Cary Williams

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352258703' post='1212584']
The numbers don't lie. His pick 6 was impressive and the play of a legit corner. But other than that he has been anything but legit. How with those numbers can you call him decent? They don't lie, those numbers are atrocious.

You can't even skew those numbers otherwise.
[/quote]13 team sacks in eight games should clear up some of your questions. Our pressure is terrible. We are in the bottom half of the league in that category. I'm impressed with his picks for such a weak defense.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352312380' post='1212817']
He's not giving up yardage or touchdowns on plays when he's covering for 6 seconds at a time and he's not getting beat on improvised plays. He's getting beat on route designs, simple routes, 7 yard comebacks, skinny posts, 9 routes etc. I probably like Pees as a DC the least on this entire board, thats been well documented. But Cary is not playing well in the current condition or scheme.
[/quote]For a corner to be effective we have to generate a pass rush. This is the NFL. 13 team sacks is not getting it done. By the way i think Cary has one of those.

[DocMartin]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352149161' post='1211531']
Cary and Jimmy are both equally terrible. I will say that Cary's side seems to get tested a whole lot more than Jimmy's.
[/quote]
Like I said before, they make Chris Carr and Frank Walker looklike Pro Bowlers!

[The Raven]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1352317646' post='1212861']
Like I said before, they make Chris Carr and Frank Walker looklike Pro Bowlers!
[/quote]

Not even close.

[DocMartin]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352323175' post='1212922']


Not even close.
[/quote]
Im not so sure. Well how about Foxworth & Washington? I like to see some stats comparison. Cary just makes himself look bad by giving every receiver 8-10 yard cushion, over and over, makes you wonder why? What amazes me is some people made comparison of Jimmy Smith to Chris McAllister, What were they smoking?

[RavensQB]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1352324500' post='1212940']
Im not so sure. Well how about Foxworth & Washington? I like to see some stats comparison. Cary just makes himself look bad by giving every receiver 8-10 yard cushion, over and over, makes you wonder why? What amazes me is some people made comparison of Jimmy Smith to Chris McAllister, What were they smoking?
[/quote]

The same thing you are smoking with the fact that you dont get the Dline and scheme is 75% of the problem.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='DocMartin' timestamp='1352324500' post='1212940']
Im not so sure. Well how about Foxworth & Washington? I like to see some stats comparison. Cary just makes himself look bad by giving every receiver 8-10 yard cushion, over and over, makes you wonder why? What amazes me is some people made comparison of Jimmy Smith to Chris McAllister, What were they smoking?
[/quote]

With regards to Smith, those comparisons came at a time when he was oozing promise, and he didn't exactly stumble out of the gate. Outside of the San Diego game, Jimmy Smith had an impressive Rookie campaign. He allowed just 18 targets on 36 receptions, and an opposing QB rating of 64.6. Those are very solid numbers. He also finished with high grades across the board according to PFF. Couple that with his measurables and his final season in Colorado, wherein he allowed only 11 completions, and the comparisons were very reasonable at the time. He's struggled in 2012, however, and struggled mightily. But I wouldn't call out the ones who were praising him prior to this season, because the praise wasn't undeserved then.

[Mick0311]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352312477' post='1212818']
13 team sacks in eight games should clear up some of your questions. Our pressure is terrible. We are in the bottom half of the league in that category. I'm impressed with his picks for such a weak defense.
[/quote]

Yeah, he makes for a mean deflected pass catcher. Cover man? Not so much.

[BenMir]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352325736' post='1212964']
With regards to Smith, those comparisons came at a time when he was oozing promise, and he didn't exactly stumble out of the gate. Outside of the San Diego game, Jimmy Smith had an impressive Rookie campaign. He allowed just 18 targets on 36 receptions, and an opposing QB rating of 64.6. Those are very solid numbers. He also finished with high grades across the board according to PFF. Couple that with his measurables and his final season in Colorado, wherein he allowed only 11 completions, and the comparisons were very reasonable at the time. He's struggled in 2012, however, and struggled mightily. But I wouldn't call out the ones who were praising him prior to this season, because the praise wasn't undeserved then.
[/quote]
And you know what, I bet his stats would look better if he pressed the freakin receiver. He may not be elie, but I'm sure as hell he's at least solid in press coverage.

