Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

dhstandard

Possible DE/NT Trades.

37 posts in this topic

Anybody have any ideas of who the Ravens could target at either of these positions. Terrence Cody has been embarrassing and with his lack of effort we should bring in someone better. Pernell McPhee and Art Jones haven't really done much to help the Defensive End position either.

Any possible players we could target?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe now that Suggs is back the DL will become more successful and motivated. McPhee and Cody both performed better last season with Suggs in the games.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
McPhee only played in sub packages last season. On passing downs Redding and Jarret Johnson were replaced by McPhee and Kruger. When an offense ran against our sub package we were gashed for yardage.

Fortunately when an offense rushes for 8 yards on 3rd and 10 the result is a punt. This season we have our passing down personnel playing every down. Of course we are getting gashed in the run.

The defense needs a 2 gap defensive lineman to play LDE, and bring in MCPhee on passing downs just like we did last season. Let Upshaw play in J.J.s role, and bring in Kruger like last season.

If it works, keep doing it, if it ain't broke don't fix it.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like the Seahawks NT/DT Alan Branch and DT/DE Jason Jones, playing in a hybrid defense like ours they're more versatile with less hype than the cream of the UFA class like Freeney, Avril and Melton. If they were on the squad now they would both be starting regardless of base formation.

Branch in particular stands out to me because he's more than a typical two down NT, he's quietly emerged as a disruptive interior rusher.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1351414614' post='1204807']
I like the Seahawks NT/DT Alan Branch and DT/DE Jason Jones, playing in a hybrid defense like ours they're more versatile with less hype than the cream of the UFA class like Freeney, Avril and Melton. If they were on the squad now they would both be starting regardless of base formation.

Branch in particular stands out to me because he's more than a typical two down NT, he's quietly emerged as a disruptive interior rusher.
[/quote]

Only problem here is Seattle is not trading these guys have they are part of that successful defensive unit
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1351546618' post='1205722']
it might be a scheme thing more than personnel, in 4-3 we have more success than 3-4.
[/quote]
No its a personnel thing. We have always shown multiple fronts.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1351546618' post='1205722']
it might be a scheme thing more than personnel, in 4-3 we have more success than 3-4.
[/quote]

Does a 4-3 magically make players better at shedding blocks and making tackles?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1351546618' post='1205722']
it might be a scheme thing more than personnel, in 4-3 we have more success than 3-4.
[/quote]

We actually use a hybrid scheme featuring both.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351550736' post='1205792']


Does a 4-3 magically make players better at shedding blocks and making tackles?
[/quote]
It might help with shedding blocks.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1351551060' post='1205803']
It might help with shedding blocks.
[/quote]

Not necessarily. I know what you're alluding to, but a scheme change won't necessarily aid that. A lot of people associate the 3-4 defense with defensive linemen getting double teamed and linebackers running free, but in our case, our defensive linemen don't even need to be doubled. Our defensive linemen are getting killed in one on one matchups. Another misunderstanding is that defensive linemen aren't doubled in a 4-3. Defensive tackles are still doubled often in a 4-3. The scheme doesn't dictate who gets doubled; the talent level of the lineman does.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351551329' post='1205809']


Not necessarily. I know what you're alluding to, but a scheme change won't necessarily aid that. A lot of people associate the 3-4 defense with defensive linemen getting double teamed and linebackers running free, but in our case, our defensive linemen don't even need to be doubled. Our defensive linemen are getting killed in one on one matchups. Another misunderstanding is that defensive linemen aren't doubled in a 4-3. Defensive tackles are still doubled often in a 4-3. The scheme doesn't dictate who gets doubled; the talent level of the lineman does.
[/quote]
I get what your saying and i agree with alot of it. But now that we have Suggs back I think it would be okay. Suggs,Kemo,Cody, Ngata would be our lineman. I know our LBs are the greatest at covering but I think we would be ablr to stop the run/pass rush a little better. Might not be great but perhaps better then what we currently have. I dont know.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1351552288' post='1205832']
I get what your saying and i agree with alot of it. But now that we have Suggs back I think it would be okay. Suggs,Kemo,Cody, Ngata would be our lineman. I know our LBs are the greatest at covering but I think we would be ablr to stop the run/pass rush a little better. Might not be great but perhaps better then what we currently have. I dont know.
[/quote]

If we hypothetically ran more 4-3 fronts, I would much rather have Suggs - Ngata - Jones/McPhee - Upshaw.

