Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

SecretAgentMan

Why Pees Haters Are Wrong (Or Possibly Not)

260 posts in this topic

Pees is conservative, but he is a smart D cordinator. He led the pats to two SB (Brady imo is not a hall of famer without him). Heres why we are ranked so low

The D is unexperienced.
This year, we have nine players who have a year of starting experience on D.
Mcphee, Kruger, Upshaw, Albert, Art, and Kindle have never started ever. They will get better as the season goes on.

Suggs- the Magic Johnson of OLB's.
His very presence on the field allowed others to get sacks, when he comes back he wont be the same tho. He will be more of a JJ. Achillies injuries are not taken lightly.

Cary Williams piss poor play.
Everyone else in the secodary has been doing well. Cary goes one one one against their best IDK why. We need to put him at nickel and put Jimmy (who needs experience) against their best. Jimmy has been good so far.

We are a young D, two years we will be back on the top (once we draft Eric Reid, Teo, or William Gholston)
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I second this. People are so quick to jump at Pees. Like today, we knew the run was coming we couldn't stop it. We were playing the run but its still up to the players to shed their blocks and get a hand on the runner.

This team could not foresee losing Suggs. If we knew that, we probably wouldn't have let JJ and Redding go. The loss of Suggs set our defense back. Our front 7 are a young bunch and they are inconsistent, but they are only going to improve.

The personnel (which could eventually be our strength) is our weakness right now.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If we finish in the top half of the league in defense all will be good. Even though thats not something we Ravens fans will be used to, I would be happy with it. There has been a lot of different changes from our D over the year, I knew it wouldnt be like last years but not this bad.

As right now I have never been more concerned about our defense, ever. - But the season is still young, we just got to fix it up.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1349648253' post='1180807']
If we finish in the top half of the league in defense all will be good. Even though thats not something we Ravens fans will be used to, I would be happy with it. There has been a lot of different changes from our D over the year, I knew it wouldnt be like last years but not this bad.

As right now I have never been more concerned about our defense, ever. - But the season is still young, we just got to fix it up.
[/quote]
Pees will be leathal is Suggs comes back as half the player he used to be.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1349647966' post='1180798']
I second this. People are so quick to jump at Pees. Like today, we knew the run was coming we couldn't stop it. We were playing the run but its still up to the players to shed their blocks and get a hand on the runner.

This team could not foresee losing Suggs. If we knew that, we probably wouldn't have let JJ and Redding go. The loss of Suggs set our defense back. Our front 7 are a young bunch and they are inconsistent, but they are only going to improve.

The personnel (which could eventually be our strength) is our weakness right now.
[/quote]

we should stop saying "if we knew about sizzle"... it was a bad decision for our organisation to let JJ and Redding go, just relying on youngsters... end off, so now we roll we what we got and coordinators should do their best to maximise every player's input... i'll wait to share judgement on Pees until sizzle is back... until then i'm just not convinced
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349648458' post='1180817']
Pees will be leathal is Suggs comes back as half the player he used to be.
[/quote]
I sure hope so. Suggs absense definitely has affected the way we blitz, play the run and use subs. He has been greatly missed.

The other problem we have had this year is just simple execution.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1349648479' post='1180819']
we should stop saying "if we knew about sizzle"... [b]it was a bad decision for our organisation to JJ and Redding go, just relying on youngsters... end off,[/b] so now we roll we what we got and coordinators should do their best to maximise every player's input... i'll wait t share judgement on Pees until sizzle is back... until then i'm just not convinced
[/quote]

I don't think it was though with the assumption Suggs would be at full speed. JJ's salary was enormous. We had just drafted a first round talent (who also got injured). The call was right at the time (would've like to kept Redding), but we got burned.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
He has improved from the first few weeks...The philly game was horrible play calling but he is ok i guess....Hes just so vanilla....
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
he used the corners like they should be used today. hopefully he keeps them close to the receivers more than just when we play QB's like cassel though. our defense played physical (even though all those rushing yards wouldn't suggest that) and we created turnovers because of it. i'll see moving forward what opinion i have of him.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree. I'm not going to be over critical about our D. We are without our best player on top of losing two consistently good vets. As hard as it is to watch our defense, they've kept the team in it these last 2 games.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Markus92' timestamp='1349648904' post='1180837']
He has improved from the first few weeks...The philly game was horrible play calling but he is ok i guess....[b]Hes just so vanilla....[/b]
[/quote]

A big part of the reason he has to be vanilla is because of the personnel. Going blitz-heavy would be risky, especially with the a number of LBs and DBs struggling in coverage.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pees impressed me with the half time adjustments.
The run was killing us today. If not for the adjustments at half time this would have been a loss.

