) as a 5-year tenured starting QB in his contract year. Its time you stop drinking the Flacco kool-aid, and realize Flacco is part of the many problem we are having lately.

Him, just like our defense,coaches, and everyone else has to get better to reach SB. But more than anyone else, the QB. Because he is the most important component of the team.
[/quote]

Your post is laughable. Here is why.

Half your stats are made up or incorrect (just like in our previous conversation -- I notice a pattern here).
Secondly, we are talking about Ryan and Flacco, and you are derailing the thread with this nonsense. Show me why Ryan is better. If you can't, then crawl back under the rock you came out of until the next Flacco thread.

[EricH]

Ryan?
The only Ryan I even concern myself with is the one by the first name of Rex.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1351517622' post='1205370']
freeman has been sacked 7 times, to joes 18. Andy dalton has threw 10 picks, and people complain about joes 6. Aex smith has thre one less pick, with 60 less attempts. Statistically he will throw another one and a half picks by the time he reaches joes attempts.

Rodgers has been sacked 25 times, to joes 18, that's only 38 percent more. While rodgers has been sacked more, hes dropped back a hell off a lot more. Flacco is pressued on 34.3 percent of his drop backs compared to Rodgers 25. Rodgers just gets sacked 31 percent of the times he is pressured, Where joe is sacked 19 percent of his pressures. so joe is pressured more often, but rodgers takes sacks at a higher rate when pressured than joe.

funny thought a criticsim of joes has holding onto it to long when pressured, when the best qb in the league takes a hell of a lot more sacks under pressure.

Russell wilson and Andy dalton haven't been hit as thrown thus far, joe is 5th in that stat.

If your trying to counter argue someone at least make sure your facts, and stats are correct.
[/quote]

Funny how you nit pick everything thats wrong, but all the fact remains intact. I didnt expect anything less from you or flynismo(both of you an extreme flacco homers)

Flynismo stated Flacco was sacked 50% more than Ryan. Wrong. Wonder why you didnt nit pick on that one.

Aaron rodgers has been sacked significantly more than Flacco, and rest of everything i've said are true about rodgers.

Andy Dalton was sacked 17times, while Alex Smith was sacked 18times- you see how you never mentioned that? I added Josh Freeman there because all 3 of them beat Joe Flacco in every statistical category. Thats my point.

Another point I was trying to make, Russell Wilson has nearly identical passer rating as Joe Flacco. Russel is a rookie, and Joe is a 5th tenured QB. Thats should be a troubling sign. Yet you miss another point. Typical homer's approach.

[EricH]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351522564' post='1205416']

Another point I was trying to make, Russell Wilson has nearly identical passer rating as Joe Flacco. Russel is a rookie, and Joe is a 5th tenured QB. Thats should be a troubling sign. Yet you miss another point. Typical homer's approach.
[/quote]
And Cam Newton was the best in the NFL last year. How is that second year working out for him?

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351522564' post='1205416']
Funny how you nit pick everything thats wrong, but all the fact remains intact. I didnt expect anything less from you or flynismo(both of you an extreme flacco homers)
[/quote]


Yes yes, I know that demanding ACCURATE stats, rather than crap you make up, is asking a lot of you.

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351522564' post='1205416']
Flynismo stated Flacco was sacked 50% more than Ryan. Wrong. Wonder why you didnt nit pick on that one.

[/quote]


How fitting, ANOTHER inaccurate statement from you.
I said that Flacco was sacked ALMOST --[b] ALMOST[/b] -- 50% more. Do you think that may be why he did not "pick on that one"?

[Kwothdaraven]

All i can say is that Ryan has much better weapons in absolutely every facet other than rb. He has much better WRs and Tony gonzalez at te. His oline is far superior as well.

He also a competant offensive coordinator that is running an offense suitable for the modern nfl. Whereas cam is still running somehing out of the 70s. Its unfair to flacco

[Kwothdaraven]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1351522564' post='1205416']


Funny how you nit pick everything thats wrong, but all the fact remains intact. I didnt expect anything less from you or flynismo(both of you an extreme flacco homers)

Flynismo stated Flacco was sacked 50% more than Ryan. Wrong. Wonder why you didnt nit pick on that one.

