Merged: We're Not Playing to Strengths (Concerns and Options)

[wayne]

Flacco and the passing game feeds off the running game for the millionth time. Look at our offense like the Texans offense for example. Their whole offense ( Andre Johnson included ) thrives off of the running game and when that goes, so goes the offense. Dating back to just last season, almost every game where we went one dimensional, the offense has pretty much been shut down. Seattle, Jags, Titans......... Flacco is not Tom Brady or Manning and our strength doesn't lie in those styles of offense with the personnel we have anyway. We have a Top 5 RB with the #1 FB in the game with a bunch of maulers blocking up front, RUN THE DAMN BALL MORE!

[wayne]

Flacco and the passing game feeds off the running game for the millionth time. Look at our offense like the Texans offense for example. Their whole offense ( Andre Johnson included ) thrives off of the running game and when that goes, so goes the offense. Dating back to just last season, almost every game where we went one dimensional, the offense has pretty much been shut down. Seattle, Jags, Titans......... Flacco is not Tom Brady or Manning and our strength doesn't lie in those styles of offense with the personnel we have anyway. We have a Top 5 RB with the #1 FB in the game with a bunch of maulers blocking up front, RUN THE DAMN BALL MORE!

[flygunit88]

ravens done...we should be more worried that its just halftime....still two more quarters of this madness to watch im betting they the nfl take it off the air and put something more competitive on

[Guest Moderator 6]

Please keep it in the game thread: [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/49119-week-7-baltimore-ravens-at-houston-texans/"]http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/49119-week-7-baltimore-ravens-at-houston-texans/[/url]

[wayne]

Stop trying to promote Flacco like he's Brady or Manning and stick with the run with the PA. Ray Rice had like 6 carries at half time and ended the game with maybe 12 carries and he averaged over like 4 to 5 yards a carry doing it so you can't say they were stuffing us in the backfield everytime we ran the ball. I just knew we were going to get away from the run and things were going to get hard to follow with going one dimensional against one of the best defenses in the league.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

I agree our strength is ball control and the running game. We need more time with the offense on the field and the defense off of the field. Ray Rice is our game changer and he needs the ball. Once we get behind we are not so good. I love the fact that Suggs is back but we need the defense off of the field and Rice on the field and the ball in his hand.

[ratedr]

Everyone can see this but Cam. It's very, very annoying.

[rlh445]

I just don't know what we're thinking. We come out and look good for the first series and then do a complete 180. WHY?! I'd love to do an in depth interview with Cam and see what he says.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350844768' post='1197575']
[u][b]Flacco and the passing game feeds off the running game for the millionth time[/b][/u]. Look at our offense like the Texans offense for example. Their whole offense ( Andre Johnson included ) thrives off of the running game and when that goes, so goes the offense. Dating back to just last season, almost every game where we went one dimensional, the offense has pretty much been shut down. Seattle, Jags, Titans......... [u][b]Flacco is not Tom Brady or Manning [/b][/u]and our strength doesn't lie in those styles of offense with the personnel we have anyway. [u][b]We have a Top 5 RB with the #1 FB in the game with a bunch of maulers blocking up front, RUN THE DAMN BALL MORE![/b][/u]
[/quote]

my sentiments exactly Wayne!

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350851959' post='1198392']
Stop trying to promote Flacco like he's Brady or Manning and [u][b]stick with the run with the PA[/b][/u]. Ray Rice had like 6 carries at half time and ended the game with maybe 12 carries and he averaged over like 4 to 5 yards a carry doing it so you can't say they were stuffing us in the backfield everytime we ran the ball. [u][b]I just knew we were going to get away from the run[/b][/u] and things were going to get hard to follow with going one dimensional against one of the best defenses in the league.
[/quote]

stick to the run and PA...i've been saying this in here for the past few years!

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1350852474' post='1198438']
[u][b]I[b] a[/b]gree our strength is ball control and the running game[/b][/u]. W[u][b]e need more time with the offense on the field and the defense off of the field. Ray Rice is our game changer and he needs the ball[/b][/u]. [u][b]Once we get behind we are not so good[/b][/u]. I love the fact that Suggs is back but we need the defense off of the field and Rice on the field and the ball in his hand.
[/quote]

smash mouth baby! it needs to return to Baltimore!

