At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1353046778' post='1220152']
I haven't seen a playoff game where Rice was a non-factor, but I guess it depends on you what you consider a non-factor.
[/quote]

I clearly wrote "relative non-factor". But since you want to pretend it's never happened, I'll beak them down:

He was painfully quiet in both play-off games last year despite getting an ample amount of touches. Against Houston, he totaled just 60 yards on the ground on 21 carries and caught 4 balls for 20 yards. He also fumbled. And against NE, he ran for 67 yards on 21 carries and caught one pass for 11 yards. Looking back, I thought Ricky Williams ran better on the 6 carries he received in both games.

The previous year, his stats were solid against KC with 99 yards on 22 touches and a receiving TD. But anyone who watched that game knows the running game struggled most of it and Rice was allowed to walk in on his TD catch thanks to scramble by Joe. In the divisional game against Pittsburgh, Rice had 64 yards on 19 touches and a TD run. Beyond his impressive TD in the 1st, his most notable play the rest of the game was the momentum-swinging fumble.

I have nothing against Ray. I love that's he's on the team and will be for a while. But it would be nice if he ripped off some bigger plays in the play-offs like we know he's capable of doing.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1353076423' post='1220216']


I clearly wrote "relative non-factor". But since you want to pretend it's never happened, I'll beak them down:

He was painfully quiet in both play-off games last year despite getting an ample amount of touches. Against Houston, he totaled just 60 yards on the ground on 21 carries and caught 4 balls for 20 yards. He also fumbled. And against NE, he ran for 67 yards on 21 carries and caught one pass for 11 yards. Looking back, I thought Ricky Williams ran better on the 6 carries he received in both games.

The previous year, his stats were solid against KC with 99 yards on 22 touches and a receiving TD. But anyone who watched that game knows the running game struggled most of it and Rice was allowed to walk in on his TD catch thanks to scramble by Joe. In the divisional game against Pittsburgh, Rice had 64 yards on 19 touches and a TD run. Beyond his impressive TD in the 1st, his most notable play the rest of the game was the momentum-swinging fumble.

I have nothing against Ray. I love that's he's on the team and will be for a while. But it would be nice if he ripped off some bigger plays in the play-offs like we know he's capable of doing.
[/quote]or at least got us four yards a pop consistently to help move the chains

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1353101042' post='1220502']
or at least got us four yards a pop consistently to help move the chains
[/quote]
Yeah, in the AFC championship game we got 3 yards a carry. But no one doubts ray, even though he's disappeared as much as flacco

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1353076423' post='1220216']


I clearly wrote "relative non-factor". But since you want to pretend it's never happened, I'll beak them down:

He was painfully quiet in both play-off games last year despite getting an ample amount of touches. Against Houston, he totaled just 60 yards on the ground on 21 carries and caught 4 balls for 20 yards. He also fumbled. And against NE, he ran for 67 yards on 21 carries and caught one pass for 11 yards. Looking back, I thought Ricky Williams ran better on the 6 carries he received in both games.

The previous year, his stats were solid against KC with 99 yards on 22 touches and a receiving TD. But anyone who watched that game knows the running game struggled most of it and Rice was allowed to walk in on his TD catch thanks to scramble by Joe. In the divisional game against Pittsburgh, Rice had 64 yards on 19 touches and a TD run. Beyond his impressive TD in the 1st, his most notable play the rest of the game was the momentum-swinging fumble.

I have nothing against Ray. I love that's he's on the team and will be for a while. But it would be nice if he ripped off some bigger plays in the play-offs like we know he's capable of doing.
[/quote]
Man, I hate you for reminding me about Rice's poor production in the AFCCG. Williams was running like he was on fire and Rice got the ball and got bottled up. We should've kept Williams in. I said it then, and now I remember it and I am saying it again. My biggest problem with Rice is he goes down so easy sometimes. I see him trip over his own blockers a lot more than I would like. Pierce gashes people for yards, it seems. Not sure if it's because he is new and they aren't used to his style.

Regardless, Rice needs to step up his game.

