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At This Point In The Season, Has the Flacco/Ryan Debate Been Answered?

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Everyone knows the story how they came in together, constantly compared, etc. I think the debate raged on who was better because they both have winning overall records. Joe is set apart by his postseason record.

With the way Ryan has played, it seems this season may answer, once and for all, who is the better QB. I personally don't like the Falcons and hate to see them winning. It also disappoints me to see Ryan having success when Joe is struggling. I asked myself if I could see Flacco making some of those plays.

I realize they have very different supporting casts. So.....has this question been finally answered?
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Until Mr. Ryan does something in the postseason, his pretty stats don't matter as much. Don't get me wrong, he's definitley played better than Joe so far this season, but there are alot of factors that go into it for me.

I'd still take Joe over him.
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In statistics, Ryan has always been, and will always be better.
However, he has more talent around him, including a decent O-line, plus crappy defenses and two domes (including his team's) in his division.
And his team has never won a postseason game while he was there.
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Agreed with both. I'd still take Joe over Ryan anyday and I don't intend to bash either. But it's disheartening to see someone so often compared to our guy succeed. I think Ryan has a lot to prove and I don't believe in the Falcons to be honest. I'm still waiting for them to start to flop.
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Throwing to Tony Gonzalez, Roddy White and Julio Jones makes a HUGE difference! That, and playing in a dome with controlled climate. : )
Ryan is more consistent then Joe though, no doubt.
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i really like what Deion Sanders said a few moments ago about QB's and their "weapons." he stated; [i][b]"a lot of people say; "we have weapons, we have weapons. you don't have weapons unless you have a quarterback! you really don't! because the quarterback ensures your weapons!"[/b][/i]

that being said; we know who Ryan throws to (i.e. Gonzalez, Jones and White etc.) BUT how about Flacco? he throws to: Boldin, Torrey, Jones, Pitta, Dickson and Rice. not bad weapons either. so, what is the difference? sure, we can say the system, the dome (lol), the o-line or the defense etc. but imo, it seems like it will always come back to the QB himself! that's the difference!

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1351472151' post='1205208']
i really like what Deion Sanders said a few moments ago about QB's and their "weapons." he stated; [i][b]"a lot of people say; "we have weapons, we have weapons. you don't have weapons unless you have a quarterback! you really don't! because the quarterback ensures your weapons!"[/b][/i]

that being said; we know who Ryan throws to (i.e. Gonzalez, Jones and White etc.) BUT how about Flacco? he throws to: Boldin, Torrey, Jones, Pitta, Dickson and Rice. not bad weapons either. so, what is the difference? sure, we can say the system, the dome (lol), the o-line or the defense etc. but imo, it seems like it will always come back to the QB himself! that's the difference!

~Mili
[/quote]

I agree man. It definitely doesn't feel good to watch Ryan dominate and see Flacco playing poorly. Joe definitely has a higher ceiling but honestly it's time to stop talking about potential. Today, Ryan is a better quarterback. That's the result of a variety of factors, but it is what it is.

EDIT: Although I will say at this point it disappoints me to see good football in general, lol.
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[quote name='berad' timestamp='1351472833' post='1205213']
[u][b]Ed Dickson is not a weapon.[/b][/u] This season he may have dropped as many balls as he's caught...
[/quote]

you know what i meant B! personnel man, personnel! :D

~Mili
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With all of this debate -- if the quarterbacks were switched. Ryan on the Ravens, and Flacco on the Falcons -- would people think Flacco is better because of the receivers on the Falcons?

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[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1351473186' post='1205217']
Well we won't findnout till Cam is gone!
[/quote]

I used to think that but right now im not sure. Cam has his problems but Joe has his problems as well its not cam fault all the time
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Weapons, we have weapons. To compare to Julio/Roddy. We have Torrey/Q. We have a $40 million dollar weapon in Ray Rice. A pretty reliable TE, with excellent hands in Pitta. To bring out the weapons argument is irrelevant.
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For now Ryan looks like the best QB in the league. Joe, unfortunetly, looks pretty average by now. He still struggles with problems, that stand in his way to become more consistent like converting 3rd downs, the struggles on the road and sometimes he even has problems finding receivers in the end zone. All these were issues coming into the season and no progress can be seen as of yet.
Don't get me wrong. I love Flacco and I support him. I hope Joe wins that Ryan vs Flacco conversation, but right now the Falcons are the only undefeated team left in the NFL and Ryan played a big part in that success.


