Texans Game General Comments - Post Game

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='blazeon32' timestamp='1350863112' post='1199109']
Other than Ray Rice and Ladarious Webb, what picks by Ozzie have been great in the past five years. Please don't say Joe Flacco because it's five years in and he is still as inconsistent as ever.
[/quote]
Kelechi Osemele, Yanda, Dennis Pitta? Honestly Ramon Harewood, who should have been started over bobbie williams...

Who's decision was it to start williams. I should slap them.

[Ravenseconbeast]

If there was a resume of portfolio to lose, this game had to be it.

From the start, it looked like we were playing our game, and we knew what we wanted to do. Then one-by-one, key players were missing their assignment.

-Dennis Pitta was out of place, didnt try to extend his hand to get Flacco's ball. 1st missed completion.
-Then it started to trickle down for offense. Boom, FG instead of TD.
-Next play, our defense were stout, and everyone played their role and immediately set the edge to stop the run.
-Then few plays later, texans were batting Flacco's ball, over and over, and over, and over. O-line refuse to recognize this play, Flacco refuse to see linebackers are batting his ball and kept repeating the same thing.
-few plays later and three straight 3 & outs, we completely abandoned our run game with only 10 points behind.
-we kept passing, stopped mixing plays. [b]Now [/b]texans whole scheme are against passing vs a very 1-dimensonal passing team.
-Then [b]1 INT, 2 INT[/b]...the whole freaking LINEBACKERS arent even trying to sack, they just keep batting the balls!.
-then after that our defense were dead tired from comming back few minutes from rest.
-after being behind +27 points it just stopped being matter anymore....game over.

We had no knack for smart plays to attack their defense. Those 5 consecutive 3 & outs were atrocious.

Coaches needs to wake up and do their job. They have to be accountable and get our players in line, or else put themselves out of the team.

If our personnel & our players dont wake up from this game...then get the hell out of Ravens uniform and find another job at CFL or wherever these coaches belong.

[K-Dog]

some times there just IS NO ANSWER.
Flacco had a bad day no question. Cut him? Bench him ? No. No way.
Cam, Pees, Harbaugh, Williams, Rice, Leach, Pollard, Reed, Oher, Jones, every player on the team had some hand in this loss. Some more than others but win as a team, loose as a team. That is simple reality.
Some times there is no solution, some times it simply is what it is.
Just because so & so messed up or didnt bring their A game doesnt mean they need to be or should be replaced.
Some times a loss is just a loss and a butt whoopin' is simply a butt whoopin.

[ravensdfan]

I'm not one saying the sky is falling because the fact is no one aside from the team we just played has shown any signs of domination in the AFC.

However, this is not just one game. This isn't even just one season. The Jekyll and Hyde production of our offense has been an ongoing event and I don't buy the crap about crowd noise, etc etc etc. There is the same talent on the field away as at home. That means it is coaching, plain and simple. Personally, I believe it has a lot to with Cam's play calling. We already know that Joe has limited choices when he audibles and is only allowed to audible under certain conditions. The Cam experiment has run its course. It's time Steve. No matter what Harbaugh says.

I know we've lost personnel on defense but really. This is ridiculous and again, it is Pees. We do not have a strong enough line to rush 3 with any effectiveness at all. And yet we keep doing it, over and over and over. We do not have CBs (Webb aside) that are talented enough to hold with their man for over 4 seconds apparently. And yet we do not come up with creative blitz packages to help them out. We do not excel in zone. And yet we keep on playing zone. Pees just does not get it. No adjustments from him either at half-time.

I know the defense did not get a lot of help from the offense today. I get that. Still, that performance was inexcusable. The O line. Good grief. That is just beyond sad. Again though, same O line that holds up at home. Coaching. Doesn't help that Cam has Flacco dropping back to pass in our own end zone rather than just running Rice and punting if necessary to fignt again another day but...still.

We didn't just lose today. We got exposed. We can limp through the rest of the season, most likely still punch a ticket to the playoffs, but I don't expect much from us in the post season with our current coordinators.

