What exactly is John Harbaugh good at?

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347939758' post='1157363']
So because Lee Evans drops a pass / Cundiff shanks a gimme, and making it to the 2008 AFCCG when we had no business making it that far (rookie QB, 17 players on IR) in the first place is reason to question Harbaugh?
Interesting, to say the least...
[/quote]

Irrelevant statistics. He didn't get the job done, and in this league it's a simple as that. He makes a lot of poor decisions, especially when it comes to personnel. His judgment is certainly in question.

[theFRANCHISE]

Head coaches are the administrators of the team. It's their job to oversee all aspects, ideally without micromanaging.

John Harbaugh is good at knowing when to be hands-on and knowing when to stay hands-off. This week, he didn't do a good job of that. Last week, he did an excellent job of it. The past four years, he's done an excellent overall job of it.

Everyone has a horrible day at work. It happens. We move on eventually.

[flynismo]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347939863' post='1157368']
[s]He[/s] Our players didn't get the job done, and in this league it's a simple as that.
[/quote]

Fixed

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1347940138' post='1157376']
Head coaches are the administrators of the team. It's their job to oversee all aspects, ideally without micromanaging.
[/quote]

Most people realize that, but the HC and QB are going to get all the credit / blame. I blame Harbaugh and Flacco for us being the only team in the league to make the postseason each of the last four years. Dang underachievers

[SecretAgentMan]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347940466' post='1157389']
Most people realize that, but the HC and QB are going to get all the credit / blame. I blame Harbaugh and Flacco for us being the only team in the league to make the postseason each of the last four years. Dang underachievers
[/quote]
True we will rebound

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347940466' post='1157389']
Most people realize that, but the HC and QB are going to get all the credit / blame. I blame Harbaugh and Flacco for us being the only team in the league to make the postseason each of the last four years. Dang underachievers
[/quote]

You'd be surprised how many fans still don't understand what a head coach does. Some fans look at coaches who've doubled as play-callers (Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, etc.) and assume that every Super Bowl-winning coach must be a play-caller.

[IMissMattStover]

Harbs is the best coach there is, and I trust his judgement.

[flynismo]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1347941085' post='1157408']
You'd be surprised how many fans still don't understand what a head coach does. Some fans look at coaches who've doubled as play-callers (Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, etc.) and assume that every Super Bowl-winning coach must be a play-caller.
[/quote]

Interesting, I've always just assumed everyone realizes that. I mean why would we need Cam or Pees if Harbaugh called the shots lol...I guess to be scapegoats for Harbaugh's "failures"

[flynismo]

Actually let me apologize to the OP.

I assumed this was another knee-jerk reaction calling for Harbs' head without reading it, but after going through some of the posts, I see that was not his intent.

Sorry, OP!

-- Edit --

Has anyone given an actual, you know....answer to him yet? lol

Just think of the HC as a delegate ... well, at least (especially) our one, and one of the main orchestrators of our weekly game plans.

[T3hRaven]

[quote name='theFRANCHISE' timestamp='1347941085' post='1157408']
You'd be surprised how many fans still don't understand what a head coach does. Some fans look at coaches who've doubled as play-callers (Sean Payton, Bill Belichick, etc.) and assume that every Super Bowl-winning coach must be a play-caller.
[/quote]

No one is saying Harbaugh has to be a play caller. My point is he's done a piss poor job of putting coordinators and staff around him who are capable of calling a competent game on a week to week basis. His only good choice at coordinator was Pagano, but he's gone.

I just don't understand why Harbaugh is an untouchable topic. He has made some very poor choices during his tenure, with the biggest of his black marks being Cam Cameron.

[flynismo]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347941888' post='1157421']
No one is saying Harbaugh has to be a play caller. My point is he's done a piss poor job of putting coordinators and staff around him who are capable of calling a competent game on a week to week basis. His only good choice at coordinator was Pagano, but he's gone.

I just don't understand why Harbaugh is an untouchable topic. He has made some very poor choices during his tenure, with the biggest of his black marks being Cam Cameron.
[/quote]

Mattison was a great choice as well, even though the fans did not like him.
Cam, well....I can agree with you there, but I guess he joke is on us, because we win more than nearly any other team out there.

[theFRANCHISE]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347941888' post='1157421']
No one is saying Harbaugh has to be a play caller. My point is he's done a piss poor job of putting coordinators and staff around him who are capable of calling a competent game on a week to week basis. His only good choice at coordinator was Pagano, but he's gone.

I just don't understand why Harbaugh is an untouchable topic. He has made some very poor choices during his tenure, with the biggest of his black marks being Cam Cameron.
[/quote]

I'm not insinuating that anyone's (yet) said Harbaugh has to be a play-caller, but I brought it up because it's inevitably come up in every discussion about what he does.