[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1351473186' post='1205217']
Well we won't findnout till Cam is gone!
[/quote]

Can't blame it all on Cam. However I do agree, that Cameron has taken Joe as far as he can. Bringing in a new OC helped the Falcons out a lot.
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Ryan would get eaten alive in the AFC North. He can't throw outside when the weather gets cold and he gets pumped by Pittsburgh everytime he plays them. Dude threw up a fat goose egg in New York last year and actually gave more points to the Giants than he scored.

Until Ryan wins a post season game and until he wins a post season game played [b][i]outside[/i][/b], I'll ride with Flacco.

But that doesn't mean Flacco's inconsistency doesn't piss me off lol.
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Have they ever played on a level playing field? IMO no matter what the weapons around them, every single year of their careers Matt Ryan has played an easier schedule. I hate how everyone seems to throw that out of the window when comparing the two. For four of five years he's been in the league, Joe has faced a Steelers team ranked top 5 in passing defense twice a year, and twice in the playoffs as well. I believe last year we swept the AFC North and all three of our opponents finished in the top 10 in passing defense, in fact overall I believe that of the 18 games including the playoffs Joe played last year, 13 were against teams that finished the regular season in the top 10 in passing defense. Last year three of the AFC South teams finished 20th or worse in passing defense, and none finished in the top 10. I think the only top 10 defense Brady faced until us was Pittsburgh, and he lost to them. Fact is, playing in the AFC North means just about every quarterback here will face tough secondaries and tough passing defenses. Besides, anyone think it's a coincidence that Ryan's numbers took off AFTER he got a new offensive coordinator, and this was after a lot of us thought his old one wasn't so bad.
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1351475118' post='1205231']
For now Ryan looks like the best QB in the league. Joe, unfortunetly, looks pretty average by now. He still struggles with problems, that stand in his way to become more consistent like converting 3rd downs, the struggles on the road and sometimes he even has problems finding receivers in the end zone. All these were issues coming into the season and no progress can be seen as of yet.
Don't get me wrong. I love Flacco and I support him. I hope Joe wins that Ryan vs Flacco conversation, but right now the Falcons are the only undefeated team left in the NFL and Ryan played a big part in that success.




Can't blame it all on Cam. However I do agree, that Cameron has taken Joe as far as he can. Bringing in a new OC helped the Falcons out a lot.
[/quote]

I agree!
Your post was straight forward and without rose colored glasses.
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[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1351475916' post='1205239']
Have they ever played on a level playing field? IMO no matter what the weapons around them, every single year of their careers Matt Ryan has played an easier schedule. I hate how everyone seems to throw that out of the window when comparing the two. [u][b]For four of five years he's been in the league, Joe has faced a Steelers team ranked top 5 in passing defense twice a year, and twice in the playoffs as well.[/b][/u] I believe last year we swept the AFC North and all three of our opponents finished in the top 10 in passing defense, [u][b]in fact overall I believe that of the 18 games including the playoffs Joe played last year, 13 were against teams that finished the regular season in the top 10 in passing defense. [/b][/u] Last year three of the AFC South teams finished 20th or worse in passing defense, and none finished in the top 10. I think the only top 10 defense Brady faced until us was Pittsburgh, and he lost to them. Fact is, playing in the AFC North means just about every quarterback here will face tough secondaries and tough passing defenses. Besides, anyone think it's a coincidence that Ryan's numbers took off AFTER he got a new offensive coordinator, and this was after a lot of us thought his old one wasn't so bad.
[/quote]

and imo, with ALL of that experience of facing top defenses along with going against the Ravens defense in practice.....Flacco should be further along and a whole lot better than what he is!

~Mili
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[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1351476719' post='1205245']
and imo, with ALL of that experience of facing top defenses along with going against the Ravens defense in practice.....Flacco should be further along and a whole lot better than what he is!

~Mili
[/quote]