[Crabcakes&Football]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1350864350' post='1199181']
I'm not one saying the sky is falling because the fact is no one aside from the team we just played has shown any signs of domination in the AFC.

However, this is not just one game. This isn't even just one season. The Jekyll and Hyde production of our offense has been an ongoing event and I don't buy the crap about crowd noise, etc etc etc. There is the same talent on the field away as at home. That means it is coaching, plain and simple. Personally, I believe it has a lot to with Cam's play calling. We already know that Joe has limited choices when he audibles and is only allowed to audible under certain conditions. The Cam experiment has run its course. It's time Steve. No matter what Harbaugh says.

I know we've lost personnel on defense but really. This is ridiculous and again, it is Pees. We do not have a strong enough line to rush 3 with any effectiveness at all. And yet we keep doing it, over and over and over. We do not have CBs (Webb aside) that are talented enough to hold with their man for over 4 seconds apparently. And yet we do not come up with creative blitz packages to help them out. We do not excel in zone. And yet we keep on playing zone. Pees just does not get it. No adjustments from him either at half-time.

I know the defense did not get a lot of help from the offense today. I get that. Still, that performance was inexcusable. The O line. Good grief. That is just beyond sad. Again though, same O line that holds up at home. Coaching. Doesn't help that Cam has Flacco dropping back to pass in our own end zone rather than just running Rice and punting if necessary to fignt again another day but...still.

We didn't just lose today. We got exposed. We can limp through the rest of the season, most likely still punch a ticket to the playoffs, but I don't expect much from us in the post season with our current coordinators.
[/quote]

You should have been a carpenter, because you just hit the nail on the head.

[Nitrofish]

Hey guys... come on this is not what I expect to hear from Ravens fans. These are the same kind of posts on the Texans board after the humiliating loss to the Packers, yet you see what happened this week.

You win together and you lose together. Finger pointing will not get you anywhere except divided. I realize that message boards do not play the games, but fan support is a big deal on players minds IMHO and even though they most likely do not directly read these posts, they trickle into allot of water coller discussions, TV shows and eventually into ears of the players.

You guys are better than this and I for one do not believe this is the end for the Ravens.

Having said that... I must say I was puzzled that Rice was not fed the ball, which I fully expected, so there may be something to this idea that someone is trying to prove Flacco is an elite QB instead of playing to your teams strengths. The no huddle is not the Ravens team identity. Ball control, is, or at least should be. When the no huddle is going great it does great things, but when it is not doing so great, Ravens struggle to control the ball and the clock.

I think the mistake was at the coaches level who wanted to try to duplicate what Greenbay did to Houston, and let's be honest. No matter which side of the Joe Flacco argument you stand on... FLACCO IS NO RODGERS! and never will be so why try to force that?

Keep your heads up guys... plenty of season to go.

[Florida Ravens Fan]

[quote name='Nitrofish' timestamp='1350903027' post='1199962']
Hey guys... come on this is not what I expect to hear from Ravens fans. These are the same kind of posts on the Texans board after the humiliating loss to the Packers, yet you see what happened this week.

You win together and you lose together. Finger pointing will not get you anywhere except divided. I realize that message boards do not play the games, but fan support is a big deal on players minds IMHO and even though they most likely do not directly read these posts, they trickle into allot of water coller discussions, TV shows and eventually into ears of the players.

You guys are better than this and I for one do not believe this is the end for the Ravens.

Having said that... I must say I was puzzled that Rice was not fed the ball, which I fully expected, so there may be something to this idea that someone is trying to prove Flacco is an elite QB instead of playing to your teams strengths. The no huddle is not the Ravens team identity. Ball control, is, or at least should be. When the no huddle is going great it does great things, but when it is not doing so great, Ravens struggle to control the ball and the clock.

I think the mistake was at the coaches level who wanted to try to duplicate what Greenbay did to Houston, and let's be honest. No matter which side of the Joe Flacco argument you stand on... FLACCO IS NO RODGERS! and never will be so why try to force that?

