Texans Game General Comments - Post Game

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350923285' post='1200359']


No, I won't agree that Pees has a hand in this. I'll try a different approach to this, to prove my point.

I'll go back to my previous example of our CBs making poor decisions and paying the price.

Jimmy and Cary are consistently getting killled out there when playing man. Why? That is supposed to be their strength. Jimmy has very little experience, so we'll give him a pass for now, but the point still remains that in man coverage, your DC is trusting you to rely on your skill and knowledge to cover your man effectively. Jimmy and Cary are clearly not doing that. And it is magnified by the lack of a pass rush.

So, how do you mask that? You put them in a zone and let the play come to them. And as we all know, Pees has done that quite often as well, and then Pees gets roasted because once again, our pass rush is not there, and recievers are having a field day getting to the holes in the zones.

So the obvious common denominator here is that our pass rush is a major issue.

So now, Pees has to put our young CBs in position to succeed, while fixing the pass rush. How do you do that? He has come with blitzes from all over the place. Safety blitzes, CB blitzes, sending in the house, a couple different zone blitzes that I love the design of (why do you think Ellerbe has three sacks already, and he is a friggin' ILB??), and on and on. Still no pass rush.
And yet, the minute Suggs steps on the field, he is sacking Schaub, swatting passes and creating havoc.

So why is that? Why can Suggs get pressure, but nobody else can? Is it because Pees only knows how to use Suggs correctly, and nobody else? Or is it because Suggs is one of the only guys on the field who is both healthy and talented?

Obviously, it is because Suggs can make plays.

Which leads me back to the CB situation. Why do you think Cary was targeted and not Webb? Once again, because Webb is a playmaker who is good in coverage. If the scheme was an issue, Webb would have been exposed, but obviously that didn't happen. Everyone just targeted Cary and Jimmy, because they are playing like easy targets.

Now that we have a basic idea of why our pass defense is suspect, we can start to realize why we depend so much on dropping guys into zone, to help the CBs out.

And I'll let you fill in the blanks there, because a little post on the forum isn't nearly enough to cover all the problems with our defense. It starts up front, with the poor play from guys like Kemo, Cody, McPhee, the LBs, and trickles down from there.

Yes, I blame the players.
[/quote]

This post is so spot on. Thanks.

[Kinacid]

To a much respected Ravens team. Just wanted to come here to saw GG's. Yes it was an ugly game but I think your coach said it best...."Thats the kind of league it is" We lose to Green Bay bad then come back and win just like we lost.

The reason I wanted to come by here which Ive never done to any opposing team, was because I had a chance to sit next to some of your fans from your hometown at the game. They where extremely impressed by our fans and noise levels etc....

Point is they where very respectful...I'm not going to lie we talked a little trash, but at the end of the day...Beers where swapped. Ive gone to most of our home games from day one, and had my share of yelling at the opponents. I beleive one of your guys got hurt enough to result in our car to come pick him up. When he got up the entire stadium was cheering your boy off the field.

So like i said ive been to tons of game including our first playoff, and the respect i saw between our teams if combined would win the best "Taco" award.
Much respect, much love...Goodluck the rest of the season, and I have a feeling we will meet again.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Kinacid' timestamp='1351025670' post='1201986']
I beleive one of your guys got hurt enough to result in our car to come pick him up. When he got up the entire stadium was cheering your boy off the field.

.
[/quote]

Pretty amazing he came back in the third quarter and played out the rest of the game.

Thanks for stoping by and your kind words.

[Militant X 1]

i watched that awful game again so that i could analyze it and i noticed (like many in here have already mentioned) that Birk always looks back through his legs for "passing" plays just prior to the snap but straight ahead for "running" plays. that is a huge tell for defenses to spot on game film and to jump the snaps. i wonder why he does that?

~Mili

[rlh445]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350923285' post='1200359']
No, I won't agree that Pees has a hand in this. I'll try a different approach to this, to prove my point.

I'll go back to my previous example of our CBs making poor decisions and paying the price.

Jimmy and Cary are consistently getting killled out there when playing man. Why? That is supposed to be their strength. Jimmy has very little experience, so we'll give him a pass for now, but the point still remains that in man coverage, your DC is trusting you to rely on your skill and knowledge to cover your man effectively. Jimmy and Cary are clearly not doing that. And it is magnified by the lack of a pass rush.

