At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

[PolishRifle]

This is the 5th season for Flacco with Cam. The progress Ryan made with an all new OC was amazing. Regardless of any success we might or might not experience this season Harbaugh needs to consider pushing Flaccos development forward. This season is in my opinion as far as Cam can get Flacco, but judging by Joes performance against NE and Cinci and his performance at home in general, there is still alot room left to grow for our QB.
Again, what Ryan is doing in this season is truely great and it has alot to do with a new OC who brought a fresh new approach to the offense.

[JoeCool#5]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1352651263' post='1214688']
Again, what Ryan is doing in this season is truely great and it has alot to do with a new OC who brought a fresh new approach to the offense.
[/quote]
Totally agree. Joe has learned as much as he can from Cam. Time for some "new blood"

[-Truth-]

[quote name='poescrows' timestamp='1352638567' post='1214625']
Love it when a blowhole gets proven wrong with facts.....good job.
[/quote]

Thank you. I see that we both share a disdain for statements with no evidence and factual support. It's a trait I can very much appreciate.

[poescrows]

For those that still want to bash on Flacco, ask yourself this: If Flacco was in NE, ATL, etc. would his QB numbers be better? Probably yes. And if say, P. Manning, was here would his numbers go down? Probably yes. (remember, if Payton was here, he'd be under, and subject to, CAMS play calling)

[Alexir]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352574399' post='1214386']
Yeah, sadly that bomb was thrown to the defender

I hate to say it, but we made the right choice. Matthews might be using steroids, you dont get to be that big, that fast, in three months. I dont like cheaters.
[/quote][quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352574399' post='1214386']
Yeah, sadly that bomb was thrown to the defender

I hate to say it, but we made the right choice. Matthews might be using steroids, you dont get to be that big, that fast, in three months. I dont like cheaters.
[/quote]

I don't like bold claims with zero proof

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1352695231' post='1216488']


I don't like bold claims with zero proof
[/quote]
Im a biased UCLA fan, so take whatever I say bout USC with a pinch of salt.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='poescrows' timestamp='1352656997' post='1214763']
For those that still want to bash on Flacco, ask yourself this: If Flacco was in NE, ATL, etc. would his QB numbers be better? Probably yes. And if say, P. Manning, was here would his numbers go down? Probably yes. (remember, if Payton was here, he'd be under, and subject to, CAMS play calling)
[/quote]

First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?

[funky141]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']
First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote]
Agree

[callahan09]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']


First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote]

Keep in mind that Peyton does not design the plays. He calls the play, but the play is designed by his offensive coordinator. That's the real area where Cam lacks in skill, is designing effective plays. The play calling at game time is not as bad as we give Cam crap for, and the execution isn't as bad as Cam blames his players for. The problem, and I've been saying this for a long time now, is that Cams play designs themselves don't work. And if Peyton were here, he'd still have to choose from those plays. And his receivers would get little separation, and Peyton would have to wait forever for a play to develop and hope is offensive line can hold, just like Flacco has to do. And when the line can hold long enough for the play to develop, his numbers will be great, but then, so are Flacco's. and when the line can't do it, his numbers won't be great. Peyton has shown a tendency to throw a lot of interceptions under certain circumstances, and in this system, this offense, with the plays he'd have to choose from designed by Cam Cameron, I truly and fully believe that Peyton would have significantly diminished numbers.

[Fang]

Joe has the better post season record of course. But IMO it's the first one that wins a Superbowl gets a leg up in the comparison. Until that time they are just 2 very good QBs from the same draft.

[berad]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']
First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. H[b]e's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college[/b]... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote]

FYI it's Thomas's third year in the league

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']


First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote]

See, what's the point in me even responding to thus, when you hardly ever respond to anyone's responses? I don't think you're completely stupid. You bring up legitimate arguements. But you don't listen to anyone else's. So end of the day, it seems like you're hear just to listen to yourself talk ( or watch your words get typed onto.the screen). Just saying.

[-Truth-]

LaQuan Williams is a Wes Welker clone? Tee hee.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I do not care who would do better or worse in a new city. Joe is our QB and we live or die by him and the fact is we are now 7-2 and living pretty large. Brady could not survive here as he would get hit and maybe brake a nail. On the other hand Peyton makes any team better in the first season he comes aboard. Peyton is like god in the NFL and he changed the way a QB acts. He is his own OC on gameday and can pick apart any defense.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

If Flacco plays like he did yesterday i think we could win 4 of the last 7 games. I think we could stumble playing the Steelers away from home, the broncos ang redskins and that is just because our D has already lost to one mobile QB and RG3 is very mobile and we would need to contain him.

[flipper14]

The thing that very few people seem to mention is that Flacco faces tougher defenses than just about any other quarterback in the league. Last season the Ravens played 11 games against top 10 defenses. It will be close to that again this year. This isn't the Falcons getting to face Tampa, New Orleans, and Carolina six times per year.

[nk02442]

[quote name='poescrows' timestamp='1352656997' post='1214763']
For those that still want to bash on Flacco, ask yourself this: If Flacco was in NE, ATL, etc. would his QB numbers be better? Probably yes. And if say, P. Manning, was here would his numbers go down? Probably yes. (remember, if Payton was here, he'd be under, and subject to, CAMS play calling)
[/quote]

You think Peyton would listen to Cam? Your out of your mind, he is his own OC, always has been. Our recievers are pretty close to his in overall skill, but add out tight ends and rice out of the backfield, and his numbers would go WAY up.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352695460' post='1216493']

Im a biased UCLA fan, so take whatever I say bout USC with a pinch of salt.
[/quote]
Big game this week

Back on topic, the biggest difference I see between Flacco and Ryan is the deep ball. Joe has the strongest arm in the league and has very good touch even on the bombs. Ryan's arm is probably average for an NFL QB. When he throws deep he just chucks the ball a thousand feet in the air and lets one of his uber-talented WRs make a play on it. If Joe had Roddy and Julio he would put up Madden stats. Just look at the trajectory of Ryan's deep passes compared to Flacco.

