Webb Update: Out For Season with ACL Tear

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350341253' post='1191726']
Because right now he is arguably our best CB. As sad as it sounds we don't know how Webb will recover after this. I believe he'll bounce back and be his old self, but when will that be? Fortuantly we got good depth at CB, but we have so many offseason needs regarding our OL and defensive front 7, I don't want to go into next year with us just relying on Webb and Jimmy. Cary will be best option for us. Knows defense, has expierence, not that costly (We think). Cary hasn't been lighting it up this season, and if he still won't take a 3 year 15 he's out of his mind. I wouldn't want us giving that to him neither.
[/quote]

How is at least $5 million per season not that costly with regards to his on-field performance? Given the situation with Webb and his over-inflated INT numbers, it'd be strange to assume that he'd ask for less than his initial amount instead of more. He may have knowledge of the defensive scheme, but how relevant is it if he continues to struggle with the position itself, like he has thus far? We'll still have Chykie Brown and Corey Graham on the payroll, who've shown some promise, as well as Asa Jackson. Even so, I'm not at all suggesting that we forgo addressing the position at all. But who's to say that there won't be a better CB available via FA, especially if we already intend to spend a pretty penny on the position? Here's the breakdown on Mr. Cary E. Williams. He's allowed the second most yards in the NFL with 434, and the most receptions with 33. Even with the 3 INTs, he still allows an opposing QB rating of 95.7. Outside of what we've seen for ourselves, with regards to PFF, he currently holds the 7th worst coverage grade among any CB with over 50% of defensive snaps. While there's no guarantee that a potential replacement would surpass his production, the bar he has set isn't exactly unreachable. Signing him now would be nothing short of a pure panic move, and I wouldn't want our FO to operate in this manner.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350341253' post='1191726']
Because right now he is arguably our best CB. As sad as it sounds we don't know how Webb will recover after this. I believe he'll bounce back and be his old self, but when will that be? Fortuantly we got good depth at CB, but we have so many offseason needs regarding our OL and defensive front 7, I don't want to go into next year with us just relying on Webb and Jimmy. Cary will be best option for us. Knows defense, has expierence, not that costly (We think). Cary hasn't been lighting it up this season, and if he still won't take a 3 year 15 he's out of his mind. I wouldn't want us giving that to him neither.
[/quote]

How is at least $5 million per season not that costly with regards to his on-field performance? Given the situation with Webb and his over-inflated INT numbers, it'd be strange to assume that he'd ask for less than his initial amount instead of more. He may have knowledge of the defensive scheme, but how relevant is it if he continues to struggle with the position itself, like he has thus far? We'll still have Chykie Brown and Corey Graham on the payroll, who've shown some promise, as well as Asa Jackson. Even so, I'm not at all suggesting that we forgo addressing the position at all. But who's to say that there won't be a better CB available via FA, especially if we already intend to spend a pretty penny on the position? And if we do intend to resign him, why would his price tag rise after the season is over with? Here's the breakdown on Mr. Cary E. Williams. He's allowed the second most yards in the NFL with 434, and the most receptions with 33. Even with the 3 INTs, he still allows an opposing QB rating of 95.7. Outside of what we've seen for ourselves, with regards to PFF, he currently holds the 7th worst coverage grade among any CB with over 50% of defensive snaps. While there's no guarantee that a potential replacement would surpass his production, the bar he has set isn't exactly unreachable. Signing him now would be nothing short of a pure panic move, and I wouldn't want our FO to operate in this manner.

[K-Dog]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1350265986' post='1190228']


since when does total tackles show how good of a tackler you are? also a corner shouldn't get tops in tackles anyway if you're always in coverage especially for webb whose never thrown at.
[/quote]

