Why Pees Haters Are Wrong (Or Possibly Not)

[flynismo]

I know another reason they are wrong. It's week 5 of his first season with us.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1349672752' post='1181724']
I know another reason they are wrong. It's week 5 of his first season with us.
[/quote]
True but it was the same with chuck (I'm praying for u man) and he was great. I'll give him that he had more talent, but we ain't talentless. Maybe we need to motivate more. We need to tell Cody that the qb or rb is a moving plate of bacon. Problem solved. Jk

[flynismo]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349674520' post='1181744']
True but it was the same with chuck (I'm praying for u man) and he was great. I'll give him that he had more talent, but we ain't talentless. Maybe we need to motivate more. We need to tell Cody that the qb or rb is a moving plate of bacon. Problem solved. Jk
[/quote]

Not only did Pagano have more talent, he faced an absolute cupcake schedule (offensively)

We played SD, Houston (without Andre Johnson), and a whole lot of nobodies...

[LouieDaLug]

There are two problems with this defense, the first is Pees, and the second problem is Pees. Took him an entire half to figure out that the Chiefs were shredding the Ravens defensive sets. That should have been figured out and acted upon by the end of the 1st quarter at the latest. He's worse than Mattison, if thats even possible.

[poedacrow]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1349676208' post='1181752']
Not only did Pagano have more talent, he faced an absolute cupcake schedule (offensively)

We played SD, Houston (without Andre Johnson, [b]and with a third string QB[/b]), and a whole lot of nobodies...
[/quote]

Yup and I have a feeling things will be much different in week 7 in their house

I can't hate on Pees...It's week 5 and we're 4-1 without Sizzle; a fact that looms large. Pees was a pretty good DC in New England and I think as the season goes on we get better.

Now the OC on the other hand...well that's another story.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349647697' post='1180788']
Pees is conservative, but he is a smart D cordinator. He led the pats to two SB (Brady imo is not a hall of famer without him). Heres why we are ranked so low

The D is unexperienced.
This year, we have nine players who have a year of starting experience on D.
Mcphee, Kruger, Upshaw, Albert, Art, and Kindle have never started ever. They will get better as the season goes on.

Suggs- the Magic Johnson of OLB's.
His very presence on the field allowed others to get sacks, when he comes back he wont be the same tho. He will be more of a JJ. Achillies injuries are not taken lightly.

Cary Williams piss poor play.
Everyone else in the secodary has been doing well. Cary goes one one one against their best IDK why. We need to put him at nickel and put Jimmy (who needs experience) against their best. Jimmy has been good so far.

We are a young D, two years we will be back on the top (once we draft Eric Reid, Teo, or William Gholston)
[/quote]

I don't have a problem with anything said except " he led the Pats to 2 SBs and Brady isn't a HOFer without him ?" And I realize its your opinion but why do u feel that way? The first 2 SuperBowls the defense paved the way for SuperBowls while Brady was more of manager with good run game, 3rd Superbowl was when Pees joined them as a Linebackers coach, and that team was when Brady and the offense began to take shape, Crommel and Mangini were still mainstays from previous SuperBowls. Pees was the D-Coordinator on the 16-0 team but that was powered by Offense that was nearly unstoppable all year. Pees may be good, but I'd give Belicheck, Crommel, Mangini more credit as Defensive minds over Pees ( not to mention Charlie Wies and McDaniels as OCs ).

[jdynamite]

That game vs Chiefs definitely will help the passing defense rankings ( and I'm sure the Run Defense won't be giving up 125 in first half again for a long time ) they were tough inte second half.

Even though Cary Williams finally has 2 INTs I still want to see how Jimmy Smith looks as a starter.

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1349660658' post='1181315']
[b]Fat Suggs [/b]still drew double teams and was still exceptional against the run.
[/quote]

um hello he's not fat.

[The Raven]

[quote name='LouieDaLug' timestamp='1349681805' post='1181771']
There are two problems with this defense, the first is Pees, and the second problem is Pees. Took him an entire half to figure out that the Chiefs were shredding the Ravens defensive sets. That should have been figured out and acted upon by the end of the 1st quarter at the latest. He's worse than Mattison, if thats even possible.
[/quote]

He stacked the box. What other adjustments are there?