Cody and Kemo are awful and I'd like to keep them off the field as much as possible. Ngata's talent would be misused as a 4-3 end.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't know why people are abusing Cody. He's actually been pretty decent. Certainly not bad enough to put this on his shoulders. Jones, Kruger, and Kemo have far and away been our worst performers.

Hopefully with Suggs back play as a whole improves. I don't think its solely a personnel issue though. The difference is far too drastic.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1351561063' post='1205917']
I don't know why people are abusing Cody. He's actually been pretty decent. Certainly not bad enough to put this on his shoulders. Jones, Kruger, and Kemo have far and away been our worst performers.

Hopefully with Suggs back play as a whole improves. I don't think its solely a personnel issue though. The difference is far too drastic.
[/quote]

No. Sorry. Cody is the worst player on the defense.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351561297' post='1205921']


No. Sorry. Cody is the worst player on the defense.
[/quote]

Williams?
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1351561867' post='1205925']
Williams?
[/quote]

Cary is used incorrectly. Cody is 350 pounds and gets routinely killed by centers 50 pounds lighter. No excuse!
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Goodness, here we go with the 4-3 jazz again...it was a bad idea last week, still a bad idea this week
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='frank21054' timestamp='1351538625' post='1205605']
Only problem here is Seattle is not trading these guys have they are part of that successful defensive unit
[/quote]

As I mentioned they're UFA and will only have enough money to extend one.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Blex64' timestamp='1351561063' post='1205917']
I don't know why people are abusing Cody. He's actually been pretty decent. Certainly not bad enough to put this on his shoulders. Jones, Kruger, and Kemo have far and away been our worst performers.

Hopefully with Suggs back play as a whole improves. I don't think its solely a personnel issue though. The difference is far too drastic.
[/quote]
Cody has been getting blown back by interior linemen, one-on-one. When you're a NT then that's pretty bad. He & Kemo are competing for worst linemen.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I hate to say it, but I don't think there is a fix out there right now. We may have to wait to address this in the 2013 Draft.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1351627980' post='1206287']
I hate to say it, but I don't think there is a fix out there right now. We may have to wait to address this in the 2013 Draft.
[/quote]
Agree.

at best a band-aid on a flesh wound.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]A question someone asked during the live chat session today.
Why don’t we ever make any big time moves??? The great teams are made great by making great moves and we NEVER do it so we are never able to make it over the hump. Harbaugh says were good enough with what we got right now. Obviously that’s not true.[/color][/font][color="#000000"] [/color]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive] [size=2][/size][/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]Garrett Downing replied with:[/color][/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]I wouldn't be so sure that "big-time moves" are the way to build a team. The Steelers have been awfully successful and they aren't super active on the free-agent market. Same goes for the Patriots and Packers.[/color][/font][font='Comic Sans MS'] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive] [/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'][/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]My reply to Garrett would be:[/color][/font]
[font='Comic Sans MS'] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]That is true during free agency; however they are very aggressive during the draft. Just look at the patriot’s who trade draft picks and move up to grab top 10 and top 15 draft picks. We seem to never draft in the top 25.[/color][/font][font='Comic Sans MS'] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color="#000000"]I understand the philosophy of drafting the best player on the board at that time but why can’t we be aggressive and draft the best player. [/color][/font][font='Comic Sans MS'] [/font]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1351644275' post='1206436']
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]A question someone asked during the live chat session today.
Why don’t we ever make any big time moves??? The great teams are made great by making great moves and we NEVER do it so we are never able to make it over the hump. Harbaugh says were good enough with what we got right now. Obviously that’s not true.[/color][/font][color=#000000] [/color]


[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]Garrett Downing replied with:[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]I wouldn't be so sure that "big-time moves" are the way to build a team. The Steelers have been awfully successful and they aren't super active on the free-agent market. Same goes for the Patriots and Packers.[/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]


