Cary Williams

[Guest RBates]

Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.

[redrum52]

[quote name='Purple Nurple' timestamp='1352143621' post='1211428']
I still cant believe Cary leads the AFC in picks although when you consider they test his side constantly, its really not that unbelievable........
[/quote]

Yea, but the funny thing is when people vote for the Pro Bowl he might actually make it cause of his ints. It would be hilarious to me if he does end up making it though most people don't know about him or how poor his coverage usually is. Then there's the fact Webb didn't make it last year after not allowing a td.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352211932' post='1212037']
Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.
[/quote]

[i]You're[/i] accusing others of being out of touch?

Cary may end up leading the league iin picks but he'll also be among the leaders in catches, yards and TDs surrendered. I'm glad he's had several interceptions but it would be much better if he tightened up his coverage.

[J-nonymous]

Stanford Routt.....yeah.....SIGN THAT MAN!

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='J-nonymous' timestamp='1352217580' post='1212102']
Stanford Routt.....yeah.....SIGN THAT MAN!
[/quote]
Pass interference machine.... No thanks.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352211932' post='1212037']
Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.
[/quote]

Even if that's the case, it wouldn't make him a solid CB if he continues to give up significant amount of yards. Kyle Arrington led the league in INTs in 2011, but he wasn't exactly a quality player. How they happen is also of relevance. Outside of his impressive INT against the Browns in week 4, the others were a result of a tipped pass, an errant throw while under pressure, and a miscommunication between the QB and the TE. I'm more concerned that he's allowed 44 receptions on 61 targets, the 3rd most yards in the NFL with 572, and the 5th most TDs. Fortunately for him, he still has half a season to turn things around. Here's hoping he does.

[Dfence4champs2052]

It is ironic he leads the conference in INTs with such absymal coverage skills. I saw that yesterday on the ticker he's like tied for fourth in the NFL too. SMH @ this. Why is it everyone else's backups seem to step up and excel when given the chance and ours are underachieving or just barely keeping their heads above water?

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1352149161' post='1211531']
[b]Cary and Jimmy are both equally terrible. [/b]I will say that Cary's side seems to get tested a whole lot more than Jimmy's.
[/quote]

This is the truth to this little internal debate. Just one game...let's see some press coverage.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352211932' post='1212037']
Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.
[/quote]
He's not a very decent corner. He's below average, his picks mean nothing.
[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352221159' post='1212151']

Even if that's the case, it wouldn't make him a solid CB if he continues to give up significant amount of yards. Kyle Arrington led the league in INTs in 2011, but he wasn't exactly a quality player. How they happen is also of relevance. Outside of his impressive INT against the Browns in week 4, the others were a result of a tipped pass, an errant throw while under pressure, and a miscommunication between the QB and the TE. I'm more concerned that he's allowed 44 receptions on 61 targets, the 3rd most yards in the NFL with 572, and the 5th most TDs. Fortunately for him, he still has half a season to turn things around. Here's hoping he does.
[/quote]
And this is why they mean nothing, and this is why he's not a very decent corner.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1352221159' post='1212151']

Even if that's the case, it wouldn't make him a solid CB if he continues to give up significant amount of yards. Kyle Arrington led the league in INTs in 2011, but he wasn't exactly a quality player. How they happen is also of relevance. Outside of his impressive INT against the Browns in week 4, the others were a result of a tipped pass, an errant throw while under pressure, and a miscommunication between the QB and the TE. I'm more concerned that he's allowed 44 receptions on 61 targets, the 3rd most yards in the NFL with 572, and the 5th most TDs. Fortunately for him, he still has half a season to turn things around. Here's hoping he does.
[/quote]We are getting 0 pressure on the Quarterback to this point. A corner covering a teams best receiver is bound to give up yards and touchdowns under these conditions. If we start getting pressure up front Cary will do his job better. Takeaways are what is the major cause of our successful record.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352236356' post='1212340']
He's not a very decent corner. He's below average, his picks mean nothing.

