Merged: Is Harbaugh too easy on his Coordinators?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1351125813' post='1203020']
Definitely not. Players are different but when you're dealing with coaches, that's the owner's money right from his pocket - not salary cap. I'm sure all hirings/firings are discussed with Bisciotti and other executives to okay it.
[/quote]
Im pretty sure the name cam has been brought up 5000 times in the last meeting alone. The reason why we have them is bc their is no one better, what do you wany Rick Neuheisel back?

[berad]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351126124' post='1203026']
Im pretty sure the name cam has been brought up 5000 times in the last meeting alone. The reason why we have them is bc their is no one better, what do you wany Rick Neuheisel back?
[/quote]

I do not. I haven't been pleased with Cameron's play-selection 100% of the time but he took our offense (along with the players we added) from being bottom of the barrel to at least being respectable. I know we could do worse because I've seen it.

[jaege]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351122468' post='1202989']
You guys are better off listening to me ramble all day. My commitee and I get so pissed off.

Employe 1. Skittles, and with how he is playing now, I am convinced that Joe Flacco is worse than Jamarcus Russel.
Employe 2. [profanity deleted] you, I like Hershey, and I agree, with how poor he played in the 4th quarter against Philly, and how bad he played in the first half, the Ravens have a bust
Me. HTF are they even related.
Anyway, back on topic, on Cam, no bc he is a decent coordinator, on Pees he is way too easy.
E1. No, Pees and Cam are HoF coordinators
E2. Hersheys are still better, and yes, that team sux cause of Flacco
Uggggh. How to improve the Ravens
Hire new CB coach
Hire new DC
Fire Cam and Promote Jim
E1/E2: Ok, next topic, why the Ravens will loose every game for the rest of this season ever.
Me. Ok you [i](the following had to be censored bc of profane language, bad acting, and sexual innuendo, and yes the mods did not type this up) [/i]
Remember people, vote me down if you hate..............
[/quote]


What?!? Can anyone interpret into English?

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='jaege' timestamp='1351127387' post='1203042']



What?!? Can anyone interpret into English?
[/quote]
Lol, I was joking..
One of the jokes was a reference to what ppl were posting earlier this week. Skittles>starburst. I made it Hershey's.
Second off, I say on Cam, coach h isn't going easy. But Cam at times is effective,
Pees is getting some slack, our d is horrible.
I say we promote Jim, fire dean, and find a DB coach.
My "employees" represent the trolls on the forum claiming that Flacco is a goat(other one, not greatest of all time), and me bringing up Russle. And then them losing all possible hope. Then I (this part of quote has been censored in your area) my employees.
Remember guys and gals, thumbs down if you hate.

[tctony]

Remember in 2006 when our offense was woefully underperforming and Billick had to fire his good friend Fassel? I wish Harbaugh would fire his good friend Cam. We have somebody else qualified to run an offense (Caldwell) on our staff already.

I don't know who we'd bump up to DC (Maybe the DL coach) but I really think anybody would be better than Pees.

I wish Harbaugh would make a move like this. His eventual downfall will be that he is too loyal. He can't tell somebody, whether it be a player or a coach, no. Harbaugh needs to grow a pair every now and then and tell Cam whats up.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1351131402' post='1203089']
Remember in 2006 when our offense was woefully underperforming and Billick had to fire his good friend Fassel? I wish Harbaugh would fire his good friend Cam. We have somebody else qualified to run an offense (Caldwell) on our staff already.

I wish Harbaugh would make a move like this. His eventual downfall will be that he is too loyal. He can't tell somebody, whether it be a player or a coach, no. Harbaugh needs to grow a pair every now and then and tell Cam whats up.
[/quote]

In all fairness, while I'm willing to go with Caldwell I don't believe he's ever been an NFL offensive coordinator. He was Peyton Manning's QB coach for all of those years, not the OC. We don't have solid evidence that he would be a good OC, but I'm more than willing to take the chance. It is necessary to point that out though.

