Thoughts on next year's WR corps

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1349105118' post='1174757']


The times that he completely disappears, he is lined up on the outside, running routes and CBs know he doesn't have deep speed (has never had deep speed even at FSU) they use the sidelines as an extra defender because he has limited space to work with, thats why it's so annoying to see him lined up outside running 10 yard curl, or 7 yard out route when the defender can sit on it... When Boldin lines up or motions to the slot he can now have option routes with spacing to make moves across the middle.

* Abuses bad corners is the key thing here that's why teams rotate their top WRs across the line now to create those mismatches with "bad corners". The lions are tired of Calvin Johnson getting triple-team blank coverage on the outside so they have been lining him up in the slot more and more this season. Victor Cruz/ Wes Welker are constantly beating a 3rd corner until teams get sick of it and shuffle their corners around or move a safety in for extra help which then opens up deeper routes.
[/quote]
I don't think anyone here has said they want Boldin gone. I haven't read every post with a fine-tooth comb, though, so maybe I am wrong. I am under the impression that it was speculated that Boldin could find himself with the short straw next off season, which albeit still far off is still a legitimate question.

I can speak for myself by saying I love Boldin's play, think he's a terrific player for us and does a lot for us and is a big part of our offense. I would be delusional, however, if I believe he was immune to being cut next year or even traded. In fact, if I wanted I could speculate even further and say the Ravens are attempting to trade Boldin this year and that is why his role has been limited, but I won't bother (lol).

The bottom-line is it's not a bad idea to get rid of Boldin but doing so would be a problem unless our guys behind him are really ready to succeed. The Patriots get rid of players who are at the tail end of their career while they still have some value. Perhaps, we can argue, it would be wise of us to do the same.

In the meantime, I will enjoy watching Anquan Boldin play for this team every snap he gets. I love him as a player and think he's a great person.

[ravensfan160]

For all the people voting down this thread, we did cut both Heap and Mason in the same offseason to save money with far fewer options on the roster to replace them.

I've been saying for awhile now that Boldin looks to be a likely cap casualty next year. It's not that I don't like him but when your QB's cap number is likely to double and your RB's cap number increases ten fold you have to make cuts somewhere.

The fact that Doss is getting some playing time this years tells me they are trying to see what they have in Doss incase he needs to replace Boldin next year. The cap room has to come from somewhere and we are really deep at WR.

[ravens88]

cap casualties are players who can be replaced effectively maybe losing 15% of the perfromance but saving millions. Boldin is not that maybe extend him to free some money up but cutting him is not something i see us doing. he is the perfect reciever for what we do.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1349103152' post='1174735']
I don't think Boldin has declined at all, I think the fact that he didn't reach a 1,000 yards receiving misleads people into thinking Boldin has declined. Facts are that since we have picked Boldin up from the Cardinals Cam Cameron basically plugged him into more of a Traditional #1 WR role and he has moved him around as much, in Arizona Boldin often lined up in the slot, or motioned to the slot pre-snap, or motioned out of the slot giving causing defenses to constantly adjust and shuffle corners ( Boldin was lining up in the slot as a top WR before Wes Welker and before Victor Cruz exploded also.)

I found it ironic that one of the few games Boldin was used correctly was last year versus the Cardinals when he was motioned all over the field and took over that game for us.

The last 2 seasons Boldin was on pace for 1,000 yard seasons, but for whatever reason in the last 3 weeks of both seasons Boldin was rarely utilized.. His average yards per catch has been higher these last 2 seasons but he doesn't have as many receptions.

It's funny how some fans are already thinking about how to replace Boldin but last season there was such an outcry when Mason and Heap were not re-signed.
[/quote]Boldin didn't reach a 1000 yards last year because he had surgery that took him out for a couple of weeks.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1348469745' post='1164909']
I think he ends up taking Boldins spot. Don't know if it's next year or the year after. They might ask him to take a cut though. I think Boldin has a course games where he goes off.
[/quote]

This is probably more realistic. Imagine cutting Boldin and then having to see him. He'd beast on us like he did AZ last year hahaha. No way man. Keep him, maybe ask him to take a reduced salary. Get rid of dead weight like David Reed.

[The Raven]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1349103152' post='1174735']
I don't think Boldin has declined at all, I think the fact that he didn't reach a 1,000 yards receiving misleads people into thinking Boldin has declined. Facts are that since we have picked Boldin up from the Cardinals Cam Cameron basically plugged him into more of a Traditional #1 WR role and he has moved him around as much, in Arizona Boldin often lined up in the slot, or motioned to the slot pre-snap, or motioned out of the slot giving causing defenses to constantly adjust and shuffle corners ( Boldin was lining up in the slot as a top WR before Wes Welker and before Victor Cruz exploded also.)

I found it ironic that one of the few games Boldin was used correctly was last year versus the Cardinals when he was motioned all over the field and took over that game for us.

The last 2 seasons Boldin was on pace for 1,000 yard seasons, but for whatever reason in the last 3 weeks of both seasons Boldin was rarely utilized.. His average yards per catch has been higher these last 2 seasons but he doesn't have as many receptions.

It's funny how some fans are already thinking about how to replace Boldin but last season there was such an outcry when Mason and Heap were not re-signed.
[/quote]

I disagree with you somewhat, especially in regards to giving Cam the onus of the blame for the drop off in Boldin's production. Now that we have Jacoby Jones, we actually have a competent enough receiver to put on the outside while we shift Boldin inside.

I think that Cam has used him incorrectly at times, but overall Boldin has been used the way he should be. I have actually sat down and analyzed the route combinations that Cam uses, and Boldin was sent over the middle more than fans will realize. The problem is he didn't have anyone to help get coverage off of him. The fact is he is a one dimensional receiver that any good defensive coordinator can eliminate. A cover two zone defense with a corner pressing Boldin eliminates him from the game, more time than not. But now that we have Torrey, Jacoby, and the tight ends, its not that easy to take him out.

Also, he was on pace for over 1000 yards last year, until he got injured. He would have gotten 1000 barring injury.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1349123541' post='1174989']
This is probably more realistic. Imagine cutting Boldin and then having to see him. He'd beast on us like he did AZ last year hahaha. No way man. Keep him, maybe ask him to take a reduced salary. Get rid of dead weight like David Reed.
[/quote]Cutting a rookie salary like David Reed wouldn't even make a dent in our cap.

[RavensDE]

Boldin is expensive and if his production isn't where they expect it to be he would be the first to understand that he would be cut. While we can only see if he caught the ball my understanding of the Raven's evaluations is that they take more into account than just plain receptions. They watch the tape to see if he was doing what he was supposed to be doing and if he executed the play, made the blocks etc.

In any case Jacoby isn't getting an extension. We paid him for two years and we hope our other recievers are ready by then.

Doss looks like he is most certainly being groomed for a similar position to Boldin but I don't think its as cut and dry as this guy will replace that guy. We develop all of our recievers and we keep the overall best players. If we are in a cap situation where someone must go and Boldin is sitting there with players who are are of near his ability for cheaper than that may dictate a move but if he's playing well and producing for himself and others its not a forgone conclusion that he is cut. We like to honor our free agaent contracts if the players hold up their end. That said Ozzie and Moriarty will always do what its in the teams best interest. (So yeah odds are they cut him)

The question is do Doss, Williams, Thompson, and Streeter develop into real honest to god players? If they turn into real bonified threats than Boldin will certainly be gone because we have to get that young ability on the field. Now if thats the case Jacoby Jones won't get any kind of extension or be resigned either.

[nk02442]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349104535' post='1174752']
Boldin has declined. It's very evident that he doesnt have the quickness he once possessed. Q was never a burner but in his AZ days he was a more explosive player. He still has great hands and he abuses bad corners but there are times when he completely disappears.
[/quote]

has nothing to do with him. It was to do with the routes. When you throw the ball in coverage you arent going to get YAC. Its all on Joe and Cam to get him the ball on the right routes.

[rmw10]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1349132353' post='1175077']
has nothing to do with him. It was to do with the routes. When you throw the ball in coverage you arent going to get YAC. Its all on Joe and Cam to get him the ball on the right routes.
[/quote]

He's not getting separation, which causes for 0 YAC. It's not the routes that are the issue. He's getting slow, and it's inevitable. He's on the decline. I'm not advocating cutting him just yet, but it's not all on scheme and such. The first 3 games, he pretty much disappeared. The first signs of life from him came against a depleted Browns secondary.

I really do like Boldin, but I'm sensible enough to put that personal affinity aside. If there's someone that can do what he does at this point in his career at a much lower cost, he'll be cut. It's a business.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1349132353' post='1175077']
has nothing to do with him. It was to do with the routes. When you throw the ball in coverage you arent going to get YAC. Its all on Joe and Cam to get him the ball on the right routes.
[/quote]

Well, I strongly disagree. It's clearly not on Joe and Cam. Boldin struggles to get separation which has nothing to do with routes. He just doesnt possess the same quickness he used to.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349104535' post='1174752']
Boldin has declined. It's very evident that he doesnt have the quickness he once possessed. Q was never a burner but in his AZ days he was a more explosive player. He still has great hands and he abuses bad corners but there are times when he completely disappears.
[/quote]

What I see is that Boldin immediately declined by a large amount his first year here. Did that mean that suddenly he wasn't as good anymore? We shouldn't be so quick to judge his ability as the reason for declined production. Please be aware that 131 yards by Q this past week is a big game for any receiver during anytime in their career.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1349165159' post='1175364']


What I see is that Boldin immediately declined by a large amount his first year here. Did that mean that suddenly he wasn't as good anymore? We shouldn't be so quick to judge his ability as the reason for declined production. Please be aware that 131 yards by Q this past week is a big game for any receiver during anytime in their career.
[/quote]

I'm not saying Boldin isnt good. He still plays at a fairly high level and like I said, he really abuses bad corners like he did against the Browns. However, his lack of speed is also a limiting factor.

[The Raven]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1349165159' post='1175364']
What I see is that [b]Boldin immediately declined by a large amount his first year here. Did that mean that suddenly he wasn't as good anymore?[/b] We shouldn't be so quick to judge his ability as the reason for declined production. Please be aware that 131 yards by Q this past week is a big game for any receiver during anytime in their career.
[/quote]

Well... yeah. If Boldin declined by a large amount, then by definition of the word "declined" he's not as good anymore.

Its obvious that having Fitz across from him gave him a lot of help getting open. Having a QB like Warner definitely helps too. When he came here, I don't think he declined, rather that he was finally exposed as not being a true number one WR anymore. Like I mentioned earlier, its very easy to take Boldin out of a game.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1349187958' post='1175446']
Well... yeah. If Boldin declined by a large amount, then by definition of the word "declined" he's not as good anymore.

Its obvious that having Fitz across from him gave him a lot of help getting open. Having a QB like Warner definitely helps too. When he came here, I don't think he declined, rather that he was finally exposed as not being a true number one WR anymore. Like I mentioned earlier, its very easy to take Boldin out of a game.
[/quote]
I believe the fact that Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Tandon Doss are ascending upward places Q at the greatest risk of being replaceable more so than seeing a decline in his ability. When targeted he shows that his ability remains in tact but there are rising young stars on the scene.

[The Raven]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1349190385' post='1175472']
I believe the fact that Torrey Smith, Jacoby Jones, and Tandon Doss are ascending upward places Q at the greatest risk of being replaceable more so than seeing a decline in his ability. When targeted he shows that his ability remains in tact but there are rising young stars on the scene.
[/quote]

I agree with this. Boldin will not be a victim of his declining performance, rather the improvement of the other receivers. His price tag will make him more prone to being replaced as well.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1349128892' post='1175038']
Cutting a rookie salary like David Reed wouldn't even make a dent in our cap.
[/quote]

Yeah but the roster spot is a commodity.

[GrimCoconut]

David Reed is on IR and does not count against the roster unless we cut someone to bring him back. Unlikely. Unless Boldin ends up traded by the time Reed is off IR or some other WR goes, I see Reed being cut.

I like Boldin. Still don't think he will be here next year. Cap casualty, as others have said. Doss even has a front page article about him looking good. That's meant to be a tad sarcastic but anyway Doss HAS looked good this year.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1349206584' post='1175644']
Yeah but the roster spot is a commodity.
[/quote]Keeping Boldin has nothing to do with his roster spot.

[Bravens292]

Reed is as good as gone next year with the developing talent of our WR core now. he keeps getting injured and jones/thompson are capable of the returner roles as well.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Any good free agent WR hitting the market this coming offseason? I love boldin, he plays like a raven and he still has game left in him, but we signed him to be a standout #1 guy. At times he is that guy, but there are times he also disappears. If he takes a pay cut its a no brainer, but for the money hes due to make we need a consistent legitimate #1 guy. Torrey may step into that role and we could use that money to shore up other areas of need.

But best case scenerio is he agrees to take a pay cut to stay with us, and instead of adding free agents we continue to let young guys develop and step up and build through the draft.

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

Boldin's cap hit with be $7 mill next year.

FA WR of interest for upcoming offseason:

-Malcolm Floyd
-Mike Wallace
-Dwayne Bowe
-Wes Welker (personally no interest)
-Greg Jennings
-Victor Cruz

My source was a bit dated so 1 or 2 may have been extended but just figured I'd post it in case anyone was wondering

[BloodRaven]

I think we're going to lowball Boldin as a slot WR and he's going to leave for a spread offense, they seem to think he'd be a good fit in New England.