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350853804' post='1198546']
[u][b]Everyone can see this but Cam[/b][/u]. It's very, very annoying.
[/quote]

and that...is amazing! with all of his piss-poor play calling not working...this cat still has blinders on? and watch his presser. he will throw the players under the bus as usual. it's a shame!

~Mili

[wayne]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1350854093' post='1198561']
I just don't know what we're thinking. We come out and look good for the first series and then do a complete 180. WHY?! I'd love to do an in depth interview with Cam and see what he says.
[/quote]

A complete 180,lol. I think Cam out coaches himself or he over thinks things in a sense that if we having that much success running the ball, surely the opposition will put more emphasis on stopping the run so before they do that, he switches to passing more always trying to stay a step ahead of the opposition which back fires b/c the opposition doesn't have an answer for the run. Let them start to consistently stop it ( they pretty much have to start selling out to stop our run IMO ) before going away from something almost completely.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350854954' post='1198616']
A complete 180,lol. I think Cam out coaches himself or he over thinks things in a sense that if we having that much success running the ball, surely the opposition will put more emphasis on stopping the run so before they do that, he switches to passing more always trying to stay a step ahead of the opposition which back fires b/c the opposition doesn't have an answer for the run. [u][b]Let them start to consistently stop it ( they pretty much have to start selling out to stop our run IMO ) before going away from something almost completely.[/b][/u]
[/quote]

great point Wayne.

now i know this is real football that we are speaking of here but i feel a madden analogy coming on. lol! this is what i do in madden with the Ravens. i pound and pound and pound the rock (from different formations) UNTIL my opponent shows me they can consistently stop the rushing attack and then i switch up and throw in a few passes, screens, curls and slants etc. i will also take an occasional deep shot down the field to Torrey and Jacoby just to give my opponent something else to worry about and focus on and then....BAM....i go back to run! LOL!!!

~Mili

[wayne]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1350855267' post='1198636']
great point Wayne.

now i know this is real football that we are speaking of here but i feel a madden analogy coming on. lol! this is what i do in madden with the Ravens. i pound and pound and pound the rock (from different formations) UNTIL my opponent shows me they can consistently stop the rushing attack and then i switch up and throw in a few passes, screens, curls and slants etc. i will also take an occasional deep shot down the field to Torrey and Jacoby just to give my opponent something else to worry about and focus and then....BAM....i go back to run! LOL!!!

~Mili
[/quote]

LOL, it is a Madden analogy but it actually works in the NFL like this too. Texans amongst many teams do this. I see no reason why we can't have a similar scheme that the Texans has that always keep a defense off balance. With our play calling, it puts too much pressure on our guys to win their one on ones b/c the opposition knows what is coming. Look how the Texans offense looked against us when they went away from the run for the little stretch that they did........ they didn't look asggid as they do with the running game with the threat of the PA being there.

[nk02442]

Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.

[sticks999]

Cam is the problem. I haven't wanted him here for years. We have a good game and all is well with Cam, nope!! Look what other teams can do to get the passing attack going. We suck at it, bye bye Cam!

[Kwothdaraven]

When has cam ever played to our strengths? When has he ever used his personel appropiately? Hes using anquan boldin like hes calvin johnson and ray rice likea hes percy harvin who gets 5 carries a game

[Bravens292]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350857560' post='1198742']
Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.
[/quote]

Yeah, it doesn't matter what we do because we are too predicatable. if we are able to keep defenses honest, maybe but like you said we fool nobody. Another point, most teams try to scheme against our running game anyhow so it just puts the pressure back on the passing game. We tried running a lot in the 1st quarter of the patriots game and we couldn't get a 1st down so i don't think it matters run/pass.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350857560' post='1198742']
Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.
[/quote]

Right on all counts.

