A reason why McKinnie is not starting...

[Moderator 3]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1348758102' post='1169055']
I was one of the few who didn't disagree with the call to go for it. It's good to see my judgment was sound in principle. If McKinnie isn't a bum, that's probably a first down.
[/quote]

I'm with you on that. I wholeheartedly support aggressive offense. The coaches need to show confidence. Most of the time that play should work.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1348754127' post='1168980']
That break down is nice and all, but unless it came from a coach with knowledge of what "exactly" was supposed to happen, there is no way of knowing what really happened.

Looking at the play live, i thought the LB just did a great job of timing his blitz, shooting the gap and disrupting the play. The breakdown says that McKinnie turned right for no reason. Imo he didn't. From the looks of the play, McKinnie was supposed to block down on the ILB and Leach was supposed to get the kick out block on the outside man.

At the snap, the ILB blitz making it impossible for McKinnie to reach him. If you watch the play closely it looks like Leach's first step was to the outside, but he quickly changed direction to block the ILB coming free. Now unless Leach was giving a jab step, i highly doubt this was intentional.

[b]Where i do think McKinnie failed at was to double down on Jones with oher then getting to the second level, but again, unless a coach breaks it down, we just dont know[/b]
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure this is what was supposed to happen. Based on the footwork of Leach, Pierce, and the blocks of the linemen it looked like it was your basic "down-down-kickout" scheme, with Leach taking the kickout on the safety. It was supposed to be an off tackle run for sure. I can't blame Leach for not blocking Chung either though. When he saw the blitzing linebacker he did the right thing by adapting his path to get him.

After reviewing the play, it was more of a good play by New England, rather than a bad play for us. No doubt it could have been executed better, but its hard as hell to run off tackle against that front, especially with the safety in the box. The blitzing linebacker really caused all of our grief in the play. I want to blame McKinnie as much as anybody, but it looks like it actually wasn't his fault. He still did a horrible job on the double team with Oher, but his responsibility was not Chung.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1348755194' post='1169003']
On review this is correct, everyone is on assignment except Harewood who doubles on NT (Wilfork) with Birk instead of the blitzing linebacker (Mayo) on his left shoulder. Leach who is rolling out left sees the linebacker on the inside and plants with his left foot and cuts back inside to seal him off, this leaves the safety (Chung) free to make the play. McKinnie bumps the DE (Jones) but should have stayed with him a touch longer, he places himself in position to block anyone coming across.
[/quote]

I dunno. I don't trust Birk against Wilfork in that situation considering Wilfork had was aligned on the play side. That's a hard block for Birk to make; one that I doubt he would have made. Wilfork had playside leverage on him and would have destroyed him. One thing we could have done, which we did a lot last season was cutting Wilfork. Birk could have cut Wilfork and that would leave Harewood free for the linebacker.


[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1348755382' post='1169006']
But that could have been the plan is to double Wilfork. If you look at Harewood's feet, he's all set to go after Wilfork. I think its a stupid design play if that was the case. Because we seem to be running it to the outside so there would be no need to double Wilfork.

Harewood should have adjusted and picked up the linebacker. McKinnie was suppose to open up the edge, and he stuck with that plan , even though it might have been better for him to adjust as well.

I don't fault McKinnie greatly for that play, but he still blocked nobody on a 4th down.
[/quote]

I can't say it was a bad play design. We just got beat by a good blitz. If the linebacker doesn't blitz, then McKinnie picks him up on the deuce combo and Leach destroys Chung.

[Ravensfan23]

I think most people are missing what actually happened on that play. It was nothing, i repeat Nothing the Ravens did wrong on that play, the Pats just had the perfect defense called and they executed it perfectly. That happens some times when u play against a Bilichick coached defense. There was probably something presnap that alerted the defense to one of our strong tendencies, i would think it was Leach in motion.

For the people that say adjustments could or should have been made, i ask how? The LB never creeped up to the LOS, so he never showed blitz. How could Harewood or Mckinnie know he was blitzing? They couldn't've, so they followed assignment. At the snap of the ball, the Pats slanted towards the left side of the line were the play was disgned, the ILB shot the gap, and Chung took a wide angle to keep outside containment.

