Merged: If Rex Ryan Was Fired...

[The Raven]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1349052361' post='1174404']
For sure. Having Revis helps a little though.
[/quote]

It does, for sure.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1349051820' post='1174392']

They both used very wimpy rush-3 zone coverage schemes, so no the comparisons are not that far off.
Sizzle and Cary are bigger problems than Pees though.
[/quote]
Umm Pees blitzed like 50% of the snaps against the Browns. So much misinformation on this board.

[Dubs]

I am in no way for firing Pees - as stated we lost a TON of defensive talent and the adjustment period from that, let alone a new D coordinator will take some time.

However, to fully contradict myself I will join the talk of who I would like to see take over, if it were to happen. I will stick with logic and stay in house - as we almost always do. Teryl Austin I think one day will be an amazing DC, he has done a fantastic job developing the DBs and has learned under some of the better defensive coaches. Just throwing him out there as I think whenever Pees is done and if Austin is still here he is next in line and a very good candidate. I also love Clarence Brooks but I think he is more of a positions coach, one of the best at that.

[redrum52]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1349051825' post='1174393']
I don't think Ryan gets fired. Their GM seems more at risk.
[/quote]

I blame him more than Ryan. As I said the team personnel wise has gotta worse each year her been there. I honestly don't thin Rex has been doing a bad job there.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1349047332' post='1174242']
At least Mattison mixed up coverages. pees is worse.
[/quote]
This.

I've been saying it for a couple weeks but Mattison's ONLY fault as a defensive coordinator is that he didn't know how to bring 3-4 schemed pressure or how to mix up fronts on the d-line. He was actually a VERY adept coverage coordinator. Theres a reason we were top 5 still with a fat Suggs and TERRRRRIBLE corners.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1349052895' post='1174420']

This.

I've been saying it for a couple weeks but Mattison's ONLY fault as a defensive coordinator is that he didn't know how to bring 3-4 schemed pressure or how to mix up fronts on the d-line. He was actually a VERY adept coverage coordinator. Theres a reason we were top 5 still with a fat Suggs and TERRRRRIBLE corners.
[/quote]
Fat Suggs is still better than no Suggs. It boggles my mind that this fanbase doesnt seem to grasp just how much losing the DPOY hurts. We cant generate pressure rushing 4.

[redrum52]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349053424' post='1174428']

Fat Suggs is still better than no Suggs. It boggles my mind that this fanbase doesnt seem to grasp just how much losing the DPOY hurts. We cant generate pressure rushing 4.
[/quote]

I understand. Wasn't it 2 years ago we only had cometh g like 28 sacks. Suggs had half of that last year. People probably just didn't realized how much easier he made everyone else's job.

[EnVy_CaLiBeR]

Not a huge fan of Pees but the defensive drop is more of a case that we are transitioning from losing Suggs, JJ, and Redding in the same offseason. Plus, our guys are still inexperienced and young. It'll get better over time.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='EnVy_CaLiBeR' timestamp='1349053613' post='1174439']
Not a huge fan of Pees but the defensive drop is more of a case that we are transitioning from losing Suggs, JJ, and Rdding in the same offseason. Plus, our guys are still inexperienced and young. It'll get better over time.
[/quote]
This. Redding was really underrated as a pass-rusher. He and sizzle had good chemistry.

[The Raven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349052681' post='1174412']
Umm Pees blitzed like 50% of the snaps against the Browns. So much misinformation on this board.
[/quote]

I know right? I can't believe how many people think we've been sending 3 man rushes. We've barely sent any 3 man rushes.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1349039912' post='1174022']
No to Rex. He talks too much. We don't need that cancer in the locker room.
[/quote]
I don't care hes agressive. Pees isn't. Hire Rahim Morris, or put our D-Line Coach at Cordinator. No more conservative coaches.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1349054280' post='1174464']
I don't care hes agressive. Pees isn't. Hire Rahim Morris, or put our D-Line Coach at Cordinator. No more conservative coaches.
[/quote]

How do you know Brooks isn't conservative?

[Bravens292]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1349052895' post='1174420']
This.

I've been saying it for a couple weeks but Mattison's ONLY fault as a defensive coordinator is that he didn't know how to bring 3-4 schemed pressure or how to mix up fronts on the d-line. He was actually a VERY adept coverage coordinator. Theres a reason we were top 5 still with a fat Suggs and TERRRRRIBLE corners.
[/quote]

yeah i don't think we can use the talent drop as an excuse because i think our talent was far worse back then and somehow we managed to overcome it. Having an improved Webb and Ngata, still great Lewis, Jimmy, Reed, and Pollard should be enough talent to create SOMETHING! i am by no means a pessimist but i just don't see this defense improving if we give a rookie QB 300+ yards. i can't remember the last time we even came close to that

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Bravens292' timestamp='1349054805' post='1174471']
yeah i don't think we can use the talent drop as an excuse because i think our talent was far worse back then and somehow we managed to overcome it. [b]Having an improved Webb and Ngata, still great Lewis, Jimmy, Reed, and Pollard should be enough talent to create SOMETHING![/b] i am by no means a pessimist but i just don't see this defense improving if we give a rookie QB 300+ yards. i can't remember the last time we even came close to that
[/quote]

Where those players play is partly the problem. The most dependable (to an extent) talent on defense is primarily on the second and third levels. Haloti, as amazing as he is, can only do so much. Along the d-line, McPhee and Kruger were efficient pass rushers last season, but their limited snaps likely contributed to that. They're playing more snaps this year and their overall pass rushing seems to have suffered. Upshaw has looked good in spurts but he's not an overly explosive pass rusher. Beyond them, the best bet for pressure is blitzing, which opens up hot-reads for opposing QBs.