Its crazy. I am as big of a Rice fan as the next guy but when he get two carries and busts out a whopping three yards and we have a third and seven. Duh. Do we run it again ? no now we have to pass.
I can see third and three or third and two, but more than a few times we are looking at third and long.
Yes Rice does bust a big run from time to time, but not consisntantly enough. Not with the current O-line.

With Smith, Bollden, Jones, Pitta and Dickson at our disposal, we SHOULD be passing more to loosen up the line for Rice to run more.

[Crabcakes&Football]

I thought our strength was Cam's play calling?

[wayne]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350857560' post='1198742']
Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

[color=#ff0000]Oh yea,lol....... really?[/color]

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

[color=#ff0000]Who said anything about getting 5 yards a carry? I remember when we played the Jags last season and they ran MJD like 20+ times and his average was below 4 yards a carry I believe. It's not just about running the ball but running the ball helps you out in so many ways and when facing good pass rushers, barely running the ball will get you how we got done today. Also, if the O-lineman suck at run blocking, most chances they will really suck at pass blocking so thats food for thought for ya right there. You have to keep balance ( QBs like Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees are the exception and even still, they need a little balance to help the O click in harmony )[/color]
2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

[color=#ff0000]Old football is dead, really? Look at the teams that won this week and look at the stats of their RBs. Just b/c a lot of teams is airing it out these days doesn't mean running the football is dead. You have to be able to run the ball too, especially with your bad weather days just around the corner. This notion that smashmouth football is dead is silly. Look at how the Ravens have been getting pounded and many would argue that KC and the Cowboys victories could have vary well been losses.[/color]

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

[color=#ff0000]If the Texans get exploited through the air, with how unbalance the pass to run ratio is, we should have had 400 yards through the air but did that happen?[/color]

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.

[color=#ff0000]Everyone feel their offense scheme ( Coordinator ) is stale and bad. Cowboys, Steelers, Pats....... list goes on and on of fans that feel this way about their own teams offensive scheme. Also, Ray Rice averaged 4.8 yards a carry and the PA would have worked if we ran the ball more which wasn't the case.[/color]
[/quote]

I repeat, if you go back to games we had last season, when we abandoned the run, the offense becomes non existent for us. It's even an article on the home page that's talking about it. Common sense tells you to put it in the hands of your best playmaker on offense as many times as you can and to give Ray Rice only 12 total carries when he was averaging 4.8 yards a carry is disrespect to him and the organization and Leach who was brought in to help pave the way for Rice.

http://www.baltimoreravens.com/news/article-1/The-Breakdown-Ravens%E2%80%99-Reality-Alarming-Despite-5-2-Record/365ca977-b3f1-494f-8be3-b95e04d423b9

[wayne]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1350865536' post='1199248']
Right on all counts.

Its crazy. I am as big of a Rice fan as the next guy but when he get two carries and busts out a whopping three yards and we have a third and seven. Duh. Do we run it again ? no now we have to pass.
I can see third and three or third and two, but more than a few times we are looking at third and long.
Yes Rice does bust a big run from time to time, but not consisntantly enough. Not with the current O-line.

[b]With Smith, Bollden, Jones, Pitta and Dickson at our disposal, we SHOULD be passing more to loosen up the line for Rice to run more[/b].
[/quote]

You are not going to literally get 5 yards plus a carry when running the ball and IDC what RB it is. Of course, there are scenarios where you have to pass but there are also scenarios where you should be running the ball and establishing the run is very important to our offense success. Watch what I tell ya going forward........ we get away from the run, more than likely our O is going to have a bad day. Also, what I have i have in bold from what you said is what we did today and look where that got us. You saying we should pass more to open up the run which is what we did today and I feel we need to do the opposite. Our O-line is built more for run blocking and having Leach and he barely seeing the field is a disgrace. Its a reason we brought Leach to Baltimore and I doubt if we brought him here only for us to pass the ball 50+ times and run the ball 12 times with him being in on half of those runs.

We not playing Madden fellas, this is the real NFL! Just thinking that you can just drop back and air it out at will is foolish, especially with a patch work O-line.