So, how do you mask that? You put them in a zone and let the play come to them. And as we all know, Pees has done that quite often as well, and then Pees gets roasted because once again, our pass rush is not there, and recievers are having a field day getting to the holes in the zones.

So the obvious common denominator here is that our pass rush is a major issue.

So now, Pees has to put our young CBs in position to succeed, while fixing the pass rush. How do you do that? He has come with blitzes from all over the place. Safety blitzes, CB blitzes, sending in the house, a couple different zone blitzes that I love the design of (why do you think Ellerbe has three sacks already, and he is a friggin' ILB??), and on and on. Still no pass rush.
And yet, the minute Suggs steps on the field, he is sacking Schaub, swatting passes and creating havoc.

So why is that? Why can Suggs get pressure, but nobody else can? Is it because Pees only knows how to use Suggs correctly, and nobody else? Or is it because Suggs is one of the only guys on the field who is both healthy and talented?

Obviously, it is because Suggs can make plays.

Which leads me back to the CB situation. Why do you think Cary was targeted and not Webb? Once again, because Webb is a playmaker who is good in coverage. If the scheme was an issue, Webb would have been exposed, but obviously that didn't happen. Everyone just targeted Cary and Jimmy, because they are playing like easy targets.

Now that we have a basic idea of why our pass defense is suspect, we can start to realize why we depend so much on dropping guys into zone, to help the CBs out.

And I'll let you fill in the blanks there, because a little post on the forum isn't nearly enough to cover all the problems with our defense. It starts up front, with the poor play from guys like Kemo, Cody, McPhee, the LBs, and trickles down from there.

Yes, I blame the players.
[/quote]

Pretty much this, all day every day.....until the players get better, that is.

[Larryterri]

We started the season off on fire, and steadily declined to where we are now, everyone else started the season out terrible and have been improving. I hope someone in the front office notices this, we need to right the ship, now, today...

I have a bad feeling about this season...

[Larryterri]

I have to wonder if Suggs was following orders like everyone else, or if he was on the hunt. If he was going rogue, it sure worked and maybe they should take notice...

[Bravens292]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1350938223' post='1200802']
Don't act like you had supreme insight into Vontaze's career. The odds of him growing up and becoming a good player were completely against him. The fact that he is playing well right now is completely surprising. You know, there were 30 other teams that didn't sign him, and for good reason. The Bengals took a flier on a risky player, got lucky, and now they look like geniuses.
[/quote]

I heard Cris Collinsworth say on SNF Mike Zimmer didn't even want him!

[DocMartin]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350923285' post='1200359']


No, I won't agree that Pees has a hand in this. I'll try a different approach to this, to prove my point.

I'll go back to my previous example of our CBs making poor decisions and paying the price.

Jimmy and Cary are consistently getting killled out there when playing man. Why? That is supposed to be their strength. Jimmy has very little experience, so we'll give him a pass for now, but the point still remains that in man coverage, your DC is trusting you to rely on your skill and knowledge to cover your man effectively. Jimmy and Cary are clearly not doing that. And it is magnified by the lack of a pass rush.

So, how do you mask that? You put them in a zone and let the play come to them. And as we all know, Pees has done that quite often as well, and then Pees gets roasted because once again, our pass rush is not there, and recievers are having a field day getting to the holes in the zones.

So the obvious common denominator here is that our pass rush is a major issue.

So now, Pees has to put our young CBs in position to succeed, while fixing the pass rush. How do you do that? He has come with blitzes from all over the place. Safety blitzes, CB blitzes, sending in the house, a couple different zone blitzes that I love the design of (why do you think Ellerbe has three sacks already, and he is a friggin' ILB??), and on and on. Still no pass rush.
And yet, the minute Suggs steps on the field, he is sacking Schaub, swatting passes and creating havoc.

So why is that? Why can Suggs get pressure, but nobody else can? Is it because Pees only knows how to use Suggs correctly, and nobody else? Or is it because Suggs is one of the only guys on the field who is both healthy and talented?

Obviously, it is because Suggs can make plays.

Which leads me back to the CB situation. Why do you think Cary was targeted and not Webb? Once again, because Webb is a playmaker who is good in coverage. If the scheme was an issue, Webb would have been exposed, but obviously that didn't happen. Everyone just targeted Cary and Jimmy, because they are playing like easy targets.

Now that we have a basic idea of why our pass defense is suspect, we can start to realize why we depend so much on dropping guys into zone, to help the CBs out.

