Good teams/bad teams

[mdrsharon]

One question - how is it we can get up to play great against good teams and so badly against not so good teams?
I realize the parity in the NFL makes no really bad teams (just underperforming) but we just don't seem to show up when we should be blowing them out!
Can we get a decisive win before the last 2 seconds?

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1349738015' post='1182430']
One question - how is it we can get up to play great against good teams and so badly against not so good teams?
I realize the parity in the NFL makes no really bad teams (just underperforming) but we just don't seem to show up when we should be blowing them out!
Can we get a decisive win before the last 2 seconds?
[/quote]
My personal opinion without much factual evidence? I think some players underestimate their opponents. Not sure who, but it has to be some younger players. I don't think it's on the coaches anymore.

[rlh445]

You pretty much answered your own question. Even bad teams (and there ARE bad teams, like the Browns) can get themselves up for a game. Even bad teams have pride. I don't fully agree with Grim that the Ravens specifically underestimate opponents, at least not anymore. I know that was a big problem during the Billick/Ryan era. I just think when you're part of a bad team, you have a unique fire in your belly that makes you wanna go out there and beat someone's butt, and usually that someone is the Ravens. I'm not trying to say we're not a hungry team but rather that we're hungry for a championship, a feat that encompasses an entire season.

Teams like the Browns, Chiefs, Jags, etc are just hungry for a win. Have you ever been hungry mdrsharon? Like you haven't eaten in a week and that half eaten burger on the top of the trash bin in the early morning hours looks like a five star meal? I have. It sucks, but you'll do ANYTHING to eat. I think that's the best analogy I can think of off the top of my head right now to equate to this situation. The aforementioned teams are really hungry for a trashy half burger, and teams like the Ravens are hungry but they're not sure if they want to hit up the Charleston or The Prime Rib.

[mdrsharon]

I realize a win is a win in this league - but we can't get it together enough to be dominant.
I want us to win - really big, especially against teams that are nowhere as good as us.
The Pats put up 50 pts two weeks ago - why can't we?

[rlh445]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1349740551' post='1182471']
I realize a win is a win in this league - but we can't get it together enough to be dominant.
I want us to win - really big, especially against teams that are nowhere as good as us.
The Pats put up 50 pts two weeks ago - why can't we?
[/quote]

If we had Tom Brady, we'd be putting up 50 points

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1349740551' post='1182471']
I realize a win is a win in this league - but we can't get it together enough to be dominant.
I want us to win - really big, especially against teams that are nowhere as good as us.
The Pats put up 50 pts two weeks ago - why can't we?
[/quote]
What rlh445 said is very true. I think the reason we don't blow teams out is multifaceted. For one this is the NFL. I know that's a cliche but it's normally true. We just haven't had a good draw this year, too. Losing teams put an extra umph sometimes into winning. It just so happens the teams we played haven't been that low yet. Sometimes teams give up. It happens.

And you just can't always blow teams out, either.

And back to my point about underestimating: I don't think the team as a whole underestimates opponents; rather, just certain players.

[cobrajet]

Well with our schedule we pretty much have all good teams left, except for the one Browns game left.

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349740911' post='1182473']
If we had Tom Brady, we'd be putting up 50 points
[/quote]

Uh-oh. Here we go.


[quote name='cobrajet' timestamp='1349742598' post='1182508']
Well with our schedule we pretty much have all good teams left, except for the one Browns game left.
[/quote]

What about the Raiders?

[rlh445]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1349742602' post='1182509']
Uh-oh. Here we go.
[/quote]

What . Tom Brady (and I suppose Belichick's go for the throat mentality) are what make them score so many points in a game. They have a fast no huddle type spread offense going on and because Brady's so good, they really aren't stopped a lot of the time. That isn't a knock on Joe, but everyone here would agree he's not Brady. Joe sure has outplayed him though in what, three consecutive games though .

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349742816' post='1182513']
What . Tom Brady (and I suppose Belichick's go for the throat mentality) are what make them score so many points in a game. They have a fast no huddle type spread offense going on and because Brady's so good, they really aren't stopped a lot of the time. That isn't a knock on Joe, but everyone here would agree he's not Brady. Joe sure has outplayed him though in what, three consecutive games though .
[/quote]

Nothing against you, but I am new here and literally every thread turns into a Joe Flacco conversation in seconds.
People are jumping on and off that Flacco bandwagon like crazy. I don't know, if it's Joe's fault, that we always play to the other teams level, he still seems more accurate than ever. I still am shocked, that I have seen Boldin drop an easy pass or Pitta drop a pass at all. It was a crazy game.

[The Raven]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349740911' post='1182473']
If we had Tom Brady, we'd be putting up 50 points
[/quote]

Disagree. If we had Josh McDaniels or Bill Belichick we'd be putting up 50 points. I like Cam for the most part, but those guys are football geniuses

[omar586]

its CAM's fault , he did it.

[Donte]

i think it was stated that we arent that good on the road....a great home team and great all around but on the road we are just a really good team....we arent the same team anymore and the no huddle wasnt effective in that stadium which caused problems, i guess we dont have a plan B if the no huddle isnt working.....

i dont think its joe's fault really, as a team if its a bad week then no one stands out on offense and its been like that...maybe the gameplan didnt work or we got out coached in the matter but i though against the jags last year we just got out played in every area besides the bad ones....but the browns dont count because they know us just as good as anybody in the league but the no huddle and our new threats like jacoby and doss are new so we should still have the upper hand but i guess thats what film is for

[-Truth-]

It is a concern, but it's better than losing to the underwhelming teams, such as what happened last season. The Chiefs are a talented ball club, however, better than their record indicates. Their OL has been lights out this season, their RB is one of the most explosive in the league, and their defense is filled with play-makers. With that in mind, I personally wasn't surprised by how highly contested it was, and neither were the Ravens considering their pre-game and post-game interviews. So I wouldn't push the panic button just yet.

[rlh445]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1349743145' post='1182519']
Nothing against you, but I am new here and literally every thread turns into a Joe Flacco conversation in seconds.
People are jumping on and off that Flacco bandwagon like crazy. I don't know, if it's Joe's fault, that we always play to the other teams level, he still seems more accurate than ever. I still am shocked, that I have seen Boldin drop an easy pass or Pitta drop a pass at all. It was a crazy game.
[/quote]

I know you're new, it's fine. I hope you understand my original post wasn't a jab at Flacco at all, but more of a reality check. Pointing out the Patsies scored 50 points in a game this year and then asking why the Ravens can't do that against 'lesser' opponents is a pretty easy answer: Brady.

[rlh445]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349743218' post='1182524']
Disagree. If we had Josh McDaniels or Bill Belichick we'd be putting up 50 points. I like Cam for the most part, but those guys are football geniuses
[/quote]

You could be right, if you're suggesting that Tom Brady is a product of coaching and nothing more. I tend to err on the side that if a guy produces on the level of a Tom Brady it's probably more due to the fact that he's just that good. Belichick and McDaniels are great coaches, but let's be real: Boller wouldn't be Brady at this point in his career even with them at his side. Cam has his issues, but Brady is Brady because he's just a super intelligent, super good quarterback. I'm quite sure Bill and/or Josh would throw 100 percent of the credit towards him as well. Josh just came to the team this year...Brady's been getting it done like this for many years no matter who the OC is.

[RavensAllTheWay]

Don't forget the 44-13 blowout in week 1.

[UMDan]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1349762299' post='1183054']
Don't forget the 44-13 blowout in week 1.
[/quote]

I was going to bring that up.

[UMDan]

My answer to this: any given Sunday anyone can win. There's so much parity in the league. I think people underestimate the strategy that goes into beating a specific opponent. The film and the play and scheme creation resulting from it has a big role as well as the individual matchups. Some teams are just bad matchups for other teams, whether they are 'better' or not. That's why nobody should ever really be underestimated. So much of this league is dependent on knowing your opponent and making the right calls against them. But then again, those are only predictions. Teams can adapt to game plans and I was at least glad to see that the Ravens sort of did that (at least defensively) on Sunday vs. the Chiefs.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349758110' post='1183021']


You could be right, if you're suggesting that Tom Brady is a product of coaching and nothing more. I tend to err on the side that if a guy produces on the level of a Tom Brady it's probably more due to the fact that he's just that good. Belichick and McDaniels are great coaches, but let's be real: Boller wouldn't be Brady at this point in his career even with them at his side. Cam has his issues, but Brady is Brady because he's just a super intelligent, super good quarterback. I'm quite sure Bill and/or Josh would throw 100 percent of the credit towards him as well. Josh just came to the team this year...Brady's been getting it done like this for many years no matter who the OC is.
[/quote]hes always going to be questioned by how well Matt cassel played when he went down, and how they haven't won anything since the taping the opposing defences scandal.

