At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

[Finally]

[quote name='ROH522155' timestamp='1352418758' post='1213538']
Anyone who says the'd rather lose playoff games than win them is ridiculous and is obviously just trying to justify their team's playoff failures.
[/quote]

I want to win them. I just want to win them all. In lieu of that, I want whatever encourages us to make the changes needed to improve our chances next year. I am sick of waiting.

Oh and just to clear something up. If we win a playoff game this year I will be celebrating like mad, but only as long as we are still in the race. If we don't go the distance I will be as angry as I was last year.

[CalvinSmoke]

After reading the comments that our team made about Carson Palmer... i couldn't help but think that people say the exact same things about our boy Joe

[jaege]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352417866' post='1213523']
I have already answered the part about defending Ryan's clutch gene in my reply to your mod.

If you are happy with your team and are prepared to keep taking stabs at the post season with all the same coordinators and philosophies... fine. There is nothing major to fix on a team that was in the AFCCG game last year, right? You are content. Celebrate away.

I'd rather be one and done and keep putting pressure on this organization to fix the problems. In fact, if we are not going to win it all we should just do a repeat of last year. I don't want to get anywhere near the NFCCG and have them thinking we should go offense early in the draft next year. Our best pass rusher was talking about retirement last year and we still haven't found a suitable replacement for the last one we lost in FA after the 2006 season. We got an important Dlineman back after the Bye so the jury is out on our run stopping defense right now. They haven't looked bad this year and they have made some good plays but I am not sure they are playoff ready yet or not. It is too soon with a new coordinator and we haven't been 100 percent healthy in some key areas. All I can do is hope that Nolan can scheme around the problems and help get us to the promise land. If not, next year they should just hand him the checkbook and let him find us the players we need.

ETA: I didn't answer your point on being 0-16. Yeah that would be worse because we have a team of losers. What we have now is a team of winners with the potential to do what hasn't been done before. You have the potential to win it all this year too. Not bad places to be midseason.
[/quote]

You like so many others on this forum do have a habit of making sweeping assumptions or just fabricating things out of thin air. I defy you to show where I said I was content. Or where I said there were no problems or nothing needed to be fixed. Or anywhere that I EVER made any sort of claim or even implied that we didnt have to replace a coordinator. There is a huge difference between pride and contentment. They are in the dictionary. Look them up.

As to you. Now you would rather get to the playoffs and be one and done, then to get all the way to the FCCG? If you do not make it to the FCCG then you have [u]no[/u] chance of winning it. You do realize that. [b]Any[/b] team can win, if just by a fluke. Contrary to popular opinion, the best team[u] does not [/u]win the SB every year. (example; Giants last season, they were hardly the best) Often that fluke dumps the best team in the playoffs. I would rather my team was dragged half dead into the big game than not go at all. That is the ONLY way to win the trophy. No other way. It is not possible.

So if YOU are [i]content[/i] to sit and watch another team play the FCCG and bide your time hoping your team waits for the "right" moment, well more power to you. Me, I want to see my team deep in the playoffs year after year, because every year they are in the playoffs, is another year they may win the SB. It is the only way it is going to happen.

I think that if the team does go to the FCCG and loses the FO is smart enough to figure out the same strengths and weaknesses that you or I see. They are probably smarter about it. They have been doing it for a long time after all.


Edit: Having read all your posts, I see that you are...sort of a pessimist. If you cant win it all you dont want to win any. Or dont care whether you win or not. You are losing sight of the reality of the situation, that I pointed out above. You HAVE to get into the playoffs in order to get to the SB. There is no way around that. Also, winning your division IS a win. A laudable win. Many would consider that a success. And certainly winning the FCCG is a win. I am assuming you do not consider those successes. To each his own. Personally I have a t-shirt commemorating last years divisional sweep and win. Sure I want to win the SB but only one team gets to once a year so I take the wins I get. Your veiw leads to being angry, upset and depressed.

[jaege]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1352418747' post='1213537']
It wasn't the defense that failed to score any points against the Giants last year...

And, yes, I still think you're being dishonest. Would you trade one of Matt Ryan's beloved 4th quarter comebacks for a playoff win. Or would it still not matter? It's great that the Falcons overcame Petrino and Vick but that was 6 years ago, every franchise has their own trials and tribulations but no one is okay with 0 playoff success - especially in the upper tier of teams.
[/quote]

No he has already answered that. He would rather lose the first playoff game year after year than win one, fearing that the FO of the Falcons would be too stupid to realize that they need to make changes. Without his wise council, of course.