Keep your heads up guys... plenty of season to go.
[/quote]

Thanks for the positive post, but this is our fourth bad performance in a row, so its more than just getting blown ouy by you guys. And its sad when even the opposing teams fans can point out our issues with the gameplan. As you stated we should of kept running the ball, which we started doing well, then abandoned for no apparent reason.

[EDEC]

Ravens = Paper Champs

Defense, boo
Offense, boo


here comes the boo birds......

[A Fish Called Yanda]

Silver lining: after the pending implosion, maybe we can get rid of both Cam Cameron and Dean Pees?

[texanfan2002]

Just wanted to send an apology to Raven fans for the tacky, classless way Texan fans treated Jacoby Jones. Totally uncalled for! JJ didn't work out for us, but, he seems to be doing a pretty good job for you, and I wish him well. While a Texan, he was loyal, worked hard, and was dedicated to our team. He muffed up in the playoffs last year and some fans are unforgiving. PLUS, with a little success comes TONS of bandwagoners who don't know squat about football! Most diehard Texan fans I know, who have suffered from the beginning with our team, did not like all the boos either. So, just wanted you all to know some of us try to remain grounded and maintain a little class.

Good luck to your team the rest of the season! Hopefully we will get the chance to host your team in the playoffs this year. Raven fans were awesome to us when we visited last year, treated us with respect and just good old fashioned football fun. We will try to return the favor!!

[Moderator 3]

Thanks for being classy.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='texanfan2002' timestamp='1350910446' post='1200023']
Just wanted to send an apology to Raven fans for the tacky, classless way Texan fans treated Jacoby Jones. Totally uncalled for! JJ didn't work out for us, but, he seems to be doing a pretty good job for you, and I wish him well. While a Texan, he was loyal, worked hard, and was dedicated to our team. He muffed up in the playoffs last year and some fans are unforgiving. PLUS, with a little success comes TONS of bandwagoners who don't know squat about football! Most diehard Texan fans I know, who have suffered from the beginning with our team, did not like all the boos either. So, just wanted you all to know some of us try to remain grounded and maintain a little class.

Good luck to your team the rest of the season! Hopefully we will get the chance to host your team in the playoffs this year. Raven fans were awesome to us when we visited last year, treated us with respect and just good old fashioned football fun. We will try to return the favor!!
[/quote]

Thanks for the nice post. I can only imagine how Ravens' fans might react if Lee Evans were to come to town so don't sweat it too much

I'm glad you were treated well when you visited!

[The Raven]

[quote name='Nitrofish' timestamp='1350903027' post='1199962']
Hey guys... come on this is not what I expect to hear from Ravens fans. These are the same kind of posts on the Texans board after the humiliating loss to the Packers, yet you see what happened this week.

You win together and you lose together. Finger pointing will not get you anywhere except divided. I realize that message boards do not play the games, but fan support is a big deal on players minds IMHO and even though they most likely do not directly read these posts, they trickle into allot of water coller discussions, TV shows and eventually into ears of the players.

You guys are better than this and I for one do not believe this is the end for the Ravens.

Having said that... I must say I was puzzled that Rice was not fed the ball, which I fully expected, so there may be something to this idea that someone is trying to prove Flacco is an elite QB instead of playing to your teams strengths. The no huddle is not the Ravens team identity. Ball control, is, or at least should be. When the no huddle is going great it does great things, but when it is not doing so great, Ravens struggle to control the ball and the clock.

I think the mistake was at the coaches level who wanted to try to duplicate what Greenbay did to Houston, and let's be honest. No matter which side of the Joe Flacco argument you stand on... FLACCO IS NO RODGERS! and never will be so why try to force that?

Keep your heads up guys... plenty of season to go.
[/quote]
[quote name='texanfan2002' timestamp='1350910446' post='1200023']
Just wanted to send an apology to Raven fans for the tacky, classless way Texan fans treated Jacoby Jones. Totally uncalled for! JJ didn't work out for us, but, he seems to be doing a pretty good job for you, and I wish him well. While a Texan, he was loyal, worked hard, and was dedicated to our team. He muffed up in the playoffs last year and some fans are unforgiving. PLUS, with a little success comes TONS of bandwagoners who don't know squat about football! Most diehard Texan fans I know, who have suffered from the beginning with our team, did not like all the boos either. So, just wanted you all to know some of us try to remain grounded and maintain a little class.