[wayne]

Flacco is a good QB but not when we try to use him like he's someone else. If you expect him to be Tom Brady , then no, he won't be a good QB using him that way but if we use him in more of a Matt Schaub type of way, then yes, he would be better than just a good QB. Cam is trying to use him the wrong way like he's Phillip Rivers or Brees or something and I don't feel that that's Flacco strong suit.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350844768' post='1197575']
Flacco and the passing game feeds off the running game for the millionth time. Look at our offense like the Texans offense for example. Their whole offense ( Andre Johnson included ) thrives off of the running game and when that goes, so goes the offense. Dating back to just last season, almost every game where we went one dimensional, the offense has pretty much been shut down. Seattle, Jags, Titans......... Flacco is not Tom Brady or Manning and our strength doesn't lie in those styles of offense with the personnel we have anyway. We have a Top 5 RB with the #1 FB in the game with a bunch of maulers blocking up front, RUN THE DAMN BALL MORE!
[/quote]

I agree! On the first drive that ended in a field goal they ran to get down field. They stalled when they changed what got them there. Even if they don't run get the ball to Rice in the open field where he is dangerous.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1350866925' post='1199323']
You are not going to literally get 5 yards plus a carry when running the ball and IDC what RB it is. Of course, there are scenarios where you have to pass but there are also scenarios where you should be running the ball and establishing the run is very important to our offense success. Watch what I tell ya going forward........ we get away from the run, more than likely our O is going to have a bad day. Also, what I have i have in bold from what you said is what we did today and look where that got us. You saying we should pass more to open up the run which is what we did today and I feel we need to do the opposite. Our O-line is built more for run blocking and having Leach and he barely seeing the field is a disgrace. Its a reason we brought Leach to Baltimore and I doubt if we brought him here only for us to pass the ball 50+ times and run the ball 12 times with him being in on half of those runs.

We not playing Madden fellas, this is the real NFL! Just thinking that you can just drop back and air it out at will is foolish, especially with a patch work O-line.
[/quote]

I will be honest with you I have never played Madden a day in my life. So,,,,,, well I dont know what that means.

My point simply was, SOMETIMES the run is inefective. For what ever reason. Yes I realise that does not mean completely abandon the run, unless the passing is overwelmingy effective ( which was not the case today ).
To put it to an extreme not based in reality, if every pass was a ten yard completion, give Ray Rice a glass of lemonade and tell him to enjoy his afternoon. If every run was ten yards dont run exclusivly but by all means favor the run. IF ITS WORKING.
My point simply if it doesnt work, do something that does, if it works, dont fix it.
Today, nothing worked.

[Tank 92]

The Houston D took away the dump offs to ray and our O line got owned. Hard to make any judgement on play calling today. We just got out played.

[wayne]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1350867428' post='1199356']
I will be honest with you I have never played Madden a day in my life. So,,,,,, well I dont know what that means.

My point simply was, SOMETIMES the run is inefective. For what ever reason. Yes I realise that does not mean completely abandon the run, unless the passing is overwelmingy effective ( which was not the case today ).
To put it to an extreme not based in reality, if every pass was a ten yard completion, give Ray Rice a glass of lemonade and tell him to enjoy his afternoon. If every run was ten yards dont run exclusivly but by all means favor the run. IF ITS WORKING.
My point simply if it doesnt work, do something that does, if it works, dont fix it.
Today, nothing worked.
[/quote]
[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1350867428' post='1199356']
I will be honest with you I have never played Madden a day in my life. So,,,,,, well I dont know what that means.

My point simply was, SOMETIMES the run is inefective. For what ever reason. Yes I realise that does not mean completely abandon the run, unless the passing is overwelmingy effective ( which was not the case today ).
To put it to an extreme not based in reality, if every pass was a ten yard completion, give Ray Rice a glass of lemonade and tell him to enjoy his afternoon. If every run was ten yards dont run exclusivly but by all means favor the run. IF ITS WORKING.
My point simply if it doesnt work, do something that does, if it works, dont fix it.
[b]Today, nothing worked.[/b]
[/quote]

Not true, the run worked but we went away from it. You need balance man, balance or else you make the defense job a lot more easier.