[callahan09]

[quote name='GrimCoconut' timestamp='1349739250' post='1182457']
My personal opinion without much factual evidence? I think some players underestimate their opponents. Not sure who, but it has to be some younger players. I don't think it's on the coaches anymore.
[/quote]

Well shouldn't it be on the coaches to educate the young players so they know they have to bring their best performance against every team, every game, that there are no gimmes in the NFL, and that even the teams that seem to be struggling or doing poorly are still NFL teams loaded with professional ball players and anything can happen any given Sunday? At some point is has to be the coaches responsibility to make sure the players are prepared for anything and don't take things for granted.

[The Raven]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349758110' post='1183021']
You could be right, if you're suggesting that Tom Brady is a product of coaching and nothing more. I tend to err on the side that if a guy produces on the level of a Tom Brady it's probably more due to the fact that he's just that good. Belichick and McDaniels are great coaches, but let's be real: Boller wouldn't be Brady at this point in his career even with them at his side. Cam has his issues, but Brady is Brady because he's just a super intelligent, super good quarterback. I'm quite sure Bill and/or Josh would throw 100 percent of the credit towards him as well. [b]Josh just came to the team this year...[/b]Brady's been getting it done like this for many years no matter who the OC is.
[/quote]

False. McDaniels was their QB coach from 04 to 08, and their OC from 06 to 08. He was the OC the year they went undefeated and scored 589 points. He coached the 2nd highest scoring offense of all time, only behind the 1950 Rams. He was also the OC when Brady went down and Cassel took the team to an 11-5 record. Billy B and McDaniels have a lot more to do with that offense's success than Brady, in my opinion.

[The Raven]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1349787237' post='1183132']
Well shouldn't it be on the coaches to educate the young players so they know they have to bring their best performance against every team, every game, that there are no gimmes in the NFL, and that even the teams that seem to be struggling or doing poorly are still NFL teams loaded with professional ball players and anything can happen any given Sunday? At some point is has to be the coaches responsibility to make sure the players are prepared for anything and don't take things for granted.
[/quote]

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

[callahan09]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349795836' post='1183228']
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.
[/quote]

Well I guess from a fan perspective, we don't know who to blame or what to do. Since we don't get to experience everything the coaches do and say to our players, we don't know if it's a matter of the coach not leading, or the players not drinking (to incorporate it into your metaphor).

[The Raven]

[quote name='callahan09' timestamp='1349798147' post='1183278']
Well I guess from a fan perspective, we don't know who to blame or what to do. Since we don't get to experience everything the coaches do and say to our players, we don't know if it's a matter of the coach not leading, or the players not drinking (to incorporate it into your metaphor).
[/quote]

I am 100% sure Harbaugh is leading them to water.

[Tank 92]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349758110' post='1183021']
You could be right, if you're suggesting that Tom Brady is a product of coaching and nothing more. I tend to err on the side that if a guy produces on the level of a Tom Brady it's probably more due to the fact that he's just that good. Belichick and McDaniels are great coaches, but let's be real: Boller wouldn't be Brady at this point in his career even with them at his side. Cam has his issues, but Brady is Brady because he's just a super intelligent, super good quarterback. I'm quite sure Bill and/or Josh would throw 100 percent of the credit towards him as well. Josh just came to the team this year...Brady's been getting it done like this for many years no matter who the OC is.
[/quote]

No. Brady is good, but Coach B is much better at his trade than he is at his.

I've never bought into the "Brady worship" deal. He is a good QB, but has his flaws just like most. What makes that O run and the hurry up work so well is total team communication. And that is a place I hope the Ravens can find.