Good luck to your team the rest of the season! Hopefully we will get the chance to host your team in the playoffs this year. Raven fans were awesome to us when we visited last year, treated us with respect and just good old fashioned football fun. We will try to return the favor!!
[/quote]

Thanks! I have a ton of respect and admiration for your organization. The Texans are a great team. Thanks for being classy. Good luck the rest of the way; hope to see y'all in the AFCCG

[flynismo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1350912984' post='1200054']
I love Pees' knowledge of the game, and his ability to give a plethora of different looks. But his flaw seems to be identical to Cam's; He is completely unable to mask the deficiencies of his defense or play his defenders to their strength.
[/quote]

How do you mask poor tackling? Or your CBs constantly being burned by their mental errors? Or a front seven that physically cannot do their individual jobs? I mean really, if you show me a DC who can do that, his name must start with a J and rhyme with Cheesus.

In regard to playing to their strength, I'll use one of my favorite prospects as an example -- The Jimmy.
Everyone here was crying about how we should be using him and Cary in man more (I dont know why, because they were already doing that a lot, but I digress...).

Now, think back to those big plays Jimmy gave up. They all came on man coverage.
Same with Cary.

If man is their strength, and they are still getting whooped, and when we drop to zone, and we have zero pass rush, it leaves Pees in a no win situation

[blazeon32]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1350863538' post='1199134']
Kelechi Osemele, Yanda, Dennis Pitta? Honestly Ramon Harewood, who should have been started over bobbie williams...

Who's decision was it to start williams. I should slap them.
[/quote] Osemele has not proving anything yet, Yanda, I'll give you that one, but in my opinion he's not great as was proven with the line not holding up and allowing passes to be batted down, Dennis Pitta, still not a proven big threat because didn't he dropped a pass or two today, Ramon Harewood, not proven yet.

[jazz1988]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1350864350' post='1199181']
I'm not one saying the sky is falling because the fact is no one aside from the team we just played has shown any signs of domination in the AFC.

However, this is not just one game. This isn't even just one season. The Jekyll and Hyde production of our offense has been an ongoing event and I don't buy the crap about crowd noise, etc etc etc. There is the same talent on the field away as at home. That means it is coaching, plain and simple. Personally, [b]I believe it has a lot to with Cam's play calling. We already know that Joe has limited choices when he audibles and is only allowed to audible under certain conditions. The Cam experiment has run its course. It's time Steve. No matter what Harbaugh says.[/b]

I know we've lost personnel on defense but really. This is ridiculous and again, it is Pees. We do not have a strong enough line to rush 3 with any effectiveness at all. And yet we keep doing it, over and over and over. We do not have CBs (Webb aside) that are talented enough to hold with their man for over 4 seconds apparently. And yet we do not come up with creative blitz packages to help them out. We do not excel in zone. And yet we keep on playing zone. Pees just does not get it. No adjustments from him either at half-time.

I know the defense did not get a lot of help from the offense today. I get that. Still, that performance was inexcusable. The O line. Good grief. That is just beyond sad. Again though, same O line that holds up at home. Coaching. Doesn't help that Cam has Flacco dropping back to pass in our own end zone rather than just running Rice and punting if necessary to fignt again another day but...still.

We didn't just lose today. We got exposed. We can limp through the rest of the season, most likely still punch a ticket to the playoffs, but I don't expect much from us in the post season with our current coordinators.
[/quote]

I have seen plenty of times where Raven fans such as your self believe Cam is limiting Joe Flacco but I honestly just dont believe it. There's really no clear evidence to prove so and Flacco isn't a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning; He's definately smart but i think ravens fans expect him to audible just about 80 or 90% of the time which is just not gonna happen because he probably isn't or never will be at that level.