[berad]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352759218' post='1216988']
Big game this week

Back on topic, the biggest difference I see between Flacco and Ryan is the deep ball. Joe has the strongest arm in the league and has very good touch even on the bombs. [b]Ryan's arm is probably average for an NFL QB. When he throws deep he just chucks the ball a thousand feet in the air and lets one of his uber-talented WRs make a play on it. If Joe had Roddy and Julio he would put up Madden stats. Just look at the trajectory of Ryan's deep passes compared to Flacco.[/b]
[/quote]

Absolutely!

[JoeCool#5]

Ryan has better protection.

Joe looks amazing when he has good protection from his OLine. The same could be said for Rice when he gets good running blocking. As the season progresses, hopefully the unit will gel late in the season for a great post season run.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1352722618' post='1216619']
First of all, no... I don't think Flacco's numbers would be any better in another city.

And secondly... Peyton subject to playcalling? Are you serious? Do you know who you're talking about? Peyton will run the play he wants to run. The guy just knows the game. He can read a defense like an open book. He's getting by right now with a very raw rookie who didn't have a passing offense in college... and he's very prone to either dropping the ball or fumbling once he has caught the ball. After that... he's working with BRANDON FREAKING STOKELY. You know... the guy who was actually playing when Baltimore last made it to the Super Bowl. You're telling me Peyton wouldn't have better numbers with Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, Boldin, possibly using LaQuan Williams as a Wes-Welker type guy... and then... (the words of most people here, not mine) a much better back than McGahee in Ray Rice?!?!?

I understand you love Flacco... but, let's be serious. Peyton Manning's numbers would not be worse playing with this team. And I really don't see any indication that Flacco's numbers would be better elsewhere. I mean... your reasoning is what? Other team's have better receivers? Perhaps they're considered better receivers because they have a better QB?
[/quote]

Yes, because Peyton's really shown something beating the 4-5 Bengals, a Steelers team that started the season 1-2, losing to the only two division leaders he's played, beating up on a Raiders team that apparently anyone should be able to beat since the terrible Joe Flacco shredded them, losing to a Patriots team that same terrible Flacco beat, then beating the Chargers, Saints, and Panthers, teams with a combined 10-17 win-loss record.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352759218' post='1216988']
Big game this week

Back on topic, the biggest difference I see between Flacco and Ryan is the deep ball. Joe has the strongest arm in the league and has very good touch even on the bombs. Ryan's arm is probably average for an NFL QB. When he throws deep he just chucks the ball a thousand feet in the air and lets one of his uber-talented WRs make a play on it. If Joe had Roddy and Julio he would put up Madden stats. Just look at the trajectory of Ryan's deep passes compared to Flacco.
[/quote]
Hundley is going to be the number one pick in a few years, he has a cannon and runs a 4.3 forty at 6'5. 4.3 GPA too.
Anyway, I cant agree more, that ball against the Panthers was soooooooooooooo poorly thrown, Rody got lucky. If he didnt have an uber talented WR I'm telling you average at best.......

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352771773' post='1217168']

Hundley is going to be the number one pick in a few years, he has a cannon and runs a 4.3 forty at 6'5. 4.3 GPA too.
Anyway, I cant agree more, that ball against the Panthers was soooooooooooooo poorly thrown, Rody got lucky. If he didnt have an uber talented WR I'm telling you average at best.......
[/quote]
Hundley is really good. Its crazy what he is doing as a freshman and no one is talking about him either. I cant remember the last time UCLA had a competent QB....at least not since I've been here.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352772184' post='1217181']
Hundley is really good. Its crazy what he is doing as a freshman and no one is talking about him either. I cant remember the last time UCLA had a competent QB....at least not since I've been here.
[/quote]
We had Drew Olson, he was decent, but we cut him in favor of Flacco

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352772308' post='1217187']
We had[b] Drew Olson[/b], he was decent, but we cut him in favor of Flacco
[/quote]

I thought he played in NFL Europe?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1352775375' post='1217302']
I thought he played in NFL Europe?
[/quote]
No, we had him for a short period of time....

[allballs]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1352493915' post='1214089']
I think Flacco has beaten the Steelers the last 3/5 times... It was Ben who was the turn-over machine. What are you even talking about? AllJaws.
[/quote]

yeah, in the regular season, how many times has he beat pit in the playoffs? ben has the jewelry... flacco gave it to him

[H8R]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352841448' post='1218363']


yeah, in the regular season, how many times has he beat pit in the playoffs? ben has the jewelry... flacco gave it to him
[/quote]

Actually, besides the AFCCG in 08, Flacco put the ball on the numbers and WRs failed to reel in said ball. Joe, being the scape goat. Furthemore, Darren Stone single handily cost us that game.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352841448' post='1218363']
yeah, in the regular season, how many times has he beat pit in the playoffs? ben has the jewelry... flacco gave it to him
[/quote]

You obviously don't watch much Ravens/Steelers games.

[sliceanddic3]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352841448' post='1218363']


yeah, in the regular season, how many times has he beat pit in the playoffs? ben has the jewelry... flacco gave it to him
[/quote]
No. Not this again! Flacco finally beats the Steelers in 2009 (without Ben and in Bmore) excuses say, can't win with Ben or in Pit!!1 Finally wins in Pittsburgh (without Ben) excuses say, can't beat them without Ben!!1 Finally beats Steelers with Ben in Pittsburgh, excuses say, can't beat them in the playoffs!!1 When will it end with this nonsense?!