Flacco - How much is he worth?

[ellicottraven]

You know this question vexes me more than any other, even though I am fantasizing that I may one day have the power or ability to do so. However, this is my Ravens' team and it is important for me to make sure the organization makes all the right moves and spends its allocated cap room very judiciously. Only then will we stay competitive and remain winning as a franchise....

I am glad we extended Webby and Rice in the off season. However, the fact that they are not closing the deal on Flacco has me wondering - what's up with that??? How much can we truly afford to pay Flacco? Do we pay him top 5 money and lock him up? (it seems like his agent will only accept top 5 money from all indications) Or do we wait and tag him next year?

Any comments and fruitful discussion is welcome...

Just for fun I have also included a poll...

[NFLGirl]

While the last few games have been pretty disappointing, especially with the multiple interceptions he threw in the last game, it's hard to feel comfort in Flacco. However, I think over-all, he's a good quarterback and most of our offensive problems lay with the O-Line. They really need to give him time. So, I voted we sign him ASAP if he agrees to top 10 QBs because I do believe he's a great QB. I'm just not sure if he's really in top 5 category... but that's just my opinion.

[redrum52]

Not trying to bash but I think there was already a thread like this. I say wait til the off season.

[JohnJohnson]

Definitely not top 5 money. The fact is, he cannot carry this team on his back. He cannot overcome weaknesses in the o-line. The play calling is horrendous, but it appears to me that Flacco [i]agrees[/i] with this pass happy approach. If Flacco wants to have a long career with the Ravens, he should accept a reasonable deal and stop clamoring for "respect" in the form of money. Anyone can see that he's not a top 5 QB. Top 5 QBs have terrible games once in a while. That's once or twice a season, not four times a season. Get rid of Cam, and use the franchise tag on Flacco if he won't accept a reasonable deal (or let him test the market and see that no one is giving him top 5 money). If he looks better under a different coordinator, maybe reconsider. But right now he doesn't seem to be able to overcome deficiencies; I am hoping that it's due to Cam's ridiculous play calling.

I have been supportive of Flacco since his rookie year, but his attitude and his apparent desire to get as much money as possible out of the Ravens FO is annoying.

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1351279258' post='1204183']
Not trying to bash but I think there was already a thread like this. I say wait til the off season.
[/quote]

Actually, several other threads on Flacco's contract. They all ended up locked due to poor behavior by the participants. Let's not repeat that.

[redrum52]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1351279949' post='1204193']


Actually, several other threads on Flacco's contract. They all ended up locked due to poor behavior by the participants. Let's not repeat that.
[/quote]


When you all see a new thread created, do you ever make bets by which page the topic will turn into a bash Cam/Joe/Pees thread? It seems there are certain things that can't be discussed without it coming back to Cam or Flacco. You know whats going to happen here, right?

[PlayLikeAFan]

Tough question, before this season I would have said he was worth a lot more money but now I'm unsure so I would wait it out to the end of the season to see if his play improves or if he stays where he is at. If worst comes to worst and we cant get a reasonable deal franchise tag. At the moment though he is definately not worth top 5 money unless he improves drastically. It sucks because QB's like Sanchez and Fitzpatrick got huge contracts so Flacco will be expecting money at least equal to them because he is a better QB.

[berad]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1351280266' post='1204199']
When you all see a new thread created, do you ever make bets by which page the topic will turn into a bash Cam/Joe/Pees thread? It seems there are certain things that can't be discussed without it coming back to Cam or Flacco. You know whats going to happen here, right?
[/quote]

Threads on the main forum are ok, most of the posters know each other and get along well, and most threads live and die without intervention. The blogs are the trouble-makers.

If there's even a slight mention of politics people will jump on it and get ugly - we make sure to watch those. Also, whenever the headline is a picture/story about the Steelers, people get upset (myself included).

On topic, I like that his pay / this poll is not a number but rather a range of relative QB values. People say [i]'idk if he's worth $100M'[/i] but that's essentially the going rate for a QB of Joe's caliber. I think top 10.

[The Raven]

Roughly 7 years for 100 million. +/- 15 million. This puts his salary at about $14.28 million. I also advocate making his contract very heavy with incentives. He has the potential to be a Top 5 QB in a few years, so he should be compensated as such. That's the purpose of the incentives. But right now, I wouldn't give him more than $15 million.

Before any angry Flacco haters pounce on me for this post, let me say this. Approximately 14 million is the going rate for a franchise QB whether you like it or not. Flacco IS a franchise QB, whether you believe it or not. His price range is from roughly $13 million to $16 million. He is not elite just yet, but he is our guy. Please note, I said he is [u]not[/u] elite!

