Week 3 Discussion (Other Games)

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1348550383' post='1166637']
Jennings had control and brought it into his body.. Tate had to extend and reach around Jennings..

Clearly Jennings had established possession first
[/quote]

I dont think it was that clear because jennings didnt have two feet on the ground. Tate got his feet down first while they Both had two hands on the ball. Either way I don't care just saw a great picture of it on tv. Either way thats one of the craziest finishes I have ever seen!

[raybaby]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1348549532' post='1166625']
The Seatlle player is clearly reaching in for the ball while they are still in the air. The play is not dead until they hit the ground. On the ground, both have both hands on the ball. This is what the referees see. Tie goes to the runner or possession goes to the receiver.
[/quote]

Exactly reaching in. Jennings was the one who had two hands on it with possession. When they go to the ground you clearly see that one of Tate's arms is not on the ball but on Jennings helmet. Tate never had possession. You don't take away the possession Jennings clearly earned because after they hit the ground Tate tried to fight for the ball.

[Purple Nurple]

[quote name='SpiderWebb21' timestamp='1348547953' post='1166585']
And the ruling on the field is...

[img]http://i46.tinypic.com/2hobvus.png[/img]
[/quote]

And they looked at each other moments before as if they were gonna agree on the call!

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1348550383' post='1166637']
Jennings had control and brought it into his body.. Tate had to extend and reach around Jennings..

Clearly Jennings had established possession first
[/quote]

It is along the same lines as that stupid "football move". It is all subjective. The play does not end in the air. Possession does not occur until feet hit the ground, at which point the Seattle player is already in joint possession, subjectively speaking. The point being, if this was Seattle's possible INT and the TD awarded to GB, we might be discussing it here but the media would be "oh possession goes to the receiver, the call is correct" and "great throw by Rodgers" and " great way to fight for the ball by (insert GB receiver here)".

We've forgotten as a collective just how many games were decided by poor calls by the regular referee crews. And how the media justified them all.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1348549608' post='1166627']
Crazy Twitter Stat:

[color=#333333][font=Arial, sans-serif][background=rgb(245, 245, 245)]TJ Lang only had like 5,000 followers before that tweet. Almost has 50,000 now haha [/background][/font][/color][url="https://twitter.com/search/?q=%23wow&src=hash"][s]#[/s][b]wow[/b][/url]
[/quote]damn! lol. I know I was one of them haha

[RavensAllTheWay]

Also, there were bad calls earlier in the game that helped lead to that situation in the end. The setting would have been much different had Chancellor not been called for a bogus PI call on a third down that kept a GB TD drive alive, and the Seahawks would have had a second and thirty had Sam Shields not been called for a bogus PI.

I think it's only fair to mention the other bad calls that changed the outcome of this game, and that got us into the situation at the end. Whether the calls were against GB or SEA, that last play was set up in large part by previous crap calls. And this happens in every game.

It's just a shame.

[RavensAllTheWay]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1348551875' post='1166660']
damn! lol. I know I was one of them haha
[/quote]

Yeah, me too.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1348551944' post='1166662']
Yeah, me too.
[/quote]
He's a funny little fat guy.

[flaccopoe]

I left a message on the Commissoner's voicemail about how I felt about it, lol. At the advice of some of my tweeple.

[-Truth-]

The book definition of a possession is, "When a player controls the ball throughout the act of clearly touching both feet, or any other part of his body other than his hand(s), to the ground inbounds." Notice at the 1:27 mark ([url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap1000000065984/Was-Seahawks-final-play-a-touchdown"]Link[/url]), as Tate clearly takes his right hand off and then places it over the arms of MD Jennings, which were cradling the pigskin around his chest. At no point in time does Golden Tate ever control the ball itself, whether when Jennings was mid-air or on the turf. At most, his hands were touching the football, but they were not clasped around it, certainly not enough to constitute a catch. Because of this, I don't see any way that this could be seen as a joint possession.

[BMOREHAWAII]

I agree 100%. Jennings was robbed of the "offensive player wins" call. Jennings had possession IMO and came down with the ball while Tate was frantically trying to get 2 hands on the ball..

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1348553966' post='1166682']
The book definition of a possession is, "When a player controls the ball throughout the act of clearly touching both feet, or any other part of his body other than his hand(s), to the ground inbounds." Notice at the 1:27 mark ([url="http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/0ap1000000065984/Was-Seahawks-final-play-a-touchdown"]Link[/url]), as Tate clearly takes his right hand off and then places it over the arms of MD Jennings, which were cradling the pigskin around his chest. At no point in time does Golden Tate ever control the ball itself, whether when Jennings was mid-air or on the turf. At most, his hands were touching the football, but they were not clasped around it, certainly not enough to constitute a catch. Because of this, I don't see any way that this could be seen as a joint possession.
[/quote]

Eh its still iffy in my eyes or just because of the drinks i have had. When he takes his hand off the ball jennings feet arent on the ground so he still doesnt have possession.