Every time Joe Flacco has a bad day it seem like its always cam fault but why can't it be Flacco fault some times. I seen some say flacco look rattled, he was over throwing receivers, and etc but for some reason it's still cam fault but maybe cam does has some wrong doing . Cam probably should had stuck with the run game more but at the same time when you got guys like Boldin, Smith, Jones, Pitta, Dickson, Rice, and etc to use in the passing game I can understand how a coach would feel like their passing game should be unstoppable or atleast consistently go with it.

I personally believe the ravens should get back to being a run first offense because I think the pass first offense is something that's too much for Joe Flacco to handle

[Moderator 3]

I'm not sure "pass first" is too much for Flacco to handle, but it might be too much for our offense as a whole to handle. When your QB has grass stains all over the back and sides of his uniform, something isn't working.

[mocitytexan]

Don't let your heads down Ravens fans. We felt the same way when GB Packers desimated us. We were clueless as to what happened. We took that whippin as a good lesson, and you guys should have the same aproach. I'm positve we will see you guys in Jan 13.' Hopefully it is without ice and snow and instead in warm insulated Reliant Stadium.

[flynismo]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1350918452' post='1200194']
I have seen plenty of times where Raven fans such as your self believe Cam is limiting Joe Flacco but I honestly just dont believe it. There's really no clear evidence to prove so and Flacco isn't a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning; He's definately smart but i think ravens fans expect him to audible just about 80 or 90% of the time which is just not gonna happen because he probably isn't or never will be at that level.


[b]Every time Joe Flacco has a bad day it seem like its always cam fault but why can't it be Flacco fault some times.[/b] I seen some say flacco look rattled, he was over throwing receivers, and etc but for some reason it's still cam fault but maybe cam does has some wrong doing . Cam probably should had stuck with the run game more but at the same time when you got guys like Boldin, Smith, Jones, Pitta, Dickson, Rice, and etc to use in the passing game I can understand how a coach would feel like their passing game should be unstoppable or atleast consistently go with it.

[b]I personally believe the ravens should get back to being a run first offense because I think the pass first offense is something that's too much for Joe Flacco to handle[/b]
[/quote]

To your first point, the answer is simple. It rarely is Flacco's fault when the offense has a bad day. Simple truth. Yesterday was one of the rare days that Flacco just played like pure dung and was just as much to blame as everyone else, and on days like that, I have no problem saying so.

To your second point, Mod 3 gave a great response to that. If this offense cannot handle a pass first attack, it will be because of our OL, not Flacco.

[flynismo]

[quote name='mocitytexan' timestamp='1350918863' post='1200211']
Don't let your heads down Ravens fans. We felt the same way when GB Packers desimated us. We were clueless as to what happened. We took that whippin as a good lesson, and you guys should have the same aproach. I'm positve we will see you guys in Jan 13.' Hopefully it is without ice and snow and instead in warm insulated Reliant Stadium.
[/quote]

Thanks brotha, but our fears are that we are too wounded physically to bounce back from this. Just too many serious injuries...

But when we play, we prefer the snow, so no, I hope we see each other again at M & T

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350916427' post='1200139']
No, I'm dead serious. Prove me wrong.
[/quote]

We are ranked 2nd dead last in all category in defense. In letting rush allowed, and in passing.

We made a historic worst +400 total yards allowed in all 5 consecutive games (Eagles, Chiefs, Patriots, Cowboys, Texans)

Our ball in position ratio to an opponent is 2:1 for 3 consecutive games in average(KC had ball in position for 34minutes, Cowboys had ball in position for 42 minutes, Texans had ball in position for 47minutes). This basically mean our defense is forced to stay on field.

We basically have the same core of the defense excluding Jarret Johnson & Cory Redding, yet the top 6 defense last year is making historic worst defense records in almost all category.

To think that Dean Pees is has been doing a 'good job' so far

quoting you:
[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350891009' post='1199928']
But here we have Pees, who has shown a great balance of different looks, and people crucify him for actually having a great understanding of the game.
[/quote]
Is absolutely ridiculous.


By the way you asked me the same thing last year to 'prove you wrong' when I said Billy Cundiff was bad last year, and he was.