[CalvinSmoke]

I use to get mad at these sorts of threads but I respect your opinions. I think Pees is getting a bad rep. We look at the gaudy numbers put up on us and assume the worse.
1) he's not as conservative as we think, especially on third downs and at the end of games. He brings the house, remember the play against NE where the pocket evaporated on Brady in less than a second. And Ed Reed sat on Tom's shoulders!
2) Our corners can't seem to get it right. I think that is where the adjustment is hitting us the most, our linebackers have blown many overages too. That, hopefully can be fixed.
3) He rarely does a 3 man rush, maybe 10% of the time, but if i'm wrong, than i'm wrong.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349054762' post='1174470']
How do you know Brooks isn't conservative?
[/quote]
Good point.
Mr. Irrelevents on the unemployment line , I am willing to sub in JK.
We try Brooks, anything is better than conservative.

[redrum52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349054258' post='1174462']


I know right? I can't believe how many people think we've been sending 3 man rushes. We've barely sent any 3 man rushes.
[/quote]


Usually send four. We did blitz a lot but it kept getting there late. My problem with Pees is not allowing the guy on the outside to bump. Besides this I do think he's still mixing personnel to find his best groups. I see the defense getting it together by the bye. A's long as the team is clicking when it matters most I ciukd care less about stats.

[The Raven]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1349056805' post='1174500']
Usually send four. We did blitz a lot but it kept getting there late. My problem with Pees is not allowing the guy on the outside to bump. Besides this I do think he's still mixing personnel to find his best groups. I see the defense getting it together by the bye. A's long as the team is clicking when it matters most I ciukd care less about stats.
[/quote]

That's my problem with him as well!

Really though, I can live with the excessive yardage as long as we do well in points allowed, sacks, and turnovers

[Dfence4champs2052]

I haven't liked what I've seen either, but I just want a fix for the pass rush. Even when Suggs comes back.

[Ravenseconbeast]

Rex lost his juice. His a lost soul now. Just like the rest of the poor folks that moves to Jets franchise.

[flynismo]

All I can say is, I'm glad -so far- that Pees is our DC. That may or may not change, I'd love to see what he can do with a healthy Suggs in the lineup.

I'm also glad the FO doesnt listen to us fans. I have no clue where some of you guys get the impression that Pees is overly conservative, doesnt send blitzes or mix his coverages, because I am watching the same games everyone else is, and I see with my own eyes Webb going in way too often on a blitz, Upshaw and Kruger occasionally actually beating their man and getting into the backfield, I see Cary getting burned constantly in both man and zone...I could go on, but it would be futile.

[ghost1986]

I can't say yet, but he is looking Mattisonesque, but he also doesn't have the personnel we had last year. Suggs is big, but I think Redding was equally important.

[flynismo]

Thats another thing I dont get-- comparing him to Mattison as if thats a bad thing. Matty was another guy who got a bad rap

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1349062247' post='1174560']
Thats another thing I dont get-- comparing him to Mattison as if thats a bad thing. Matty was another guy who got a bad rap
[/quote]
He actually wasn't bad, but Pagano was 50,000,000,000,000,069 times better.

[jdynamite]

I think the defense will improve as the season goes along.
Right now picturing our defense starting off badly like the Eagles last year and they still finished with nice rankings.

Or how with Mattison, the defenses seemed conservative in nature even when we blitzed it was straight forward, no surprises or stunts... But even with his conservative style we still finished with 10th overall Total yards and 3rd scoring defense.

Not having Suggs is almost enough to give him a mulligan, because Ngata is the only person winning any battles up front right now.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349053424' post='1174428']
Fat Suggs is still better than no Suggs. It boggles my mind that this fanbase doesnt seem to grasp just how much losing the DPOY hurts. We cant generate pressure rushing 4.
[/quote]
Fat Suggs was applying about as much pressure as Kruger is right now. Fat Suggs had 4.5 sacks and could barely move. Obviously losing Suggs how he is now is a MASSIVE blow to the defense, he's the only guy that can pass rush. But Fat Suggs was TERRIBLE in 2009.

[Gordo52]

I'd love to have a DC like Rex. To bad that will never happen though.

[omar586]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1349039251' post='1173996']
Say the defense finishes around 20th in yards top 10 scoring and turnovers. If Rex was fired how would you feel about brining him back? I wouldn't mind and feel he's a great coordinator. I even think he's not that bad a hc but if you look at the Jets his personnel has gotten worse every year he's been there. Before you think I'm knocking Pees I do think the defense starts to click with more time in the system and him learning where is best to put the players.
[/quote]
i agree, i was thinking about that yesterday, too, after they got smoked by niners, if he gets fired will the ravens bring him back, that is interesting, i think he's the best DC we ever had, think about what he can do with Defensive personnel we have, and i do think we have decent enough players to b better D than what we're now, it might be just pees scheme,

[Gordo52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1349062247' post='1174560']
Thats another thing I dont get-- comparing him to Mattison as if thats a bad thing. Matty was another guy who got a bad rap
[/quote]
[img]http://www.blackbirdnation.com/images/GregMattison.jpg[/img][img]http://www.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2012/01/Dean-Pees.jpg[/img]
Because they're two old white guys who have had the luxary of coaching the Baltimore Ravens defense. The bar is set so high for them. If it doesn't look like a "Ravens defense" than it's no good. Which means it's a Mattison defense. Also people believe that they both play a vanilla scheme when really our players aren't executing.

[omar586]

we dont have the killer instinct that we have when Rex was around, our D is letting opponents hang around too long.