Merged: We're Not Playing to Strengths (Concerns and Options)

[wayne]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1350867880' post='1199379']
You're officially my boy Blue. Don't expect rationality in this respect on a board flooded with people who think Ray Rice is the greatest thing ever and should be getting 50 carries a game. I've said this numerous times myself, very well stated.



I like someone being honest about Rice, so I'm giving you some props. These are points that I made about him during the off-season, and I couldn't agree more.

These arguments about Flacco's status as a QB are irrelevant. If he's not the guy, we're not going to win the Super Bowl, especially not this year. [b]You can't win the big game as a run first offense in today's league because the elite guys will get you.[/b] Lemme hit you with some knowledge: the worst QB to win a Super Bowl in the past 10 years was Brad Johnson, and he was actually quite good under Gruden and was above what I would call a game manager. We've got Eli, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Johnson that won the Super Bowl. [b]You can win games running the ball, but you can't win championships. The league has changed, and these people calling for smash mouth football as a primary offensive strategy need to wake up.[/b]
[/quote]

Ok, so we will keep doing things the way we did it today than with passing the ball 40+ times and running the ball 10 times then? I'm not saying we need to go back to being smashmouth , all I'm saying is we need to run more to open up the pass. We need balance and one thing I can say, we definitely won't being going to the SB with a gameplan that we had today. Stats don't lie and when Ray Rice gets a certain amount of touches, we have a great record.

[wayne]

Jags game last season, Seahawks, Titans...... Eagles game this season and that's just a few games that jumps out at me where we did what we did today as far as stop running the ball and the O stopped,lol.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350857560' post='1198742']
Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.
[/quote]

You must have misinterpreted
1. No one believes that running all of the time is the answer.
2. You sound like Cam here. Wrong! old ball is not dead, there's room for both approaches so why limit the options?
3. And when that doesn't work, they have a top RB and FB to use in both the run and passing game.
4. For years the cry was for better offensive weapons, well... they are here. The rest is easy to figure out.

[sman555555]

lol imagine houston with cushing in there. it would have been a worse day

[Hjulmann]

Man honestly, I believe Ray Rice could be a 1500+ yard RB EVERY SINGLE SEASON, but he's just not being allowed to show this. It sucks, and I'm tired of it - why are we trying to throw on roughly every down vs such a strong defense? Just run the damn ball and stuff it down their throats.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350866925' post='1199323']
You are not going to literally get 5 yards plus a carry when running the ball and IDC what RB it is. Of course, there are scenarios where you have to pass but there are also scenarios where you should be running the ball and establishing the run is very important to our offense success. Watch what I tell ya going forward........ we get away from the run, more than likely our O is going to have a bad day. Also, what I have i have in bold from what you said is what we did today and look where that got us. You saying we should pass more to open up the run which is what we did today and I feel we need to do the opposite. Our O-line is built more for run blocking and having Leach and he barely seeing the field is a disgrace. Its a reason we brought Leach to Baltimore and I doubt if we brought him here only for us to pass the ball 50+ times and run the ball 12 times with him being in on half of those runs.

We not playing Madden fellas, this is the real NFL! Just thinking that you can just drop back and air it out at will is foolish, especially with a patch work O-line.
[/quote]

I agree with this! And yes, get the ball in your play maker's hands often. All successful team do this rather its handing or throwing or both until they can shut it down. Please don't take this to mean on every play.

[Jillester]

Pounding the rock allows for effective clock management which is sorely lacking as proven by the defense being on the field for most of the day.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='Hjulmann' timestamp='1350869709' post='1199452']
Man honestly, I believe Ray Rice could be a 1500+ yard RB EVERY SINGLE SEASON, but he's just not being allowed to show this. It sucks, and I'm tired of it - why are we trying to throw on roughly every down vs such a strong defense? Just run the damn ball and stuff it down their throats.
[/quote]

In earlier years, our personnel always tried to find creative ways to use Ray Rice. Now everytime I see Ray its the same damn play over and over. If anything, his more of a another poor O-lineman than a RB the way his used. Its a damn shame.

Ray is unanimously the top RB in the league. Our passing game is unanimously known to be below average, yet Cam only focuses on trying to find ways to keep being pass happy exclusively. Its obvious Cam is trying to slowly shadow Ray Rice out of the game scheme.

Mix in the game! Stop abandoning the run. Utilize both O-line and Ray to open up the pass game, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. Wasnt that the lesson of last year? Jaguars?Seattle?Jets?KC game this year?

Theres a stat that every time Ray Rice gets less than 25 carries we always lost last year.

Please use what works Cam & Dean! Force the opponent, and let them make the mistake Both of those guys arent smart enough to outwit other NFL personnel.

[omar586]

cam "mr. pass-happy" has to go,he's holding us back,

[ravensfootball52]

there is serious problems on both sides of the ball and i believe a lot of it has to do with the coordinators. the defense needs to switch to a 4-3 when you have a guy like mcphee trying to pass rush from the inside it isnt gonna work he is not jj watt. paul kruger has a worse pass rush than jj. If jimmy smith wants to keep biting on double moves than he can sit on the bench. our starting lineup should be. suggs ngata cody mcphee on d line then mcllain ellerbe upshaw linebackers i really could care less if another lb sneaked in cause none of these guys are really seperating themselves.cbs i really wonder why we let gorrer go he was solid. if carry and jimmy keep getting burned i think we may need to look else where.safetys ed and pollard still. our offense needs to shuffle the line yes i hate to do it cause i think you cant keep shuffling but i dont beleve it was right in first place. LT mckinnie lg osemelle c birk rg yanda rt oher. mckinne has to play lt cause he never played rt.Then to end it all run the ball cam. We are not a shoot out team. second off study your job players it seems there is a breakdown in the secondary all the time. example on kevin walter td was it man for pollard or was cary suppose to have him in zone? seems they dont know

[omar586]

it least with the running game you have a chance, RR was effective running the ball, harewood was inactive which didn't help, i think mostly coaching is terrible

[tctony]

You're wrong.

Ray Rice for his entire career has always rushed 16 times and caught 4 passes. Look at his stats.

Simply "giving Ray Rice the ball" more doesn't mean anything.

[omar586]

[quote name='ravensfootball52' timestamp='1350924747' post='1200389']
there is serious problems on both sides of the ball and i believe a lot of it has to do with the coordinators. the defense needs to switch to a 4-3 when you have a guy like mcphee trying to pass rush from the inside it isnt gonna work he is not jj watt. paul kruger has a worse pass rush than jj. If jimmy smith wants to keep biting on double moves than he can sit on the bench. our starting lineup should be. suggs ngata cody mcphee on d line then mcllain ellerbe upshaw linebackers i really could care less if another lb sneaked in cause none of these guys are really seperating themselves.cbs i really wonder why we let gorrer go he was solid. if carry and jimmy keep getting burned i think we may need to look else where.safetys ed and pollard still. our offense needs to shuffle the line yes i hate to do it cause i think you cant keep shuffling but i dont beleve it was right in first place. LT mckinnie lg osemelle c birk rg yanda rt oher. mckinne has to play lt cause he never played rt.Then to end it all run the ball cam. We are not a shoot out team. second off study your job players it seems there is a breakdown in the secondary all the time. example on kevin walter td was it man for pollard or was cary suppose to have him in zone? seems they dont know
[/quote]
i agree, anything that seems to work, they dont want to use it. like u said the 4-3 D is effective yet we're not use it, although we're hybrid we switch back and forth, secondly the running game have been abandoned in our 2 losses way to early .

[gabefergy]

If the Oline plays like it did against Houston, the best play-calling in the world wont matter.

We have had games thus year, Cinci, NE, Dal, much of the Cleveland game, where passing the ball worked perfectly.

Houston out-played us in every way, plain and simple. They also got away with a ton of holding just like the Philly game...common theme?

[ravensfootball52]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1350926088' post='1200435']
i agree, anything that seems to work, they dont want to use it. like u said the 4-3 D is effective yet we're not use it, although we're hybrid we switch back and forth, secondly the running game have been abandoned in our 2 losses way to early .
[/quote] i jus dont get it if you are allowing 200 yds a game running how does pees not see that he needs another good big body in the middle instead of 2 mlbs. and if you are gonna run a 3-4 you need two good pash rushers we got 1 kruger isnt doing what we thought and he cant set edge. and if you run a 3-4 you better have 2 mlbs that are thumpers and arent afraid to hit a guard only ellerbe with lewis out shows me that.took nate solder a 300+lb tackle right off his feet vs pats. mcclain you got paid where you at? And notice i said good big body up top kemo is doing horrid where is that dt mckinnie we had and where is gorrer if there free agents give them a call.