The only person that was able to make an adjustment was Leach because he was so far off the LOS. It was just the prefect defense for the play we had called. It happens.

Also to the people who say Mckinnie should have at least attempted a block, who do u want him to block? His man shot through the LOS and there was literary noone else there. If he reaches back and grabs Jones, then its holding and everyone would be bashing him for that. Mckinnie isn't starting because Oher is a better LT, with more upside. But more importantly we finally have someone who can actually hold down the RT position, so Oher can focus on LT

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1348760652' post='1169113']


I'm pretty sure this is what was supposed to happen. Based on the footwork of Leach, Pierce, and the blocks of the linemen it looked like it was your basic "down-down-kickout" scheme, with Leach taking the kickout on the safety. It was supposed to be an off tackle run for sure. I can't blame Leach for not blocking Chung either though. When he saw the blitzing linebacker he did the right thing by adapting his path to get him.

After reviewing the play, it was more of a good play by New England, rather than a bad play for us. No doubt it could have been executed better, but its hard as hell to run off tackle against that front, especially with the safety in the box. The blitzing linebacker really caused all of our grief in the play. I want to blame McKinnie as much as anybody, but it looks like it actually wasn't his fault. He still did a horrible job on the double team with Oher, but his responsibility was not Chung.
[/quote]

Couldn't agree more

[YYZ66]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348748993' post='1168892']
Yup; fat, slow and clueless!
[/quote]

Kind of reminds me of this guy:

[img]http://www.trailertheater.com/trailer-images/a/n/YXJaZGVnX2ZMLUk=.jpg[/img]

[PurpleReign92]

I would put McKinnie in at lead blocker fullback... 1st blocker McKinnie 2nd blocker Leach then Ray Rice following a TD after 2 successful blocking assignments..

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1348761136' post='1169124']
I dunno. I don't trust Birk against Wilfork in that situation considering Wilfork had was aligned on the play side. That's a hard block for Birk to make; one that I doubt he would have made. Wilfork had playside leverage on him and would have destroyed him. One thing we could have done, which we did a lot last season was cutting Wilfork. Birk could have cut Wilfork and that would leave Harewood free for the linebacker.
[/quote]

Yeah it didn't look right when I drew it up, and the double on Wilfork makes sense but why would they with 8 in the box? theres no cutback option because Pierce commits, also there is the problem of 8 in the box with the LOLB unaccounted for (once Dickson blocks down on the DE). It just seems like a blown up zone stretch play and yes McKinnie is the culprit.

[arnie_uk]

It def doesn't look like leach was meant to pick up mayo. He has to cut back to make that block, it looks like he was going for the safety.

[Guest Im An Ozzie Newsome Guy]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. The problem, however, is that all those one thousand words say the same thing: Embarrassing...

I mean, how is that even possible? Football is a game of inches and every millisecond makes-or-breaks a play, but, honestly, how can someone botch their assignment that badly? It's funny how Oher, Birk, Yanda and Osemele were blocking to the [b]left[/b] (while Ramon Harewood was assigned to double team the same defender Matt Birk was blocking against), but, yet, Bryant McKinnie just, randomly, blocks to the right. There's only one way to react to that decision: [url="http://s2.postimage.org/iogjxo4o9/jags.gif"]http://s2.postimage.org/iogjxo4o9/jags.gif[/url]

Look, this isn't sour grapes, but, I'm sorry, Bryant McKinnie. That's a perfect example as to why you're not starting. Yeah, at least he's made it to the NFL and it's always "controversial" when someone on the internet talks down to a NFL player, but, still: That was just lazy. I know his motivation has always been questioned, but you would think McKinnie would try to turn things around, right, especially since his job is not a guarantee and he needs to cover for his (apparent) financial troubles?

