Flacco - How much is he worth?

[usmccharles]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1351279407' post='1204184']


I have been supportive of Flacco since his rookie year, but his attitude and his apparent desire to get as much money as possible out of the Ravens FO is annoying.
[/quote]

Examples?? I have no idea what your talking about.

Hes worth top ten money. Pay the man. I dont want to go through the dark ages with no qb again. When have we ever had a qb of this caliber? And the oline needs to step up their protection and joe needs to work on his pocket awareness

[Radinho84]

the question is: which qb would you rather have to be the leader of our franchise?

flacco is still young with his 27 years. we all know that he can make all the throws. he is able to produce on the big stage (AFC Championship Game last season). he has his ups and downs like anybody in this league.

for me there is only rodgers that i would take over him. rest is too old or not proven enough. i don´t want to see any rookie under center with the inconsistent OL we are having in baltimore. flacco is no crybaby. he gets hit all the time and still stands his man out there.

he will get a big contract. like it or not because he is the kind of player who will only get better and has done a lot in bios young career.

[poescrows]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1351291960' post='1204298']
The fact is that Flacco has far greater skills than Schaub can ever imagine. However, I do believe Schaub is the more complete QB in that he is able to diagnose defenses better and plays to his offense's strengths much better! If you weigh intangibles then Schaub and several other QBs are much better than Flacco at this point....
[/quote] But the fact that "Schaub" plays to his offense's strengths is more a testament of his OC, not himself. Here in lies the problem with Flacco being a better and more consistant QB. Cam has called some great games, but when the plan doesn't work, he takes too long to change it, if he does at all.......Flacco becomes the "whipping post"

[poescrows]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1351330038' post='1204447']
the question is: which qb would you rather have to be the leader of our franchise?

flacco is still young with his 27 years. we all know that he can make all the throws. he is able to produce on the big stage (AFC Championship Game last season). he has his ups and downs like anybody in this league.

for me there is only rodgers that i would take over him. rest is too old or not proven enough. i don´t want to see any rookie under center with the inconsistent OL we are having in baltimore. flacco is no crybaby. he gets hit all the time and still stands his man out there.

he will get a big contract. like it or not because he is the kind of player who will only get better and has done a lot in bios young career.
[/quote] Exactly. Simple question: Who, [u]thats available[/u], would you take in place of Flacco?

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='poescrows' timestamp='1351341666' post='1204463']
But the fact that "Schaub" plays to his offense's strengths is more a testament of his OC, not himself. Here in lies the problem with Flacco being a better and more consistant QB. Cam has called some great games, but when the plan doesn't work, he takes too long to change it, if he does at all.......Flacco becomes the "whipping post"
[/quote]

I guess ovethrowing/underthrowing debacle, his 49% pass completion, along with his 9 pass deflection has so much to do with the 'playcall'

Its the same excuse for every mediocre QB. "Its the Offensive coordinator, its the O-lineman"

Look at Aaron Rodgers(28sacked almost 60% sacked more than flacco, his genius offensive coord. Philben left to miami) then look t his numbers.

Then look at Drew Brees(lost his #1 receiver, lost his head coach,lost 2 of his best o-lineman), then look at his numbers.


I'll make it even easier for you.


Alex Smith, Josh Freeman, Andy Dalton: all three of these guys beat flacco in EVERY statistical category so far this season. What is the excuse for that?

How about this? Russel Wilson(rookie), is statistically nearly identical to joe flacco. Does that make Russel Wilson a better QB than flaccos tenured 5th year than rookie Wilson who shared 1st rep snaps with Matt Flynn this preseason?

[ravensdfan]

Well, he's worth what the organization decides to pay him. Period. I'm not signing his checks so I really don't have a position on what he gets paid.

I will say that I lived through the QB Carousel years. I don't want to revisit that experience. Sign the man.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='bauer77' timestamp='1351323450' post='1204435']
I wonder what you would say if you realized that Peyton Manning was in the mid 80's until his 6th year? Should the Colts have given up on him too? Eli was in the mid 80's till his 6th year. Boy, the Giants are glad they didn't give up on him i bet? No, i'm not saying "wait till year 6" or anything, I just think we need to get him away from Cam. Give him more control of the offense. He hasn't fully developed yet.
[/quote]

Since when did Manning become the rule and not the rarer than owls teeth exception? In any case I clicked the wrong vote, Flacco is a known variable and the best option we have for the foreseeable future but that too depends on how much we pay him.

[billick]

Exactly what do we have without Joe Flacco ?

The real question is how much cap space do we have.

Maybe we can bring back Young Kyle. What a flop he was. How many years have we made the play offs wih JF. Ohh, 4/4, every year of his career. Sorry for all the confusion that has caused.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='billick' timestamp='1351353217' post='1204512']
Exactly what do we have without Joe Flacco ?

The real question is how much cap space do we have.

Maybe we can bring back Young Kyle. What a flop he was. [b]How many years have we made the play offs wih JF. Ohh, 4/4, every year of his career. [/b]Sorry for all the confusion that has caused.
[/quote]

Any QB might have been able to do that the first two years. Just saying# we have to stop over exaggerating what he has brought to this team. He is a good QB he should get paid a top 10-14 salary. But he is nowhere near were he needs to be in his fifth season. He has been very disappointing in his contract year.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1351355116' post='1204523']
Any QB might have been able to do that the first two years. Just saying# we have to stop over exaggerating what he has brought to this team. He is a good QB he should get paid a top 10-14 salary. [u][b]But he is nowhere near were he needs to be in his fifth season.[/b][/u] [u][b]He has been very disappointing in his contract year.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

i agree! i remember a few seasons back that many people kept saying that the 5th season is the so-called breakout year for QBs. well, the 5th season for Flacco being a starting QB is here and 7 games into the season it seems like we're still waiting to see significant and consistent progress in him as a QB instead of this same ole' same ole' game play on the road. it is disappointing!

~Mili

[bMore Heathen]

The franchise tag for Flacco isn't an option. With Brees new contract, the tag will cost in the 17-20 mil range. Out of our price range. He deserves in the 10-13 a year, but will probably get more.
Flacco is the best QB we have ever had. Compare him to Boller, I'll take Flacco any day. But I don't know that he fully understands what defenses are trying to do to him. He still has the bad habit of waiting for his receivers to get open before throwing. He will lead his receivers from time to time, but it seems like he's more comfortable trying to gun it in. That's not what a top 5 QB does. He also still has the problem of staring down receivers. That's not good either. If he can correct these, then maybe top 10 QB money, if not... 10-15.

[CorvusCorax]

He's worth over nine THOUSAAAAANNNND!!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='CorvusCorax' timestamp='1351361839' post='1204561']
He's worth over nine THOUSAAAAANNNND!!
[/quote]
He makes that within the first 5 sec of the first quarter alone.....

[CorvusCorax]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351364418' post='1204566']
He makes that within the first 5 sec of the first quarter alone.....
[/quote]

Makes you wonder how much a sack really costs adding things up.

[allballs]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1351278555' post='1204173']
You know this question vexes me more than any other, even though I am fantasizing that I may one day have the power or ability to do so. However, this is my Ravens' team and it is important for me to make sure the organization makes all the right moves and spends its allocated cap room very judiciously. Only then will we stay competitive and remain winning as a franchise....

I am glad we extended Webby and Rice in the off season. However, the fact that they are not closing the deal on Flacco has me wondering - what's up with that??? How much can we truly afford to pay Flacco? Do we pay him top 5 money and lock him up? (it seems like his agent will only accept top 5 money from all indications) Or do we wait and tag him next year?

Any comments and fruitful discussion is welcome...