[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]My reply to Garrett would be:[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]That is true during free agency; however they are very aggressive during the draft. Just look at the patriot’s who trade draft picks and move up to grab top 10 and top 15 draft picks. We seem to never draft in the top 25.[/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]I understand the philosophy of drafting the best player on the board at that time but why can’t we be aggressive and draft the best player. [/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]
[/quote]

We have made multiple trades to get players we wanted in the past. It hasnt happened in the first round since trading up to take Oher, but two years ago we traded up to snag Jah Reid, and this past draft we traded up to take Bernard Pierce. Making moves to get high in the first round generally takes a lot of resources and may not be a wise decision in the long term.

Every draft is different as well. Last year there were only a handful of top echelon prospects and a lot of players that were kind of a 1st-2nd round grade. We got two players in Upshaw and Osemele who were very highly regarded and we didnt have to give up anything to get them.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1351644275' post='1206436']
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]A question someone asked during the live chat session today.
Why don’t we ever make any big time moves??? The great teams are made great by making great moves and we NEVER do it so we are never able to make it over the hump. Harbaugh says were good enough with what we got right now. Obviously that’s not true.[/color][/font][color=#000000] [/color]


[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]Garrett Downing replied with:[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]I wouldn't be so sure that "big-time moves" are the way to build a team. The Steelers have been awfully successful and they aren't super active on the free-agent market. Same goes for the Patriots and Packers.[/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]


[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]My reply to Garrett would be:[/color][/font]

[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]That is true during free agency; however they are very aggressive during the draft. Just look at the patriot’s who trade draft picks and move up to grab top 10 and top 15 draft picks. We seem to never draft in the top 25.[/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][color=#000000]I understand the philosophy of drafting the best player on the board at that time but why can’t we be aggressive and draft the best player. [/color][/font][font=Comic Sans MS] [/font]
[/quote]

Do you realize that the previous few years the Patriots also traded down a bunch? Also, neither of their picks this year were in the Top 20. They picked at 21 and 27.

In 2011 they had a Top 20 pick. They made traded Richard Seymour [i]during the season[/i] for Oakland's first round pick. They traded their original first to New Orleans.

In 2010, they traded down from 21 and their first pick was at 27.

In 2009 they traded down from 23 to 26, and then they traded down to the second round.

In the last four drafts, they drafted ONE player in the top 20. Zero in the top 10, and zero and the top 15. They traded up ONCE. They traded down multiple times in the other three. As you can plainly see, your post is misinformed.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=2][size=3]Ok, I'll spend more time in the research department, but drafting 21 and 27 in the 1st round to ne is aggressive. Two players in Jones and Hightower. It just seem to me (and I am speaking for myself only) they always seem to have twice as many picks as we do. [/size][/size][/font]
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1351703148' post='1206671']
[font=comic sans ms, cursive][size=2][size=3]Ok, I'll spend more time in the research department, but drafting 21 and 27 in the 1st round to ne is aggressive. Two players in Jones and Hightower. It just seem to me (and I am speaking for myself only) they always seem to have twice as many picks as we do. [/size][/size][/font]
[/quote]
Thats because Oakland accepted the ridiculous deal of giving NE a 1st for Richard Seymour. NE proceeded to trade out of the 1st and stockpiling picks the next 3 drafts.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1351703231' post='1206673']
Thats because Oakland accepted the ridiculous deal of giving NE a 1st for Richard Seymour. NE proceeded to trade out of the 1st and stockpiling picks the next 3 drafts.
[/quote]
Yeah, no one has impacted the AFC more than Oakland with that one traded. They got a left tackle out of it.
If you think about it we gave them Wilfork for Kyler Boller
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1351703502' post='1206675']

Yeah, no one has impacted the AFC more than Oakland with that one traded. They got a left tackle out of it.
If you think about it we gave them Wilfork for Kyler Boller
[/quote]
You just made me remember my fantasy...

Can you imagine our team if we had Wilfork & Ngata? My God.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I remember during the draft analysts were scratching their heads that we took Cody. Does anybody know who we could have drafted better in that spot at the time?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites