Ravens now ranked #27

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='SideStep77' timestamp='1348700958' post='1168456']
I don't think you can blame a ton on Cary because if the QB is given loads of time to throw, he's going to make a good throw. The D starts with the pash rush and ends with the DBs.
[/quote]

The thing is, brady and vick didnt need time to throw. Brady made 4 consecutive pass vs. cary on 1 drive which totaled to 64 yards in 2 minutes. Cary sucked. Now he needs to step up.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1348719325' post='1168752']


So are u just skipping over the Chiefs game next week? Chiefs are after the Browns game not the Cowboys...
[/quote]

Your right. But the cowboy games is the one im looking forward to. [quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1348723726' post='1168787']


I like them, but Pees has overdone it. Belichick and Brady were abusing our DB blitzes all game long.
[/quote]

It was fun seeing those two copy troy p. for the 1st week. But now i see on every single play...Use Webb on the #1 receiver!

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1348719325' post='1168752']


So are u just skipping over the Chiefs game next week? Chiefs are after the Browns game not the Cowboys...
[/quote]

Yea your right. But the game where we really show our true color has to be against the cowboys. They have the explosive offense and their D' is currently top 10.

[raybaby]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348714120' post='1168654']
I'm not gonna sit here and debate which aspect of Webb's game is more awesome. But I think he's blitzing too much. There's a point when it becomes too obvious. Pagano knew his secondary guys better and used them better. Pees seems out of touch with them.
[/quote]

This.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

We have played 3 Top 10 offenses in our first 3 games (Eagles #5, Bengals #8, Pats #9).

Not sure if those 3 are top 10 because they played against our weak D, or if they are actually top 10 offenses - but just sayin'.

[Ravensfan23]

Pagano knew his DBs, because he was our secondary coach for like 2 years before getting the DC job, so he already had a working relationship with those guys in the backend and understood their strengths and weaknesses. Pees was our LBs coach with probably explains why he's seemingly getting the best out of both Ellerbe and McClain, because he already understands who they are from working so closely to them.

As for Webbyy in the slot. That's the toughest position of any DB spot to play and Webby is the best at it on our team. Jimmy doesn't have the technique to play the slot yet, he's still developing and finding his game. With the blitzing by Webby, its not about quantity, it's about quality and timing.

Webby blitzed Brady just as much as he blitzed Dalton, yet noone seemed to have issue with it then. Why? Because it was highly succesful against Dalton. But with Brady being one of the best, it needed to be timed better. Pees is running a defense that he is unfamiliar with, so he has to get his timing down on when to do things and continue to figure out how to use players. Just like a new player.

I personally love the idea of Webby and Pollard blitzing a lot, with Ed also playing close to the LOS. But right now the defense as a whole isn't on the same page. It's gonna take time and game action to getting things back to dominant, however for all the fuss about losing JJ and Redding, the run defense is improving week to week. I think we are allowing like 3.3 ypc.

If you watch 1 winning Drive, you get a better understanding of Pees just needing to get comfortable with the D. There's a moment there when Ray has to tell Pees, "We're doing to much. Let's just line up and play D, because they can beat us man for man". Then when u listen to Pees talk on Ravens Gameplan, he admits that he gave Brady too much credit. He talked about how he waited too long to make adjustments after Brady and Bilichick made theirs.

Then i watched the show Turning Point, pretty good show btw, and they showed how Pees initial gameplan to take away Gronk and anything down the middle worked so well, Brady had to adjust and started working the back shoulder fades on the outside. Pees made his adjustments in the 3rd quarter and it really riddled brady and that offense. On the show, they used Torrey Smith's first TD as the turning point of the game and rightfully so, however, i strongly feel that Jimmy's hit on Branch was the turning point for the D. After that point, they just seemed to play with the confidence and aggressiveness that we are used to.

All in all Pees is fine, the defense is fine, we're just working out some kinks, that aren't allowing us to play as fast and aggressive as usual.

[Corvus]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348713582' post='1168643']
Pees needs to stop blitzing Webb all the time and let him lock down their #1 on the outside.
[/quote]
THIS! Glad I'm not the only one noticing this. However that's one of the few things I will gripe about. I'll stick with the Ray train of thought and see where we are late in the season. I have enough faith in our offense to pick up any defensive slack.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1348758196' post='1169057']

THIS! Glad I'm not the only one noticing this. However that's one of the few things I will gripe about. I'll stick with the Ray train of thought and see where we are late in the season. I have enough faith in our offense to pick up any defensive slack.
[/quote]

Let me ask you a question honestly. When Webby blitzed 3 times over the course of 5 plays, hit Dalton twice and getting good pressure on the other, did you come away saying thinking Webby was blitzing too much?

Imo the problem with Webby blitzing in the Pats game was Tom Brady. Brady played a great game, he was near flawless and was locked in, which makes Flacco outplaying him even better, but he was on. Once they decided to use those shorter routes, it always gave Brady a blitz beater. Also their no huddle really forced our defense into a lot of basic look, which made it easier for those guys to identify blocking assignments.

I chalk this game up to being a bad matchup for the defense early on. Much like the Bengals, the Pats offense comes at you with a lot of different formations, misdirection and short stuff. The next 3 weeks should give us a better idea of who our defense really is heading into the Texans game.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1348763381' post='1169157']
Let me ask you a question honestly. When Webby blitzed 3 times over the course of 5 plays, hit Dalton twice and getting good pressure on the other, did you come away saying thinking Webby was blitzing too much?

[b]Imo the problem with Webby blitzing in the Pats game was Tom Brady.[/b] Brady played a great game, he was near flawless and was locked in, which makes Flacco outplaying him even better, but he was on. Once they decided to use those shorter routes, it always gave Brady a blitz beater. Also their no huddle really forced our defense into a lot of basic look, which made it easier for those guys to identify blocking assignments.

I chalk this game up to being a bad matchup for the defense early on. Much like the Bengals, the Pats offense comes at you with a lot of different formations, misdirection and short stuff. The next 3 weeks should give us a better idea of who our defense really is heading into the Texans game.
[/quote]
That's it. Dalton is a second year player who's going to struggle to pick up the blitz like that. Brady on the other hand has too many receivers to go to and is too veteran for that to work. We needed Webb on Welker the entire time he was in (which we did a lot) but we also needed Cary's receiver to stop being an easy outlet whenever there's pressure. Without that and Ellerbe clearly outmatched on the inside against anyone, our D is pretty good. The fourth quarter defense was evidence that we do have the personnel to be great, it's just taking too long to figure out how.

[kassaiscool]

Linebackers really can't cover well, Cary getting picked on, Jimmy is improving but still suspect at times, and no consistent pass rush. We deserve to be this low. Hopefully we can get some more pass rush when suggs comes back, and that guy we got off the cowboys can play and get some pressure. That's our only hope, Our linebackers are pretty slow and Cary will always get picked on, you can't improve their coverage skills. The only way to stop getting burned is getting more pressure.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348764868' post='1169170']

That's it. Dalton is a second year player who's going to struggle to pick up the blitz like that. Brady on the other hand has too many receivers to go to and is too veteran for that to work. We needed Webb on Welker the entire time he was in (which we did a lot) but we also needed Cary's receiver to stop being an easy outlet whenever there's pressure. Without that and Ellerbe clearly outmatched on the inside against anyone, our D is pretty good. The fourth quarter defense was evidence that we do have the personnel to be great, it's just taking too long to figure out how.
[/quote]

But the statement was made that Pees needs to stop blitzing Webb, i thought it was meant as in overall, not just this one game. For this one game i agree, we weren't getting home with those DB blitzes, but overall, they'll be extremely successful for us imo.

I was in this game and over all 3the games very pleased with Ellerbe's play. He was clearly outmatched against Welker, but how many LBs wouldn't be. I thought Ellerbe did a good job against RBs and TEs, haven't got a chance to really break the game down, but i liked him a first glance.

I don't really think Welker hurt us that much, save for the 1defense catch for 59yards, that had more to do with the defense not being set more then anything, the back shoulder fades frustrated me more.