Just for fun I have also included a poll...
[/quote]

do not sign flacco. do not get any high price qb. let flacco go, and bring in a real talented young mlb, a young talented fs, even a few more db (22 cant cover a baby with a blanket), build a defense, a superb defense can stop any thing in the league, let tyrod run this, and bring dixon up, there's no reason to give flacco 50-90 million dollars. he has cost us the game in every crucial game in his career, and he give the defense no credit, yet they continue to believe in him , notably suggs, etc etc: if you have ignorant doubt or opinion, go back and fact check , i'll make the search easy for you people, start with PIT in 09, Indy in 10, Pit in 11, and NE in 12 ( and he didnt outplay brady when it come to real football, you saw brady go right at ray and get smashed in the back while scoring, did you see brady rally after his INTs, ) flacco threw a moment changing int, and we didnt even have to be throwing that ball, ricky was gashing the leagues worst rush defense, then of all people, you gonna throw to lee evans, c'mon man

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1351317407' post='1204427']
Why does everyone think Flacco has incredible accuracy when throwing deep?

I mean, yes... he's hit receivers perfectly down the sideline before. But plenty of QBs can do that every once in a while. I don't notice it more frequently from Flacco than any other QB?

He's thrown PLENTY of balls that were way too short, or were lofted for way too long that the receiver had to sit there and wait for. He's also over-thrown receivers plenty of times deep. Yes, he's even over-thrown the fast guys like Torrey Smith. (and while I know you won't believe this since the media/game analyst tells you otherwise, but... sometimes the receivers were wide open when Flacco overthrew them!)

So where does this "Flacco throws the best deep-ball" or "Nobody has better accuracy with the deep ball than Flacco" notions come from? Some random statistic a fansite made up? He' got a strong arm, I just don't understand the notion that he's the most accurate in the league? You'd think the Ravens offense would be doing more if that was the case?
[/quote]
Are you serious? Look at the stats. Flacco is top 5 in passing yards, and is also top 5 in 40+ yards WITHOUT strong YAC receivers.

I am in no way a Flacco homer, never was never will be. But Flacco has by far the best deep-ball this year.

The only other i could think of that WERE good at chucking it deep was Rivers, Stafford, Cutler, and I have no idea where those guys arm strength has gone,

I haven't watched RG3's deep throw but i heard it's very decent too but maybe i AM just a homer..

Anyway, back on topic. I'd like to see Flacco with Schaub money with extra incentives if he does well.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1351317189' post='1204426']
I say we end up paying him but Ozzie also needs to give him some kind of offensive line because I want to see what Joe can do behind a good solid offensive line.
[/quote]

I can agree with you. Though another poster made a good point about Joe in the past benefiting from a very good defense and running game. This year the defense has its problems and so far the offense has willfully diminished the roll of the running game, resulting in offensive struggles and diminishing production from Joe.

Hopefully, the team and the NFL can learn from this that QBs cannot do it alone. Joe is a good QB but he needs a complete team around him. It's the same for all but 1-2 QBs in the league. Even New England is seeking to increase the roll of the running game this year.

The Great Experiment is almost over. The conclusion being, there is a future in this league for Running Backs.

[rlh445]

I'm so glad to see that most everyone here chose the right answer. Poll, pfft..there's a right and a wrong answer as far as I'm concerned and that's to can the bum! Let's start over. I mean the last few years have been great at finding rookies ready to step into the NFL and start immediately! Look at that RGIII! Look at Cam Newton! Andrew Luck! We should use OUR luck and get Joe outta here for Matt Barkley or maybe a Tyler Wilson.



Kidding. We should pay Joe accordingly and stop fooling ourselves into thinking there are any better options ATM. I'm all for getting a backup in here I can actually feel okay about starting if Joe can't go though.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1351366630' post='1204579']
do not sign flacco. do not get any high price qb. let flacco go, and bring in a real talented young mlb, a young talented fs, even a few more db (22 cant cover a baby with a blanket), build a defense, a superb defense can stop any thing in the league, let tyrod run this, and bring dixon up, there's no reason to give flacco 50-90 million dollars. he has cost us the game in every crucial game in his career, and he give the defense no credit, yet they continue to believe in him , notably suggs, etc etc: if you have ignorant doubt or opinion, go back and fact check , i'll make the search easy for you people, start with PIT in 09, Indy in 10, Pit in 11, and NE in 12 ( and he didnt outplay brady when it come to real football, you saw brady go right at ray and get smashed in the back while scoring, did you see brady rally after his INTs, ) flacco threw a moment changing int, and we didnt even have to be throwing that ball, ricky was gashing the leagues worst rush defense, then of all people, you gonna throw to lee evans, c'mon man
[/quote]

