Joe Flacco the top QB in AFC?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='terpsnation' timestamp='1348750181' post='1168902']


Using Total QBR instead of Passer Rating. Even looking at just the Passer Rating, you can see major inconsistency in his games last year.

And I in no way have a vendetta against Flacco, not exactly sure where you got that from (other than the difference between QBR and Passer Rating). I am 100% a Joe supporter.


EDIT: Will update w/ Passer Rating to make you happy
[/quote]

Its only cause that thing that ESPN TRIED throwing our way means squat! Its actually really, really dumb! Not you, the system they use...

[berad]

[quote name='terpsnation' timestamp='1348751468' post='1168924']
Just comparing it quickly to Tom Brady's first 8 games last year:

Week 1 @ MIA: 121.6
Week 2 vs SD: 135.7
Week 3 @ BUF: 86.1
Week 4 @ OAK: 100.1
Week 5 vs NYJ: 100.7
Week 6 vs DAL: 82.3
Week 8 at PIT: 101.8
Week 9 vs NYG: 75.4

Seems far more consistent above 100, and his bad games are no where near as low as Joe's.

Need a mathematician in here to crunch these numbers and give us a square root, or variance, or whatever.
[/quote]

Most of those defenses are putrid, though...

If you break down Flacco's numbers against the passing Ds he faced, he actually performed above average (relative to what the defenses had allowed)

[1/28/01]

Flacco is not Brady...stop with the comparisons!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!!

[berad]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348751739' post='1168928']
Flacco is not Brady...stop with the comparisons!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!!
[/quote]

LOL that's another thing, most everyone looks worse compared to Tom Brady

[A Fish Called Yanda]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348751739' post='1168928']
Flacco is not Brady...stop with the comparisons!!!! Ahhhhhh!!!!
[/quote]

We're talking about top QB in the AFC - it would be idiotic not to compare him to Brady when Brady is in fact, in the AFC.

[raybaby]

The thing that gets lost in the Joe was inconsistent last year talk is that we were the most predictable offense in the nfl. There are stats to back it up. He was in a situation where it was hard to be consistent. His numbers had never been that up and down before.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='terpsnation' timestamp='1348752162' post='1168932']


We're talking about top QB in the AFC - it would be idiotic not to compare him to Brady when Brady is in fact, in the AFC.
[/quote]

Fair enough... But you're talking about last years stats/numbers in comparison to Flaccos. I would assume we should talking about current play.

[A Fish Called Yanda]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348752468' post='1168942']
Fair enough... But you're talking about last years stats/numbers in comparison to Flaccos. I would assume we should talking about current play.
[/quote]

Things look brighter:

Joe Flacco QBR and Opponent Defense Ranking:
Week 1 vs CIN: 128.4 - 29
Week 2 at PHI: 66.8 - 5
Week 3 vs NE: 117.7 - 14

Tom Brady QBR and Opponent Defense Ranking:
Week 1 at TEN: 117.1 - 31
Week 2 vs ARI: 79.6 - 10
Week 3 at BAL: 101.2 - 27


On average, the defenses we've played are ranked 6 positions higher than those NE has played, yet Joe has a QBR of 104.3 compared to Tom's 99.3. Brady also had the week 2 blip that Flacco had, both of which were against highly ranked defenses.

[flynismo]

[quote name='raybaby' timestamp='1348751036' post='1168919']
Passer rating can be misleading as well. The Arizona game he had a 70 something rating because he had 1 INT to no TDs. But Torrey lost the ball on the INT and we ran for TDs on the 1 yard line that were set up by the pass.
[/quote]

No doubt that QBR is a steaming pile of monkey feces (nobody in their right minds would rely solely on that to prove or disprove any kind of argument -- other than to prove what a steaming pile of monkey feces it is ), but regardless, it does attempt to measure performance by way of compiling stats and a little black magic thrown in. With that in mind, if we keep in mind that every QB is subject to the whims of QBR, we can still compare how consistently a player performs from week to week.

In other words, we aren't using QBR to determine how good Flacco is, we are using it to gauge how consistent he played (and I realize that is why you mentioned the AZ game and the underlying point, but just roll with me here)

[CapoRocky]

Some people are thinking that we stall on the short week and fall short of our high-powered offensive showings of the 2 home games so far. I think that we totally destroy the Browns by 20+ points.

[raybaby]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1348753240' post='1168956']
No doubt that QBR is a steaming pile of monkey feces (nobody in their right minds would rely solely on that to prove or disprove any kind of argument -- other than to prove what a steaming pile of monkey feces it is ), but regardless, it does attempt to measure performance by way of compiling stats and a little black magic thrown in. With that in mind, if we keep in mind that every QB is subject to the whims of QBR, we can still compare how consistently a player performs from week to week.

In other words, we aren't using QBR to determine how good Flacco is, we are using it to gauge how consistent he played (and I realize that is why you mentioned the AZ game and the underlying point, but just roll with me here)
[/quote]

Lol I got ya. I just dont like the argument by itself. Just like I dont for Ryan vs Flacco. There is more to it. I'll let you guys carry on though lol

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1348751164' post='1168921']


Back on topic, I think that if you look at the numbers, Flacco wasn't as inconsistent as people made him out to be last year.
However, that isn't necessarily a good thing either, because his QBR was mediocre fairly consistently
[/quote]We typically bury people that only talk stats when it comes to Joe. So it's kind of a nice sign that we can actually use stats as an arguing point now. But to get to the point. From week 11 to now, Joe has been consistent. Including the playoffs when it comes to QBR. He's only had 2 dips.

[flynismo]

[quote name='CalvinSmoke' timestamp='1348759004' post='1169078']
We typically bury people that only talk stats when it comes to Joe. So it's kind of a nice sign that we can actually use stats as an arguing point now. But to get to the point. From week 11 to now, Joe has been consistent. Including the playoffs when it comes to QBR. He's only had 2 dips.
[/quote]

Absolutely. There are / were so many external factors involved when evaluating Flacco that if you relied solely on stats lime so many people do, you would not be looking at the bigger picture when it comes to him.
Now all of a sudden, guys arent dropping very catchable passes, the OL is protecting him better than they were and he is being given much more freedom. Not surprisingly, we are seeing what he is truly capable of now, and it shows up in the stat lines that so many people hold so dearly. Love it!

[3-4ravdef509]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1348747877' post='1168885']
What do you mean? That Pete Prisco wrote that after the 2008 draft? Yes and that clown really works for CBS Sports. Yea, I don't know how he got that job either.
[/quote]

Wow....lol.
I shudder to think if we had waited to grab Flacco later, and had gotten someone like Henne....gjlsk;jtgioagr

[CalvinSmoke]

[quote name='3-4ravdef509' timestamp='1348769560' post='1169228']


Wow....lol.
I shudder to think if we had waited to grab Flacco later, and had gotten someone like Henne....gjlsk;jtgioagr
[/quote] There were a few decent QB's later in that draft. Matt Flyn, Dennis Dixon. None of them better than Joe Cool...
Though I wish we would have drafted John David Booty, i mean come on. Who wouldn't want to see that name on a Ravens Roster. Booty to Rice!!

[Finally]

It is funny because we had the mirror image of this thread on the Falcons board a few days ago.

It has been awhile since I visited. Flacco is really tearing it up this year so far. I didn't get to see the entire game last night but what I did see he looked like an improved version of himself.

[rlh445]

I wish everyone: the media, Ravens fans, Falcons fans, some idiot blogger I read today trying to say Flacco's been getting a free ride with his defense, etc., would all just shut the front door about Joe Flacco. I've made some sarcastic trolly posts about Flacco just for fun, but I truly believe there's not much else to say about him. He's good, he continually gets the job done and no other quarterback gets this much heat for being as good as he is. It doesn't even make sense. Matt Ryan has poor showings continually in the playoffs and yet nobody ever asks if he's elite. Matt Stafford has a pretty good team in Detroit but just isn't quite there yet but nobody bothers him about it. I'm sick and tired of people highlighting Joe's successes and trying to take them away. Maybe the media should focus on other things, like how our schedule is always harder than the Patsies.

[Finally]

Actually the media this year has been complimentary of Flacco. I know the article, I read it too. The blogger used some arbitrary stats to make his point. If you work the numbers hard enough you can find fault with just about every player.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1348856600' post='1172399']
It is funny because we had the mirror image of this thread on the Falcons board a few days ago.

It has been awhile since I visited. Flacco is really tearing it up this year so far. I didn't get to see the entire game last night but what I did see he looked like an improved version of himself.
[/quote]
Mirror image as in "Joe Flacco, the best left handed QB in the AFC"?

[Finally]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348857715' post='1172420']

Mirror image as in "Joe Flacco, the best left handed QB in the AFC"?
[/quote]

lol. At least you don't have Vick trolls in your thread. I swear when he gets out of football he could start a cult.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1348857989' post='1172424']


lol. At least you don't have Vick trolls in your thread. I swear when he gets out of football he could start a cult.
[/quote]oh we do, we do. Go see the flacco haters thread. It's all about Vick vs flacco from about page 5

[PolishRifle]

The Steelers still have a top 10 defense. That's really depressing.

[codizzle]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1348858057' post='1172428']
The Steelers still have a top 10 defense. That's really depressing.
[/quote]

Defensive Coordinator

[1/28/01]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1348857989' post='1172424']


lol. At least you don't have Vick trolls in your thread. I swear when he gets out of football he could start a cult.
[/quote]

Oh Lord, you havent looked around here hard enough! Vick is a pathetic QB and he's brought up by a select few around here constantly.

[PolishRifle]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1348858404' post='1172440']
Defensive Coordinator
[/quote]

I still hope the Jets fire Rex and we can get him back as our DC. It probably won't happen, but it is a nice fantasy. Come on Tebow do your work. XD

[1/28/01]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1348859109' post='1172453']


I still hope the Jets fire Rex and we can get him back as our DC. It probably won't happen, but it is a nice fantasy. Come on Tebow do your work. XD
[/quote]

As long as the NFL allows muzzles!

[Finally]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348858857' post='1172451']


Oh Lord, you havent looked around here hard enough! Vick is a pathetic QB and he's brought up by a select few around here constantly.
[/quote]

I stand corrected and you have my sympathies. If it were up to me Vick and elite would be banned words.

By the way I looked it up because it is one of my favorite stats on judging a passer. The Ravens were ranked 7th last year on converting 3rd downs. Defenses don't help you accomplish that, if anything it makes a defense look better than it is.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1348859345' post='1172460']


I stand corrected and you have my sympathies. If it were up to me Vick and elite would be banned words.

By the way I looked it up because it is one of my favorite stats on judging a passer. The Ravens were ranked 7th last year on converting 3rd downs. Defenses don't help you accomplish that, if anything it makes a defense look better than it is.
[/quote]we are doing horrible this year, 21st so far

[Finally]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1348859518' post='1172463']
we are doing horrible this year, 21st so far
[/quote]

I don't know if that has been updated for tnf but even still it is a weak stat with so little game data. You have a loss in there and a tough game with the Browns. I'd bet by midseason you will be back up top.

The point is extending plays chews up the clock and keeps the defense fresh.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Finally' timestamp='1348860107' post='1172479']


I don't know if that has been updated for tnf but even still it is a weak stat with so little game data. You have a loss in there and a tough game with the Browns. I'd bet by midseason you will be back up top.

The point is extending plays chews up the clock and keeps the defense fresh.
[/quote]yea, were bottom 1/4 league on time of possession as well. We've had too many third and longs