[reediddy]

[quote name='AZravensfan' timestamp='1348555547' post='1166691']
Eh its still iffy in my eyes or just because of the drinks i have had. When he takes his hand off the ball jennings feet arent on the ground so he still doesnt have possession.
[/quote]

I agree with this! I posted the following on facebook:

[color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=3]What clouds the argument that Jennings had 'control' of that interception is the Calvin Johnson rule aka the receiver has to maintain control throughout impact with the ground; would it not make sense that possession of the ball could change in the air, prior to impact with the ground? Could that have applied to this particular play? Are we sure Jennings had complete control of the ball or is it possible that Tate was able to wretch the ball away while airborne, just enough, to the point where it was convincing enough to call simultaneous control and as such, an offensive touchdown?[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#333333][font='lucida grande', tahoma, verdana, arial, sans-serif][size=3]I still think the Packers could've avoided this situation by being more effective in the first half and capitalizing on their red zone opportunities, but the call was made, it's still early in the season[/size][/font][/color]

I honestly think this applies. I also want to add that the call on the field, a touchdown, could not be reversed given the video evidence. There was no clear video evidence that Jennings was the sole possessor of the ball and Tate did not obtain simultaneous possession prior to contacting the ground. This was unable to be seen because Jennings leans forward and obstructs the view of the ball. As such, the call of a touchdown can't be overturned!

Anyone else with me here?! I can't believe people aren't even considering this

[RavensFanInCA]

I can see how the refs can interpret the rule as a TD for the Seahawks, but I completely disagree with the end result. As I described to my gf
[quote]The defender catches the ball, but it's not an [i]actual[/i] catch until he comes down to the ground and even then, if he's not downed by contact, he can still lose the ball. Thus, when the other guy has his hands on the ball, they called it simultaneous catch.[/quote]

HOWEVER, the OPI should been called and Tate didn't really catch it, he just touched the ball after Jennings caught it. Have you ever played basketball and had the defender touch the ball with two hands and call a jump ball? No? That's because it's not an actual jump ball. You need to both have [i]control[/i]. Control makes it a catch. Tate never had any control. Well, just my opinion at least.

[AZravensfan]

[quote name='RavensFanInCA' timestamp='1348559487' post='1166707']
I can see how the refs can interpret the rule as a TD for the Seahawks, but I completely disagree with the end result. As I described to my gf


HOWEVER, the OPI should been called and Tate didn't really catch it, he just touched the ball after Jennings caught it. Have you ever played basketball and had the defender touch the ball with two hands and call a jump ball? No? That's because it's not an actual jump ball. You need to both have [i]control[/i]. Control makes it a catch. Tate never had any control. Well, just my opinion at least.
[/quote]

Yup it can be interpreted either way I believe he did have control he had one arm in between Jennings arms against his chest and the other on the other side of the ball. It doesnt really matter as I dont care for either team and the games over now. Yes the OPI should have been called but OPI goes uncalled all the time, so no shocker there unfortunately.

[codizzle]

"I am not what you would call a handsome man. The good lord chose not to bless me with-with charm, athletic ability or a fully functional brain."

But good Lord even I can see this

[img]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/codyallanb14/77DBA25A-4710-4EB3-9569-3F28E1A7AECC-9712-000008E23776F49F.jpg[/img]

[Ravenslifer]

Last 3 Superbowls - 09-10 Saints over Colts, 10-11 Packers over Steelers, 11-12 Giants over Patriots.

2012 Team Records:

Saints 0-3

Colts 1-2

Packers 1-2

Steelers 1-2

Patriots 1-2

Giants - 2-1

A combined 6-12 to start the season.

[-Truth-]

[quote name='AZravensfan' timestamp='1348555547' post='1166691']
Eh its still iffy in my eyes or just because of the drinks i have had. When he takes his hand off the ball jennings feet arent on the ground so he still doesnt have possession.
[/quote]

But when did Tate have clear possession on the play, at any point? Referring to the photo below, his right hand is placed on Jennings' chest, and on the outside of the nose of the football, which doesn't constitute having control of the ball in any sense. His arms are seemingly clasped around the outside of the pigskin, and simply touching the ball isn't enough to be labeled a reception. Jennings may have not technically had possession until his feet touched the ground, but Tate never had control, in my opinion.

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1348569543' post='1166736']
[img]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/codyallanb14/77DBA25A-4710-4EB3-9569-3F28E1A7AECC-9712-000008E23776F49F.jpg[/img]
[/quote]

[1/28/01]

Worst. Call. In. NFL. History.

Hands down the worst call ever!!!! EVER!

[descent into the maelstrom]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1348575850' post='1166762']
Worst. Call. In. NFL. History.

Hands down the worst call ever!!!! EVER!
[/quote]

I think the call a few years ago in a Denver-San Diego game was a bit worse. Ed Hochuli made a bad call that cost the Chargers the game, even though he admitted he made the wrong call. That's why people actually know Ed Hochuli's name now. Either way, both calls clearly changed the outcome of the games. The difference now, imo, is that every call the officials make is under close scrutiny. The emotion is really amped up right now. It'll be nice when this nonsense is done with.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1348569543' post='1166736']
"I am not what you would call a handsome man. The good lord chose not to bless me with-with charm, athletic ability or a fully functional brain."