[NFLGirl]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351282497' post='1204218']
I also advocate making his contract very heavy with incentives. He has the potential to be a Top 5 QB in a few years, so he should be compensated as such. That's the purpose of the incentives.
[/quote]

I think you make a very valid point. Flacco is still early career and does have the potential of making Top 5. Let's not make the mistake of letting him go and then later regretting it.

[Bravens292]

i like flacco but he isn't really proving himself yet. we will have a lot more money for FA's the way he's playing. my guess is they will wait for romo to sign in the offseason and his contract will set a bar for the flacco talks.

[arnie_uk]

Less than manning brees Brady etc, more than Sanchez, Fitzpatrick etc who are in and around 14. More than Matt Schaub just signed based on the fact there's more potential to come from joe. He won't get as much as Matt Ryan will get when he does a new deal.

Sme similar to what Eli manning signed would be about his rate

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351282497' post='1204218']
Roughly 7 years for 100 million. +/- 15 million. This puts his salary at about $14.28 million. I also advocate making his contract very heavy with incentives. He has the potential to be a Top 5 QB in a few years, so he should be compensated as such. That's the purpose of the incentives. But right now, I wouldn't give him more than $15 million.

Before any angry Flacco haters pounce on me for this post, let me say this. Approximately 14 million is the going rate for a franchise QB whether you like it or not. Flacco IS a franchise QB, whether you believe it or not. His price range is from roughly $13 million to $16 million. He is not elite just yet, but he is our guy. Please note, I said he is [u]not[/u] elite!
[/quote]you have to make that last part extra clear, because if you praise him at all these days you get accused of calling him elite, or as I was referred to there, a groupie

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='JohnJohnson' timestamp='1351279407' post='1204184']
Definitely not top 5 money. [b]The fact is, he cannot carry this team on his back. He cannot overcome weaknesses in the o-line. The play calling is horrendous, but it appears to me that Flacco [i]agrees[/i] with this pass happy approach. If Flacco wants to have a long career with the Ravens, he should accept a reasonable deal and stop clamoring for "respect" in the form of money.[/b] Anyone can see that he's not a top 5 QB. Top 5 QBs have terrible games once in a while. That's once or twice a season, not four times a season. Get rid of Cam, and use the franchise tag on Flacco if he won't accept a reasonable deal (or let him test the market and see that no one is giving him top 5 money). If he looks better under a different coordinator, maybe reconsider. But right now he doesn't seem to be able to overcome deficiencies; I am hoping that it's due to Cam's ridiculous play calling.

I have been supportive of Flacco since his rookie year, but his attitude and his apparent desire to get as much money as possible out of the Ravens FO is annoying.
[/quote]
I agree with this 100%. People have been clamoring for Cam to let Joe have the helm and to evolve with the NFL and be a pass-happy team and looks what happens when we do.

Joe can NOT carry the team on his back, our defense goes down and he cannot help them by keeping the offense on the field, despite separation or not. Use you're legs and extend the play Joe, isn't that why you have them?

Our running game is THE focal point of this offense and it should stay that way. We have done HORRIBLE with less run plays and more passes and Houston has seen that over the years and took a page out of our old book and showed us how to execute it like how we used to.

Schaub isn't even that great of a passer yet he looks like he outshines Flacco despite having his best WR locked down almost every game. Flacco is on the same level as he is and I think he should get paid the same.

[Medications]

Hes a top 15 qb, maybe 12th or so, with top 10 potential in the future? So i'd pay him accordingly to that after this season ends

[gabefergy]

15M range. Hes a top 10 QB with the talent to be one of the NFL's elite. When he has good protection he picks defenses apart. So he needs to get paid, but not so much that we cant pay the Oline too!

[mdrsharon]

As we are never going to be in a position to get a really hot college QB (Luck, RG3, etc) I would give Flacco a basic rate and give lots of incentives for anything over and above.
I can't help but feel he is way too tentative to be a bold and gutsy player on the field to take us to the next level.
Whenever he feels pressure, he gets that "deer in the headlights" look and feel, and cannot overcome defenses.
For some reason, the first game this and last season were strongperformances.
Where is that guy?
Interesting to see what happens, come signing time.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1351279949' post='1204193']
Actually, several other threads on Flacco's contract. They all ended up locked due to poor behavior by the participants. Let's not repeat that.
[/quote]@Mod3 - this was created to have an honest and fruitful discussion on Flacco and I think it is a legitimate issue for all Ravens' fans. At the end of the day let us not forget that the fans are the reason a salary cap exists and for that matter the NFL!