[SecretAgentMan]

Matt Ryan lost to the first decent team he has played all year...... We lost to the best team in the NFL, and a hot Philly team who at the time were SB contenders....... Advantage Flacco. And I will keep saying this
Wins>Stats(Tho this in theory makes Tebow a good QB)

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353137379' post='1220718']
Matt Ryan lost to the first decent team he has played all year...... We lost to the best team in the NFL, and a hot Philly team who at the time were SB contenders....... Advantage Flacco. And I will keep saying this
Wins>Stats(Tho this in theory makes Tebow a good QB)
[/quote]

Just wanted to chime. Perhaps I've misunderstood this post, but it sounds a little contradictory. If wins are the only important factor, and the Falcons' record is 8-1 compared to our 7-2, then the advantage can't go to Flacco. I also doubt that the Eagles could've been considered a hot team at the time, given that they barely escaped the Browns by the skin of their teeth the week before. And while the Falcons have enjoyed an easy road, they have beaten a noteworthy team in Denver, so the Saints shouldn't be counted as their first decent opponent. Lastly, I feel that wins are sometimes overused when comparing QBs, as it is a team sport. However, if we're talking strictly this season, then at this point, Ryan has the advantage in both wins and stats. But it all could change down the road, especially when the Playoffs come about.

[redrum52]

Flacco wins the sb then we will see how the critics hop on the bandwagon.

[poescrows]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']
First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote] THAT was exactly my point about Peyton. Apparently you missed the point of my post. If he were here, he'd have to be playing CAMs offense, thus, his numbers would be worse.

[The Raven flys tonight]

[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1351473186' post='1205217']
Well we won't findnout till Cam is gone!
[/quote]

Why are so many posters so anti-Cam? Has there been any other offensive coordinator in the history of the Ravens that has done so much better than him?

[poescrows]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1352757895' post='1216971']
You think Peyton would listen to Cam? Your out of your mind, he is his own OC, always has been. Our recievers are pretty close to his in overall skill, but add out tight ends and rice out of the backfield, and his numbers would go WAY up.
[/quote] No, they wouldn't. You're missing the point of my post, so I'll try again. If Peyton was here, he wouldn't be his own OC. He'd run the plays Cam called in with very few exceptions. You can add Rice and our tightends, but you'd have to take away ALL of Peytons play calling at the line, you'd have to take away any of Peyton's input on game planning, and last year, you'd have to take away him even having a QB coach. Still think his numbers wouldn't go down?

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='The Raven flys tonight' timestamp='1353190039' post='1221002']
Why are so many posters so anti-Cam? Has there been any other offensive coordinator in the history of the Ravens that has done so much better than him?
[/quote]

It's because Cam's hit his ceiling.

Cam is a good coordinator for rebuilding an offense. However, history has shown that Cam also has only enough ability to help an offense excel; look at his time in San Diego with Drew Brees and a record-setting LaDainian Tomlinson.

That offense, combined with that defense, had no reason not to win at least one championship. Cam's playbook sputtered when it mattered most.

[rlh445]

[quote name='The Raven flys tonight' timestamp='1353190039' post='1221002']
Why are so many posters so anti-Cam? Has there been any other offensive coordinator in the history of the Ravens that has done so much better than him?
[/quote]

Look at this guy over here with one post, asking about Cam hate.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1353137379' post='1220718']
Matt Ryan lost to the first decent team he has played all year...... We lost to the best team in the NFL, and [b]a hot Philly team who at the time were SB contenders[/b]....... Advantage Flacco. And I will keep saying this
Wins>Stats(Tho this in theory makes Tebow a good QB)
[/quote] At the time? You mean week 2? After a 1 point margin over the Browns?
We were just a bad matchup against Philly. But don't make it sound like something it wasn't. We had bad games, bad halves, bad quarters... had bad calls that might've impacted the outcome. But ultimately we lost two games and they lost one. All the other details wash away over time.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1353191169' post='1221015']
Look at this guy over here with one post, asking about Cam hate.
[/quote]


Maybe it's him. :-)

[display name]

When a thread stays alive for long enough, it always turns into a Cam thread.

[arnie_uk]

It's pretty obvious its not settled yet. When Ryan is off he's worse than Joe. And hes had a few off games this year.