But good Lord even I can see this

[img]http://i1176.photobucket.com/albums/x337/codyallanb14/77DBA25A-4710-4EB3-9569-3F28E1A7AECC-9712-000008E23776F49F.jpg[/img]
[/quote]until I seem this picture I thought Tate had a bit of the ball. You can see in some shots the second Jennings catches it, Tate has hands on the ball, but when they hit the ground in this photo it's clear as day Tate lost any possession of the ball he had, and at this point is just tackling Jennings. It was joint possession initially in the air, but on the ground it's clearly all Jennings.

But I still don't see why he caught it, bat in away, the two receivers are right under your nose. The next closet man is probably the lineman 30 yards back, smash the ball into the ground 10 yards in front off you, big volleyball smash and this is no discussion

[codizzle]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1348576938' post='1166771']
until I seem this picture I thought Tate had a bit of the ball. You can see in some shots the second Jennings catches it, Tate has hands on the ball, but when they hit the ground in this photo it's clear as day Tate lost any possession of the ball he had, and at this point is just tackling Jennings. It was joint possession initially in the air, but on the ground it's clearly all Jennings.

But I still don't see why he caught it, bat in away, the two receivers are right under your nose. The next closet man is probably the lineman 30 yards back, smash the ball into the ground 10 yards in front off you, big volleyball smash and this is no discussion
[/quote]
Ehh. The defender in the Detroit game swatted the ball.. Doesnt always work

[callahan09]

[quote name='-Truth-' timestamp='1348575382' post='1166760']
But when did Tate have clear possession on the play, at any point? Referring to the photo below, his right hand is placed on Jennings' chest, and on the outside of the nose of the football, which doesn't constitute having control of the ball in any sense. His arms are seemingly clasped around the outside of the pigskin, and simply touching the ball isn't enough to be labeled a reception. Jennings may have not technically had possession until his feet touched the ground, but Tate never had control, in my opinion.
[/quote]

I was going to say that he would have been better off just batting the ball away and not trying to intercept it, but then I remembered this happened:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlvOUG8nuZ4[/media]

Maybe bat it backwards!?

[Neil]

[quote name='descent into the maelstrom' timestamp='1348576399' post='1166767']
I think the call a few years ago in a Denver-San Diego game was a bit worse. Ed Hochuli made a bad call that cost the Chargers the game, even though he admitted he made the wrong call. That's why people actually know Ed Hochuli's name now. Either way, both calls clearly changed the outcome of the games. The difference now, imo, is that every call the officials make is under close scrutiny. The emotion is really amped up right now. It'll be nice when this nonsense is done with.
[/quote]
Denver still had to score the TD and the 2-point convert though. Hochuli didn't just award the game to them.

Interestingly enough, the ref at last night's game had been fired by the Lingerie Football League for incompetance.

[cobrajet]

Lee Evans catch was more of a touchdown than Tate's. Unbelievable, the ball is cradled in Jennings chest and Tate's hand appears to gets knocked off briefly, so IMHO Tate did not had control of the ball. I am still in disbelieve that they missed the huge blatent pushoff by Tate. Green Bay, I am sure feels like we did two weeks ago with the flagged Jacoby Jones touchdown catch.

[PuRock]

[quote name='wikle' timestamp='1348548304' post='1166597']
hopefully by playoff time the real guys will be back, but still i really think we need a 1 or 2 seed
[/quote]

If we have replacement refs in the playoffs, getting that #1 or #2 seed is THAT much more important.

[JO_75]

I tell you this though, I blame it on the Packers. If the Packers would have adjusted sooner to the Seahawks D and were able to put up points like we all know they can, this becomes mute. They allowed the official to make this ruling and so did Seattle. All Seattle had to do was put up more points and this is mute, the teams are as much to blame as the refs.

[JO_75]

I just feel sorry for the Saints who have to face Green Bay next week. Packers are clearly pissed off and the Saints are coming to town, things are not looking good for the Saints.

[PuRock]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1348582950' post='1166831']
I just feel sorry for the Saints who have to face Green Bay next week. Packers are clearly pissed off and the Saints are coming to town, things are not looking good for the Saints.
[/quote]

That game is going to be a blood bath. Final score will be like 65-35 Packers. Saints are just awful on defense.

[sliceanddic3]

That was the worst call I've ever seen. My best friend likes the Packers so thats maybe why I'm a little biased, but its unbelievable that they missed that call. Jennings had the ball going all the way to the ground, Tate even lost it for a second then was able to wrestle it back. If they did have equal distribution of the ball, it'd obviously be Seattle's, but he didn't! The Packers had the ball the whole way. Pathetic. The refs could have cost the Packers the playoffs. (A little early but you never know.) We all knew eventually the replacement refs were going to cost a team a win, and they did last night. The NFL better get working on this new deal.