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1351285948' post='1204256']
I agree with this 100%. People have been clamoring for Cam to let Joe have the helm and to evolve with the NFL and be a pass-happy team and looks what happens when we do.

Joe can NOT carry the team on his back, our defense goes down and he cannot help them by keeping the offense on the field, despite separation or not. Use you're legs and extend the play Joe, isn't that why you have them?

Our running game is THE focal point of this offense and it should stay that way. We have done HORRIBLE with less run plays and more passes and Houston has seen that over the years and took a page out of our old book and showed us how to execute it like how we used to.

Schaub isn't even that great of a passer yet he looks like he outshines Flacco despite having his best WR locked down almost every game. Flacco is on the same level as he is and I think he should get paid the same.
[/quote]The fact is that Flacco has far greater skills than Schaub can ever imagine. However, I do believe Schaub is the more complete QB in that he is able to diagnose defenses better and plays to his offense's strengths much better! If you weigh intangibles then Schaub and several other QBs are much better than Flacco at this point....

[BMOREHAWAII]

[quote name='ellicottraven' timestamp='1351291960' post='1204298']
The fact is that Flacco has far greater skills than Schaub can ever imagine. However, I do believe Schaub is the more complete QB in that he is able to diagnose defenses better and plays to his offense's strengths much better! If you weigh intangibles then Schaub and several other QBs are much better than Flacco at this point....
[/quote]
You could argue Flacco has the better armstrength in between the 2 but then agani, who else has a more accurate deep throw than Flacco?

Schaub is a veteran who is better at reading defenses. Stats wise Flacco is also behind him.

I'm just saying they are both "good" QB's and he may keep regressing as he did year after year despite Baltimore being in favor of the pass now.

They should pay him what he is and that is somewhere around Schaub money.

[frank21054]

I voted top 10 money as I do see him as a top 10 QB with the help of Ray Rice to take some of the burden off him. The number 1 problem I have is his pocket awareness which everyone wants to blame the offensive line. However, there are many times where he has had plenty of time to throw but he gets striped sacked. Joe also tends to lock onto receivers and misses open receivers.

[The Raven]

[quote name='frank21054' timestamp='1351308007' post='1204394']
I voted top 10 money as I do see him as a top 10 QB with the help of Ray Rice to take some of the burden off him. The number 1 problem I have is his pocket awareness which everyone wants to blame the offensive line. However, there are many times where he has had plenty of time to throw but he gets striped sacked. Joe also tends to lock onto receivers and misses open receivers.
[/quote]

The theory is that Top 10 QBs don't need help to be Top 10. Apparently they do it all on their own.

[ellicottraven]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1351293869' post='1204315']
You could argue Flacco has the better armstrength in between the 2 but then agani, who else has a more accurate deep throw than Flacco?

Schaub is a veteran who is better at reading defenses. Stats wise Flacco is also behind him.

I'm just saying they are both "good" QB's and he may keep regressing as he did year after year despite Baltimore being in favor of the pass now.

They should pay him what he is and that is somewhere around Schaub money.
[/quote] That's about how far I would go frankly...

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351282497' post='1204218']
Roughly 7 years for 100 million. +/- 15 million. This puts his salary at about $14.28 million. I also advocate making his contract very heavy with incentives. He has the potential to be a Top 5 QB in a few years, so he should be compensated as such. That's the purpose of the incentives. But right now, I wouldn't give him more than $15 million.

Before any angry Flacco haters pounce on me for this post, let me say this. Approximately 14 million is the going rate for a franchise QB whether you like it or not. [i][b]Flacco IS a franchise QB, whether you believe it or not.[/b][/i] His price range is from roughly $13 million to $16 million. He is not elite just yet, but he is our guy. Please note, I said he is [u]not[/u] elite!
[/quote]

You were fine up until this point. You can say whatever you want or not... and tell us what to believe or not... but that doesn't make it true or a fact.

It's the 5th year baby, and plenty of people are still doubting and still questioning. Unless your definition of a "franchise QB" is a guy who rides the coattails of a defense and run game? I mean, hey... this is the perfect time to shine now that the defense has/had some big losses due to injury or free agency, and the league is more wide-open than ever in recent years as far as balance of power between teams. So if he's a "franchise QB" I would assume that means he can make you forget about those losses on defense with better play, not worse play.