context.
I was correcting some one.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1350343371' post='1191781']
How is at least $5 million per season not that costly with regards to his on-field performance? Given the situation with Webb and his over-inflated INT numbers, it'd be strange to assume that he'd ask for less than his initial amount instead of more. He may have knowledge of the defensive scheme, but how relevant is it if he continues to struggle with the position itself, like he has thus far? We'll still have Chykie Brown and Corey Graham on the payroll, who've shown some promise, as well as Asa Jackson. Even so, I'm not at all suggesting that we forgo addressing the position at all. But who's to say that there won't be a better CB available via FA, especially if we already intend to spend a pretty penny on the position? And if we do intend to resign him, why would his price tag rise after the season is over with? Here's the breakdown on Mr. Cary E. Williams. He's allowed the second most yards in the NFL with 434, and the most receptions with 33. Even with the 3 INTs, he still allows an opposing QB rating of 95.7. Outside of what we've seen for ourselves, with regards to PFF, he currently holds the 7th worst coverage grade among any CB with over 50% of defensive snaps. While there's no guarantee that a potential replacement would surpass his production, the bar he has set isn't exactly unreachable. Signing him now would be nothing short of a pure panic move, and I wouldn't want our FO to operate in this manner.
[/quote]
I never said I wanted to see him get paid that. He's not worth it. I said he'd be out his mind if he turnt that down again though. You put his stats up, I think he would negotiate to something less than the orginal offer & If he doesn't he's out of his mind. Unless he thinks he can get more than it's whatever. I think resigning Cary sometime this season (shouldn't of said now) would be smart because we can go into the offseason not worried about spending money on a CB. Maybe I still believe he will get it together (probably more so hope) but I still view him as the best available CB for [i]us[/i] this offseason. He won't, or should I say, [i]shouldn't[/i] demand as much money as the other good CB's out there. I just want the security of having 3 good CBs going into next year. (Don't get me wrong, there are better CB's in FA than Cary but they'll cost more, and alot are older. All of our other CB's are unproven as of now, but I'm sure since Ozzie picked them, they have to be good).
Even though Cary has sucked this year, I still believe in the upside he might have. He should be paid as a number 3 CB, very low #2. The majority of our money this offseason should go towards OL & DF7. I shouldn't have said sign him now, and I agree I don't want our FO panicking. But that doesn't stop me from panicking. Luckily none of us make the decisions. Also not sure if this is true or not but if we sign him up we would have more cap space to play around with.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350348003' post='1191932']
I never said I wanted to see him get paid that. He's not worth it. I said he'd be out his mind if he turnt that down again though. You put his stats up, I think he would negotiate to something less than the orginal offer & If he doesn't he's out of his mind. Unless he thinks he can get more than it's whatever. I think resigning Cary sometime this season (shouldn't of said now) would be smart because we can go into the offseason not worried about spending money on a CB. Maybe I still believe he will get it together (probably more so hope) but I still view him as the best available CB for [i]us[/i] this offseason. He won't, or should I say, [i]shouldn't[/i] demand as much money as the other good CB's out there. I just want the security of having 3 good CBs going into next year. (Don't get me wrong, there are better CB's in FA than Cary but they'll cost more, and alot are older. All of our other CB's are unproven as of now, but I'm sure since Ozzie picked them, they have to be good).
Even though Cary has sucked this year, I still believe in the upside he might have. He should be paid as a number 3 CB, very low #2. The majority of our money this offseason should go towards OL & DF7. I shouldn't have said sign him now, and I agree I don't want our FO panicking. But that doesn't stop me from panicking. Luckily none of us make the decisions. Also not sure if this is true or not but if we sign him up we would have more cap space to play around with.
[/quote]

I don't see his ceiling being be much higher, if at all. It's not as if this is his first season as a starter. His stats weren't exactly impressive last year, when he gave up the 9th most yards of any CB and a QB rating of 88.4. And yet he still managed to turn down the offer, even after an injury riddled offseason. I am in complete agreement with you that he was out of his mind to reject such a generous proposition, but there's nothing at this moment that would indicate that he'd personally accept a significantly lesser amount. He isn't short on (over)confidence, and probably wouldn't be in negotiations with John Harbaugh publicly praising his performance against Dallas, one that was undeserved, in my opinion. There's no way that this assessment can be made until we're actually able to see who will be available when the time comes. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the age of his potential competition, since Williams will be turning 28 before the end of the year. And I do appreciate that he knows our scheme, but when a CB consistently allows receptions by failing to turn around and play the ball, the aforementioned knowledge doesn't matter as much. I'd much rather have a player who's still learning the scheme, but is able to play the position properly. In an ideal world, if he would accept your proposed salary, there'd be no problem. But realistically speaking, I just don't see him dipping under his unreasonable expectations. Regarding the last part, given that he's on a one year, $1.9 million tender, we would most certainly have less money to spend.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350348003' post='1191932']
I never said I wanted to see him get paid that. He's not worth it. I said he'd be out his mind if he turnt that down again though. You put his stats up, I think he would negotiate to something less than the orginal offer & If he doesn't he's out of his mind. Unless he thinks he can get more than it's whatever. I think resigning Cary sometime this season (shouldn't of said now) would be smart because we can go into the offseason not worried about spending money on a CB. Maybe I still believe he will get it together (probably more so hope) but I still view him as the best available CB for [i]us[/i] this offseason. He won't, or should I say, [i]shouldn't[/i] demand as much money as the other good CB's out there. I just want the security of having 3 good CBs going into next year. (Don't get me wrong, there are better CB's in FA than Cary but they'll cost more, and alot are older. All of our other CB's are unproven as of now, but I'm sure since Ozzie picked them, they have to be good).
Even though Cary has sucked this year, I still believe in the upside he might have. He should be paid as a number 3 CB, very low #2. The majority of our money this offseason should go towards OL & DF7. I shouldn't have said sign him now, and I agree I don't want our FO panicking. But that doesn't stop me from panicking. Luckily none of us make the decisions. Also not sure if this is true or not but if we sign him up we would have more cap space to play around with.
[/quote]