[PuRock]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1349280085' post='1176261']
Boldin's cap hit with be $7 mill next year.

FA WR of interest for upcoming offseason:

-Malcolm Floyd
-Mike Wallace
-Dwayne Bowe
-Wes Welker (personally no interest)
-Greg Jennings
-Victor Cruz

My source was a bit dated so 1 or 2 may have been extended but just figured I'd post it in case anyone was wondering
[/quote]

The only one on that list that has been extended is Floyd, he signed a multi-year deal in September. Also to add to that list is Danny Amendola. If you want a possession/slot receiver, he's a great candidate. But the Rams really like him.

[rmw10]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1349280085' post='1176261']
Boldin's cap hit with be $7 mill next year.

FA WR of interest for upcoming offseason:

-Malcolm Floyd
-Mike Wallace
-Dwayne Bowe
-Wes Welker (personally no interest)
-Greg Jennings
-Victor Cruz

My source was a bit dated so 1 or 2 may have been extended but just figured I'd post it in case anyone was wondering
[/quote]

Bowe is very intriguing. I think he could be an animal if he had a QB that could actually throw the ball.

[redrum52]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1349281064' post='1176274']


Bowe is very intriguing. I think he could be an animal if he had a QB that could actually throw the ball.
[/quote]

Bowe is intriguing but we need to resign Flacco. Hers contract is up soon as well as is Kruger at the end of this year. Torrey will be coming up in 2 years and I do t see him going anywhere. I see us may e using a pick on a top wr one year or moving forward with what we have. Either that or reducing Boldins pay. I see Doss as our future Boldin and maybe having Thompson as our 3rd wr if we don't resign Jacoby when his contract expires. We still have LaQuan and who knows how Streeter develops. Would be nice to see us use a first under on a top Wr talent in one of the upcoming drafts though not a necessity. If we could get a a 6'3 big bodied guy who can jump I see Flaccos numbers going through the roof. Off topic but did anyone know Torrey could go up and get the ball like he does? I had seen the clip of him dunking but his ability to high point it seems to keep getting better. Jacoby does a good job as well.

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1349279662' post='1176254']
Any good free agent WR hitting the market this coming offseason? I love boldin, he plays like a raven and he still has game left in him, but we signed him to be a standout #1 guy. At times he is that guy, but there are times he also disappears. If he takes a pay cut its a no brainer, but for the money hes due to make we need a consistent legitimate #1 guy. Torrey may step into that role and we could use that money to shore up other areas of need.

But best case scenerio is he agrees to take a pay cut to stay with us, and instead of adding free agents we continue to let young guys develop and step up and build through the draft.
[/quote]Torrey Smith already is our #1 guy. He gets double covered almost every week. The only good FA receivers that I know of are Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, and Welker; and I honestly don't see us getting any of those guys.

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1349283162' post='1176292']
Bowe is intriguing but we need to resign Flacco. Hers contract is up soon as well as is Kruger at the end of this year. Torrey will be coming up in 2 years and I do t see him going anywhere. I see us may e using a pick on a top wr one year or moving forward with what we have. Either that or reducing Boldins pay. I see Doss as our future Boldin and maybe having Thompson as our 3rd wr if we don't resign Jacoby when his contract expires. We still have LaQuan and who knows how Streeter develops. Would be nice to see us use a first under on a top Wr talent in one of the upcoming drafts though not a necessity. If we could get a a 6'3 big bodied guy who can jump I see Flaccos numbers going through the roof. Off topic but did anyone know Torrey could go up and get the ball like he does? I had seen the clip of him dunking but his ability to high point it seems to keep getting better. Jacoby does a good job as well.
[/quote]Yeah he did it a lot in college. Its funny cause hardly anyone knows about his jumping ability and whenever he got compared to Julio Jones in their rookie seasons; that is often the reason why people say Jones will have a higher ceiling, since he can "go up and got the ball". However Smith jumps a 41 inch vertical jump which is higher than guys like A.J. Green, Julio Jones, and Sidney Rice. He has an enormous ceiling.

[CorvusCorax]

While this topic is definitely worth discussing, I think it's still too early. Let's see how the rest of the season pans out. There's still lots of football left.

[The Raven]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1349280095' post='1176262']
I think we're going to lowball Boldin as a slot WR and he's going to leave for a spread offense, they seem to think he'd be a good fit in New England.
[/quote]

Boldin would be lethal in that offense, even at his age.