And I'll let you fill in the blanks there, because a little post on the forum isn't nearly enough to cover all the problems with our defense. It starts up front, with the poor play from guys like Kemo, Cody, McPhee, the LBs, and trickles down from there.

Yes, I blame the players.
[/quote]
I agree with the poor play displayed by players on the field.
But I also believe D-Coordinator needs to make proper adjustments, which has not happened. Look at last game, linebacker Kruger was covering (or trying to cover) WR Andre Johnson, the Pro Bowler!? What kind of a scheme is that? Someone said zone coverage, but do you expect the outside linebacker to run stride for stride with Pro Bowl Wideout? Does Pees believe this is a good matchup?
And I like the fact Ellerbe has 3 sacks, but I noticed the opposing TE's catching balls with no linebacker in sight, especially on crossing routes. So, is it Ellerbe or Pollard responsibility? Something is not right, is it the scheme or lack of communication.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1350938402' post='1200813']
I really don't think our problems are all that complex, which is why I do not understand how they haven't been addressed by people whose job it is to fix these problems.

Defense is allowing too much rushing and corners are not sufficient: establish a better pass rush. If they cannot get the ball down the field, our corner play won't matter quite as much. With Suggs back and Ngata having time to heal, we do have personnel to do that. Maybe a shift in defensive scheme could help with the pass rush. Pees knows there is a problem there.

Offense is inconsistent on the road: This isn't a new problem. The reasoning behind this is incredibly obvious to. Here's how our road games almost always go... we get behind early, we abandon the run, Joe throws picks or just inaccurate throws, he gets flustered, gets sacked, and we are completely stagnant. Ray Rice needs to get the ball! We cannot give up so quickly because we're behind by one touchdown. I can understand throwing the ball when we're down by three scores, but come on. We just paid Ray Rice a lot of money and he's one of the best RBs in the league. [b]There's NO excuse for throwing the ball on every single second and short situation! [/b]We cannot be so quick to give up on him. [b]Also, play action! [/b]It actually works, we've seen it time and time again!

I hope Harbaugh can have the balls to tell the OC and DC what needs to be done. I feel like he gives them too much control sometimes.
[/quote]

Yea I just watched the game this morning, and these two things really stood out. The momentum really started to change after around that safety. It was either the drive before that or the drive right after that, we threw on 1st down (I'm fine with that to keep the defense off guard) It was a gain of 7 yards. Then we threw twice, back to back, and had to punt. At that point, plus the safety, the offense started to completely fall apart. They lost all momentum and Joe stopped with the fundamentals (staring down receivers and getting the ball batted down, not going through pre snap reads and just letting huge linebackers run free at him, and over throwing guys by 10 yards.) Joe is not a good QB when he gets frustrated. We needed to pull of some nice running gains to be able to give him some time to think and work through his issues.

As for the play action, this one baffles me. I saw some great play action in pre season, and week 1. Since then it has been so few and far between, and when its done, it is the sloppiest nonchalant bull crap I have ever seen. I watched at least two play action passes from Flacco in that game. He never even got close to Rice, showed the ball and pulled it back and threw. It was so obvious somebody in the upper deck at Reliant stadium could have seen this was not a running play. You actually have to try to sell it and act like you care, if you are going to have a good offense in the NFL. The Ravens have alot of work to do.

[dirtybird10]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1351108465' post='1202820']
I heard Cris Collinsworth say on SNF Mike Zimmer didn't even want him!
[/quote]
Yea well the Bengals are a team that probably should not be going after a guy like Burfict, given their track record on character. The Ravens were the perfect team to do so. He was a 1st round talent that you could have used your last pick on and get the kid for nothing. I was baffled that we did not pick him up in the later rounds... still am.

[callahan09]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1351168004' post='1203201']
[b][size=4]Pass interference is the worst penalty in football.

If you poke somebody's eyeball out, you get a a 15-yard penalty.

If you make "contact" with the receiver, it could be 60 yards

([color=#4B0082]70 yards if you have QB Joe Flacco[/color]) and an automatic 1st down.

Makes a lot of sense.

Welcome to the new NFL.[/size][/b][/quote]

Yes, I am responding to your signature, haha. The thing is, the rule exists as it is because in theory the pass would have been a catch if not for the defensive interference, so they are rewarding the offense, essentially, with the catch. It still isn't as good as the catch itself would have been, because it leaves no room for yards after the catch, and interference in the end zone does not reward the offense with a touchdown.