Actually, you tell me. What would you have done differently sir? Pray tell.

When the execution improved, the defense improved. Simple as that.

[The Raven]

[quote name='ThePurpleWall' timestamp='1349700832' post='1181828']
um hello he's not fat.
[/quote]

He was fat as hell in 2009, which he was referring to.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='ThePurpleWall' timestamp='1349700832' post='1181828']
um hello he's not fat.
[/quote]

...I was talking about Suggs two years ago when he admittedly showed up to camp 20 pounds overweight after getting his big contract.

[Greatness]

You can scheme people to be better. As we've seen, being conservative gets us the 23rd ranked defense. And 10th in the Mattison days. But I won't completely get on the Pees hate train, but he irritates me at times!

[redrum52]

If we could've convinced Fat Suggs that each sack in 09 came with a bucket a chicken he would have won MVP.

People will come around with Pees and I hope he actually stays for a little bit. Even under Mattison there was an adjustment period and people do forget the creampuff schedule we had last year. Offensively we didn't play many juggernauts. He's more aggressive pressure wise than people realize but I do wish we played more press coverage. I will give him credit for being able to make in game adjustments which the offense seems to struggle with. The d will only get better as the guys get more comfortable in the system.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1349660658' post='1181315']
Fat Suggs still drew double teams and was still exceptional against the run.
[/quote]
He was very good against the run, but he didn't draw conventional double teams like you may think. He was rarely chipped, mostly teams kept a back in to delay block then release. We still couldn't pass rush in 2009.

[nextgen_RavensFan]

You can already see a very nice improvements on the part of Kruger and Upshaw. By the last third if the season those 2 will be making Pees look good and all should be back to normal.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1349712153' post='1181968']
He was very good against the run, but he didn't draw conventional double teams like you may think. He was rarely chipped, mostly teams kept a back in to delay block then release. We still couldn't pass rush in 2009.
[/quote]

I agree that we couldn't pass rush, I'm just saying Mattison was in a better situation with a virtually immobile Sizzle than Pees is with the current inexperience at the position.

[Blex64]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1349731507' post='1182319']
I agree that we couldn't pass rush, I'm just saying Mattison was in a better situation with a virtually immobile Sizzle than Pees is with the current inexperience at the position.
[/quote]

In some ways yes, in others no. Mattison had garbage to work with in the secondary. That being said, we can't produce any sort of pressure even with a star studded secondary, so whatever.

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1349708243' post='1181913']
...I was talking about Suggs two years ago when he admittedly showed up to camp 20 pounds overweight after getting his big contract... try to keep up.
[/quote]

try to keep up with being nice to others jack.

[chevalier]

OP d you ever watch Cary Williams? He is draped on their WRs usually. His technique is very solid. He gets thrown at alot because Webby is even better. But Webby gets thrown at too. Our corners play very solid coverage. Cary doesn't turn out alot of INTs but then again, he never gets torched either for big plays. CBs give up yards at times, thats a fact of life. Cary is as good as anyone else available out there. Webby is also a SLOT CB. Meaning he excels at for example shadowing a Wes Welker. Cary is a standard outside leverage trail technique CB. I dont understand the hate on him. He's no Revis,, but what I see on tape is a guy who plays solid. He's 10 times better than Fabian Washington ever was

[H8R]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1349650235' post='1180878']


Redding was a free agent and the team understandably felt confident in the young d-lineman. Had Suggs not gotten hurt, I don't think the run D would look nearly as leaky as it has.
[/quote]
the pathetic nature in which our ends get off the ball would have me worried if I were a coach... I mean, none of these guys are even in shape for the NFL IMO... we have run stuffers that can't stuff the run.. go figure..