I think we can all agree that coming off a BYE, there is no excuse for the Ravens not to dominate the Browns. Road game or not, the offense better be chewing up time of possession, and ending drives with points instead of punts or turnovers. The defense should not be giving up long, extended drives. And keeping a very limited Browns offense out of the end zone. Special teams... don't screw it up by giving any of their returners a chance to return kick-offs. Touchbacks are your friend!

[JO_75]

I say we end up paying him but Ozzie also needs to give him some kind of offensive line because I want to see what Joe can do behind a good solid offensive line.

[edreedfromtheu]

[quote name='BMOREHAWAII' timestamp='1351293869' post='1204315']
You could argue Flacco has the better armstrength in between the 2 but then agani, who else has a more accurate deep throw than Flacco?

[/quote]

Why does everyone think Flacco has incredible accuracy when throwing deep?

I mean, yes... he's hit receivers perfectly down the sideline before. But plenty of QBs can do that every once in a while. I don't notice it more frequently from Flacco than any other QB?

He's thrown PLENTY of balls that were way too short, or were lofted for way too long that the receiver had to sit there and wait for. He's also over-thrown receivers plenty of times deep. Yes, he's even over-thrown the fast guys like Torrey Smith. (and while I know you won't believe this since the media/game analyst tells you otherwise, but... sometimes the receivers were wide open when Flacco overthrew them!)

So where does this "Flacco throws the best deep-ball" or "Nobody has better accuracy with the deep ball than Flacco" notions come from? Some random statistic a fansite made up? He' got a strong arm, I just don't understand the notion that he's the most accurate in the league? You'd think the Ravens offense would be doing more if that was the case?

[bauer77]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1351316942' post='1204425']
You were fine up until this point. You can say whatever you want or not... and tell us what to believe or not... but that doesn't make it true or a fact.

It's the 5th year baby, and plenty of people are still doubting and still questioning. Unless your definition of a "franchise QB" is a guy who rides the coattails of a defense and run game? I mean, hey... this is the perfect time to shine now that the defense has/had some big losses due to injury or free agency, and the league is more wide-open than ever in recent years as far as balance of power between teams. So if he's a "franchise QB" I would assume that means he can make you forget about those losses on defense with better play, not worse play.

I think we can all agree that coming off a BYE, there is no excuse for the Ravens not to dominate the Browns. Road game or not, the offense better be chewing up time of possession, and ending drives with points instead of punts or turnovers. The defense should not be giving up long, extended drives. And keeping a very limited Browns offense out of the end zone. Special teams... don't screw it up by giving any of their returners a chance to return kick-offs. Touchbacks are your friend!
[/quote]


Notice how your the only one who thinks we need to get rid of Flacco and draft a worthy replacement? Not surprising obviously, we all know you are the biggest Flacco hater. How is Flacco riding the coattails of a run game? Cam doesn't even seem to know what that is so far this season. And we all know how the defense is doing. But how come you only seem to come out after a bad game? Didn't see you after the bengals, pats, or browns games. Or even the Cowboys game when he just did ok.

There's not going to be a franchise QB when we pick in the 2013 draft, so i don't know why your banking on that. So unless you plan on getting rid of Flacco and going 4-12, 5-11, 6-10 for the next few seasons till we go and try to find another QB, and because that will happen. Tyrod isn't better than Flacco, so he's not going to lead us to the promise land.

Flacco will more than likely be signed to a long term deal. I just don't see us going back to the draft to potentially draft another Boller. Or sign another potential Blake, Stewart, Wright, and the list goes on. So you might as well get used to Flacco.

[BloodRaven]

It's year 5 and he's still hovering around the mid 80's mark for QB rating, he's a good QB but in terms of development he's gone as far as he can go.

[bauer77]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1351322683' post='1204434']
It's year 5 and he's still hovering around the mid 80's mark for QB rating, he's a good QB but in terms of development he's gone as far as he can go.
[/quote]


I wonder what you would say if you realized that Peyton Manning was in the mid 80's until his 6th year? Should the Colts have given up on him too? Eli was in the mid 80's till his 6th year. Boy, the Giants are glad they didn't give up on him i bet? No, i'm not saying "wait till year 6" or anything, I just think we need to get him away from Cam. Give him more control of the offense. He hasn't fully developed yet.

[T3hRaven]

If he takes a top 10 salary it's an easy deal. I say $12-15 million is more than fair. What irritates me is when guys like Brees, who are products of a system and the incredible talent around them (and an offensive genius at HC), make huge demands in contracts that hurt the team. Over the course of the contract, getting $2-5 million less will not affect how great you benefits turn out. Players are so greedy sometimes, especially since a lot seem completely incapable of managing their money. I'm hoping Joe isn't like that.