You also asked me to prove why Ravens should ever draft Vontaze Burfict in 4th/5th round in bc in your opinon his a 'complete trash and a waste of a pick', which it turns out he is just exactly the kind of player we need right now in our defense that couldve been picked up in undrafted agency. But homers like yourself thought kept wailing otherwise.



That enough for you?

[PuRock]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350919155' post='1200216']
To your first point, the answer is simple. It rarely is Flacco's fault when the offense has a bad day. Simple truth. Yesterday was one of the rare days that Flacco just played like pure dung and was just as much to blame as everyone else, and on days like that, I have no problem saying so.

[b]To your second point, Mod 3 gave a great response to that. If this offense cannot handle a pass first attack, it will be because of our OL, not Flacco.[/b]
[/quote]

Yep. And your first point ties to your second point. During passing downs the offensive line looked like Swiss Cheese and Joe was getting pounded left and right. Joe looked good starting the game but the constant punishment made him start seeing ghosts and threw his game way off.

Joe played like crap when he did have time. He needs to make the throws when he does have time. But the constant abuse was troublesome from the get-go.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1350919500' post='1200229']
Yep. And your first point ties to your second point. During passing downs the offensive line looked like Swiss Cheese and Joe was getting pounded left and right. Joe looked good starting the game but the constant punishment made him start seeing ghosts and threw his game way off.

Joe played like crap when he did have time. He needs to make the throws at those time even on days like that. But the constant abuse was troublesome from the get-go.
[/quote]

Same old story for a couple years now. I feel like a broken record when I say that this team is only going to go as far as our OL takes it.

[PuRock]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1350919347' post='1200220']
You also asked me to prove why Ravens should ever draft Vontaze Burfict in 4th/5th round in bc in your opinon his a 'complete trash and a waste of a pick'
[/quote]

I wanted the team to take a flier on Burfict. Too bad we didn't. He's playing great, he is staying out of trouble (for now) and we could've used him. 15 Tackles last night against Pitt? Sign me up.

[PuRock]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350919645' post='1200234']
Same old story for a couple years now. I feel like a broken record when I say that this team is only going to go as far as our OL takes it.
[/quote]

Yep. My favorite saying is 'Fix the O-Line, Fix Everything'. Right now we have a raw rookie at RT, an underwhelming Oher @ LT, and an old (at least he's smart) center who is getting beat physically.

Our O-line is built more for the run than the pass yet this team wants to move to a more passing offense. Just strange.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1350919347' post='1200220']
We are ranked 2nd dead last in all category in defense. In letting rush allowed, and in passing.

We made a historic worst +400 total yards allowed in all 5 consecutive games (Eagles, Chiefs, Patriots, Cowboys, Texans)

Our ball in position ratio to an opponent is 2:1 for 3 consecutive games in average(KC had ball in position for 34minutes, Cowboys had ball in position for 42 minutes, Texans had ball in position for 47minutes). This basically mean our defense is forced to stay on field.

We basically have the same core of the defense excluding Jarret Johnson & Cory Redding, yet the top 6 defense last year is making historic worst defense records in almost all category.

To think that Dean Pees is has been doing a 'good job' so far

quoting you:

Is absolutely ridiculous.


By the way you asked me the same thing last year to 'prove you wrong' when I said Billy Cundiff was bad last year, and he was.

You also asked me to prove why Ravens should ever draft Vontaze Burfict in 4th/5th round in bc in your opinon his a 'complete trash and a waste of a pick', which it turns out he is just exactly the kind of player we need right now in our defense that couldve been picked up in undrafted agency. But homers like yourself thought kept wailing otherwise.



That enough for you?
[/quote]

No, that is not nearly enough for me.

I'm asking you to show me how that is Pees' fault, and not the players sucking.

As for Burfict, a few games is far from proving anything. And, I stand by my comment that he is complete trash and a waste of a pick.

I dont recall this Cundiff conversation.

[rlh445]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1350918452' post='1200194']
I have seen plenty of times where Raven fans such as your self believe Cam is limiting Joe Flacco but I honestly just dont believe it. There's really no clear evidence to prove so and Flacco isn't a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning; He's definately smart but i think ravens fans expect him to audible just about 80 or 90% of the time which is just not gonna happen because he probably isn't or never will be at that level.