[quote name='horus13corvineus' timestamp='1349648479' post='1180819']


it was a bad decision for our organisation to let JJ and Redding go,
[/quote]

It was a great descision.
It was ecconomics. Had we kept JJ and Redding, its likely Rice would not have worked a deal, Webb might not have gotten the deal he did, we likely would not have Jacoby Jones, who has been a tremendous assette.
Yes JJ and Redding were fantastic players and the team suffers from them not being here, the fact of the matter is we have a cap that dictates many of our descisions.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1349649924' post='1180871']
Pees impressed me with the half time adjustments.
The run was killing us today. If not for the adjustments at half time this would have been a loss.



It was a great descision.
It was ecconomics. Had we kept JJ and Redding, its likely Rice would not have worked a deal, Webb might not have gotten the deal he did, we likely would not have Jacoby Jones, who has been a tremendous assette.
Yes JJ and Redding were fantastic players and the team suffers from them not being here, the fact of the matter is we have a cap that dictates many of our descisions.
[/quote]
Anyawy, yes the economics are correct, JJ hada massive contract, but I do think that Redding was a bit unreasonable.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349650059' post='1180874']
Anyawy, yes the economics are correct, JJ hada massive contract, but I do think that Redding was a bit unreasonable.
[/quote]

Redding was a free agent and the team understandably felt confident in the young d-lineman. Had Suggs not gotten hurt, I don't think the run D would look nearly as leaky as it has.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1349649603' post='1180857']
A big part of the reason he has to be vanilla is because of the personnel. Going blitz-heavy would be risky, especially with the a number of LBs and DBs struggling in coverage.
[/quote]
I guess thats true...But i feel that since we have no pass rush rushing 4 unlike every other team in the nfl you have to blitz or our corners have to cover for 6-7 seconds....
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Markus92' timestamp='1349650424' post='1180887']
I guess thats true...But i feel that since we have no pass rush rushing 4 unlike every other team in the nfl you have to blitz or our corners have to cover for 6-7 seconds....
[/quote]

And you just explained why Pees is in a hard spot.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Our defense is still very young and inexperienced. However, there are gems shining through that are helping us out in big moments. Be patient, there's still a lot of football left. I don't expect a whole lot to change when Suggs does return, but I believe the run D will get shored up.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='K-Dog' timestamp='1349649924' post='1180871']
Pees impressed me with the half time adjustments.
[/quote]
Too bad they weren't first half adjustments.

I was impressed by nearly all of our defensive players today, and by Pees' ability to take an hour to figure out that he doesn't need to have his safeties 20 yards from the line of scrimmage when a team never throws the ball. I'm a bit disappointed in Jimmy Smith right now though. It seems like he responds to getting beat (which happens more often than I'd like) by grabbing the receiver, and that might bite us in the [profanity deleted] someday.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349647697' post='1180788']
Pees is conservative, but he is a smart D cordinator. He led the pats to two SB (Brady imo is not a hall of famer without him). Heres why we are ranked so low

The D is unexperienced.
This year, we have nine players who have a year of starting experience on D.
Mcphee, Kruger, Upshaw, Albert, Art, and Kindle have never started ever. They will get better as the season goes on.

Suggs- the Magic Johnson of OLB's.
His very presence on the field allowed others to get sacks, when he comes back he wont be the same tho. He will be more of a JJ. Achillies injuries are not taken lightly.

Cary Williams piss poor play.
Everyone else in the secodary has been doing well. Cary goes one one one against their best IDK why. We need to put him at nickel and put Jimmy (who needs experience) against their best. Jimmy has been good so far.

We are a young D, two years we will be back on the top (once we draft Eric Reid, Teo, or William Gholston)
[/quote]
Pees was not the DCoord for NE when they won all their Super Bowls. He was promoted in 2006, Mangini left for a HC after winning the Super Bowl as the DCoord in 2005.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I don't hate Pees, but I also don't feel he's an exceptional DCoord. It's obvious we're hurting in the front 7 with all the inexperience and to be blunt, lesser talent (right now) and that is affecting the secondary, but I'm just not sold on his coverages or zone blitzes. People are constantly comparing him to Mattison but to be honest I don't think that's fair to Mattison. I've said it a couple times but Mattison had an AWFUL secondary to work with and still managed to keep us in the top 5 for scoring defenses because his coverage schemes were more effective. We were in the same boat in 2009 that we are in now, with no one who could pass rush (Suggs was fat and incredibly slow), yet we were top 5. I just don't see the same creative zone blitz schemes from Pees that we've seen the last couple of years (people hated Mattison but he actually created some effective zone blitzes, he just rarely used them).
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1349656784' post='1181141']
I don't hate Pees, but I also don't feel he's an exceptional DCoord. It's obvious we're hurting in the front 7 with all the inexperience and to be blunt, lesser talent (right now) and that is affecting the secondary, but I'm just not sold on his coverages or zone blitzes. People are constantly comparing him to Mattison but to be honest I don't think that's fair to Mattison. I've said it a couple times but Mattison had an AWFUL secondary to work with and still managed to keep us in the top 5 for scoring defenses because his coverage schemes were more effective. We were in the same boat in 2009 that we are in now, with no one who could pass rush (Suggs was fat and incredibly slow), yet we were top 5. I just don't see the same creative zone blitz schemes from Pees that we've seen the last couple of years (people hated Mattison but he actually created some effective zone blitzes, he just rarely used them).
[/quote]

Fat Suggs still drew double teams and was still exceptional against the run.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pees made some excellent adjustments in the 2nd half regarding run defense.