It's not that Harbaugh is an untouchable topic. Rather, I'm quick to defend him because he's done far more good than bad. Even with our frustration with Cam Cameron, there are other teams who have the same gripes we do [i]and[/i] are far worse off.

We all have a right to vent and be frustrated and whatnot. I just choose not to analyze things mid-season because I remember too vividly the bad years in 2005 and 2007. I remember that feeling of supporting a losing team. I took the Ravens' success for granted. I never, ever want to make that same mistake again.

[flynismo]

You know what I appreciate most about him? The discipline that he has instlled into this team. EVERYONE is accountable (except for Cam apparently)

[PolishRifle]

Coaching. Play calling or the on the field stuff is not part of his talent, but he knows how to coach up players. Think about the growth he gets out of our players and how good they become in general. That's his talent and there is nothing wrong with that.

The problem with play calling is, that it is annoying. Cam isn't flat out bad all the time. Compare the Cinci game to the Philly game and they look like day and night. I mean, we were really creative in our play calling in our first game. We were constantly changing up plays and routs mixed the run and the pass well together. What happened? It looked like we picked off right there at the very beginning of the Eagles game. We were winning. Yet, somehow even though we were leading by 10 points playing the way we played, we changed everything. Why? We didn't need to adjust. The Eagles had to.
We slowed down our play calling and refused to run, playing into their hand and we never got back to the way we played before. Why? There is no good reason.

I am sorry, but if Harbs would've come out and said "I blew it so Andy Reid would keep his job" I would believe him. I wouldn't even be mad, because I would knew that game #1 was not some lucky accident.

[SizzleSuggs55]

John Harbaugh is a top 5-10 NFL coach, and is without a doubt a HUGE reason why the Baltimore Ravens have been so good in his time at the helm. I love him as a coach and his passion sunday to sunday he has one of the best winning % in the league, but to be 100% honest he did not have much control over over the play calling on arguably both sides of the ball this sunday. He let our defense get torched in the 2nd half because Pees was stubborn and stuck to cover 3 and 4 schemes while Vick continued to burn us.Our front 3 or 4 was not getting any pressure, i was surprised, but it wasn't there. To not change that to even a minimal point, maybe send 6 or 7 and then drop 7 in coverage one the next play etc. Confusing, not raven football. But this is the NFL, and the eagles are good. I also think we should have used Rice more in the game but agree with Harbaugh that if Philly wanted to drop 8 or 9 guys in the box, as they were doing, smarter call is to pass, i just don't know why we showed our hand and went to shotgun twice on, 3rd and 4th and two....Really? way to be obvious..just not good play calling, which Harbaugh should have control over.

[atlravensfan]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1347914017' post='1156723']


PEOPLE act like the FO can do no wrong. Where are Carr, Cundiff, Evans, Mark Clayton, Foxworth etc. Let's not forget we also tried to resign Cary at years 15 mil. Just cause we dont have the job doesn't mean we don't know what we are talking about sometimes. You say somethin g they don't like and try to attack you. I NEVER AGREE WITH GIVING CUNDIFF THAT CONTRACT. I'm also happy Cary declined to resign cause I you t he finishes as the starter this year. I get when people post outrageous stuff but sometimes they over react to people asking a real question. Some people can get scrutinized more than others as well even if one side is more accomplished.
[/quote]

I agree with you. I just hate sometimes how ppl get to sensitive either way whether your pro or con or somewhere in the middle. Lets be honest Harbaugh has been out coached before. Their is absolutely no excuse for leaving two time outs on the field with the game that close.

If your going to pay RR then you got to give him the ball. I said before the season if your going to open the off up then you should have given that money to a new tackle or receiver for Joe. Why pay him top back money and only play him half the game?

My post was more agreeing with you cause I hate how you have to be so pro everything all the time.

[SizzleSuggs55]

Do people not understand that Philly was constantly dropping 8 even 9 guys in the box and sending all out blitz? Rice didn't get as many touches as he should have, but i think people forget that rice actually had 2 more carries in the 2nd half than the first, his YPC was terrible. Nine carries for 21 yards in the 2nd, and 7 carries for 78 yards in the first half. a 2.3 yard per carry average isn't very good. I hate the last two plays of the game, but besides that, offensive play calling wasn't terrible it was the defensive play calling.

[PeRK82]

Harbs is good with his speeches that include the SHIELD AND KATANA SWORD, LOL

I gotta keep it real, but that was pretty cheesy.

[TreTheRaven]

And my question is, what posting are you good at?