[H8R]

[quote name='chevalier' timestamp='1349747802' post='1182679']
OP d you ever watch Cary Williams? He is draped on their WRs usually. His technique is very solid. He gets thrown at alot because Webby is even better. But Webby gets thrown at too. Our corners play very solid coverage. Cary doesn't turn out alot of INTs but then again, he never gets torched either for big plays. CBs give up yards at times, thats a fact of life. Cary is as good as anyone else available out there. Webby is also a SLOT CB. Meaning he excels at for example shadowing a Wes Welker. Cary is a standard outside leverage trail technique CB. I dont understand the hate on him. He's no Revis,, but what I see on tape is a guy who plays solid. He's 10 times better than Fabian Washington ever was
[/quote]

The hate is about his complete lack of technique... he has his back to the QB too much, he's a big guy that can't get a jam at the line..

[Ravensfan23]

Pees is the defensive version of Cam. They are both really smart guys, but sometimes seem to outsmart themselves when playing chest with oppsoing team.

There are times when the defense looks down right dominant, but we'll seeming attempt to confuse the QB and we give up a big play. Or we'll go to that soft zone at the worst time.

I think Pees is in a great situation because he has the chance to grow with this young defense. We talk about all the things Pees is doing wrong, but what about the players? They have to step up their play as well and they have for the most part.

As mentioned above, the defense is really young and this is essentially a re-tooling year for us. Guys like Kruger, Upshaw, McClellan, Jones, McPhee, Cody, Smith, Williams, McClain and Ellerbe will all grow together, but a lot of those guys are role players and they have to understand that. I think early on you had guys wanting to do too much, because they saw some openings on defense to be one of those recognizable names on the great Ravens Defense.

They gotta know that guys like AD, Bart, JJ and Gregg had to earn their stripes as backup/dirty work players, before becoming major players.

As the season gets older, those guys will adjust to their roles and really start to excel imo

[flynismo]

[quote name='chevalier' timestamp='1349747802' post='1182679']Cary doesn't turn out alot of INTs but then again, [b]he never gets torched either for big plays. [/b]
[/quote]

Sarcasm, I pray...

[UMDan]

I think we all agree that a pass rush needs to be established. I understand playing conservative but with our defense kind of floundering we should try something else.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='UMDan' timestamp='1349756340' post='1183001']
I think we all agree that a pass rush needs to be established. [/quote]
Yes, and calling more blitzes wil help us. We are screwed against top notch offenses if we don't blitz more, even with Suggs back.

[display name]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349647697' post='1180788']
Pees is conservative, but he is a smart D cordinator. He led the pats to two SB (Brady imo is not a hall of famer without him). Heres why we are ranked so low

The D is unexperienced.
This year, we have nine players who have a year of starting experience on D.
Mcphee, Kruger, Upshaw, Albert, Art, and Kindle have never started ever. They will get better as the season goes on.

Suggs- the Magic Johnson of OLB's.
His very presence on the field allowed others to get sacks, when he comes back he wont be the same tho. He will be more of a JJ. Achillies injuries are not taken lightly.

Cary Williams piss poor play.
Everyone else in the secodary has been doing well. Cary goes one one one against their best IDK why. We need to put him at nickel and put Jimmy (who needs experience) against their best. Jimmy has been good so far.

We are a young D, two years we will be back on the top (once we draft Eric Reid, Teo, or William Gholston)
[/quote]
I see your point. He is a little over conservative, but the absence of Suggs and Cary's terrible play are the main issues.
However, Pees was not the reason why the Pats made those two SBs, I must correct you on that.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1349829246' post='1183721']

I see your point. He is a little over conservative, but the absence of Suggs and Cary's terrible play are the main issues.
However, Pees was not the reason why the Pats made those two SBs, I must correct you on that.
[/quote]
Ok, Pees wasn't the reason, but was still a good d coordinator, with jimmy playing as well as he is, and everyone else doing decent, Suggs return will be all the more sweeter. But, Matty ice and his all powerful armada will still get more attention.

[Guest RBates]

Pees haters are right. His defensive schemes are horrible. Pathetic against the run. i can't believe this thread is active after the Kansas city game.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1350236753' post='1187480']
Pees haters are right. His defensive schemes are horrible. Pathetic against the run. i can't believe this thread is active after the Kansas city game.
[/quote]
Like I've been saying. His schemes are just not good.

[Guest RBates]

Man theses coaches in B more are terrible.