I think the team should and will sign Joe for top 10 money. You addressed the issues I've had over the years but I blamed Cam even for the Lee Evans drop because, right or wrong, I felt Evans should not have been in the game. Would it have made a difference, who knows. I also wanted the team to keep kicker Shane Graham but they let him go. Again, would it have made a difference, I like to think so.

[wayne]

Flacco has a chance to be a Top 5 QB if we play more to the strength of the team. Having Flacco stay in shotgun with a pass to run ratio of 70-30 isn't playing to the strength of the team either. Trying to make Flacco out to be a QB like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc..... who can live in shotgun without needing a major impact from the running game is not playing to the strength of the team, to the strengths of Flacco. No, we keep Flacco and lock him up ( not elite QB pay though but a level under that ) and I will go so far to say that we don't need to get rid of Cam either but he needs to stop trying to turn our offense into the Chargers offense and play more within the strength of our team which starts with Rice and Leach. We can arguably say that both of those players are Top 5 atleast at their positions and we have O-line that is obviously better at run blocking as most O-lineman are.

Just imagine what the 49ers and Texans record would be if they tried to turn their offensive gameplan into a predominantly passing gameplan. Just keeping Smith and Schaub in shotgun barely using Gore or Foster and a lot of the passing success of those two QBs comes off of PA's.

[DocMartin]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351282497' post='1204218']
Roughly 7 years for 100 million. +/- 15 million. This puts his salary at about $14.28 million. I also advocate making his contract very heavy with incentives. He has the potential to be a Top 5 QB in a few years, so he should be compensated as such. That's the purpose of the incentives. But right now, I wouldn't give him more than $15 million.

Before any angry Flacco haters pounce on me for this post, let me say this. Approximately 14 million is the going rate for a franchise QB whether you like it or not. Flacco IS a franchise QB, whether you believe it or not. His price range is from roughly $13 million to $16 million. He is not elite just yet, but he is our guy. Please note, I said he is [u]not[/u] elite!
[/quote]
Well said and I can agrree with that. The Incentives have to be big part of the deal.
After watching in the years of Testaverde, Banks, Dilfer and Boller, Joe Flacco is the best quarterback Ravens had, no doubt. Is he an Elite Top 5 QB? No. Top 10? Yes. If Flacco can become more consistent, he could be ranked in the Top 5, but at this time he is not.
His agent thinks Joe should get Top 5 contract deal. What he needs to realize is, despite Flacco taking Ravens to the Playoffs in last 4 years, Flacco himself has not been selected to the Pro Bowl, yet.
So, let's make some compromise here and get the deal done.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1351370584' post='1204605']
Flacco has a chance to be a Top 5 QB if we play more to the strength of the team. Having Flacco stay in shotgun with a pass to run ratio of 70-30 isn't playing to the strength of the team either. Trying to make Flacco out to be a QB like Brady, Manning, Brees, Rodgers, etc..... who can live in shotgun without needing a major impact from the running game is not playing to the strength of the team, to the strengths of Flacco. No, we keep Flacco and lock him up ( not elite QB pay though but a level under that ) and I will go so far to say that we don't need to get rid of Cam either but he needs to stop trying to turn our offense into the Chargers offense and play more within the strength of our team which starts with Rice and Leach. We can arguably say that both of those players are Top 5 atleast at their positions and we have O-line that is obviously better at run blocking as most O-lineman are.