And this is why they mean nothing, and this is why he's not a very decent corner.
[/quote]Wow this is simply amazing. Without those picks, and especially that pick six, we lose those games. Not even decent?
I have no words.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352242521' post='1212442']
Wow this is simply amazing. Without those picks, and especially that pick six, we lose those games. Not even decent?
I have no words.
[/quote]

Just wanted to chime in. I certainly won't argue against your last statement regarding the Chiefs contest. The forced turnovers saved our behinds, and Cary was responsible for two of them. Although the offense did make plays when it mattered to seal the game. But it goes no further. I don't buy us losing the first Browns game without the INT. We were up 16-10 at that point, and they were facing a 3rd and 5. Even if the ball does hit the ground, the hypothetical punt would've granted us an extra possession to cushion the lead. Nor do I buy the same statement about the Cowboys game. It was 3rd and 10, and the ball would've fell incomplete regardless. We began on our 20, as we very likely could have following another hypothetical punt. Lastly, the same goes for this past contest as well. According to Cary, Brandon Weeden was attempting to throw the ball away on a 3rd and 3. And our offense did nothing with the football on the following drive. Frankly, with that in mind, it's a little silly to proclaim that his INTs handed us those Ws. The turnovers are definitely a significant part of our record. But we do rank higher in TO difference than we do in just TOs, so it's not the only part of our success.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352242521' post='1212442']
Wow this is simply amazing. Without those picks, and especially that pick six, we lose those games. Not even decent?
I have no words.
[/quote]

Just wanted to chime in. I certainly won't argue against your last statement regarding the Chiefs contest. The forced turnovers saved our behinds, and Cary was responsible for two of them. Although the offense did make plays when it mattered to seal the game. But it goes no further. I don't buy us losing the first Browns game without the INT. We were up 16-10 at that point, and they were facing a 3rd and 5. Even if the ball does hit the ground, the hypothetical punt would've granted us an extra possession to cushion the lead. Nor do I buy the same statement about the Cowboys game. It was 3rd and 10, and the ball would've fell incomplete regardless. We began on our 20, as we very likely could have following another hypothetical punt. Lastly, the same goes for this past contest as well. According to Cary, Brandon Weeden was attempting to throw the ball away on a 3rd and 3. And our offense did nothing with the football on the following drive. Frankly, with that in mind, it's a little silly to proclaim that his INTs handed us every one of those Ws. The turnovers are definitely a significant part of our record. But we do rank higher in TO difference than we do in just TOs, so it's not the only part of our success.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352242332' post='1212441']
We are getting 0 pressure on the Quarterback to this point. A corner covering a teams best receiver is bound to give up yards and touchdowns under these conditions. If we start getting pressure up front Cary will do his job better. Takeaways are what is the major cause of our successful record.
[/quote]

I'm right there with you about our inability to rush the passer. I'm sure it would help out the secondary tremendously. But we pressured the QB rather well in 2011, and Cary was still up and down last season, at best. He gave up the 9th most yards allowed among all CBs, and a QB rating of 88.4 when thrown his way. He's also struggling with the same issues in technique that plagued him last year, so it's difficult to assume that a potent pass rush will automatically cure those problems. All I know is that if we project his current numbers through the following 8 games, he will have given up an astounding 2007 passing yards over a span of just 2 seasons, with a QB rating of 92.2. Perhaps our ideas of, "very decent," could very well be different, but with those numbers in mind, he'd probably fall short of my definition.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352211932' post='1212037']
Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.
[/quote]

He also might lead the league in opposing QBR (in a bad way) and TDs given up.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352242332' post='1212441']
We are getting 0 pressure on the Quarterback to this point. [b]A corner covering a teams best receiver is bound to give up yards and touchdowns under these conditions[/b]. If we start getting pressure up front Cary will do his job better. Takeaways are what is the major cause of our successful record.
[/quote]

Cary doesnt cover the best receiver. He lines up on the Right and Jimmy on the Left. They dont follow opposing team's WRs like some teams do.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352242521' post='1212442']
Wow this is simply amazing. Without those picks, and especially that pick six, we lose those games. Not even decent?
I have no words.
[/quote]
The numbers don't lie. His pick 6 was impressive and the play of a legit corner. But other than that he has been anything but legit. How with those numbers can you call him decent? They don't lie, those numbers are atrocious.

You can't even skew those numbers otherwise.

[FormulaOne]

As I sit and recall the elite skillset of the best corner we ever had, Frank Walker...

...I quickly realize Cary and Jimmy can never accomplish the same on-field feats that Frank accomplished.