[The Raven]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1351168004' post='1203201']
I agree with the poor play displayed by players on the field.
But I also believe D-Coordinator needs to make proper adjustments, which has not happened. Look at last game, linebacker Kruger was covering (or trying to cover) WR Andre Johnson, the Pro Bowler!? What kind of a scheme is that? Someone said zone coverage, but do you expect the outside linebacker to run stride for stride with Pro Bowl Wideout? Does Pees believe this is a good matchup?
And I like the fact Ellerbe has 3 sacks, but I noticed the opposing TE's catching balls with no linebacker in sight, especially on crossing routes. So, is it Ellerbe or Pollard responsibility? Something is not right, is it the scheme or lack of communication.
[/quote]

Yes, Doc. It's zone coverage. A very simple concept to understand.

[DocMartin]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1351174790' post='1203249']


Yes, Doc. It's zone coverage. A very simple concept to understand.
[/quote]
I understand zone coverage. But I don't understand why in the world was Kruger matched against Pro Bowl Wide Receiver? Maybe he didn't get off the field in time for sub? If anything you could put him in there against their TE, and that's a maybe. But looking at the way our corners are playing, I could see why, maybe they couldn't decide who's covering who? Maybe they were thinking Webb was still on the field at No. 1 CB spot?

[The Raven]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1351178846' post='1203292']
I understand zone coverage. But I don't understand why in the world was Kruger matched against Pro Bowl Wide Receiver? Maybe he didn't get off the field in time for sub? If anything you could put him in there against their TE, and that's a maybe. But looking at the way our corners are playing, I could see why, maybe they couldn't decide who's covering who? Maybe they were thinking Webb was still on the field at No. 1 CB spot?
[/quote]

Lemme break this down for you. Kruger dropped into a zone. Andre Johnson ran into his zone. Kruger covered him. Simple.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='Neil' timestamp='1350850711' post='1198248']
I am going to be enjoying the blind panic this week.
[/quote]

Can I ask why you call it blind? I'm sure plenty of people watch the games, read the news and pay close attention to the team. What makes it blind? I understand we are 5-2, but why would it be blind as if to insinuate unknowledgeable panic if we are struggling despite winning the past few games?

[admartian]

[quote name='Kinacid' timestamp='1351025670' post='1201986']
To a much respected Ravens team. Just wanted to come here to saw GG's. Yes it was an ugly game but I think your coach said it best...."Thats the kind of league it is" We lose to Green Bay bad then come back and win just like we lost.

The reason I wanted to come by here which Ive never done to any opposing team, was because I had a chance to sit next to some of your fans from your hometown at the game. They where extremely impressed by our fans and noise levels etc....

Point is they where very respectful...I'm not going to lie we talked a little trash, but at the end of the day...Beers where swapped. Ive gone to most of our home games from day one, and had my share of yelling at the opponents. I beleive one of your guys got hurt enough to result in our car to come pick him up. When he got up the entire stadium was cheering your boy off the field.

So like i said ive been to tons of game including our first playoff, and the respect i saw between our teams if combined would win the best "Taco" award.
Much respect, much love...Goodluck the rest of the season, and I have a feeling we will meet again.
[/quote]Thanks for the words.

Hope we do - at this rate, it doesn't look great though.
[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1351108465' post='1202820']
I heard Cris Collinsworth say on SNF Mike Zimmer didn't even want him!
[/quote]I'm still annoyed the "Great OZ' didn't even take him inas a UDFA. From a guy that loves bargains, there was a completely good bargain there even if it didn't turn out.

SMH

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1351192452' post='1203498']


Can I ask why you call it blind? I'm sure plenty of people watch the games, read the news and pay close attention to the team. What makes it blind? I understand we are 5-2, but why would it be blind as if to insinuate unknowledgeable panic if we are struggling despite winning the past few games?
[/quote]

It just seems to a lot of folks as a knee- jerk reaction because of a blow out loss. I'm not saying the Ravens dont have issues, because they do, but if you have been paying attention to this team over the past few years problems tend to be worked on. Weaknesses are improved on, and the bye week is the perfect time to make these improvements.

Now if the Ravens come out after the bye and still make the same mistakes and look just as awful...I and probably many others will become concerned. I doubt that will be the case though based on the track record of this team.

There are a lot of reasons for optimism like Suggs coming back and a chance for our defense to heal and solve some technical problems.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1351193640' post='1203510']
It just seems to a lot of folks as a knee- jerk reaction because of a blow out loss. I'm not saying the Ravens dont have issues, because they do, but if you have been paying attention to this team over the past few years problems tend to be worked on. Weaknesses are improved on, and the bye week is the perfect time to make these improvements.