I agree that we've seen flashes of the Ravens still being a great defense and that's why i think Ray is saying, check back at the end of the year.

My only neg on Pees is his wanting to go to that prevent type when the offense goes in 2 minute. He did it against philly, and admitted that he shouldn't have done it right before half against Brady. However to his credit, when the game was on the line, he stayed aggressive against Brady.

[flaccopoe]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1348692690' post='1168302']
Our defensive line is the problem. Can't pass rush and stop the run when Ngatas being doubled, tripled teamed.

Cary has also done horrible.
[/quote]

Reminds me of SF. Justin Smith is always double-teamed, but their D handles the situation better than ours.

[-Truth-]

According to PFF, here are Dannell Ellerbe's stats in coverage from all 5 games in 2012, including the Playoffs:


20 targets
19 completions
255 yards
1 TD
0 INTs
QB Rating of 135.4


Dear Ravens,

Please stop. Thanks.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1348770965' post='1169241']
But the statement was made that Pees needs to stop blitzing Webb, i thought it was meant as in overall, not just this one game. For this one game i agree, we weren't getting home with those DB blitzes, but overall, they'll be extremely successful for us imo.

I was in this game and over all 3the games very pleased with Ellerbe's play. He was clearly outmatched against Welker, but how many LBs wouldn't be. I thought Ellerbe did a good job against RBs and TEs, haven't got a chance to really break the game down, but i liked him a first glance.

I don't really think Welker hurt us that much, save for the 1defense catch for 59yards, that had more to do with the defense not being set more then anything, the back shoulder fades frustrated me more.

I agree that we've seen flashes of the Ravens still being a great defense and that's why i think Ray is saying, check back at the end of the year.

My only neg on Pees is his wanting to go to that prevent type when the offense goes in 2 minute. He did it against philly, and admitted that he shouldn't have done it right before half against Brady. However to his credit, when the game was on the line, he stayed aggressive against Brady.
[/quote]
DB blitzes have and can be successful but that doesn't mean we have to blitz our best corner. I'd like to see how Jimmy does in the slot as a CB and a blitzer.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='flaccopoe' timestamp='1348771475' post='1169249']
Reminds me of SF. Justin Smith is always double-teamed, but their D handles the situation better than ours.
[/quote]
Because they're D is better than ours. They have Smith who can stop the run and pass rush. Just a beast. All their LBs can pass rush& stop the run.... Willis,Bowman,Smith,Brooks. They have good depth, and a bunch of ballhawks in their secondary. Plus Vic Fangio is a really good DC.

Our situation is a little different. Not having Suggs really hurts us, plus inexpierenced starters on defense. Mostly our LBs , McPhee, and Smith. - plus no JJ or Redding who were really key to our run defense which was key to our pass defense.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1348772065' post='1169259']
According to PFF, here are Dannell Ellerbe's stats in coverage from all 5 games in 2012, including the Playoffs:


20 targets
19 completions
255 yards
1 TD
0 INTs
QB Rating of 135.4


Dear Ravens,

Please stop. Thanks.
[/quote]
Could you post Mcclains? Only from this year.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348772235' post='1169261']

DB blitzes have and can be successful but that doesn't mean we have to blitz our best corner. I'd like to see how Jimmy does in the slot as a CB and a blitzer.
[/quote]

I understand what you mean, problem is, Webby is the best blitzer we have among the CBs, won't include BP and Ed in that.

Webby is just the man. Problem with seeing Jimmy blitz from the slot is that his game isn't really suited for the slot. Playing the slot is tough and not everyone can play it. Now i'm not saying Jimmy could never nor would he be good, however right now, with the defense really trying to find it's footing, you want play to everyones strengths as much as possible.

If we put Jimmy in the slot just to blitz, it'd be to easy to recognize, because he doesn't play the slot. I think right now everyone is searching for answers because we are 27th ranked in Defense. The secondary just has to communicate better.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1348776779' post='1169318']
I understand what you mean, problem is, Webby is the best blitzer we have among the CBs, won't include BP and Ed in that.