[K-Dog]

I saw more than a few times Rice made it to the line and not much else.
Either way, arguing the fact is beside the point.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1350857560' post='1198742']
Thes kinds of threads show the difference between ravens fans and football fans:

1. The run is not always going to work. I dont undertsand why its difficult for many of you to grasp, but you cannot just run at will and get 5 yards a cary. If you could, than no team would ever throw the ball. Sometimes the run does not work, Some times your OL sucks. Sometimes the defense you are playing is stout against the run and doesnt give up much.

2. You have to be able to throw to win. Old football is dead. You have to be able to win on your QB's arm. That is just the reality of the game now.

3. Some teams get exploited in the pass. The Texans are one of them. We should have been moving the ball in the air and getting mis matches with our TE's and WR's all day. Unforutonatley either due to sucky players or sucky coaching, they cant get seperation, get off routes, and make catches.

4. PA only works when you are gashing them in the Run. Ravens uncreative play calling and reptitive nature fools no one. We are the most pathetic offense scheme wise in the NFL. We would be better off having Joe call plays at the line, thats how bad it is.
[/quote]

You're officially my boy Blue. Don't expect rationality in this respect on a board flooded with people who think Ray Rice is the greatest thing ever and should be getting 50 carries a game. I've said this numerous times myself, very well stated.

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1350865536' post='1199248']
Right on all counts.

Its crazy. [b]I am as big of a Rice fan as the next guy but when he get two carries and busts out a whopping three yards and we have a third and seven.[/b] Duh. Do we run it again ? no now we have to pass.
I can see third and three or third and two, but more than a few times we are looking at third and long.
[b]Yes Rice does bust a big run from time to time, but not consisntantly enough. Not with the current O-line.[/b]

With Smith, Bollden, Jones, Pitta and Dickson at our disposal, we SHOULD be passing more to loosen up the line for Rice to run more.
[/quote]

I like someone being honest about Rice, so I'm giving you some props. These are points that I made about him during the off-season, and I couldn't agree more.

These arguments about Flacco's status as a QB are irrelevant. If he's not the guy, we're not going to win the Super Bowl, especially not this year. You can't win the big game as a run first offense in today's league because the elite guys will get you. Lemme hit you with some knowledge: the worst QB to win a Super Bowl in the past 10 years was Brad Johnson, and he was actually quite good under Gruden and was above what I would call a game manager. We've got Eli, Rodgers, Brees, Roethlisberger, Eli, Peyton, Roethlisberger, Brady, Brady, Johnson that won the Super Bowl. You can win games running the ball, but you can't win championships. The league has changed, and these people calling for smash mouth football as a primary offensive strategy need to wake up.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='nextgen_RavensFan' timestamp='1350852474' post='1198438']
I agree our strength is ball control and the running game. We need more time with the offense on the field and the defense off of the field. Ray Rice is our game changer and he needs the ball. Once we get behind we are not so good. I love the fact that Suggs is back but we need the defense off of the field and Rice on the field and the ball in his hand.
[/quote]

So why is that such a difficult concept for the coaches and the team to grasp? Something is not on the up and up. I cannot believe the they cannot see it.

The offense has weapons this year and still under performs, so now who is to blame?

[wayne]

[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1350867793' post='1199373']
I saw more than a few times Rice made it to the line and not much else.
Either way, arguing the fact is beside the point.
[/quote]

Thats gonna happen to any RB though, that's inevitable. I'm sure Chris Johnson , Adrian Peterson made it to the LOS and didn't get too much of anything else. Even Tate and Foster got stopped for a 1-3 yard gain against us but did that stop them from establishing the run to set up the PA? Establishing the run doesn't necessarily mean that you kill it every time the ball is handed off to you either. You can average under 4 yards a carry and establish the run.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='ratedr' timestamp='1350853804' post='1198546']
Everyone can see this but Cam. It's very, very annoying.
[/quote]

He sees but just refuses to adapt. Can't wait to hear his reasoning. Bet he drifts off topic if questioned.