McKinnie's weight issues aside, since that was blown out of proportion, I'm happy Michael Oher is the Ravens starting left tackle. Sure, Baltimore has essentially played musical chairs with his spot on the offensive line since being drafted (and it can be argued that his natural position is right tackle), but, for now, Oher is easily the best, and only, option for the position. Case close...

[Ozzsome]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1348757543' post='1169046']


I think we can chalk this up to a good defensive play by the Pats. Ravens were expected the linebackers to shoot for the edge on an outside run. We would've picked up the first down. Instead Mayo shot the gap and our line never reacted properly.
[/quote]
I agree, it was a great playcall from the pats and even better timing by mayo, I think even if harewood would have seen him, mayo would have pushed him back and created a pile in the backfield, not really much we could have done against it

[Ozzsome]

[quote name='Chris J. Faria' timestamp='1348769279' post='1169226']
As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. The problem, however, is that all those one thousand words say the same thing: Embarrassing...

I mean, how is that even possible? Football is a game of inches and every millisecond makes-or-breaks a play, but, honestly, how can someone botch their assignment that badly? It's funny how Oher, Birk, Yanda and Osemele were blocking to the [b]left[/b] (while Ramon Harewood was assigned to double team the same defender Matt Birk was blocking against), but, yet, Bryant McKinnie just, randomly, blocks to the right. There's only one way to react to that decision: [url="http://s2.postimage.org/iogjxo4o9/jags.gif"]http://s2.postimage.org/iogjxo4o9/jags.gif[/url]

Look, this isn't sour grapes, but, I'm sorry, Bryant McKinnie. That's a perfect example as to why you're not starting. Yeah, at least he's made it to the NFL and it's always "controversial" when someone on the internet talks down to a NFL player, but, still: That was just lazy. I know his motivation has always been questioned, but you would think McKinnie would try to turn things around, right, especially since his job is not a guarantee and he needs to cover for his (apparent) financial troubles?

McKinnie's weight issues aside, since that was blown out of proportion, I'm happy Michael Oher is the Ravens starting left tackle. Sure, Baltimore has essentially played musical chairs with his spot on the offensive line since being drafted (and it can be argued that his natural position is right tackle), but, for now, Oher is easily the best, and only, option for the position. Case close...
[/quote]
I think this play has nothing to do with his work ethic on or off the field, as far as I can tell from the pictures, mckinnie was supposed to block the first LB coming his way, who would have been mayo, but the pats were blitzing both their LBs thats why he had nobody to block. he wasnt assigned to block chung as far as i can tell

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1348766831' post='1169204']
Yeah it didn't look right when I drew it up, and the double on Wilfork makes sense but why would they with 8 in the box? theres no cutback option because Pierce commits, also there is the problem of 8 in the box with the LOLB unaccounted for (once Dickson blocks down on the DE). It just seems like a blown up zone stretch play and yes McKinnie is the culprit.
[/quote]

I think that if McKinnie actually stayed on the double team there would have been more room for Pierce to work with. We had enough guys to account for everybody on that side of the ball, the blitz just beat us. And that sucks.

[RavensFanInCA]

I like all the facts presented by the people who say McKinnie wasn't at fault and I tend to agree with the explanation. What's the counter-argument right now other than he's "fat, lazy, and stupid"?

I do want to see a goal line package with Ngata and McKinnie (unbalanced no less) on the line and Leach blocking for Pierce.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1348774855' post='1169289']
I like all the facts presented by the people who say McKinnie wasn't at fault and I tend to agree with the explanation. What's the counter-argument right now other than he's "fat, lazy, and stupid"?

I do want to see a goal line package with Ngata and McKinnie (unbalanced no less) on the line and Leach blocking for Pierce.
[/quote]

Fat, slow and clueless! This is what I said....

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Brandon72' timestamp='1348745467' post='1168865']
I guess Micheal Oher is better for the protection because last year mckinnie couldnt block woodley or harrison i think Oher is quicker faster and provides better protection than mckinnie
[/quote]That's not necessarily true, McKinnie manhandled Harrison...

[jdynamite]

Good break down of that play. Wow didn't touch anyone