Thoughts on next year's WR corps

[Bazooka Joe]

There's something about Tandon Doss. I don't see him as a future 1 or 2 (and with our young talent don't need that from Doss) but he's a killer slot guy for the future.

I say we should stand pat and bring back the same corp along with Streeter. That's right, 7 WRs in 2013.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1348878320' post='1172733']
There's something about Tandon Doss. I don't see him as a future 1 or 2 (and with our young talent don't need that from Doss) but he's a killer slot guy for the future.

I say we should stand pat and bring back the same corp along with Streeter. That's right, 7 WRs in 2013.
[/quote]Exactly. Tandon is going to be dominate in the slot.... the position Boldin currently occupies. Jacoby is the outside threat along with Torrey while Boldin plays on the inside. With Boldin taking a hefty paycheck the FO might cut ties and give the young kid a shot to prove why he we drafted him. We won't know what he has until he gets an opportunity.

[rmw10]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1348962004' post='1173244']
Exactly. Tandon is going to be dominate in the slot.... the position Boldin currently occupies. Jacoby is the outside threat along with Torrey while Boldin plays on the inside. With Boldin taking a hefty paycheck the FO might cut ties and give the young kid a shot to prove why he we drafted him. We won't know what he has until he gets an opportunity.
[/quote]

I think they'll continue to give him some more opportunities as the season goes along to see if he can fill Boldin's role for 1/10th of the cost essentially. If he can prove himself, it's likely that Boldin will be gone. As much as I like him, it's a business, and we can't afford to pay everyone.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1348962775' post='1173249']
I think they'll continue to give him some more opportunities as the season goes along to see if he can fill Boldin's role for 1/10th of the cost essentially. If he can prove himself, it's likely that Boldin will be gone. As much as I like him, it's a business, and we can't afford to pay everyone.
[/quote]If you read any one of my posts (I feel like a broken record) you'd know I totally agree with you. I'm a fan of Doss and think he'll definitely be up to the task. He was a monster at IU.

I'm digg'n the avatar by the way.

[Bazooka Joe]

I'm just not as anxious as everyone else to be rid of Boldin. On the other hand I can't remember having this much young WR talent ever.

I mean we held onto Mason for a longtime because we didn't have much else behind him until Boldin got here.

I would restructure Boldin and see if that fits at first before just cutting him. Boldin is a Raven and is a strong leader on offense.

[rmw10]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1348963353' post='1173251']
If you read any one of my posts (I feel like a broken record) you'd know I totally agree with you. I'm a fan of Doss and think he'll definitely be up to the task. He was a monster at IU.

I'm digg'n the avatar by the way.
[/quote]

To be fair, I didn't feel like going through all of the pages haha. I'm a big fan of Doss as well, and I think he can fill that slot role pretty well with his hands.

I love Boldin, but not at $6 million and 32 years old. If Doss doesn't prove himself and we want to restructure Boldin, fine by me.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1348484525' post='1165010']
I have to disagree. Torrey has been matched up with the opposing teams best corner with safety help over top. Teams are scared to death of Torrey's speed and have gone to great lengths to stop him. BB was doubling Torrey for a majority of the game last night and he was still making plays. The speed Torrey brings stretches out the secondaries and opens it up underneath for the slot receivers like Boldin and the tight ends.

I have to think that [u][b]Boldin benefits more from Torrey than Torrey benefits from Boldin[/b][/u]. And that comes back to my main point. We have guys like Doss on the roster with sure hands that can run in the slot. But we don't have another proven big bodied deep threat like Jacoby to play opposite Torrey. If we want to open up the intermediate passing game we need to have legitimate deep threats on the outside and that translates to retaining Jacoby long term even if it is at the expense of cutting Q.
[/quote]

imo, boldin benefits from both Torrey's and Jacoby's speed on the outside! gotta give boldin his props cause he was ballin' thursday night!

~Mili

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1348965412' post='1173267']
imo, boldin benefits from both Torrey's and Jacoby's speed on the outside! gotta give boldin his props cause he was ballin' thursday night!

~Mili
[/quote]Amen brother.

[Ravenslifer]

I'm happy with the receivers the way they are now. If someone were to fall in the draft, I wouldn't mind picking a guy up since Q and Jacoby would both be in their final year barring an extension, but the receiving corps should only be better with young guys having another year in the system.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='Ravenslifer' timestamp='1348972845' post='1173327']
I'm happy with the receivers the way they are now. If someone were to fall in the draft, I wouldn't mind picking a guy up since Q and Jacoby would both be in their final year barring an extension, but the receiving corps should only be better with young guys having another year in the system.
[/quote]
Didn't Jacoby sign a 3 year?

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1348980075' post='1173366']
Didn't Jacoby sign a 3 year?
[/quote]It's a 2 year deal.

[Yum Chickens]

Wait why are you suggesting dropping Boldin? So we can go back to having 2 good WRs? I'm happy with 3 right now with Tandon and Laquan backing up.

[SecretAgentMan]

Lets wait for the season to be over before we talk about this. We all know that Torrey, Streeter, and Tandon are going to be unstoppable, Jacoby and Boldin just make it better.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='Yum Chickens' timestamp='1348986707' post='1173397']
Wait why are you suggesting dropping Boldin? So we can go back to having 2 good WRs? I'm happy with 3 right now with Tandon and Laquan backing up.
[/quote]Maybe you should read some of the posts.... ITS ABOUT THE MONEY. We all love Boldin but acknowledge that having a receiver demanding his kind of salary to be 2nd or 3rd on the depth chart is a luxury the team can't afford.

[Malkavian Raven]

[font=times new roman,times,serif][i]I think a lot of the reason Q hasn't had that great of a season thus far was due to all of the uncertainty created by the replacement officials. I find it hard to believe it was only coincidental that Q's biggest game this year comes the same night the regular officials return.[/i][/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif][i]Q was getting mauled out there during the first three games.[/i][/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif][i]Now that order has been restored, watch for Q to make a case to remain our #1 receiver. Torrey isn't going anywhere for a long time (barring serious injury). Jones has made an immediate ROI (return on investment).[/i][/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif][i]As for Doss, I have to pull for the guy since he was a Hoosier.[/i][/font]

[font=times new roman,times,serif][i]~ M[/i][/font]

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='Yum Chickens' timestamp='1348986707' post='1173397']
Wait why are you suggesting dropping Boldin? So we can go back to having 2 good WRs? I'm happy with 3 right now with Tandon and Laquan backing up.
[/quote]

Money. I think he makes somewhere around 8 million dollars a year. Although if Cam puts him in the slot more and he beasts out, I don't mind keeping him. But he definitely hasn't produced like he did in AZ - part of that is scheme, part of it is no Fitz, and I'm sure part of it is aging. In any case though, do you continue to pay a guy like a number 1 receiver when you have two other guys who could be good starters (Jones, Smith) who together make less than he does? Ultimately that's something the front office will decide, but if Q continues to be employed outside the numbers where he is not as effective, I'll continue to question why we are paying him as much as we are. Now in my opinion, I'd love our base formation to be a 3 WR set with Torrey and Jacoby outside and Q in the slot - I think that would be an incredible formation.

[arnie_uk]

Cutting or asking boldin to take a pay cut could be one of the hardest decisions the front office has had to make, yes harder than heap or mason, because he is better than both are at the point this question arose, and his leadership appears to have paid dividends for our young WR corps, also the fact we have seen glimpses of these younger players, Thompson, doss etc, we don't know if they can do it for a year. If they can't our offense will be back to the way it was last year.

[I AM LEGEND]

I have a love hate relationship with Boldin....

I hate how he looks like he's a TE playing WR...

I hate how he can let no name CB shut him down..

I hate how he gets virtually no separation...

I hate how he has a good amount of 1-3 catch games..

But with all that said Boldin has a knack to come up very big in certain spots...he quietly put up good numbers or plays in both Pitt games last year and kept the ball moving down the field late in the AFC championship game...and just when u think he's done for the game he puts up big numbers in Thursdays second half..

It's just to inconsistent to see us bringing him back as our top receiver for that money...

I don't think Doss or JJ is the answer tho..I think part of the reason JJ is doing so well for us is he doesnt have the pressure of being a full time #2 liKe he was in Houston..

I'd love to keep this current WR corp/substitution pattern for at least another year if Boldin takes a cut...maybe letting Doss get some of Boldin's snaps to see if he's capable of doing the job just in case we can't keep anquan..

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1349007277' post='1173431']
Cutting or asking boldin to take a pay cut could be one of the hardest decisions the front office has had to make, yes harder than heap or mason, because he is better than both are at the point this question arose, and his leadership appears to have paid dividends for our young WR corps, also the fact we have seen glimpses of these younger players, Thompson, doss etc, we don't know if they can do it for a year. If they can't our offense will be back to the way it was last year.
[/quote]
I agree. I thinko the reason our WRs have looked so good is because of his leadership. It is also partially because they want to get better, too. The combination of wanting to be better with someone who has been there to teach you and to be an example are huge. Torrey is emerging as a leader of the WRs, so I can see him assume that role.

The Ravens don't keep players just because they are leaders or examples. Case in point Todd Heap. I'm still very conflicted on this subject. Hopefully we just win the Super Bowl and that was he can just reitre with us on top, lol.

[tctony]

Jacoby isn't a #2 guy. That's why he didn't work out in Houston.

[CapoRocky]

I don't know if this is a good topic to start in September. Let's see how the season plays out. I think that there is little or no chance that Q doesn't finish his contract out here in Baltimore. Look how he played on Thursday night. He made some great catches with guys hanging all over him. He's a tough blocker and knows how to make the comeback route that Mason perfected during his time here. Q isn't 35 years old either. Let's just hope everyone has a good season and he isn't always leaned on as in the past when we didn't have many options.

[flynismo]

We get rid of Boldin, and then what? Rely on Jacoby Jones to be a reliable starter? I dont think so.
Doss as our #2? Maybe. We need to see a lot more of Doss before we have him replace a guy like Boldin.

[nk02442]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1348523173' post='1165932']
Perfectly said. I love Boldin, but he's getting up there in age. He's been declining since he's been here, although some can be attributed to the scheme. Combine that with his salary next year, and he'll be one of those cap casualties.
[/quote]

I dont know where you guys are getting this.....

Q skills have not declined. He is the same player as he was in AZ. The only difference is the way he is used.

Our Idiot of an OC (and by extension HC for allowing this [profanity deleted] to go on) has been lining him up on the outside for the last 3 years. He is not a speedster. He is a sure handed slot guy. When he is used right and the ball is close to him, he catches it. Look at the game against AZ last year. Look at the game last week making crazy catches.

Q is our best reciever , weather we use him correctly or not. If we cut him, he is going to somewhere where they will use him right and he will blow it up like in AZ.

Smith and Jones on the outside................Boldin and Pita on the inside and rice in the backfield. Is it really hard to see how deadly and effective this combination is? Apparantly beacuse Cam still doesnt get it.

[The Raven]

I don't want to release Boldin but there is a strong chance it happens. He's 32 and making 6 million. That's a pretty big chunk of change. What happened to McGahee, Heap, Mason, and Gregg? They were released due to the same exact problem. Over the hill and too expensive to retain. They also had backups waiting in the wings to take their spot. Why is everyone so adamant that it won't happen? We released Mason when the only proven receiver we had on the roster was Boldin. Now we have a few more competent receivers. Yet, Boldin being released is still completely out of the question?

I don't want it to happen, and I doubt that it will. But we can't just pretend that there is no chance that it could happen.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1348465624' post='1164832']
WHAT IF at the end of the season Ozzie cuts Anquan Boldin and chooses to sign Jacoby Jones to a contract extension while finally giving Tandon Doss his opportunity in the slot.

Jacoby is coming up HUGE for us and gives our passing game a dynamic that was lacking with Q lining up outside. He's big and fast. Something we've been desperately searching for and with Torrey on the other side defenses can't double both of them. It seemed like all game against the Patriots it was either Torrey or Jacoby making a big play down field.

Anquan is due a pretty hefty salary next season and it wouldn't be surprising to see Oz cut him to save cap space. I love Quan but after seeing how ruthless the FO was with cutting Heap and Mason I see this as a realistic possibility.

I noticed that Tandon was getting some reps tonight and I'm feeling that his time is coming. Obviously I would like it if we could keep Anquan past this season but the money just isn't available to keep everybody and Jacoby is really establishing his value to the team early this season.

At this point I'd choose Jacoby over Anquan if I had to choose. We have possession guys on the roster behind Anquan but lack a player behind Jacoby with regards to skill sets.

What are you thoughts on the future of the reviving corps? Whichever way we go I'm excited about the bright outlook of our passing game.
[/quote]

Point taken but premature. Many things will change or come to light during the next three-five months to give this a different perspective. Not to say you are wrong or right but I prefer to make this kind of decision when the time comes and not do it prematurely.

At this point nothing would change, Doss has only 2-3 catches and haven't had to do much blocking if any from the WR position.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='HoldingCall' timestamp='1349056501' post='1174495']
Point taken but premature. Many things will change or come to light during the next three-five months to give this a different perspective. Not to say you are wrong or right but I prefer to make this kind of decision when the time comes and not do it prematurely.

At this point nothing would change, Doss has only 2-3 catches and haven't had to do much blocking if any from the WR position.
[/quote]I noticed my original post is getting negged like crazy and that's probably because people thought I started this thread AFTER the Browns game when Q had a monster game. That's neither here nor there though.

But like me and others have said. We've cut players in the recent past before we knew exactly what we had behind them. I have the utmost confidence that Doss would get it done if given his opportunity. All you have to do is look at his game tape at IU to know he can flat out ball. I LOVE BOLDIN. I think he defines what it means to be a Ravens receiver: gritty, tough, and a beast in the run game. But when you're paying a slot guy the money we'll be paying Boldin you have to think long and hard whether or not you should be spending that money elsewhere (i.e. on Jacoby who is developing into a bona fide threat outside of the numbers).

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1349064282' post='1174594']
I noticed my original post is getting negged like crazy and that's probably because people thought I started this thread AFTER the Browns game when Q had a monster game. That's neither here nor there though.

But like me and others have said. We've cut players in the recent past before we knew exactly what we had behind them. I have the utmost confidence that Doss would get it done if given his opportunity. All you have to do is look at his game tape at IU to know he can flat out ball. I LOVE BOLDIN. I think he defines what it means to be a Ravens receiver: gritty, tough, and a beast in the run game. But when you're paying a slot guy the money we'll be paying Boldin you have to think long and hard whether or not you should be spending that money elsewhere (i.e. on Jacoby who is developing into a bona fide threat outside of the numbers).
[/quote]

These days players are not far from a team's revolving door, always coming and going so your thoughts are a possibility. It's also a possibility that Ed Reed, Ray Lewis, and Matt Birk retires after this year. I for one don't want to see that day come but reality says it has to and sooner than later. If cap space is the sole issue then that may be a problem solver.

I don't know Q's salary or what Jones was paid but there are also receivers waiting on deck like Donte Thompson, Laquan Williams and Tommy Streeter so I see some sort of shake up as probable.

We cannot forget Willis McGaHee, J Johnson, Tod Heap, or Cory Redding like situations, or the possibility of a trade offer for Q's talent. Depending on the offer made we also cannot rule out the possibility that Doss could end up on the trading block if the FO is offered something they feel makes the team better.

[jdynamite]

I don't think Boldin has declined at all, I think the fact that he didn't reach a 1,000 yards receiving misleads people into thinking Boldin has declined. Facts are that since we have picked Boldin up from the Cardinals Cam Cameron basically plugged him into more of a Traditional #1 WR role and he has moved him around as much, in Arizona Boldin often lined up in the slot, or motioned to the slot pre-snap, or motioned out of the slot giving causing defenses to constantly adjust and shuffle corners ( Boldin was lining up in the slot as a top WR before Wes Welker and before Victor Cruz exploded also.)

I found it ironic that one of the few games Boldin was used correctly was last year versus the Cardinals when he was motioned all over the field and took over that game for us.

The last 2 seasons Boldin was on pace for 1,000 yard seasons, but for whatever reason in the last 3 weeks of both seasons Boldin was rarely utilized.. His average yards per catch has been higher these last 2 seasons but he doesn't have as many receptions.

It's funny how some fans are already thinking about how to replace Boldin but last season there was such an outcry when Mason and Heap were not re-signed.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1349103152' post='1174735']
I don't think Boldin has declined at all, I think the fact that he didn't reach a 1,000 yards receiving misleads people into thinking Boldin has declined. Facts are that since we have picked Boldin up from the Cardinals Cam Cameron basically plugged him into more of a Traditional #1 WR role and he has moved him around as much, in Arizona Boldin often lined up in the slot, or motioned to the slot pre-snap, or motioned out of the slot giving causing defenses to constantly adjust and shuffle corners ( Boldin was lining up in the slot as a top WR before Wes Welker and before Victor Cruz exploded also.)

I found it ironic that one of the few games Boldin was used correctly was last year versus the Cardinals when he was motioned all over the field and took over that game for us.

The last 2 seasons Boldin was on pace for 1,000 yard seasons, but for whatever reason in the last 3 weeks of both seasons Boldin was rarely utilized.. His average yards per catch has been higher these last 2 seasons but he doesn't have as many receptions.

It's funny how some fans are already thinking about how to replace Boldin but last season there was such an outcry when Mason and Heap were not re-signed.
[/quote]

Boldin has declined. It's very evident that he doesnt have the quickness he once possessed. Q was never a burner but in his AZ days he was a more explosive player. He still has great hands and he abuses bad corners but there are times when he completely disappears.

[jdynamite]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1349104535' post='1174752']
Boldin has declined. It's very evident that he doesnt have the quickness he once possessed. Q was never a burner but in his AZ days he was a more explosive player. He still has great hands and he abuses bad corners but there are times when he completely disappears.
[/quote]

The times that he completely disappears, he is lined up on the outside, running routes and CBs know he doesn't have deep speed (has never had deep speed even at FSU) they use the sidelines as an extra defender because he has limited space to work with, thats why it's so annoying to see him lined up outside running 10 yard curl, or 7 yard out route when the defender can sit on it... When Boldin lines up or motions to the slot he can now have option routes with spacing to make moves across the middle.

* Abuses bad corners is the key thing here that's why teams rotate their top WRs across the line now to create those mismatches with "bad corners". The lions are tired of Calvin Johnson getting triple-team blank coverage on the outside so they have been lining him up in the slot more and more this season. Victor Cruz/ Wes Welker are constantly beating a 3rd corner until teams get sick of it and shuffle their corners around or move a safety in for extra help which then opens up deeper routes.