Webby is just the man. Problem with seeing Jimmy blitz from the slot is that his game isn't really suited for the slot. Playing the slot is tough and not everyone can play it. Now i'm not saying Jimmy could never nor would he be good, however right now, with the defense really trying to find it's footing, you want play to everyones strengths as much as possible.

If we put Jimmy in the slot just to blitz, it'd be to easy to recognize, because he doesn't play the slot. I think right now everyone is searching for answers because we are 27th ranked in Defense. The secondary just has to communicate better.
[/quote]
I remember Jimmy being used exclusively in the slot last year and he did pretty well. The only exception was against San Diego when he was on the outside because Webb was hurt.

[Ravensfan23]

Whenever we had 3 DBs on the field, Webby was in the slot the majority of the time. Yea Jimmy had a few snaps in the slot, but webby and Gorrer played the majority of the snaps on the inside.

If you have any numbers to back up Jimmy playing a lot of slot last see, i'm obviously wrong. But from what i remember and what i see from Jimmy, the slot isnt a good idea right now

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1348774963' post='1169292']
Could you post Mcclains? Only from this year.
[/quote]

No problem. Jameel McClain:

5 targets
3 completions
45 yards
0 TDs
0 INTs, 1 PD
QB Rating of 89.6

[hawkprey]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1348780525' post='1169362']
No problem. Jameel McClain:

5 targets
3 completions
45 yards
0 TDs
0 INTs, 1 PD
QB Rating of 89.6
[/quote]
Much smaller sample size but anything's better than what Ellerbe's been giving up. Even Ayanbadejo or McClellan would be better. I remember McClellan almost had a red zone pick against Philly. Almost did, but he did still break the play up. When a QB has an outlet to go to for 19 receptions on 20 attempts that is terrible.

[FerrariFan87]

I don't usually make guarantees, but I guarantee that the Ravens D will be ranked in the Top 23 by Week 4's end.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1348772065' post='1169259']
According to PFF, here are Dannell Ellerbe's stats in coverage from all 5 games in 2012, including the Playoffs:


20 targets
19 completions
255 yards
1 TD
0 INTs
QB Rating of 135.4


Dear Ravens,

Please stop. Thanks.
[/quote]

Wow, thats atrocious. Ellerbe has been good at getting to the QB though...he needs to be better or we need to find other ways to get pressure.

I am a little surprised that we havent seen much of BA in coverage. I felt like he was very good in that role last season. Maybe because he has been hurt?

Last thought: Do you think we should move to more dime packages and put Ihedigbo on the field instead of a LB? I know he isnt great in coverage, but he has to be better than that...

[ryanpatt28]

i cant believe we just gave up a 94 yard touchdown drive to a rookie qb and running back wow

[theFRANCHISE]

Please keep all discussions about the game in the [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/48774-week-4-baltimore-ravens-vs-cleveland-browns/"]Game Thread[/url] for its duration.

[Guest RBates]

Dean's defense is pathetic.......That is all.

[camthetornado]

The Ravens Defense looked good tonight as they held off the Browns. The only thing was I got nervous when the Browns put up 16 points.

[Yatagarasu]

Man, our pass rush is really horrid. Weeden had way too much time in the pocket. Pass Rusher is definitely on top of Ozzie's agenda next year. The Kruger project looks like a failure along with the Kindle project. Sad that all our 2nd round investments of pass rushers have failed.

[Ravenseconbeast]

[quote name='camthetornado' timestamp='1348804375' post='1171556']
The Ravens Defense looked good tonight as they held off the Browns. The only thing was I got nervous when the Browns put up 16 points.
[/quote]

This is the most yards weeden has got vs. anyone this season. No it doesnt didnt look good. Our secondary was bad

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1348804910' post='1171586']
Man, our pass rush is really horrid. Weeden had way too much time in the pocket. Pass Rusher is definitely on top of Ozzie's agenda next year. The Kruger project looks like a failure along with the Kindle project. [b]Sad that all our 2nd round investments of pass rushers have failed.[/b]
[/quote]

We're writing off Upshaw already?