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='BenMir' timestamp='1352330060' post='1213022']
And you know what, I bet his stats would look better if he pressed the freakin receiver. He may not be elie, but I'm sure as hell he's at least solid in press coverage.
[/quote]
Hey would probably be eilite if u let him press the friggin man

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Mr. Irrelevant' timestamp='1352338449' post='1213082']
Hey would probably be eilite if u let him press the friggin man
[/quote]

Press coverage wouldn't magically solve all of Jimmy's issues.

[Militant X 1]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352311701' post='1212806']
[b]We have zero pass rush MILI[/b]. He has to give space to receivers because he has to cover them down the field longer. It will improve. The numbers don't lie, we have a terrible d coordinator with a bend but don't break philosophy, and Cary is playing his part.

If you wanna go by the numbers how many sacks does the D- line have all season. currently we are ranked 26th i think. That should clear up a lot of [u]this descent corner talk[/u]. No pressure = long plays on the back end. SMH-------------lol
[/quote]

RBates...why are you quoting Bltravens post and mentioning my name bruh? SMH!

~Mili

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1352310678' post='1212790']
Are people still giving Cary crap? He is still playing solid. He had a couple bad games (one vs Brady...) in a terrible defensive scheme.
[/quote]

He appears to be playing better as the season progresses, lets hope it continues and there are no set back games.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352311701' post='1212806']
We have zero pass rush MILI. He has to give space to receivers because he has to cover them down the field longer. It will improve. The numbers don't lie, we have a terrible d coordinator with a bend but don't break philosophy, and Cary is playing his part.

If you wanna go by the numbers how many sacks does the D- line have all season. currently we are ranked 26th i think. That should clear up a lot of this descent corner talk. No pressure = long plays on the back end. SMH-------------lol
[/quote]

I agree with you here. The scheme which takes into account a lack of pass rushers have the corners playing farther off the receivers. This is in response to having a weak DL up front.

[HoldingCall]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352312380' post='1212817']
He's not giving up yardage or touchdowns on plays when he's covering for 6 seconds at a time and he's not getting beat on improvised plays. He's getting beat on route designs, simple routes, 7 yard comebacks, skinny posts, 9 routes etc. I probably like Pees as a DC the least on this entire board, thats been well documented. But Cary is not playing well in the current condition or scheme.
[/quote]

A year ago before the the season began most thought our secondary would be the team's weakness but they played really good partly due to pressure by Suggs and crew up front. Without that pressure this season, we are seeing what the DL was able to mask last season.

But there are signs of improvement. He's slowly adapting to playing from where he lines up which is obviously a location he isn't comfortable with or maybe it's just due to Suggs being back.

[Pino]

i'm glad he's doing better



[b] [/b][quote name='Pino' timestamp='1352396640' post='1213310']
[b] [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/topic/48039-cary-williams-declines-offer/"]Cary williams declines offer[/url][/b]

[indent=1]
[color=#A4A4A4][font=inherit][size=3][img]http://content.boards.baltimoreravens.com/uploads/av-10552.jpg?_r=0[/img] Posted by [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/user/10552-pino/"]Pino[/url] on 20 August 2012 - 05:13 PM in [url="http://boards.baltimoreravens.com/forum/6-ravens-talk/"]Ravens Talk[/url][/size][/font][/color]
[color=#282828][i]Maybe[/i], just maybe, he made an incredibly honorable choice of not taking the money because he knew there might be a possibility of disappointing literally everyone including himself. Maybe he didn't want to have that stigma following him. So just maybe he, very unselfishly and very bravely, took the warrior's path, wanting to prove himself and truly earn his keep.

He'll play to the best of his ability, and if he's worth it, we'll pay him. If his play disappoints, we can't hold too much against him. He didn't take the money, we all are lead to believe that Jimmy Smith is the better defender (remains to be seen), and he and everyone else is at peace with his role on the team.

I like this possibility, and I won't go along with the media saying "he shoulda taken the money"[/color][/indent]
[/quote]

[Sunday QB]

I for one am glad he didn't take the money, now we can pay him less or trade him.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1352397029' post='1213316']
I for one am glad he didn't take the money, now we can pay him less or trade him.
[/quote]

I don't believe we'd be able to trade him because the deadline has passed and he will be a UFA next season. Just clarifying.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1352397029' post='1213316']
I for one am glad he didn't take the money, now we can pay him less or trade him.
[/quote]

I don't believe we'd be able to trade him because the deadline has passed and he will be a UFA following this season. Just clarifying.

[Sunday QB]

Ok I was thinking next year, but as a UFA we won't get anything for him. That's another reason we shuld grab Standford Routt. I am not comfortable with Jimmy Smith and don't want to go down that road again with wasting a 1st round pick.

[rmw10]

[quote name='Sunday QB' timestamp='1352402079' post='1213361']
Ok I was thinking next year, but as a UFA we won't get anything for him. That's another reason we shuld grab Standford Routt. I am not comfortable with Jimmy Smith and don't want to go down that road again with wasting a 1st round pick.
[/quote]

I'm not sure on Routt. A Raiders team with very little talent got rid of him. A Chiefs team with very little talent got rid of him. Something's wrong there.

[Sunday QB]

Maybe, need to research some to find out why he was cut, maybe injured.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1352403784' post='1213379']
I'm not sure on Routt. A Raiders team with very little talent got rid of him. A Chiefs team with very little talent got rid of him. Something's wrong there.
[/quote]

I can definitely sympathize with the point about the Raiders. Their CB corps is completely depleted. Perhaps they were honestly counting on Ron Bartell and Shawntae Spencer to man the starting spots and stay healthy, which backfired, to say the least. But Kansas City has quite a bit of talent on their defensive side.

[rmw10]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352407298' post='1213419']
I can definitely sympathize with the point about the Raiders. Their CB corps is completely depleted. Perhaps they were honestly counting on Ron Bartell and Shawntae Spencer to man the starting spots and stay healthy, which backfired, to say the least. But Kansas City has quite a bit of talent on their defensive side.
[/quote]

I can agree with that. Flowers is pretty good and Arenas is an intriguing, young guy. Obviously Berry is phenomenal. Either way, they still gave Routt a 3 year, $19.5 million dollar deal. To not even give him a full season after paying him that much says a lot.

[redlobster]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1352407569' post='1213422']
I can agree with that. Flowers is pretty good and Arenas is an intriguing, young guy. Obviously Berry is phenomenal. Either way, they still gave Routt a 3 year, $19.5 million dollar deal. To not even give him a full season after paying him that much says a lot.
[/quote]

Berry might have started phenomenal , he is by no stretch of the imagination not even close to the same player as he was before his knee injury, he is currently average at best right now, kendrick lewis is always injured at the other safety spot. Flowers has been banged up most of the year, arena's is a disappointment and travis daniels just sucks, Carr was probably the best corner , yes better than flowers, and the chiefs let him leave. I live in Kansas and hear about the Chiefs non-stop , nobody on that team is playing good at all, with maybe the exception justin houston. Routt sucks and there is a reason the chiefs and raiders cut him, I do not want him and would rather role with smith, williams, brown, and jackson

[-Truth-]