[nk02442]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350867628' post='1199366']
Not true, the run worked but we went away from it. You need balance man, balance or else you make the defense job a lot more easier.
[/quote]

Still you refuse to listen to logic, reason, and fact. The run was not working. If it was, then we wouldnt have went 3 and out over and over, and no conversions on 3rd down until the second half. You really have no idea what your talking about. Sounds like your repeating the same tired lines as chris colinsworth from madden. Here is a pro-tip.... Madden is not real football.

I guess the reason the packers kicked the piss out of the texans last week was their stellar run game? Stop talking about what you do not know.

[nk02442]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350868383' post='1199399']
Ok, so we will keep doing things the way we did it today than with passing the ball 40+ times and running the ball 10 times then? I'm not saying we need to go back to being smashmouth , all I'm saying is we need to run more to open up the pass. We need balance and one thing I can say, we definitely won't being going to the SB with a gameplan that we had today. Stats don't lie and when Ray Rice gets a certain amount of touches, we have a great record.
[/quote]

Dude just stop. We are not a smashmouth football team anymore. We have a bad defense full of poor technique and tackling players. We have a terrible offensive line that cannot block or pass protect. We have a indecisive QB who is jeckle and hyde. We have a good RB, but he is no AP/Foster. Incase you need things spelled out and in caps here you go:

THE PASS DOES NOT OPEN UP UNLESS YOU ARE RUNNING EFFECTIVLEY. IF THEY ARE STOPPING THE RUN WITH 7 IN THE BOX, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THEY ARE GOING TO DROP 11 IN ALL OF A SUDDEN ON PASSING DOWNS. PLAY ACTION ONLY WORKS WHEN YOU ARE EFFECTIVLEY RUNNING THE BALL, FORCING THE D TO BITE AND PLAY UP.

Now that I think about it, you remind me of Cam. The run doesnt work so lets keep doing it. No wait the run works but we want to go pass happy now. No wait lets run 3 end around in a row and take bombs down the field when a simple conversion will win us the game. You really need to do more reading and watching and less typing.

[nk02442]

[quote name='Jillester' timestamp='1350873538' post='1199609']
Pounding the rock allows for effective clock management which is sorely lacking as proven by the defense being on the field for most of the day.
[/quote]

Yea your right pounding the rock does eat the clock up, IF you are getting 1st downs and able to convert. Running the ball twice, throwing it once and punting generaly would be considered poor clock management. Jerry is calling, he wants his kids to come home.

[nk02442]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1350931648' post='1200572']
If the Oline plays like it did against Houston, the best play-calling in the world wont matter.

We have had games thus year, Cinci, NE, Dal, much of the Cleveland game, where passing the ball worked perfectly.

Houston out-played us in every way, plain and simple. They also got away with a ton of holding just like the Philly game...common theme?
[/quote]
[quote name='ravensfootball52' timestamp='1350932528' post='1200600']
i jus dont get it if you are allowing 200 yds a game running how does pees not see that he needs another good big body in the middle instead of 2 mlbs. and if you are gonna run a 3-4 you need two good pash rushers we got 1 kruger isnt doing what we thought and he cant set edge. and if you run a 3-4 you better have 2 mlbs that are thumpers and arent afraid to hit a guard only ellerbe with lewis out shows me that.took nate solder a 300+lb tackle right off his feet vs pats. mcclain you got paid where you at? And notice i said good big body up top kemo is doing horrid where is that dt mckinnie we had and where is gorrer if there free agents give them a call.
[/quote]

You know after the last two weeks I really started to pay attention to the way we line up. More often then not we had 5 guys on the LOS and 1 or 2 gap hitters. I think thats part of the problem. Our Line is getting blocked and no one is there to make a tackle. That or they tackle like girls. I think they really need to move to a base 4-3 and stick with it. Our linebackers ouside of suggs, seriously need to learn to tackle.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensfootball52' timestamp='1350924747' post='1200389']
there is serious problems on both sides of the ball and i believe a lot of it has to do with the coordinators. the defense needs to switch to a 4-3 when you have a guy like mcphee trying to pass rush from the inside it isnt gonna work he is not jj watt. paul kruger has a worse pass rush than jj. If jimmy smith wants to keep biting on double moves than he can sit on the bench. our starting lineup should be. suggs ngata cody mcphee on d line then mcllain ellerbe upshaw linebackers i really could care less if another lb sneaked in cause none of these guys are really seperating themselves.cbs i really wonder why we let gorrer go he was solid. if carry and jimmy keep getting burned i think we may need to look else where.safetys ed and pollard still. our offense needs to shuffle the line yes i hate to do it cause i think you cant keep shuffling but i dont beleve it was right in first place. LT mckinnie lg osemelle c birk rg yanda rt oher. mckinne has to play lt cause he never played rt.Then to end it all run the ball cam. We are not a shoot out team. second off study your job players it seems there is a breakdown in the secondary all the time. example on kevin walter td was it man for pollard or was cary suppose to have him in zone? seems they dont know
[/quote]

Playing Upshaw as a 4-3 OLB is among the stupidest things I've read today.