<3

[BloodRaven]

I can't believe Chris Culliver and Richard Sherman were taken in the 3rd and 5th respectively. Some teams just strike gold in their drafts.

[jaege]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352236356' post='1212340']
He's not a very decent corner. He's below average, his picks mean nothing.

And this is why they mean nothing, and this is why he's not a very decent corner.
[/quote]

Picks are never meaningless. Turnovers win or lose the game. Good coverage goes a long way toward that too...Still, if all he does is average a pick every other game I would keep him. Once our pass rush steps up, he may do a little better in the coverage department and he will likely get a chance at more sloppy throws too. Doesnt mean I don't want to see Webb get back.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352211932' post='1212037']
Reading through this thread i am amazed at how out of touch with the team that some of you are. Cary williams is a very decent corner. I'm glad he is on our team. If he keeps getting picked on by opposing quarterbacks, he might lead the league in picks.
[/quote]

His technique is absolutely horrible. Turns his hips late and never gets his head around. Am I grateful for some of his game changing picks? Of couse! Is he a poor cover corner? Yes!

[gabefergy]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1352287008' post='1212644']
I can't believe Chris Culliver and Richard Sherman were taken in the 3rd and 5th respectively. Some teams just strike gold in their drafts.
[/quote]
Like Webb in the 3rd round?

[tctony]

Are people still giving Cary crap? He is still playing solid. He had a couple bad games (one vs Brady...) in a terrible defensive scheme.

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352310602' post='1212789']
Like Webb in the 3rd round?
[/quote]

I'm greedy.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='tctony' timestamp='1352310678' post='1212790']
Are people still giving Cary crap? He is still playing solid. He had a couple bad games (one vs Brady...) in a terrible defensive scheme.
[/quote]
Giving up 2 TDs to Dez Bryant on the same play is because of bad scheme? He has struggled all season. Even Weeden picked on him in week 4.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1352246176' post='1212487']
Cary doesnt cover the best receiver. He lines up on the Right and Jimmy on the Left. They dont follow opposing team's WRs like some teams do.
[/quote]1 or a 2 receiver on a football team is the teams best receivers..

[Mick0311]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1352233313' post='1212294']
This is the truth to this little internal debate. Just one game...let's see some press coverage.
[/quote]

Exactly. I live in Colorado, and Jimmy excelled at press coverage. He is now playing 90% of snaps off of his man, it's just insane to watch.

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1352258703' post='1212584']
The numbers don't lie. His pick 6 was impressive and the play of a legit corner. But other than that he has been anything but legit. How with those numbers can you call him decent? They don't lie, those numbers are atrocious.

You can't even skew those numbers otherwise.
[/quote]We have zero pass rush MILI. He has to give space to receivers because he has to cover them down the field longer. It will improve. The numbers don't lie, we have a terrible d coordinator with a bend but don't break philosophy, and Cary is playing his part.

If you wanna go by the numbers how many sacks does the D- line have all season. currently we are ranked 26th i think. That should clear up a lot of this descent corner talk. No pressure = long plays on the back end. SMH-------------lol

[Guest RBates]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1352296869' post='1212677']
His technique is absolutely horrible. Turns his hips late and never gets his head around. Am I grateful for some of his game changing picks? Of couse! Is he a poor cover corner? Yes!
[/quote]POOR? If you take him off our team this year we are probably at 500. i understand what you are saying about his technique, but with no pass rush in sight how else can he play. You can't judge a corner fairly if a team is not generating a pass rush.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='RBates' timestamp='1352311701' post='1212806']
We have zero pass rush MILI. He has to give space to receivers because he has to cover them down the field longer. It will improve. The numbers don't lie, we have a terrible d coordinator with a bend but don't break philosophy, and Cary is playing his part.

If you wanna go by the numbers how many sacks does the D- line have all season. currently we are ranked 26th i think. That should clear up a lot of this descent corner talk. No pressure = long plays on the back end. SMH-------------lol
[/quote]
He's not giving up yardage or touchdowns on plays when he's covering for 6 seconds at a time and he's not getting beat on improvised plays. He's getting beat on route designs, simple routes, 7 yard comebacks, skinny posts, 9 routes etc. I probably like Pees as a DC the least on this entire board, thats been well documented. But Cary is not playing well in the current condition or scheme.