[quote name='rmw10' timestamp='1352407569' post='1213422']
I can agree with that. Flowers is pretty good and Arenas is an intriguing, young guy. Obviously Berry is phenomenal. Either way, they still gave Routt a 3 year, $19.5 million dollar deal. To not even give him a full season after paying him that much says a lot.
[/quote]

I can't disagree with that. Not sure what their plan was. Perhaps they figured they have depth, but Javier Arenas is much better suited inside. On a related, unrelated note, Brandon Flowers has been one of my favorite players in the NFL ever since I watched him at Virginia. For a player to allow an average of 53% completion rate and an opposing QB rating of just 67.82 over a 5 year span, that's the mark of true consistency. It's a shame that he's never once been voted into the Pro Bowl. Back to the topic at hand, Eric Berry actually hasn't been playing up to the standards he set for himself, but I can attribute at least a portion of his struggles to the ACL tear. The Routt situation is an intriguing one. He did well through his first 5 games, giving up an average 41.4 yards per contest through that span, with 0 TDs and 1 INT. But then he gave up a ton of yardage in his following 2 weeks. Frankly, I was surprised that he was shown the door so quickly. He has the physical talent, but struggles mightily with technique at times, evidenced by his high number of penalties. He has cut them down quite a bit since last season, to his credit, but he still needs to play the ball a bit better. I expect him to find a team within the new few weeks, especially if one loses a player to injury.

[rmw10]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1352407784' post='1213423']
Berry might have started phenomenal , he is by no stretch of the imagination not even close to the same player as he was before his knee injury, he is currently average at best right now, kendrick lewis is always injured at the other safety spot. Flowers has been banged up most of the year, arena's is a disappointment and travis daniels just sucks, Carr was probably the best corner , yes better than flowers, and the chiefs let him leave. I live in Kansas and hear about the Chiefs non-stop , nobody on that team is playing good at all, with maybe the exception justin houston. Routt sucks and there is a reason the chiefs and raiders cut him, I do not want him and would rather role with smith, williams, brown, and jackson
[/quote]

Well, then, I'll take being right in the first place

Haha I don't really follow the Chiefs, but either way, Routt getting cut isn't a good sign for him.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='redlobster' timestamp='1352407784' post='1213423']
Berry might have started phenomenal , he is by no stretch of the imagination not even close to the same player as he was before his knee injury, he is currently average at best right now, kendrick lewis is always injured at the other safety spot. Flowers has been banged up most of the year, arena's is a disappointment and travis daniels just sucks, [b]Carr was probably the best corner , yes better than flowers[/b], and the chiefs let him leave. I live in Kansas and hear about the Chiefs non-stop , nobody on that team is playing good at all, with maybe the exception justin houston. Routt sucks and there is a reason the chiefs and raiders cut him, I do not want him and would rather role with smith, williams, brown, and jackson
[/quote]

No. It's not even close. Even while playing hurt, Flowers has only allowed a mere 13 receptions on 30 targets and a QB rating of 45.4. Carr on the other hand? Is barely impressing, if at all, with an opposing passer rating of 97.0. And outside of pure statistics, Flowers' coverage grade per PFF is over 3 times higher than that of Carr's. Carr hasn't been horrible by any stretch, but he certainly hasn't proven to be better than his former counterpart thus far. I'll definitely agree with the point about Justin Houston, who's been lights out this year. But their OL deserves credit as well. They've been fantastic this season, and their OT duo has performed as well as any in NFL, allowing a combined 3 sacks. Jamaal Charles has been very solid. Dwyane Bowe has been formidable, having cut down his number of drops from seasons' past. So it's not like everyone on the team is struggling. But when a team's TO ratio is at a mind-blowing -20, a 1-7 record seems pretty unsurprising.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Militant X 1' timestamp='1352382271' post='1213183']
RBates...why are you quoting Bltravens post and mentioning my name bruh? SMH!

~Mili
[/quote]I didn't even notice that my bad.

[xxhighriser]

Pretty good game today by Cary, looks like he's gaining some confidence.