There is no reason at all for McKinnie to start at LT. Oher has played well.

[ravensfootball52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1350938751' post='1200827']
Playing Upshaw as a 4-3 OLB is among the stupidest things I've read today.

There is no reason at all for McKinnie to start at LT. Oher has played well.
[/quote]oher has played ok but if you listned to the game even the announcer said oher is at rt cause mckine has never played rt and you dont wanna start that mid season. and as far as upshaw at olb in a 4-3 he could do it may need to loose a lil weight but in the articles i read on this web site they said he is suprisingly good in pass protection i would like to see him around 260. and i would have him pass rush occasionally from that position which he needs to work on.

[nk02442]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1350938751' post='1200827']
Playing Upshaw as a 4-3 OLB is among the stupidest things I've read today.

There is no reason at all for McKinnie to start at LT. Oher has played well.
[/quote]

Except Oher has not played well. I guess that unblocked saftey from the left was not his fault?

[The Raven]

[quote name='ravensfootball52' timestamp='1350940683' post='1200880']
oher has played ok but if you listned to the game even the announcer said oher is at rt cause mckine has never played rt and you dont wanna start that mid season. and as far as upshaw at olb in a 4-3 he could do it may need to loose a lil weight but in the articles i read on this web site they said he is suprisingly good in pass protection i would like to see him around 260. and i would have him pass rush occasionally from that position which he needs to work on.
[/quote]

No. Upshaw's skill set is perfect for a 3-4 OLB or a 4-3 DE. 4-3 OLB is just ridiculous.

Yes, McKinnie was at LT and Oher was at RT. But guess what happened? KO came back in the 3rd quarter. Oher went back to LT and KO went back to RT. Funny how that works...


[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350940866' post='1200885']
Except Oher has not played well. I guess that unblocked saftey from the left was not his fault?
[/quote]

In what universe is the LT responsible for a DB blitz? 99% of the time that's the job of the RB. Everybody and their mother knows that; why don't you?

[gabefergy]

[quote name='ravensfootball52' timestamp='1350940683' post='1200880']
oher has played ok but if you listned to the game even the announcer said oher is at rt cause mckine has never played rt and you dont wanna start that mid season. and as far as upshaw at olb in a 4-3 he could do it may need to loose a lil weight but in the articles i read on this web site they said he is suprisingly good in pass protection i would like to see him around 260. and i would have him pass rush occasionally from that position which he needs to work on.
[/quote]
Upshaw is not a 4-3 OLB. Kruger would be better there as a SAM, but really we dont have the LBers to play a 4-3. Not enough speed at the position.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350940866' post='1200885']


Except Oher has not played well. I guess that unblocked saftey from the left was not his fault?
[/quote]

I think that play was on Joe. He didnt read the blitz properly...Texans brought more players than we could block and Joe didnt make the proper read.

[Gordo52]

Agreed. Run that damn ball, and use PA. Start throwing when we can't run it anymore.

[allballs]

[quote name='flygunit88' timestamp='1350845078' post='1197623']
ravens done...we should be more worried that its just halftime....still two more quarters of this madness to watch im betting they the nfl take it off the air and put something more competitive on
[/quote]

i told yall 46-9
+/- 3... listen to me and you will not be shocked

[allballs]

[quote name='omar586' timestamp='1350926088' post='1200435']
i agree, anything that seems to work, they dont want to use it. like u said the 4-3 D is effective yet we're not use it, although we're hybrid we switch back and forth, secondly the running game have been abandoned in our 2 losses way to early .
[/quote]

somebody list our strength
top 5, just 5...

[SecretAgentMan]

Cam has it all wrong. Just balance everything out . Havoc joe half rice.

[The Raven]

[quote name='allballs' timestamp='1350943071' post='1200926']
i told yall 46-9
+/- 3... listen to me and you will not be shocked
[/quote]

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while.