I would agree there, but the issue at hand is comparing Flacco and Ryan. I say switch the two, give Ryan Derrick Mason and Mark Clayton his first 2 years, give Flacco Roddy White, let Flacco play in a dome where he can sling it all day without weather, make Ryan play in the cold of the AFC North, let Flacco play the Panthers and Bucs twice a year while Ryan has to face the Bengals and Steelers, and I definitely think their numbers would be somewhat reversed. Or to put it another way, Roethlisberger has hardly ever put up big numbers, and Philip Rivers has put up big numbers almost his entire career. But for my money, Roethlisberger is the better quarterback. Not saying that directly applies to Flacco and Ryan, but simply that you can't use raw numbers to say objectively one guy is better than the other. Another fact - last year between Rice and Williams they accounted for something like 12 rushing TDs from 10 yards away or less, while Joe had 3 passing TDs from that distance. Ryan's running backs were something like 4 TDs while 12 of his TDs were from that distance. The playcalling and design of the offenses have a direct effect on raw numbers.
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Its the classic scenario with stats vs. wins, Ryan will probably always have better stats than Joe, but Joe has won playoff games and has been to the championship game twice and being one catch away from the Super Bowl that was not his fault, so at this point I take Joe
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Many of you saying we have weapons, which I agree we do, but doesn"t matter if you dont't use them right! Yes, flacco needs to play better, but you can only do so much with cams playcalling. Lets be honest our receivers can't get seperation is that playcalling or do our Wrs suck? Some have mentioned Rice but we see he's not being used, again is that on Flacco? IMO our main issues are coaching.
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[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351474570' post='1205229']
Weapons, we have weapons. To compare to Julio/Roddy. We have Torrey/Q. We have a $40 million dollar weapon in Ray Rice. A pretty reliable TE, with excellent hands in Pitta. To bring out the weapons argument is irrelevant.
[/quote]

Irrelevant? It's not even CLOSE...
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[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351474570' post='1205229']
Weapons, we have weapons. To compare to Julio/Roddy. We have Torrey/Q. We have a $40 million dollar weapon in Ray Rice. A pretty reliable TE, with excellent hands in Pitta. To bring out the weapons argument is irrelevant.
[/quote]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1351479694' post='1205261']
Irrelevant? It's not even CLOSE...
[/quote]Agreed, they have two number ones and we have two number two receivers I think smith will be a number one in the future, just not yet. They have a future HOF TE and we have a solid one in Pitta. Definitely not irrelevant.
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Having Roddy, Julio and Gonzo is irrelevant?? Must be a ATL fan who said that

I wonder if playing in a dome against teams like the Saints and Panthers is irrelevant as well?
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Comparing weapons is irrelevant. Matt Ryan does have an excellent supporting cast, but we do in Baltimore, as well. I'm not sure if it's the play calling or the quarterback as to why one QB is succeeding and the other isn't, but I find Torrey Smith/Q just as valuable as Roddy/Julio.

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Q put up multiple 1,000 yard seasons in ARIZONA and has yet to do so in Baltimore. Q is a talented dude. Might not be quick like Roddy, but he has hands. Torrey Smith is just as valuable as Julio Jones. Whether or not we're playing to their strengths, coaching wise, is a different story. [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Yes, I think the division matters in terms of the Falcons. Playing in a dome in the NFC, which I see as a weaker conference as to playing in tough climates, is quite the difference maker.[/font][/color]
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[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1351484747' post='1205282']
Comparing weapons is irrelevant. Matt Ryan does have an excellent supporting cast, but we do in Baltimore, as well. I'm not sure if it's the play calling or the quarterback as to why one QB is succeeding and the other isn't, but I find Torrey Smith/Q just as valuable as Roddy/Julio.
[/quote]

Q put up multiple 1,000 yard seasons in ARIZONA and has yet to do so in Baltimore. Q is a talented dude. Might not be quick like Roddy, but he has hands. Torrey Smith is just as valuable as Julio Jones. Whether or not we're playing to their strengths, coaching wise, is a different story.

Yes, I think the division matters in terms of the Falcons. Playing in a dome in the NFC, which I see as a weaker conference as to playing in tough climates, is quite the difference maker.
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[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1351483594' post='1205278']
Having Roddy, Julio and Gonzo is irrelevant?? Must be a ATL fan who said that

I wonder if playing in a dome against teams like the Saints and Panthers is irrelevant as well?
[/quote]

Only Math Equation we need:

Matt Ryan + Julio Jones = Roddy White + Tony Gonzalez = 0.

0 as in the number of points the Falcons offense scored in the playoff game against the Giants. 0 as in if it wasn't for the defense getting a safety against the Giants would have been a shut out loss.
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[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1351487179' post='1205296']
Only Info Math Equation we need:

Matt Ryan + Julio Jones = Roddy White + Tony Gonzalez = 0.

0 as in the number of points the Falcons offense scored in the playoff game against the Giants. 0 as in if it wasn't for the defense getting a safety against the Giants would have been a shut out loss.
[/quote]

they will only underperform even more this postseason with the pressure even higher. i hope they meet the giants again ;)
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