[ratedr]

[quote name='TreTheRaven' timestamp='1348098716' post='1159057']
And my question is, what posting are you good at?
[/quote]Stimulating discussion apparently, as this thread is 6 pages and counting.

[admartian]

He's not your traditional Xs and Os guy like Bellicheck; but there are many different types of coaches in the game.

You get managerial types like Andy Reid, motivators like Dungy, technical guys like Kubiak etc.

It's about the right fit in terms of the whole team and organisation.

[wayne]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1347914070' post='1156725']
I thought I gave plenty of examples earlier. But I will try again.



He does the same stuff that all the other non-playing head coaches (which is pretty much most of the coaches in the NFL) do during games. He gives input on play selections, manages the clock, makes the tough calls, punt/FG/Go for it decisions, arguing with the refs. Its nothing exciting, but it keeps these coaches busy. I know most fans want coaches (and John) to be doing more in-game, but this is the norm.

A head coach really makes his pay during the week. Approving, reviewing and tweaking game plans. People underestimate the process and element of a game plan. Obviously John is getting it done because we win more games than not. But John also excels in getting the players focused and motivated (which is one of the prime reasons why the FO and Owner hired him). He has great respect from the players of this team and he keeps them as a team (a lot of head coach lose their players and as a result lose games).

[b]To me John is best at holding the whole 'winning' formula together rather than in-game decision making. He manages the players and coaches throughout the year. Everything goes through him. The game plans, the packages, the starters, personnel inputs etc. [/b]And the fact that we are winning games is evidence as to the success John is having as a head coach.
[/quote]

....... and you know this how?

[wayne]

[quote name='SizzleSuggs55' timestamp='1347995113' post='1157944']
[b]Do people not understand that Philly was constantly dropping 8 even 9 guys in the box and sending all out blitz?[/b] Rice didn't get as many touches as he should have, but i think people forget that rice actually had 2 more carries in the 2nd half than the first, his YPC was terrible. Nine carries for 21 yards in the 2nd, and 7 carries for 78 yards in the first half. a 2.3 yard per carry average isn't very good. I hate the last two plays of the game, but besides that, offensive play calling wasn't terrible it was the defensive play calling.
[/quote]

What game did you watch b/c they wasn't constantly doing that. They were constantly sending their front 4 and dropping 7 back which seems to be our weakness.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1348102938' post='1159096']
What game did you watch b/c they wasn't constantly doing that. They were constantly sending their front 4 and dropping 7 back which seems to be our weakness.
[/quote]
Yeah they basically sent their 4 rushers and had the linebackers drop back and cover Pitta, which was the only guy with any breathing room the entire second half. And even still, he was double/triple teamed a lot. Smart by Philly once they learned they could shut our wideouts down by grabbing them.

[JO_75]

He is good at getting us to the playoffs the past four consecutive seasons, and half of the time getting us to the AFC Title game. I'm also sure he is good at this coaching thing, I mean 45-21 record in the regular season which equals to a .682 winning percentage. Now while I will say he has to improve his playoff record from 5-4 but considering we have won 5 of the 9 playoff games we have been in over the past four years, I say he is definitely got this Head Coaching thing down.

[go4ravens]

This team had nooooo discipline before Harbs. We even still struggled after he got here, but after all those penalties in 09, he really got everybody under control.

[BMORElegacy]

[quote name='go4ravens' timestamp='1348153912' post='1159352']
This team had nooooo discipline before Harbs. We even still struggled after he got here, but after all those penalties in 09, he really got everybody under control.
[/quote]2009 was the year of defensive pass interference. It was ugly there for a bit with the likes of Frank Walker in the secondary.

[jazz1988]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1348104648' post='1159115']
Yeah they basically sent their 4 rushers and had the linebackers drop back and cover Pitta, which was the only guy with any breathing room the entire second half. And even still, he was double/triple teamed a lot. Smart by Philly once they learned they could shut our wideouts down by grabbing them.
[/quote]


They were also double covering Boldin every time he went in the slot. Overall the eagles defense were in a cover two type scheme which is some thing Joe Flacco seems to have trouble with at times(some could say thats cams fault)

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1347915466' post='1156760']
You're right. Lets fire Harbaugh. Trade all our players for draft picks and see if we get lucky during the 2013 draft.
[/quote]

Didn't say that. You can be facetious as you like, but the fact still remains -- one game can be costly. "foresight."

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1348102938' post='1159096']
What game did you watch b/c they wasn't constantly doing that. They were constantly sending their front 4 and dropping 7 back which seems to be our weakness.
[/quote]

I'd like to know how you send an all out blitz when you're dropping everyone too lol.