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349795793' post='1183226']
False. McDaniels was their QB coach from 04 to 08, and their OC from 06 to 08. He was the OC the year they went undefeated and scored 589 points. He coached the 2nd highest scoring offense of all time, only behind the 1950 Rams. He was also the OC when Brady went down and Cassel took the team to an 11-5 record. [i][b]Billy B and McDaniels have a lot more to do with that offense's success than Brady, in my opinion.[/b][/i]
[/quote]

Agreed.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='mdrsharon' timestamp='1349738015' post='1182430']
One question - how is it we can get up to play great against good teams and so badly against not so good teams?
I realize the parity in the NFL makes no really bad teams (just underperforming) but we just don't seem to show up when we should be blowing them out!
Can we get a decisive win before the last 2 seconds?
[/quote]

One of the factors for this team play is the amount of young players getting significant time this season, both on offense and defense there are players getting tons of snaps like never before, there was an article last week with amounts of plays played thus far. In the offseason it was assumed we would have one of the oldest O-lines in the NFL and we have one of the younger ones because Harewood and Osemele are now starting with that comes growing pains ( false starts, holding etc ), Defense- It's just Cary Williams 2nd season with significant action, Art, Mcphee, all these guys haven't played this much.

Some of it may also, be players thinking like us fans think, I'm sure some of the younger players may have looked at the Browns and figured it be a blow out win, just like some fans

[Finally]

[quote name='rlh445' timestamp='1349758110' post='1183021']
You could be right, if you're suggesting that Tom Brady is a product of coaching and nothing more. I tend to err on the side that if a guy produces on the level of a Tom Brady it's probably more due to the fact that he's just that good. Belichick and McDaniels are great coaches, but let's be real: Boller wouldn't be Brady at this point in his career even with them at his side. Cam has his issues, but Brady is Brady because he's just a super intelligent, super good quarterback. I'm quite sure Bill and/or Josh would throw 100 percent of the credit towards him as well. Josh just came to the team this year...Brady's been getting it done like this for many years no matter who the OC is.
[/quote]

Brady is also much more seasoned and has gone undefeated in the regular season. The players they bring in immediately adopt a "can win any game" mentality and that confidence translates to the field. Everyone keeps saying that the Ravens defense won't be the same soon but you have a defensive culture. Have the Steelers always been just that good at picking defense players or do the ones they bring in play up to the culture? It is probably a little of both.

Alternatively how many times have we seen good teams on paper find ways to lose over and over? Look at the beloved Cowboys. This team has a culture of shooting itself in the foot. Look at other teams like Carolina who at times can almost sniff victory but then they find a way to lose. The Niners have been sitting on talent for years but stuck in losing mode. Ryan has thrown 2 interceptions against them to have Roddy White chase down the DB and strip the ball, the second time changed the outcome of the game. What are the odds?

Winners win, and losers lose. To change it you have to change the culture. Kansas City is trying to break out of that loser mold but they have been dealt a very tough early schedule. A bad team doesn't mount a comeback like they did against the Saints.

I read it here in another thread that this was a game that you would normally lose. That is a confidence boost for your entire team. It takes those kinds of wins to convince them that the game is not over as long as you have a chance. That is when crazy things like a WR forcing fumbles on DB start to happen.

my 2 cents

[mdrsharon]

Just to get back to the original question - we do rock against the "good" teams, and just lay down against the others.

After last week's weak performance, I am looking to step it up this Sunday. What's going to happen against the Giants, Texans, not to mention the obnoxious Steelers.
Looking for a solid win, and lots of points - not necessarily field goals.
No more dropped passes!!

[Dudeman]

So far this has been a good read and I agree with a lot of people here.

Good or bad really depends on perspective. Keep in mind this is professional football, and most of the players are world class atheletes. With so many things in common from a physical standpoint from player to player and team to team what truly seperates the good from the bad, and the good from the great? The differences are more slight than they may appear. Some teams simply match up well against others, and some are more motivated in certain games than others. Injuries are certainly a factor as well as an injury to a team leader can effect the whole group. Finally the coaching and culture of a team or community can give a team the IT factor. I think playing to a sold out crowd is plenty more motivating than playing to pre-season type capacity games. The fans usually know if their team is putting a good or bad product on the field.

Lastly the final factor seperating good and bad teams is a little bit of luck as well. The football can bounce a lot of different ways, and an official makes calls at their discretion. Having a little luck on your side can go a long way as well. We got lucky last week in Kansas City, and it's going to take more than just luck to get to and win the Super Bowl.