[Finally]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1352462958' post='1213795']
Edit: Having read all your posts, I see that you are...sort of a pessimist. If you cant win it all you dont want to win any. Or dont care whether you win or not. You are losing sight of the reality of the situation, that I pointed out above. You HAVE to get into the playoffs in order to get to the SB. There is no way around that. Also, winning your division IS a win. A laudable win. Many would consider that a success. And certainly winning the FCCG is a win. I am assuming you do not consider those successes. To each his own. Personally I have a t-shirt commemorating last years divisional sweep and win. Sure I want to win the SB but only one team gets to once a year so I take the wins I get. Your veiw leads to being angry, upset and depressed.
[/quote]

I was more of a pessimist pre-2008. What you should really take from my posts is that I am tired of waiting. I celebrate winning the division just like every fan. I don't knock that.

I also agree that you have to get into the playoffs to have a shot, you have to win in the playoffs to advance, and I wouldn't care if we had third stringers playing, any shot at taking the NFC Championship and moving to a SB is still a shot. I just believe that falling short is falling short. Whether it happens in the first game or in the championship round. It is another wasted opportunity and a wasted season.

To your other point about putting words in your mouth I did no such thing. I did suggest that while you were celebrating winning playoff games that the ramification is that your organization is very close and probably would not make any major changes. You might get lucky and one of your coordinators is hired away but I don't think one of them getting fired is likely. Alternatively I have something to celebrate because we have 2 new coordinators this year and the immediate dividend is an 8-0 start. Sometimes a loss is just what is needed and if the Falcons have improved because of it, it is more valuable than a win. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have rather won and advanced but if we were not a SB capable team then maybe we are closer now.

I also agree that the best teams don't always win SBs. At the same time teams with bad defenses have a hard time getting there at all.

We are fans of different teams. If I had only ever been a Ravens fan I would probably have a different outlook. If you had only ever been a Falcons fan you might have a different outlook. I am sorry that I don't care more about your playoff wins or how that impacts the whole Flacco vs Ryan nonsense. I am happy you are less jaded.

I do believe with the right supporting cast Ryan will win us a SB and hopefully this year. That will hopefully change my outlook.

[atljbo]

Players MVP Vote



[url="http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-11-09/matt-ryan-offensive-mvp-poll-sporting-news-sn-peyton-manning"]http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-11-09/matt-ryan-offensive-mvp-poll-sporting-news-sn-peyton-manning[/url]

[quote]“Matt Ryan. He is 7-0 (now 8-0), right? That’s perfection. You can’t get any better than that.”
[b]—Ravens OLB Terrell Suggs[/b]

“Matt Ryan. He has the ability to kind of really take over games as far as with his arm and leadership. He has a big-time arm, but his leadership shows up in the fourth quarter. You can see it. That’s huge.”
[b]—Steelers G Willie Colon[/b][/quote]

[allballs]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1352395987' post='1213300']
Joe did his Job last year, did he not get the game winning run down field just to have Evans drop the ball or is that joe's fault as well. What a waste of a post. Joe got the job done. It was Cundiff and Evans that failed or am i wrong. We have a Quarterback that may not play well all of the time but he usually is not the reason we lose. So tired of all of the ravens failures falling into Joe's lap. I guess Joe is the Offensive line, the receivers and the Field Goal Kicker right ?
[/quote]
right! because he's the so-called leader of the team, but show's no fire! you people keep makin excuses for slacko, and he wants to be elite, then do what elite qbs do, run the wrong route for those mannings or brady or brees and you see how they react, and then when they make a mistake, they accept that, you seen brady and his OC goin at it, but they have the jewelry also, and the team (especially notable defensive players) always support him, then he's goes on record, slighting them, get him out of baltimore man....i give you this, our season's gonna come down to the two games vs pit, we know it, they know it. thats all they're thinkn about, it will determine the 1, 2, or 3 seed...the trend continues... i guarantee, flacco will turn over the ball vs pit, say he won't, you know he will...