Aaron rodgers has been sacked significantly more than Flacco, and rest of everything i've said are true about rodgers.

Andy Dalton was sacked 17times, while Alex Smith was sacked 18times- you see how you never mentioned that? I added Josh Freeman there because all 3 of them beat Joe Flacco in every statistical category. Thats my point.

Another point I was trying to make, Russell Wilson has nearly identical passer rating as Joe Flacco. Russel is a rookie, and Joe is a 5th tenured QB. Thats should be a troubling sign. Yet you miss another point. Typical homer's approach.
[/quote]

All 3 of those guys you mentioned have significantly superior talent around them and are playing in schemes that belog in the modern nfl

[display name]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351484747' post='1205282']
Comparing weapons is irrelevant. Matt Ryan does have an excellent supporting cast, but we do in Baltimore, as well. I'm not sure if it's the play calling or the quarterback as to why one QB is succeeding and the other isn't, but I find Torrey Smith/Q just as valuable as Roddy/Julio.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Q put up multiple 1,000 yard seasons in ARIZONA and has yet to do so in Baltimore. Q is a talented dude. Might not be quick like Roddy, but he has hands. Torrey Smith is just as valuable as Julio Jones. Whether or not we're playing to their strengths , coaching wise, is a different story. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Yes, I think the division matters in terms of the Falcons. Playing in a dome in the NFC, which I see as a weaker conference as to playing in tough climates, is quite the difference maker.[/font][/color]
[/quote]
Ryan has Julio Jones and Roddy White and he plays in a dome against terrible defenses, as fly pointed out.

[flynismo]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1351525545' post='1205446']
Ryan has Julio Jones and Roddy White and he plays in a dome against terrible defenses, as fly pointed out.
[/quote]
[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1351525503' post='1205445']
All 3 of those guys you mentioned have significantly superior talent around them and are playing in schemes that belog in the modern nfl
[/quote]
[quote name='Kwothdaraven' timestamp='1351525361' post='1205442']
All i can say is that Ryan has much better weapons in absolutely every facet other than rb. He has much better WRs and Tony gonzalez at te. His oline is far superior as well.

He also a competant offensive coordinator that is running an offense suitable for the modern nfl. Whereas cam is still running somehing out of the 70s. Its unfair to flacco
[/quote]

Well, according to certain people here, the fact that Ryan has all these advantages is "irrelevant".

[display name]

This thread is garbage.

[Markus92]

Ryan looks better right now because of:
1.Weapons
2.Schedule
3.Dome
4. most importantly his coordinator

Everybody on here has been right to an extent so you guys are arguing in a circle lol...But in all honesty from watching both ravens and falcons games his scheme is just so so SOOOOO much better....We should have gotten todd haley smh :/ then the argument would be fair to flacco....

[CalvinSmoke]

Typically i would point to Wide Recievers. But I'll take a different approach here, Matt Ryan has outperformed Joe this year. I'll only talk about this year because Matt Ryan has a new OC. Joe is playing at the same level he did last year, Huge game one, terrible next game. The better he plays one week the worst he'll play the next, very much like a rubber band effect with Joe. But this is all a mute point. It's all about making the playoffs, and winning that coveted SB. The best QB of this nextgeneration will be decided when a QB that isn't Brady, Manning bros, Rodgers, or Roethlisburer wins the SB.

[SecretAgentMan]

Ryan's system allows him to throw all the damn time. Joe has more playoff wins, hands it to Rice, and still gets similar stats "Clutch Wins" only matter in the playoffs, and Flacco has been robbed. So... Flacco

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1351527624' post='1205471']
Well, according to certain people here, the fact that Ryan has all these advantages is "irrelevant".
[/quote]
It's not, I would know
If Flacco had these weapons..... I just crapped myself thinking about it.