Every time Joe Flacco has a bad day it seem like its always cam fault but why can't it be Flacco fault some times. I seen some say flacco look rattled, he was over throwing receivers, and etc but for some reason it's still cam fault but maybe cam does has some wrong doing . Cam probably should had stuck with the run game more but at the same time when you got guys like Boldin, Smith, Jones, Pitta, Dickson, Rice, and etc to use in the passing game I can understand how a coach would feel like their passing game should be unstoppable or atleast consistently go with it.

I personally believe the ravens should get back to being a run first offense because I think the pass first offense is something that's too much for Joe Flacco to handle
[/quote]

Well, let me try to explain it from my point of view since I'm one of those that think Cam is limiting Joe. First, the good. I don't think Joe even plays at the level he's playing at right now if not for Cam Cameron. Say what you want about the man, but if nothing else, he's really good at preparing young quarterbacks. He knows just how to bring a long a guy's game and make him effective at the pro level at really fast speeds, like one year in. The bad. He has no idea how to transition all that hard work into an independent quarterback. He almost makes the QB tethered to him and unable to use quick thinking skills. His play calling is off the wall and most of the time doesn't make sense progressively and sometimes it seems like he just knee jerks his way through games that aren't going their way offensively.

Take yesterday. We start off predictably but successfully. Rice is getting the rock, hitting on all cylinders. Joe's throwing slants to Torrey, screening to Rice..heck, even Dickson caught a nice ball. We stall a bit but kick a field goal. That's cool, we'll come right back out and stick to it. I mean, that's what Cam always does. Our defense has a great first and second series, we come back out. Chuck it. Chuck it. Chuck it. Punt. What?! It's like when something is working, Cam changes it up. When it's NOT working, he sticks with the same freakin' plays until the middle of the third quarter. You know the IHOP menu joke, right? It's not a joke. I mean, I don't think it is. I really do think he's got all the plays mapped out on an IHOP menu he stole from a restaurant where he just scratched out the meals with a penknife and scratched in plays. It's probably why he can't keep a good rythymn in the game.

I like Cam, I think he's done wonders for Joe from a quick growth perspective, but his playcalling has hampered this team from jump street. The problems we're having are the EXACT problems the Chargers had when he was shot calling for them, too. I remember going to the Chargers boards when the Ravens would play them and the entire game threads would be filled with, '*profanity* Camball!!!!!,' posts. We need a lot of changes, and in my opinion OC is one of them. I don't lay every problem on offense at the feet of Cam, but I do think that his handcuffing has gone from a helpful tool to a young player to being a total detriment to Joe and the rest of the offense in general. You just KNOW Ray Rice was super angry that whole game and I don't blame him. I mean, a playaction from our own goal line when we haven't even established the run?! Please.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1350920167' post='1200260']
No, that is not nearly enough for me.

I'm asking you to show me how that is Pees' fault, and not the players sucking.

As for Burfict, a few games is far from proving anything. And, I stand by my comment that he is complete trash and a waste of a pick.

I dont recall this Cundiff conversation.
[/quote]

For Vontaze,he had 7 straight games with at least 7 tackles on every game. I'd say Burfict is a proven commodity. For a 4th/5th/undrafted UFA? That wouldve been worth every penny of it.

As for Billy Cundiff thing, read the post I made about cutting Billy Cundiff that you so tried hard to derail for the whole season last year. Check your posts on that and see if you care to disagree now how better it wouldve been if we had another kicker for that AFCC run.

As for Pees, not just look at the numbers on field. He had he his hand on the playcalls, coaching the (majority )of the young players, and implementing who goes on field. How do you blame the players but not the coach? Its ridiculous.

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1350918452' post='1200194']
I have seen plenty of times where Raven fans such as your self believe Cam is limiting Joe Flacco but I honestly just dont believe it. There's really no clear evidence to prove so and Flacco isn't a Tom Brady or Peyton Manning; He's definately smart but i think ravens fans expect him to audible just about 80 or 90% of the time which is just not gonna happen because he probably isn't or never will be at that level.