I think part of the problem with Harbaugh telling someone "whats up" is that he doesn't know what's up. He was a special teams coach, and all he does for this football team is manage egos. When it comes to X's and O's he brings nothing to the table.

Has there ever been a topic in the form of a question with a more obvious answer?

[omar586]

here's the thing about the ravens that i'm sick of, for a decade we had a great D that only needed a decent QB to win a SB, we had Boller, now we have a decent QB with an average D, but our coordinators are holding us back, COME ON man!!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1351140051' post='1203148']
here's the thing about the ravens that i'm sick of, for a decade we had a great D that only needed a decent QB to win a SB, we had Boller, now we have a decent QB with an average D, but our coordinators are holding us back, COME ON man!!
[/quote]
If we had Flacco during the Boller era, we'd have a dynasty. Cam is fine, I think Harbs has to tell him to be more unpredictable. Pees has got to go, our CB don't excel in zone coverage, if jimmy presses his man, he's a pro bowler. Why did I ever defend him. I think it's also lack of talent at nt, Cody is an inconsistent run stuffer with big time potential, but doesnt seem to want it. Kemo is old, and Ngata is not capable of taking on the OL all by himself. Webbs injury hurts, but he switched between Ogeltree and Bryant, ther two and three. Jimmy basically locked down Austin, and Cary gave up two Tds to Dez. So it's not entirely pees' fault..... A decent QB, he was a decent QB in his rookie year, and puts almost idnetical numbers up with Ryan with decent wideouts.... He has no elite WR, and puts up near identical stats, and might be a pro bowler. He has had one bad game!!!!!!!! You know when this is working Cam isn't getting much authority, it's joes offense cam, let him take it damnitt.
And let me settle this damn debate, no Flacco isn't elite, but he will knock down the door in Feb this year.

[Worthy]

The bottom line is that we need to get to a winning formula of running the ball, and setting up play-action pass. And realize who to throw to on 3rd down! Pitta, Rice, Boldin or T. Smith should be targeted on 3rd downs! Stretch the field with a 2nd and short with a home run long ball to Torrey.

You've gotta protect Flacco -- when he's protected he can make any throw! So you've gotta keep in extra tight ends, RB's in the protection scheme and float them out into routes after they've effectively chipped or held up the rush! I'd rather keep 7 men in protection with 3 running routes then 5 running routes and getting sacked or pressured relentlessly!

[Npane171]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1351097683' post='1202643']
You are so right Neal. Rice rolled that first series but i think once we fall behind the OC and Harb's started to feel the pressure and had gotten pass happy and everyone knew what was coming then. A pass rush that was relentless, numerous blocked passes. Joe took a few hard shots in the pocket and the receivers just were not getting open. Was a lot of bad things happening at one time and just kept snow balling.
[/quote]

Joe was also very inaccurate that day, often over-throwing receivers big time.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1351167872' post='1203199']
Joe was also very inaccurate that day, often over-throwing receivers big time.
[/quote]
It doesnt hjelp that his OLine was doing a crappy job. Football is won on the lines, we have (Outside of three players) a generally young O-Line, they will only get better. We will be contenders for years to come when we get rid of both coordinators, and a new DB coach to replace Pags. Pees can stay as a LB coach, or Ray may take over.

[Npane171]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351177153' post='1203268']
It doesnt hjelp that his OLine was doing a crappy job. Football is won on the lines, we have (Outside of three players) a generally young O-Line, they will only get better. We will be contenders for years to come when we get rid of both coordinators, and a new DB coach to replace Pags. Pees can stay as a LB coach, or Ray may take over.
[/quote]