Just imagine what the 49ers and Texans record would be if they tried to turn their offensive gameplan into a predominantly passing gameplan. Just keeping Smith and Schaub in shotgun barely using Gore or Foster and a lot of the passing success of those two QBs comes off of PA's.
[/quote]

I agree that we keep Joe but I wonder about Cam only because I have my doubts that he is willing to change. Keep him only if he shows he has learned from past mistakes and focuses on playing to the strength of the whole offense.

The great experiment has to evolve to include using Joe, Ray, Bernard and Avonta to the best of their abilities and to the benefit of the whole team, including time of possession.

[Greatness]

Top 5 money for..

1) Being exceptionally successful in this offense with these players

2) He's a beast

3) He'll be more expensive than whatever you'll pay him in the long run

4) Because I said so

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1351368083' post='1204589']
I'm so glad to see that most everyone here chose the right answer. Poll, pfft..there's a right and a wrong answer as far as I'm concerned and that's to can the bum! Let's start over. I mean the last few years have been great at finding rookies ready to step into the NFL and start immediately! [u][b]Look at that RGIII! Look at Cam Newton! [/b][/u] Andrew Luck! We should use OUR luck and get Joe outta here for Matt Barkley or maybe a Tyler Wilson.



Kidding. We should pay Joe accordingly and stop fooling ourselves into thinking there are any better options ATM. I'm all for getting a backup in here I can actually feel okay about starting if Joe can't go though.
[/quote]

Cam was a #1 draft pick
RGIII was a #2 draft pick

it is very safe to say that those two cats had no choice but to be the starters in their position as a QB and thrown into the mix right away.

~Mili

[ThePurpleWall]

top 10 mabey top 7

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1351367509' post='1204587']


I can agree with you. Though another poster made a good point about Joe in the past benefiting from a very good defense and running game. This year the defense has its problems and so far the offense has willfully diminished the roll of the running game, resulting in offensive struggles and diminishing production from Joe.

Hopefully, the team and the NFL can learn from this that QBs cannot do it alone. Joe is a good QB but he needs a complete team around him. It's the same for all but 1-2 QBs in the league. Even New England is seeking to increase the roll of the running game this year.

The Great Experiment is almost over. The conclusion being, there is a future in this league for Running Backs.
[/quote]
As I keep saying, balance balance balance. If a qb is throwing for a lot of yards, that is either a sign of a team always playing from behind, or an offense who has to throw bc of a nonexistent running game. Flacco doesn't have to throw as much, and usually when he has too, we win, or his wrs screw up. We have the most versatile back in the NFL. Use him more, use the run to set up the pass. And honestly, who gives three craps bout qb rating, the only stat that matters is wins(however, this in theory would make Tim Tebow a good QB, but he won bc of balance from our old rb). Cam if balance worked for Tim, it will work for Joe..... And he is the best qb we've ever had, give the man what he wants

[rlh445]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1351401007' post='1204778']
Cam was a #1 draft pick
RGIII was a #2 draft pick

it is very safe to say that those two cats had no choice but to be the starters in their position as a QB and thrown into the mix right away.

~Mili
[/quote]

I think you're looking at it backwards. They were seen to be ready to start immediately at their position, and that's why they were drafted so high .

[ratedr]

Top 15 money.

[ellicottraven]

I think we have this all wrong. I really believe regardless of what we pay Flacco (at the end of the day it depends on the collective delusion or the lack thereof of Flacco and his agent), we really should make Ray Rice and the running game the focus of our offense. Flacco can do his thing within the confines of the run oriented, play action pass oriented offense we may have to run to save our defense from tiring and winning the time of possession battle or at least getting 50% of offensive time.... If we stay consistent with that mentality we will still be hard to beat in my opinion.

Finally I honestly believe the Ravens organization know exactly what they are willing to play Flacco and have made an offer they won't increase. So really it is up to Flacco to reach down and sign him contract so we can all move on, for better or for worse! Go Ravens!

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1351429886' post='1204827']
I think you're looking at it backwards. [u][b]They were seen to be ready to start immediately at their position, and that's why they were drafted so high[/b][/u] .
[/quote]

naw, i said it the right way bruh! i think that you are trying to analyze the statement too deeply.

~Mili