Every time Joe Flacco has a bad day it seem like its always cam fault but why can't it be Flacco fault some times. I seen some say flacco look rattled, he was over throwing receivers, and etc but for some reason it's still cam fault but maybe cam does has some wrong doing . Cam probably should had stuck with the run game more but at the same time when you got guys like Boldin, Smith, Jones, Pitta, Dickson, Rice, and etc to use in the passing game I can understand how a coach would feel like their passing game should be unstoppable or atleast consistently go with it.

I personally believe the ravens should get back to being a run first offense because I think the pass first offense is something that's too much for Joe Flacco to handle
[/quote]

I'm not denying the OL is a problem in the passing game. I think we all know we have issues in that area. However, it is the job of the OC to recognize the weakness and design plays that help out in that area. Do you believe that three passing plays in a row is recognizing that weakness? Do you believe that dropping back in our own end zone to pass twice in a row after a first down 6 yd running gain is recognizing the weakness? Do you believe those are the product of logical play calling? Its been said by Harbaugh, the players, Joe and Cam that Joe is limited both by when he can audible and limited in the choices of play he has to choose from to audible out to. Otherwise, if he is seeing anything consistently and has a thought, (this said by Harbaugh and Cam) he can go to Cam and "make suggestions". He is definitely limiting Joe.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1350921404' post='1200311']
For Vontaze,he had 7 straight games with at least 7 tackles on every game. He already has 7 sacks. I'd say Burfict is a proven commodity. For a 4th/5th/undrafted UFA? That wouldve been worth every penny of it.

As for Billy Cundiff thing, read the post I made about cutting Billy Cundiff that you so tried hard to derail for the whole season last year.

As for Pees, just look at the numbers on field. You are blaming the players, but not the coach? How about agreeing that both of them at least had a hand on having a bad defense?
[/quote]

No, I won't agree that Pees has a hand in this. I'll try a different approach to this, to prove my point.

I'll go back to my previous example of our CBs making poor decisions and paying the price.

Jimmy and Cary are consistently getting killled out there when playing man. Why? That is supposed to be their strength. Jimmy has very little experience, so we'll give him a pass for now, but the point still remains that in man coverage, your DC is trusting you to rely on your skill and knowledge to cover your man effectively. Jimmy and Cary are clearly not doing that. And it is magnified by the lack of a pass rush.

So, how do you mask that? You put them in a zone and let the play come to them. And as we all know, Pees has done that quite often as well, and then Pees gets roasted because once again, our pass rush is not there, and recievers are having a field day getting to the holes in the zones.

So the obvious common denominator here is that our pass rush is a major issue.

So now, Pees has to put our young CBs in position to succeed, while fixing the pass rush. How do you do that? He has come with blitzes from all over the place. Safety blitzes, CB blitzes, sending in the house, a couple different zone blitzes that I love the design of (why do you think Ellerbe has three sacks already, and he is a friggin' ILB??), and on and on. Still no pass rush.
And yet, the minute Suggs steps on the field, he is sacking Schaub, swatting passes and creating havoc.

So why is that? Why can Suggs get pressure, but nobody else can? Is it because Pees only knows how to use Suggs correctly, and nobody else? Or is it because Suggs is one of the only guys on the field who is both healthy and talented?

Obviously, it is because Suggs can make plays.

Which leads me back to the CB situation. Why do you think Cary was targeted and not Webb? Once again, because Webb is a playmaker who is good in coverage. If the scheme was an issue, Webb would have been exposed, but obviously that didn't happen. Everyone just targeted Cary and Jimmy, because they are playing like easy targets.

Now that we have a basic idea of why our pass defense is suspect, we can start to realize why we depend so much on dropping guys into zone, to help the CBs out.

And I'll let you fill in the blanks there, because a little post on the forum isn't nearly enough to cover all the problems with our defense. It starts up front, with the poor play from guys like Kemo, Cody, McPhee, the LBs, and trickles down from there.

Yes, I blame the players.