[H8R]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352492609' post='1214069']
right! because he's the so-called leader of the team, but show's no fire! you people keep makin excuses for slacko, and he wants to be elite, then do what elite qbs do, run the wrong route for those mannings or brady or brees and you see how they react, and then when they make a mistake, they accept that, you seen brady and his OC goin at it, but they have the jewelry also, and the team (especially notable defensive players) always support him, then he's goes on record, slighting them, get him out of baltimore man....i give you this, our season's gonna come down to the two games vs pit, we know it, they know it. thats all they're thinkn about, it will determine the 1, 2, or 3 seed...the trend continues... i guarantee, flacco will turn over the ball vs pit, say he won't, you know he will...
[/quote]

I think Flacco has beaten the Steelers the last 3/5 times... It was Ben who was the turn-over machine. What are you even talking about? AllJaws.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352492609' post='1214069']

right! because he's the so-called leader of the team, but show's no fire! you people keep makin excuses for slacko, and he wants to be elite, then do what elite qbs do, run the wrong route for those mannings or brady or brees and you see how they react, and then when they make a mistake, they accept that, you seen brady and his OC goin at it, but they have the jewelry also, and the team (especially notable defensive players) always support him, then he's goes on record, slighting them, get him out of baltimore man....i give you this, our season's gonna come down to the two games vs pit, we know it, they know it. thats all they're thinkn about, it will determine the 1, 2, or 3 seed...the trend continues... i guarantee, flacco will turn over the ball vs pit, say he won't, you know he will...
[/quote]

I don't see Eli Manning chewing his recievers out... or do I not watch enough Giants football? Roethlisberger doesn't chew his boys out either. But again I could just be off base

[Finally]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1352494310' post='1214094']
I don't see Eli Manning chewing his recievers out... or do I not watch enough Giants football? Roethlisberger doesn't chew his boys out either. But again I could just be off base
[/quote]

I have seen Eli get frustrated and I have seen him talk to his receivers after a blown play but it never seemed like he was yelling at them. I might have missed something somewhere too but it always seemed like he was just trying to figure out what went wrong.

The games I have seen of Flacco, he is doing what other QBs do. He encourages his offense to do their jobs, motivates them, and praises them he just doesn't do it in a big way. He could probably stand to be less subtle since it is a passionate game but it doesn't mean he is less of a leader. But, again, I haven't seen that many games so he may have bigger leader moments in others.

[Alexir]

I would still take Ryan over Joe honestly. I think he is a smarter quarterback and I think he is very fast cycling through his reads.

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1352501151' post='1214158']
I would still take Ryan over Joe honestly. I think he is a smarter quarterback and I think he is very fast cycling through his reads.
[/quote]Your right, but I'd rather sulk over someone that we actually could have drafted... like how we chose Mark Clayton over Rodgers

[jaege]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1352486868' post='1214000']
I was more of a pessimist pre-2008. What you should really take from my posts is that I am tired of waiting. I celebrate winning the division just like every fan. I don't knock that.

I also agree that you have to get into the playoffs to have a shot, you have to win in the playoffs to advance, and I wouldn't care if we had third stringers playing, any shot at taking the NFC Championship and moving to a SB is still a shot. I just believe that falling short is falling short. Whether it happens in the first game or in the championship round. It is another wasted opportunity and a wasted season.

To your other point about putting words in your mouth I did no such thing. I did suggest that while you were celebrating winning playoff games that the ramification is that your organization is very close and probably would not make any major changes. You might get lucky and one of your coordinators is hired away but I don't think one of them getting fired is likely. Alternatively I have something to celebrate because we have 2 new coordinators this year and the immediate dividend is an 8-0 start. Sometimes a loss is just what is needed and if the Falcons have improved because of it, it is more valuable than a win. That doesn't mean I wouldn't have rather won and advanced but if we were not a SB capable team then maybe we are closer now.

I also agree that the best teams don't always win SBs. At the same time teams with bad defenses have a hard time getting there at all.

We are fans of different teams. If I had only ever been a Ravens fan I would probably have a different outlook. If you had only ever been a Falcons fan you might have a different outlook. I am sorry that I don't care more about your playoff wins or how that impacts the whole Flacco vs Ryan nonsense. I am happy you are less jaded.

I do believe with the right supporting cast Ryan will win us a SB and hopefully this year. That will hopefully change my outlook.
[/quote]

Hmmm. Okay, I hear what you are saying, and the thing that confuses me is this; you claim that anything less then an SB win is a failure, you in fact admit that you are so jaded that regardless of the teams standing, unless they have that trophy that you are upset and consider it a wasted season. Yet you are so stoked about some "football" accomplishment of Ryan that you come onto an opposing teams forum to tout it up. Why? If anything less than an SB is meaningless, then those statistics are as well. Hey, he may have accomplished something that no other QB has but it didn't win the SB, right? Why even defend Ryan against all the bashers? By your own admitted standards, he has wasted numerous seasons because he has failed to bring home the trophy.

It seems obvious that you are very disingenuous. Honestly, doesn't it?

[Alexir]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1352502552' post='1214177']
Your right, but I'd rather sulk over someone that we actually could have drafted... like how we chose Mark Clayton over Rodgers
[/quote]

Ugh. Dont remind me.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1352529034' post='1214278']
Ugh. Dont remind me.
[/quote]

We had that one guy tht could throw 70 yarders from his knees....

[wayne]

Only thing I can side with Finally with is it does hurt to go far into the playoffs ( 1-2 wins ) for the sake of the draft the next season. Of course, as a fan, anyone wants to see their team go as far as they can in the playoffs but if you could see into the future as far as your NFL team, if you knew that they wouldn't win the SB, would you rather your team not make the playoffs or lose the first game in the playoffs knowing that you will acquire a better pick the next season, or would you still want your team to go as far as they can until they lose?

Seriously, it hurts both ways with your team winning playoff games but not winning the SB and not winning playoff games but the team that didn't win a playoff game is obviously set up better for next season with a higher draft pick which can be the biggest difference between getting a stud or not who could put you over the hump.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1352529873' post='1214283']
We had that one guy tht could throw 70 yarders from his knees....
[/quote]

Couldn't we of had Clay Matthews instead of Oher as well??

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1352529873' post='1214283']
We had that one guy tht could throw 70 yarders from his knees....
[/quote]
Yeah, sadly that bomb was thrown to the defender
[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1352559966' post='1214319']
Couldn't we of had Clay Matthews instead of Oher as well??
[/quote]
I hate to say it, but we made the right choice. Matthews might be using steroids, you dont get to be that big, that fast, in three months. I dont like cheaters.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1352303166' post='1212702']
To the people saying the weapons dont matter.... Really??

question for you then, who would you take?



Roddy White or Anquan Boldin?

Julio Jones or Torrey Smith?

Tony Gonzalez or Dennis Pitta?

and Michael Turner or Ray Rice?

If you'd take a Raven in any question other than Rice right now I dont think you're being honest with yourself. I'd prob take Pitta for upside and youth, but im talking about right now.

Yes the QB does have to get the ball to those weapons, but the weapons DO matter. Only the elite guys like Brady and Manning make weapons, everyone else need weapons.
[/quote]

I agree but I would take Torrey over Julio too. Just being honest.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352395105' post='1213289']


wow, flacco hasnt done much in the playoffs, and you admitted that, i commend you. it proves my point, to the fact that joe flacco has cost us in the playoffs as well, i mean game changing-moment swaying-outcome influencing turnovers! i told you do your research first man. i'll help you, pit 09, indy 10, pit 11..., and i still have to fault him in 12 v/s pats, because of the pic he threw to a wide open Takeo Spikes, had we scored on that drive, we would have won the superbowl.... i guarantee you, if joe doesnt TO, we win, idc how bad his numbers get, as longs as the TO column is 0! yeah he had 300+ vs pats(12 playoffs), but the 1 pic really changed the game...
[/quote]

And it's still one of the more foolish and unsupported comments made on this board in recent times. We intercepted the ball on the very next play. What did it change? 10 seconds off the clock? If we're playing the hypothetical game in relation to failing to score, how taking into account the most obvious ones. Like Lee Evans dropping the TD and Billy Cundiff missing a chip-shot FG. Lastly, it was Brandon Spikes, not Takeo. Do you even know who was on the field?

[SecretAgentMan]

New Topic bc of the fact that I live in 49er country...
The Smith/Flacco debate
I know this is laughable, but these people wont shut up. Honestly lets be real
Flacco>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Smith
Flacco is my number 6 QB. and let me settle everything else
Flacco>Freeman
Flacco > Ryan
Flacco> Shaub.......

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1352395105' post='1213289']
wow, flacco hasnt done much in the playoffs, and you admitted that, i commend you. it proves my point, to the fact that joe flacco has cost us in the playoffs as well, i mean game changing-moment swaying-outcome influencing turnovers! i told you do your research first man. i'll help you, pit 09, indy 10, pit 11..., and i still have to fault him in 12 v/s pats, because of the pic he threw to a wide open Takeo Spikes, had we scored on that drive, we would have won the superbowl.... i guarantee you, if joe doesnt TO, we win, idc how bad his numbers get, as longs as the TO column is 0! yeah he had 300+ vs pats(12 playoffs), but the 1 pic really changed the game...
[/quote]
How many times must I say..... His players screw up around him
If Evans holds onto the ball then we go to the SB.
If Haushka makes that kick then we come back by 30
If Housh holds onto it, we get 4 more tries.
Brady had 2 INTs and still won..... That doesnt matter. We got the ball right back after that.

[herostyle]

Do you guys think Flacco will pass 4,000 yards this season? I really hope he will.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='herostyle' timestamp='1352588612' post='1214460']
Do you guys think Flacco will pass 4,000 yards this season? I really hope he will.
[/quote]
He was on pace for 5,000... So yeah.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352574399' post='1214386']
I hate to say it, but we made the right choice. Matthews might be using steroids, you dont get to be that big, that fast, in three months. I dont like cheaters.
[/quote]

I'd have to disagree. We absolutely did not. He hasn't gone through any drastic physical changes to make that assumption. Clay Matthews weighed in at 240 at the Combine. After 3 1/2 years in the NFL, he currently weighs in at 255, which isn't that significant of a difference considering that working out has been a part of his profession for quite some time. He didn't improve much in speed, and he didn't have to, running in the 4.5's at his Pro Day, a blazing number for an LB. There's been no evidence of him cheating, so it's unfair to simply assume that he is. He was seen as a first round talent before he was selected, and it was for a reason. If we had the chance at a re-do, I wouldn't even blink.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352598423' post='1214548']
I'd have to disagree. We absolutely did not. He hasn't gone through any drastic physical changes to make that assumption. Clay Matthews weighed in at 240 at the Combine. After 3 1/2 years in the NFL, he currently weighs in at 255, which isn't that significant of a difference considering that working out has been a part of his profession for quite some time. He didn't improve much in speed, and he didn't have to, running in the 4.5's at his Pro Day, a blazing number for an LB. There's been no evidence of him cheating, so it's unfair to simply assume that he is. He was seen as a first round talent before he was selected, and it was for a reason. If we had the chance at a re-do, I wouldn't even blink.
[/quote]
I meant in college, he might have shared with his teammate Cushing.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352598618' post='1214550']
I meant in college, he might have shared with his teammate Cushing.
[/quote]

I'm not too familiar with his back story. But that's still pure speculation. Obviously, I can't prove whether he did or he didn't. However, I don't think it's reasonable to condemn him as a past prospect and as a player because of something that currently doesn't have any proof behind it.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352598618' post='1214550']
I meant in college, he might have shared with his teammate Cushing.
[/quote]

That is an asinine assumption.

[poescrows]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352580222' post='1214410']
And it's still one of the more foolish and unsupported comments made on this board in recent times. We intercepted the ball on the very next play. What did it change? 10 seconds off the clock? If we're playing the hypothetical game in relation to failing to score, how taking into account the most obvious ones. Like Lee Evans dropping the TD and Billy Cundiff missing a chip-shot FG. Lastly, it was Brandon Spikes, not Takeo. Do you even know who was on the field?
[/quote] Love it when a blowhole gets proven wrong with facts.....good job.

[Ravenslifer]

Seriously, I would like someone to look up how many times Matt Ryan is on the field with 3+ receivers or 2+ tight ends vs. Joe. I am curious to see how many different formations the Falcons come out with on offense in one game vs. the Ravens. It seems to me the Ravens come out and score early, then never again, especially in the second half. Could it be that, gasp, teams actually adjust to our offense at half time and our offense doesn't adjust back? And that, maybe, Matt Ryan and other quarterbacks look so good throughout the course of an entire game because they are allowed to make adjustments on the offense, while our offense NEVER adjusts?