[Corvus]

At this point in the season, how could Ryan not be the "answer" to this debate. And do you know what a big part of it is? Atlanta's front office realizing when something has stagnated with the team, aka Mularkey's offensive schemes were part of their late season problems the last few seasons. As in any case, if the players don't execute, it certainly doesn't help the coordinator, but in Atlanta, it was obvious that offensive gameplans were just as much to blame for the Jan '09 loss to Arizona, the Jan '11 thumping against Green bay, and the Jan '12 safety stinker vs the Giants. They brought in Dirk Koetter who has been like a breath of fresh air for them so far because he UNDERSTANDS his personnel and puts them in positions to do what they do best.

Which brings us to the '12 incarnation of the Ravens offense which is still suffering the same problems that we have for the past two and a half seasons. As I said, if your players aren't executing as our entire offense did last Sunday, it doesn't help. But its been painfully obvious to the majority of Ravens fans what a big aspect of the problem is, and its not our players failing to execute. Until we see a similar change, Ryan and company will continue to run up and down the field compared our ridiculous gameplans...I am still a fan to the bitter end and hold out hopes of us still raising the Lombardi this February, but I also am already looking forward to the (remote by the way the past couple of offseasons have gone) chance of any offseason changes to the coaching staff...

[Corvus]

At this point in the season, how could Ryan not be the "answer" to this debate. And do you know what a big part of it is? Atlanta's front office realizing when something has stagnated with the team, aka Mularkey's offensive schemes were part of their late season problems the last few seasons. As in any case, if the players don't execute, it certainly doesn't help the coordinator, but in Atlanta, it was obvious that offensive gameplans were just as much to blame for the Jan '09 loss to Arizona, the Jan '11 thumping against Green bay, and the Jan '12 safety stinker vs the Giants. They brought in Dirk Koetter who has been like a breath of fresh air for them so far because he UNDERSTANDS his personnel and puts them in positions to do what they do best.

Which brings us to the '12 incarnation of the Ravens offense which is still suffering the same problems that we have for the past two and a half seasons. As I said, if your players aren't executing as our entire offense did last Sunday, it doesn't help. But its been painfully obvious to the majority of Ravens fans what a big aspect of the problem is, and its not our players failing to execute. Until we see a similar change, Ryan and company will continue to run up and down the field compared our ridiculous gameplans...I am still a fan to the bitter end and hold out hopes of us still raising the Lombardi this February, but I also am already looking forward to the chance of any offseason changes to the coaching staff...

[Ravenslifer]

I still think it's funny people are trying to compare Flacco's weapons to Ryan's. Did people just not watch that 2010 game when Roddy White flat out abused us and got wide open at the end for a score? Matt Ryan didn't make Roddy White, Roddy White had already posted a 1200 yard season for a 4-12 Falcons team with Joey Harrington and Chris Redman throwing him the ball, oh, and no Michael Turner to take any pressure off. Q has been a number 2 receiver every single year of his career except his rookie season until he came to Baltimore, and Torrey is a second year player. White was already in his 4th season when Ryan got to Atlanta - remember people, we took Mark Clayton over Roddy White in the 05 draft. In time, Flacco's weapons may equal Ryan's, but right now Torrey is still learning, Q is on the decline, and Joe and Jacoby have just gotten together. To say Ryan could have done the same thing here that he's doing in Atlanta is a joke - or are you all forgetting what Ryan did against the Dennis Dickson led Steelers in 2010? Check Flacco's stats in dome stadiums, and then tell me playing in a dome doesn't significantly increase a quarterback's numbers. Now, Ryan may in fact be a better quarterback than Flacco, but I still say the case hasn't been closed - Ryan has a better offensive coordinator, they got rid of a guy that took Ryan to a pro-bowl, yet we hang on to Cam. Ryan has weather advantages, weapon advantages, and scheduling advantages.

[jimmypowder]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351532039' post='1205528']

It's not, I would know ;)
If Flacco had these weapons..... I just crapped myself thinking about it.
[/quote]

I just crapped too ! Literally .

Bottom line is my boy Matty has a better oline , better receivers ,better tight end ,plays in a dome
and has a better coordinator .

Other then that ,it's all good.