I don't dispute that one bit, but Joe HAS to learn to have better awarness in the pcoket, and release the ball quicker (although, his receivers have to get open, too). I think, personally, we rid ourselves of these coordinators now! We give Caldwell a chance the second half of the season. I'm not sure about who could take over the DC. Even before the injuires, we were a pretty legit defense last season. I cannot believe these same players just all of sudden lost their talent, or decided they just didn't care about the standard they themselves set for the defensive squad. The defensive shcemes are just horrid, and we can all say "x" is the problem, or "y" is the problem...but Dean Pees, first and foremost, is the problem. He clealry cannot utilize the talent like Pagno could; we need someone who can. The same is applicable for the offense. I mean, we looked so good in week one, then, once again, started to become inconsistent. Here's a couple things I noticed: The recievers ran different routes in week one, shorter but better for our offense. Then, Ray RIce started to chew up yards. This opened play action, which was such a force for us. We demolished we this plan. Week two. The no-huddle = non existent. Back to old school offense, unbalanced playcalling. Week 3 = back to no-huddle (but only after we embarrased ourselves for the first quarter to we get back to using like we did in week one). Week 4 = no huddle non-existent again, and back to unbalanced play calling. Scoring 9 points. Week 5 = back to no huddle (look good first drive of the game, tearing through Dallas' defense). Then, slowly but surely unbalanced playcalling creeps it's way in as Dallas begins to adjust their D to deal with our offense. Does Cam become innovative? No. There was NO short passing routes to Pitta or Bolding (just long bombs, typically Cameron routes, and unbalanced playcalling), obtruse call to Ray Rice, and no play action. We looked confused by the end of game, and we all knew we didn't deserve the win. Then...oh my god...then we have the Texans (a game I actually went to). Was I embarrased to be a Raven!! We actually have a good opening drive, surprisingly. Our defense manages to force three 3-and-outs. We had a REAL OPPORTUNITY to get some points on the board with those 3-and -outs! Flacco sacked, safety, entire mood of the game shifts. Ravens look pathetic on offense in every way possible. Now, here we are asking "What do we do??". Well, personally I think Caldwell should have his opportunity, since I belive (but have no evidence) that he had a major influence in implementing this no-huddle. He likey can steer it a lot better than Cam Cameron. However, even if we keep Cam some how, some way, it needs to return to it's roots. Short passes, chew up some yards with ray rice...keep the opposing D off balance...then open up some play-action. Get some points on the board early, trust our D the first couple of series, get back on the field and put some more points up (just like we did against the Bengals). Put the opposing team in panic mood, like the Texans did us. It's really not that hard...we just have numb-skull coaches.

[PeRK82]

One word " YES "

[PeRK82]

Stevie B. is going to step in sooner or later. But i think he will step in at the end of the yr if we don't make it to the S.B even with all the Injuries.

[ellicottraven]

Having spent the majority of his time coaching as an assistant, I am sure Harbs feels sympathetic towards the assistants and coordinators because he sees them working very hard trying to do their jobs. However, I don't see Harbs as a big picture coach who has the wherewithal to fire personnel when they are underperforming.... Having said that, I do believe that there is no need right now for any coaching changes because we are still leading the AFC North and have the second best record in the AFC....

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='Npane171' timestamp='1351186356' post='1203393']
I don't dispute that one bit, but Joe HAS to learn to have better awarness in the pcoket, and release the ball quicker (although, his receivers have to get open, too). I think, personally, we rid ourselves of these coordinators now! We give Caldwell a chance the second half of the season. I'm not sure about who could take over the DC. Even before the injuires, we were a pretty legit defense last season. I cannot believe these same players just all of sudden lost their talent, or decided they just didn't care about the standard they themselves set for the defensive squad. The defensive shcemes are just horrid, and we can all say "x" is the problem, or "y" is the problem...but Dean Pees, first and foremost, is the problem. He clealry cannot utilize the talent like Pagno could; we need someone who can. The same is applicable for the offense. I mean, we looked so good in week one, then, once again, started to become inconsistent. Here's a couple things I noticed: The recievers ran different routes in week one, shorter but better for our offense. Then, Ray RIce started to chew up yards. This opened play action, which was such a force for us. We demolished we this plan. Week two. The no-huddle = non existent. Back to old school offense, unbalanced playcalling. Week 3 = back to no-huddle (but only after we embarrased ourselves for the first quarter to we get back to using like we did in week one). Week 4 = no huddle non-existent again, and back to unbalanced play calling. Scoring 9 points. Week 5 = back to no huddle (look good first drive of the game, tearing through Dallas' defense). Then, slowly but surely unbalanced playcalling creeps it's way in as Dallas begins to adjust their D to deal with our offense. Does Cam become innovative? No. There was NO short passing routes to Pitta or Bolding (just long bombs, typically Cameron routes, and unbalanced playcalling), obtruse call to Ray Rice, and no play action. We looked confused by the end of game, and we all knew we didn't deserve the win. Then...oh my god...then we have the Texans (a game I actually went to). Was I embarrased to be a Raven!! We actually have a good opening drive, surprisingly. Our defense manages to force three 3-and-outs. We had a REAL OPPORTUNITY to get some points on the board with those 3-and -outs! Flacco sacked, safety, entire mood of the game shifts. Ravens look pathetic on offense in every way possible. Now, here we are asking "What do we do??". Well, personally I think Caldwell should have his opportunity, since I belive (but have no evidence) that he had a major influence in implementing this no-huddle. He likey can steer it a lot better than Cam Cameron. However, even if we keep Cam some how, some way, it needs to return to it's roots. Short passes, chew up some yards with ray rice...keep the opposing D off balance...then open up some play-action. Get some points on the board early, trust our D the first couple of series, get back on the field and put some more points up (just like we did against the Bengals). Put the opposing team in panic mood, like the Texans did us. It's really not that hard...we just have numb-skull coaches.
[/quote]
Look, Flacco is a top 10, Qb, I agree, he needs to be more aware in the pocket, but you also need to say that about a Rothelisberger, Vick, Manning, or any QB. Every QB will get sacked. And the Texans have the second best D in the NFL, and the dude who will win DPOY. But I agree, no huddle would make our O the best in the NFL. Look we have a top Ten QB, a WR breaking out in Smith, two solid TE, and a leathal weapon in Rice, and Cam calls a pass on every play. We need a 50-50 no huddle O, half of it where Flacco throws (on third and long), half of it where Rice Runs. We have two pro bowl caliber players at QB and RB, something no other team in the NFL has, we need to balance it out. And, if we run the no huddle, Flacco doesnt need to worry about time in the pocket. Pees is a clown tho, he needs to go.

[Guest RBates]

[b](Yes)[/b]......He is to easy on the offensive coordinator. Open the offense up. With all of this speed on offense, there is no way that these guys can all be covered. We have track stars at receiver, start using them to their strengths.

[Npane171]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1351209559' post='1203642']
Look, Flacco is a top 10, Qb, I agree, he needs to be more aware in the pocket, but you also need to say that about a Rothelisberger, Vick, Manning, or any QB. Every QB will get sacked. And the Texans have the second best D in the NFL, and the dude who will win DPOY. But I agree, no huddle would make our O the best in the NFL. Look we have a top Ten QB, a WR breaking out in Smith, two solid TE, and a leathal weapon in Rice, and Cam calls a pass on every play. We need a 50-50 no huddle O, half of it where Flacco throws (on third and long), half of it where Rice Runs. We have two pro bowl caliber players at QB and RB, something no other team in the NFL has, we need to balance it out. And, if we run the no huddle, Flacco doesnt need to worry about time in the pocket. Pees is a clown tho, he needs to go.
[/quote]

I guess you're right. You also have to factor in how bad Ray Rice is at blocking, as he even often misses a block altogether. I can't blame Joe for that.

Yes, Pees needs to go. He has embarrassed and demeaned this entire organization.

I hope "big news" happens tomorrow, as it is the end of the week. However, I won't hold my breath. I just hope they can get back to the kind of no huddle you and I were speaking about earlier. I was just blown away by our play action; in fact, when out no-huddle is dominating, I've even witnessed the Cameron end-around work and occasion this season.

[Guest RBates]

Pees is just terrible, there should be no words for him. Just show him the door.

But he can talk Cam into opening up the offense.