Now if the Ravens come out after the bye and still make the same mistakes and look just as awful...I and probably many others will become concerned. I doubt that will be the case though based on the track record of this team.

There are a lot of reasons for optimism like Suggs coming back and a chance for our defense to heal and solve some technical problems.
[/quote]

I agree with your assessment. I just don't see why he'd say "blind" when most people have comparable access to information to form their opinions and assessments. I agree we have plenty of upside, but plenty of work to do as well. For instance, I'm highly upset at the loss, but I don't think we are out of the playoffs or doomed or anything.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1351194247' post='1203518']
I agree with your assessment. I just don't see why he'd say "blind" when most people have comparable access to information to form their opinions and assessments. I agree we have plenty of upside, but plenty of work to do as well. For instance, I'm highly upset at the loss, but I don't think we are out of the playoffs or doomed or anything.
[/quote]

Maybe "blind" isnt the correct word, but there are a lot of hysterical people out there. Ever read the comments in the news section? I think you might get an idea where that comment is coming from.

[Worthy]

You know there's a saying -- it's never as bad as it looks and never as great as it seems!

The blowout loss was an anomaly of getting whipped but the real problem was the play calling when we were deep and calling a PASS play on 2nd and 4 or so. Why pass when you are deep -- you're only asking for a pick 6 with the way the Texans D Line is playing. We should have hammered it down their throats until they proved they could have stopped the run. If we don't give up the safety then the momentum wouldn't have shifted. From that point the tempo of the game changed because from that point they get the 2 -- then scored a TD on the safety turnover -- then the next series we threw a pass that was deflected for a pick 6 and suddenly in a span of a few seconds we were down so much we FORGOT our running game! That was the tempo changer -- before the safety we were in control and the momentum change turned the entire game around from which we could never recover.

We have a good offense -- potential to be a GREAT offense -- but it doesn't run through Joe -- but rather an offense that must run through both Joe and Ray -- we have a 2 cylinder engine.

[b]However, I did see we figured out how to get a yard on 3rd down FINALLY! Rush to the LINE, quick snap count and QB draw. That's our 3 and short bread and butter play and something we should do IMMEDIATELY without hesitation until teams show they can stop it -- which I dont think you can with a 6'6 big QB.[/b]

Let's get back to the basics -- run the ball -- forget the no huddle unless we see a defense scheme we can exploit and run it sporadically so that teams are constantly caught off guard with substitutions.

As far as defense is concerned -- it's a concern -- but the boyz will be back -- they have too much pride to go down so hard. This team will figure out a defensive scheme to be decent -- and we won't be great again until we get another Defensive lineman to line up opposite Ngata.

Personally I think we should get back to becoming a physical team on press coverage and if a DB gets beat -- oh well -- but at least you have a chance of something happening. Let em learn -- as hard as it is -- young corners take time to develop -- however you can't develop them if they are playing 10 yards off the line and allowing catches to be made and simply tackling.

Don't get caught in the negativity -- we are a solid football team that will respond once the season starts up again. I still believe we'll finish 12-4 with a bye in the first round of the playoffs. However, the championship game will run through the Texans and if we face them again we better learn our lessons from this game!

[The Raven]

[quote name='admartian' timestamp='1351193217' post='1203505']
Thanks for the words.

Hope we do - at this rate, it doesn't look great though.
[b]I'm still annoyed the "Great OZ' didn't even take him inas a UDFA. From a guy that loves bargains, there was a completely good bargain there even if it didn't turn out.[/b]

SMH
[/quote]
For very good reason. Burfict was a thug and showed a complete lack of work ethic. He didn't deserve to be drafted and his poor character influenced Ozzie not to sign him. You can't blame Ozzie for not signing him.

[Neil]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1351192452' post='1203498']
Can I ask why you call it blind? I'm sure plenty of people watch the games, read the news and pay close attention to the team. What makes it blind? I understand we are 5-2, but why would it be blind as if to insinuate unknowledgeable panic if we are struggling despite winning the past few games?
[/quote]
This is why I was calling it blind. The Ravens are a fundamentally strong team that laid an egg on the road. After a loss, especially a bad one against a strong team, people tend to forget the good things that happened earlier in the year and emphasize the trends of the one bad week.