[usmccharles]

I hate to play the cam card...but i am. I think Joe could be a lot better with new OC, maybe even turner after he gets fired this year. But one other thing is look at ryans weapons: roddy white, julio jones, Tony G, really? thats an awesome setup for an offense. Now im not saying our wr corps is horrible, but i think its obvious they have a better setup and their weapons are used correctly.

[H8R]

Matty Luke-Warm is gonna have to overcome a three pick first half...

[jimmypowder]

Matty ice has 5 picks and climbing !

Joe would be crucified if this happened to him .

[H8R]

[quote name='jimmypowder' timestamp='1353272750' post='1221844']
Matty ice has 5 picks and climbing !

Joe would be crucified if this happened to him .
[/quote]

Yea... but if they somehow win... it's another "4th quarter comeback" . LOL

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1353272817' post='1221851']


Yea... but if they somehow win... it's another "4th quarter comeback" . LOL
[/quote]there needs to be a 4th quarter giveaway. That's what this is

[hawkprey]

The Ravens are 1-13 in games where Flacco throws more than one interception.
The Ravens are 0-4 in games where Flacco throws 3+ picks.

The Falcons are 10-9 in games where Ryan throws more than one interception.
The Falcons are 2-0 in games where Ryan throws 3+ picks (both this season).

Two things you could take away from this:
a. When the Ravens are in a dire situation, Flacco is more prone to throw an interception.
b. The Falcons continue to take more chances in games they are winning, leading to picks that don't change the outcome whereas the Ravens don't take chances in games they are winning.

In either case, the success in the W column is heavily tied to how Joe performs, but not how Matt Ryan performs.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1353274677' post='1221956']
The Ravens are 1-13 in games where Flacco throws more than one interception.
The Ravens are 0-4 in games where Flacco throws 3+ picks.

The Falcons are 10-9 in games where Ryan throws more than one interception.
The Falcons are 2-0 in games where Ryan throws 3+ picks (both this season).

Two things you could take away from this:
a. When the Ravens are in a dire situation, Flacco is more prone to throw an interception.
b. The Falcons continue to take more chances in games they are winning, leading to picks that don't change the outcome whereas the Ravens don't take chances in games they are winning.

[b]In either case, the success in the W column is heavily tied to how Joe performs, but not how Matt Ryan performs[/b].
[/quote]

I think that's more theory. Stats never tell the whole story, and neither does one guy.

[jimmypowder]

Matty Ice is the savior . He won with 5 picks !

Why is it as a Ravens fan I can't stand this guy with all his
theatrics at the line ? I'm not sure who I dislike the most , Matty Ice or
Phillip Rivers.

[H8R]

Flacco has NEVER had a 5 pick game....

[BirdWatcher]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1353275968' post='1222033']
Flacco has NEVER had a 5 pick game....
[/quote]

Knock on wood.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1353274677' post='1221956']
The Ravens are 1-13 in games where Flacco throws more than one interception.
The Ravens are 0-4 in games where Flacco throws 3+ picks.

The Falcons are 10-9 in games where Ryan throws more than one interception.
The Falcons are 2-0 in games where Ryan throws 3+ picks (both this season).

Two things you could take away from this:
a. When the Ravens are in a dire situation, Flacco is more prone to throw an interception.
b. The Falcons continue to take more chances in games they are winning, leading to picks that don't change the outcome whereas the Ravens don't take chances in games they are winning.

In either case, the success in the W column is heavily tied to how Joe performs, but not how Matt Ryan performs.
[/quote]youve totally misinterpreted them stats. Flacco is inclined to throw more ints in dire situations, we get into dire situations when he plays bad and throws interceptions. And 6 of the aforementioned 8 interceptions ryan has had have been in the first half. So b is also wrong.

[Crabcakes&Football]

Look at Matt Ryan, overcoming his 5 interceptions to lead them to a win!

[ghost1986]

No. Neither has won a Super Bowl so neither is better than the other. I'm happy with Flacco. Has he made mistakes? Sure. But not all of them are his fault.

[H8R]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1353276002' post='1222035']


Knock on wood.
[/quote]

true, that's a tough task... throwing 5 picks.