I don't see his ceiling being much higher, if at all. It's not as if this is his first season as a starter. His stats weren't exactly impressive last year, when he gave up the 9th most yards of any CB and a QB rating of 88.4. And yet he still managed to turn down the offer, even after an injury riddled offseason. I am in complete agreement with you that he was out of his mind to reject such a generous proposition, but there's nothing at this moment that would indicate that he'd personally accept a significantly lesser amount. He isn't short on (over)confidence, and probably wouldn't be in negotiations with John Harbaugh publicly praising his performance against Dallas, one that was undeserved, in my opinion. There's no way that this assessment can be made until we're actually able to see who will be available when the time comes. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the age of his potential competition, since Williams will be turning 28 before the end of the year. And I do appreciate that he knows our scheme, but when a CB consistently allows receptions by failing to turn around and play the ball, the aforementioned knowledge doesn't matter as much. I'd much rather have a player who's still learning the scheme, but is able to play the position properly. In an ideal world, if he would accept your proposed salary, there'd be no problem. But realistically speaking, I just don't see him dipping under his unreasonable expectations. Regarding the last part, given that he's on a one year, $1.9 million tender, we would most certainly have less money to spend.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1350350396' post='1192007']
I don't see his ceiling being much higher, if at all. It's not as if this is his first season as a starter. His stats weren't exactly impressive last year, when he gave up the 9th most yards of any CB and a QB rating of 88.4. And yet he still managed to turn down the offer, even after an injury riddled offseason. I am in complete agreement with you that he was out of his mind to reject such a generous proposition, but there's nothing at this moment that would indicate that he'd personally accept a significantly lesser amount. He isn't short on (over)confidence, and probably wouldn't be in negotiations with John Harbaugh publicly praising his performance against Dallas, one that was undeserved, in my opinion. There's no way that this assessment can be made until we're actually able to see who will be available when the time comes. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the age of his potential competition, since Williams will be turning 28 before the end of the year. And I do appreciate that he knows our scheme, but when a CB consistently allows receptions by failing to turn around and play the ball, the aforementioned knowledge doesn't matter as much. I'd much rather have a player who's still learning the scheme, but is able to play the position properly. In an ideal world, if he would accept your proposed salary, there'd be no problem. But realistically speaking, I just don't see him dipping under his unreasonable expectations. Regarding the last part, given that he's on a one year, $1.9 million tender, we would most certainly have less money to spend.
[/quote]
I agree with alot that your saying. And your right, he probably would ask for alot. Whatever happens we got the best doing it for us. He may have played a lot so far, but I still feel he can get better with a little bit more expierence. The rest of our defense isn't really helping him out any. When we can't rush the passer, and your opposite Webb, your not going to look so good. He does need to get better at playing the ball, theres no question about that, and it really concerns me that he hasn't showed improvement in that area yet in his career, but with the way our O-line,D-line,potential FA/retirements,cap space, and question marks we face after this season, I still would like to have Cary playing here next season. (at the right price of course).

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350351021' post='1192026']
I agree with alot that your saying. And your right, he probably would ask for alot. Whatever happens we got the best doing it for us. He may have played a lot so far, but I still feel he can get better with a little bit more expierence. The rest of our defense isn't really helping him out any. When we can't rush the passer, and your opposite Webb, your not going to look so good. He does need to get better at playing the ball, theres no question about that, and it really concerns me that he hasn't showed improvement in that area yet in his career, but with the way our O-line,D-line,potential FA/retirements,cap space, and question marks we face after this season, I still would like to have Cary playing here next season. (at the right price of course).
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more about the pass rush, or the lack thereof. And those other areas definitely need our concern. I also do hope that he improves, but I'm just skeptical at the moment. I'm sure we'll both be anxious to see how it all works out.

[GrimCoconut]

I believe Webb will recover from this. He did it once and I think he can do it again. Sometimes, some people, adversity makes you stronger. I believe Webb is one of those kind of people. He will grow from this and emerge victorious. He will be OK. He's been through it before and I believe he can do it again.

It's a good thing, actually. Now we can see what Smith really has. It forces us to play our younger guys, of whom I really like. I like Smith, Brown, and Jackson a lot. I'm happy they may actually see playing time now. The good that comes from this is you can LET Williams walk next year if Brown outplays him this year, which could happen.

[J-man]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1350338073' post='1191655']
I think we should resign Cary now. Not as much as we sent him earlier, but we have to do something.
[/quote]
I disagree. Leaving him unsigned will make him play harder, IMO.