The only problem I have is what took him so long ?
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pees made adjustments from one half to the other, no doubt. And from what I saw from the Chiefs 20 or so throws, he also didn't play hideously soft zone.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='NaveSenrag' timestamp='1349652949' post='1180989']

Too bad they weren't first half adjustments.

I was impressed by nearly all of our defensive players today, and by Pees' ability to take an hour to figure out that he doesn't need to have his safeties 20 yards from the line of scrimmage when a team never throws the ball. I'm a bit disappointed in Jimmy Smith right now though. It seems like he responds to getting beat (which happens more often than I'd like) by grabbing the receiver, and that might bite us in the [profanity deleted] someday.
[/quote]

One of the dirty little secrets about the NFL is that the best corners all hold. The key is to hold without tugging the jersey by hooking the shoulder pads. Webb does it, as do Revis, Woodson and Nnamdi. Jimmy just has to get better at not getting turned around but I think he's figured out what he can and can't do with his hands. That PI call was total trash, Bowe was literally bending him backwards.
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1349661128' post='1181340']
Cary doesn't match up with their #1 on purpose. He lines up on the same spot every play.
[/quote]

Yea I like the scheme in that regard, it keeps our guys from ending up in physical mismatches (i.e. Webb v. Baldwin). My biggest problem with Cary is his lack of body control. He's very reckless with his movements and that's why he gets blown up for PI calls when he's tight on receivers. This causes him to play off coverage to allow more room to work, and the cycle continues...
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yeah, Pees haters are wrong because:

[b]1. Lost Starters[/b]: We lost JJ (LOLB), Redding (LDE). I am beginning to believe that Redding & Ngata made Cody look better than he is. Losing Redding was the worst blow we had. Jones & McPhee lack experienced, are injured (McPhee), and are struggling at times to win their one-on-one battles. McPhee to a lesser extent. I've actually liked what I've seen from McPhee, but he seems to keep getting hurt. Jones is good against the run, but he offers no pass rush at all. Cody hasn't had a lot of opportunities so it's difficult to judge but he has mixed results when in, which I find confusing because I thought he was always in the weight room in the off-season (or am I crazy?). Kemoeatu is awful.

[b]2. Injuries[/b]: McBean (DT), Suggs (ROLB), I think McBean would have been a better player than Kemeoatu. I've been very unimpressed with Kemo & Cody. I think things could be very different (obviously) if McBean hadn't broken his leg. I really like McBean, and I mentioned in the thread who would step up in the DTs and I said McBean (before he broke his leg). Man does it suck to lose him. I wish we were able to keep Kitchen. He has looked good so far. I'm wondering why we haven't used Bryan Hall, though. He looked pretty good. I'd like to see what he offers here pretty soon. Obviously, losing Suggs hurts. I don't think the OLBs would have been as bad initially if we hadn't lost Suggs. Having two new starters at OLBs is a difficult thing, which is why I agreed with the Ravens letting JJ walk. In hindsight it was a bad move, but it's only a bad move because of the Suggs injury. Without that injury the move is fine. Upshaw, Kruger, Kindle & McClellan were all supposed to be competing for that LOLB spot-not for the ROLB.

Those two things has caused chaos on our defense. The DL can't rush the passer, which causes the OLBs to work harder, which causes more time for the secondary to hold their assignments, which causes the QB to get more time in the pocket, which causes the secondary to lose their assignments and allows the QB to make plays. I also think the defense is getting tired. The defense looks beat, possibly due to the hurry-up offense--both from our offense and the opposing offenses. We have not been winning the TOP. That has been the biggest problem I have seen so far--not our defense. In fact, we held the Kansas City Chiefs to NO touchdowns. Not one. Yeah, there were turnovers, but not even Charles broke one. I find that impressive.
1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I've been watching JJ and Redding today and boy i took their presence for granted. they've been great. on topic, I'll let Pees go for a little while because now i have figured out our D-line hasn't just been bad, they've been god awful. Kemo and McPhee have just not got anything done at all even with the best DL in the game right next to you. i don't understand how your D can even hold up with the way they're playing. NT/DE should be our greatest concern this offseason. that will make the dancing bear happy.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites