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wayne

Smashmouth style needs to fin it's way back into our gameplan

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With the holes our O-line has opened up against arguably two of the best D-lines in the league and having the best FB in the game in Leach, we need to bring this style back to the forefront. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we can't win by being a team that throws the ball 50+ times and this is no knock on Flacco but I feel our strength lies more in a smash mouth approach than Tom Brady'ing it up the field. Our O-line has done good in the pass protection department but it has done great in the run blocking department.

I'm loving the sugar huddle but I feel when we do it, we rarely run when doing it and we have more of our pass personnel on the field with Leach looking from the sidelines. I just imagine with how good Flacco is now with us going back to a smash mouth approach working the PA, would be a deadily combo and when we need Flacco to throw the ball 50 times, he can.
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Most fans really don't understand why the offense worked in week 1 and was working in the first half of week 2. Balance was the key, the pass set up and the run. When that happens, it's going to be hard to stop the offense with the weapons that we have. We're not winning through smash mouth football, it's really not possible with our personnel, and I doubt you can do it in today's league.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347845525' post='1155253']
Most fans really don't understand why the offense worked in week 1 and was working in the first half of week 2. Balance was the key, the pass set up and the run. When that happens, it's going to be hard to stop the offense with the weapons that we have. We're not winning through smash mouth football, it's really not possible with our personnel, [b]and I doubt you can do it in today's league.[/b]
[/quote]

I'm looking at the 49ers and Steelers game and I don't know about that. I do agree with you about balance though which we majorly lacked in the 2nd half. Also, put Flacco under center more.
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Smash mouth football i love. But it ends up for most time being a close game.

Can you trust these phony referees to give us the right call on close game? I think not.
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[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1347845647' post='1155264']
I'm looking at the 49ers and Steelers game and I don't know about that. I do agree with you about balance though which we majorly lacked in the 2nd half. Also, put Flacco under center more.
[/quote]

The 49ers play in the weakest division in football. No one in that conference can light it up on a weekly basis. If they were in the NFC North or the NFC South they wouldn't look as good.

And how are the Steelers smash mouth? They've noticeably moved to a passing offense over the years, throwing more balance into the equation does not return them to the 1970's.
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I have nothing against having a strong run game, but as everyone always says, "It's a quarterback driven league."
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347845525' post='1155253']
Most fans really don't understand why the offense worked in week 1 and was working in the first half of week 2. Balance was the key, the pass set up and the run. When that happens, it's going to be hard to stop the offense with the weapons that we have. We're not winning through smash mouth football, it's really not possible with our personnel, and I doubt you can do it in today's league.
[/quote]

What do you mean we can't do it with our personnel? Ray Rice? Leach? Yanda? Pretty good overall run blocking line? Sounds like we could. I am positive you can still win with smash mouth football. Its just harder to come back after committing errors.

Wayne is right. We need to run it more. We were like 1/35 on 3rd down. We gotta run it more.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347845525' post='1155253']
Most fans really don't understand why the offense worked in week 1 and was working in the first half of week 2. Balance was the key, the pass set up and the run. When that happens, it's going to be hard to stop the offense with the weapons that we have. We're not winning through smash mouth football, it's really not possible with our personnel, and I doubt you can do it in today's league.
[/quote]
Could not have said it any better. This is not the 2000 Ravens.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347845525' post='1155253']
Most fans really don't understand why the offense worked in week 1 and was working in the first half of week 2. Balance was the key, the pass set up and the run. When that happens, it's going to be hard to stop the offense with the weapons that we have. We're not winning through smash mouth football, it's really not possible with our personnel, and I doubt you can do it in today's league.
[/quote]

There wasn't much balance last week; we definitely went pass to set up the pass.

I think the big difference was that we did not run the no huddle often or effective enough. Also, Flacco being hurt and playing the most talented set of DBs in the league may have had an affect as well.
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1347846062' post='1155283']
What do you mean we can't do it with our personnel? Ray Rice? Leach? Yanda? Pretty good overall run blocking line? Sounds like we could. I am positive you can still win with smash mouth football. Its just harder to come back after committing errors.

Wayne is right. We need to run it more. We were like 1/35 on 3rd down. We gotta run it more.
[/quote]

Go ahead, run Ray Rice 30 times a game and see how it works out. He's not a power back, he's like Marshall Faulk. He helps in the pass game, is shifty, and is versatile. Also, he's impossible to spot behind the tackles. What offense did Faulk have all that success in? Oh yeah, it was the greatest show on turf. Throw in the zone blocking line scheme, and it's fairly self evident that smash mouth is not in this offense's identity. Birk isn't pancaking anyone to clear the lane at his age.

I'm not denying that at least a few of those 3rd and 2's should have been run plays, but you can't expect to win by running the ball all the time.
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Although the Eagles only averaged 3.1 yards per carry today and it took McCoy 25 carries to accumulate 81 yards (3.24 per carry), they ran over 40 times and controlled the clock on some long drives.

The Ravens had too many 3 and outs that got the D back on the field with no rest.
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[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347846337' post='1155300']
There wasn't much balance last week; we definitely went pass to set up the pass.

I think the big difference was that we did not run the no huddle often or effective enough. Also, Flacco being hurt and playing the most talented set of DBs in the league may have had an affect as well.
[/quote]

1.) We were killing them through the air. It was about the only time I haven't seen Cam Cameron go away from what works during a game.
2.) I have never seen Ray Rice be that effective in a game ever. His YPC was over 6. That's incredible, and it only worked because the offense passed.
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I think if we can successfully run this sugar huddle, it will only benefit our running game. The key word there is successfully, today the eagles pass rush was too much for our o line.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347846547' post='1155310']
1.) We were killing them through the air. It was about the only time I haven't seen Cam Cameron go away from what works during a game.
2.) I have never seen Ray Rice be that effective in a game ever. His YPC was over 6. That's incredible, and it only worked because the offense passed.
[/quote]

Which game we talking about? Last week?
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[quote name='tsizzle95' timestamp='1347846594' post='1155315']
I think if we can successfully run this sugar huddle, it will only benefit our running game. The key word there is successfully, today the eagles pass rush was too much for our o line.
[/quote]

It wasn't too much during the first half. Not saying the offense was perfect in the first half, but it certainly wasn't bad. They were stifled by Cam's poor playcalling throughout the game, it just got worse when they went away from the no huddle.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347846374' post='1155301']
Go ahead, run Ray Rice 30 times a game and see how it works out. He's not a power back, he's like Marshall Faulk. He helps in the pass game, is shifty, and is versatile. Also, he's impossible to spot behind the tackles. What offense did Faulk have all that success in? Oh yeah, it was the greatest show on turf. Throw in the zone blocking line scheme, and it's fairly self evident that smash mouth is not in this offense's identity. Birk isn't pancaking anyone to clear the lane at his age.

I'm not denying that at least a few of those 3rd and 2's should have been run plays, but you can't expect to win by running the ball all the time.
[/quote]

I am in favor of a balanced offense. Not really a smash mouth offense, but a balanced one. We need to get Rice the ball more and its blatantly obvious.
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[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347846630' post='1155319']
Which game we talking about? Last week?
[/quote]

Yes, I addressed you addressing last week.
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I don't understand why we stop running with the way our O-line was opening holes for Ray Rice.

Just a shame that we felll short.
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our o line has become a strength recently. i was really impressed with the run blocking today. but i'm not going to over react to our offense and say switch back to the run first offense. we would've been effective going pass first if we continued the no huddle in the 2nd half but we abandoned it for reasons i can't understand. stay with the gameplan and i know we would've won the game but instead cam goes back to being himself. i would recommend having a clean slate of coordinators after this year.
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Maybe crazy but why can't you have a smash mouth passing game? Why don't we keep leach in more shotgun situations since Cam doesn't seem to mind him in the screen game. We could use him to run or as an extra blocker while sending Rice out wide. With the personnel we have we should be more than able to confuse opponents. Also with Leach out we don't can use th TEs to the best of their ability with the extra protection.
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We abandoned the no-huddle for a lot of the game. If we kept it up, we might have won.
There are about 5 things that if we or the reffs did differently we would have won.
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[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1347846946' post='1155341']
Maybe crazy but why can't you have a smash mouth passing game? Why don't we keep leach in more shotgun situations since Cam doesn't seem to mind him in the screen game. We could use him to run or as an extra blocker while sending Rice out wide. With the personnel we have we should be more than able to confuse opponents. Also with Leach out we don't can use th TEs to the best of their ability with the extra protection.
[/quote]

That's not a half bad idea. Rice is awful in pass pro, you could see him get lit up on multiple shotgun plays. Leach would not be such an easy out.
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The offense needs to find a consistent tempo of their own, because even when we run a hurry up, the offense doesn't look like it knows when it wants to snap it. Like Peyton, Brady, Rodgers might hurry to the line then decide to read the defense or hurry to line quick snap inside WR route ( extension of run game ). We get to line but at times don't seem to have a clear objective in mind lol.
First half the hurry up and semi-huddle offense was moving the ball with success against Philly keeping their defense off balance, Rice then got huge chunks of yards. As the game continued our tempo seemed to get slower and slower, which meant Philly could comfortably substitute and rotate their linemen once again.

The flow of the game should dictate how much of a balance attack we have but we should still attempt to run the ball 20-25 times regardless so that defense will our the play action pass.

Today's game the run game was gashing them early on and we had a 10 pt lead at half time, so more short passes and runs to get first downs and run clock should have been in the plan... Also getting more runs and short passes for first downs would have kept the defense off the field giving them rest.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347845870' post='1155275']
The 49ers play in the weakest division in football. No one in that conference can light it up on a weekly basis. If they were in the NFC North or the NFC South they wouldn't look as good.

And how are the Steelers smash mouth? They've noticeably moved to a passing offense over the years, throwing more balance into the equation does not return them to the 1970's.
[/quote]I understand what wayne is talking about. This is a copy cat league. Since Manning is so good with the NO huddle everyone wants to be like mike...If you looked close to what the Steelers did today and the direction the team is going. It will be considered Smash mouth football. What do you consider the likes of a Redman, Dwyer , Bettis type of backs? We have a very good receiving core, NEVERTHELESS. We punished the Jets on the Ground. Rice was a beast on the ground today. Why did they stop pounding?
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[quote name='SteelerStorm' timestamp='1347847481' post='1155373']
I understand what wayne is talking about. This is a copy cat league. Since Manning is so good with the NO huddle everyone wants to be like mike...If you looked close to what the Steelers did today and the direction the team is going. It will be considered Smash mouth football. What do you consider the likes of a Redman, Dwyer , Bettis type of backs? We have a very good receiving core, NEVERTHELESS. We punished the Jets on the Ground. Rice was a beast on the ground today. Why did they stop pounding?
[/quote]

I hear ya man. PIT are still as "smashmouth" as it gets.

To answer your question, I think you already know the answer to that -- our OC is an incompetent fool.
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[quote name='SteelerStorm' timestamp='1347847481' post='1155373']
I understand what wayne is talking about. This is a copy cat league. Since Manning is so good with the NO huddle everyone wants to be like mike...If you looked close to what the Steelers did today and the direction the team is going. It will be considered Smash mouth football. What do you consider the likes of a Redman, Dwyer , Bettis type of backs? We have a very good receiving core, NEVERTHELESS. We punished the Jets on the Ground. Rice was a beast on the ground today. Why did they stop pounding?
[/quote]

He must didn't look at the Steelers-Jets game today ,lol. Look at the Niners-Lions game right now. Also, it's not just about the smash mouth style but controlling the clock and when we control the clock, it seems like we have more success doing that and it's a statistic to back that up. I think the Eagles killed us on TOP but I could be wrong. You can either kill or stop momentum from shifting with controlling the clock. We have the personnel to run smash mouth football and until Flacco and Co can prove they can consistently win with the Brady approach, we need to stick with running Rice more than less.

This game reminds me of playing Seattle and Jacksonville last season and playing the Bengals also with us constantly going 3 and out living in Shotgun 2 back with the opposition just rushing their front 4. We were gashing the Eagles with the run, no way we should have abandoned it like we did in the 2nd quarter with a 10 point lead.
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I'm loving the 49ers play calling and we have the personnel to do just that and WHEN we need to air it out Brady style, Flacco always can resort to that if need be. Balance with a blend of smash mouth would be a great recipe for us, not Flacco throwing the ball 50+ times a game. You have two of the best in the business at what they do in Leach and Rice with Yanda, KO, Birk, Oher, and Harewood to boot who are all 320+ with the exception of Birk, use it.

Rushing your front 4 and running a Cover 2 man seems to be our kryptonite and it's only like that when we abandon the run.
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[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1347845343' post='1155246']
With the holes our O-line has opened up against arguably two of the best D-lines in the league and having the best FB in the game in Leach, we need to bring this style back to the forefront. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we can't win by being a team that throws the ball 50+ times and this is no knock on Flacco but I feel our strength lies more in a smash mouth approach than Tom Brady'ing it up the field. Our O-line has done good in the pass protection department but it has done great in the run blocking department.

I'm loving the sugar huddle but I feel when we do it, we rarely run when doing it and we have more of our pass personnel on the field with Leach looking from the sidelines. I just imagine with how good Flacco is now with us going back to a smash mouth approach working the PA, would be a deadily combo and when we need Flacco to throw the ball 50 times, he can.
[/quote]

Have to disagree with moving back to "smash mouth football". Week 1 worked so well because we gave Flacco more control to make decisions and call audibles, used the no huddle %50 of plays, and used the quick huddle the rest. That combo allowed more throwing options and opened up the run. Today against the Eagles (Week 2) it's like Cam Cameron threw away most of that success because he wanted to call all the shots, which were horrible. If you watched the game it was pretty close to "smash mouth". We kept running on 1st & 2nd down and throwing on 3rd like we did with Brian Billick and Kyle Boller for years. Its boring and predictable and will not make you a contender in the NFL today. Week 3 we need to give the control back to Flacco, more no huddle, more options, etc...
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i disagree with this as well and i think you're over reacting to the offensive performance and forget the real reason we didn't go anywhere. we were fine until cam made a bonehead decision to take the offense back for himself and the handcuffing continues. when will the cameron era ever end. everyone who is saying give ray the ball 25-30 times are the same people who were mad because we were having too many 3 and outs. well what do you expect, run run pass gets you in a lot of 3rd downs. stick with the no huddle but don't abandon it after you DESTROYED YOUR LAST OPPONENT CAM!!
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[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1347846062' post='1155283']
What do you mean we can't do it with our personnel? Ray Rice? Leach? Yanda? Pretty good overall run blocking line? Sounds like we could. I am positive you can still win with smash mouth football. Its just harder to come back after committing errors.

Wayne is right. We need to run it more. We were like 1/35 on 3rd down. We gotta run it more.
[/quote]

I agree with you guys. We wearing killing it on the run through the first 10 carries, Rice had 95 yards. He finished with 16 carries and the last 6 were when Cam was trying to run the clock out. We dropped back 45 times today, which is way too much with a team that has arguably the best running back in the game. A question to ponder is how many screens did we run today to slow down that pass rush?
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[quote name='ScottCochran' timestamp='1347849403' post='1155508']
Have to disagree with moving back to "smash mouth football". Week 1 worked so well because we gave Flacco more control to make decisions and call audibles, used the no huddle %50 of plays, and used the quick huddle the rest. That combo allowed more throwing options and opened up the run. Today against the Eagles (Week 2) it's like Cam Cameron threw away most of that success because he wanted to call all the shots, which were horrible. [b]If you watched the game it was pretty close to "smash mouth". [/b] We kept running on 1st & 2nd down and throwing on 3rd like we did with Brian Billick and Kyle Boller for years. Its boring and predictable and will not make you a contender in the NFL today. Week 3 we need to give the control back to Flacco, more no huddle, more options, etc...
[/quote]

I have to disagree big time, no where close to playing smash mouth football today, no where close.
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[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1347850089' post='1155548']


I have to disagree big time, no where close to playing smash mouth football today, no where close.
[/quote]

Not even an iota of a "smash mouth" game.
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[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1347850052' post='1155545']
i disagree with this as well and i think you're over reacting to the offensive performance and forget the real reason we didn't go anywhere. we were fine until cam made a bonehead decision to take the offense back for himself and the handcuffing continues. when will the cameron era ever end. everyone who is saying give ray the ball 25-30 times are the same people who were mad because we were having too many 3 and outs. well what do you expect, run run pass gets you in a lot of 3rd downs. stick with the no huddle but don't abandon it after you DESTROYED YOUR LAST OPPONENT CAM!!
[/quote]

Yea, Cam see that the no huddle works but yet he takes that away from Flacco and the O for no reason, makes sense I guess. He stopped with the no huddle when the incomplete passes started piling up including a few close interceptions as well as a interception. You can't do the no huddle if you throwing incomplete passes.
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[quote name='wayne' timestamp='1347850290' post='1155559']
Yea, Cam see that the no huddle works but yet he takes that away from Flacco and the O for no reason, makes sense I guess. He stopped with the no huddle when the incomplete passes started piling up including a few close interceptions as well as a interception. You can't do the no huddle if you throwing incomplete passes.
[/quote]

the way he keeps the no huddle going is giving joe shorter passes. i am still really mad we didn't run a single screen when the eagles were blitzing a lot. the offense not getting completions is still no reason for him to "take the offense back".
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[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1347846895' post='1155338']
our o line has become a strength recently. i was really impressed with the run blocking today. but i'm not going to over react to our offense and say switch back to the run first offense. we would've been effective going pass first if we continued the no huddle in the 2nd half but we abandoned it for reasons i can't understand. stay with the gameplan and i know we would've won the game but instead cam goes back to being himself. i would recommend having a clean slate of coordinators after this year.
[/quote]I still want Norv Turner :(
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[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1347850536' post='1155570']
the way he keeps the no huddle going is giving joe shorter passes. i am still really mad we didn't run a single screen when the eagles were blitzing a lot. [b]the offense not getting completions is still no reason for him to "take the offense back".[/b]
[/quote]

He didn't take it back, it was inevitably giving back to him with that many in-completions. Flacco went one stretch with like 6 straight in -completions and I think he was like 4-16 at one point in the 2nd half.
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[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1347850595' post='1155574']
I still want Norv Turner :(
[/quote]

He runs the same ineffective offensive system that Cam does, just slightly better, so I can't imagine why. I want a completely different change in direction. I'm pulling for Caldwell so we can get the old Manning offense truly installed.
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[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1347850776' post='1155591']
He runs the same ineffective offensive system that Cam does, just slightly better, so I can't imagine why. I want a completely different change in direction. I'm pulling for Caldwell so we can get the old Manning offense truly installed.
[/quote]I want Norv because it does work if the playcaller is effective. Joe has been in this system for 5 years. Why make him learn a totally new system when you could get a guy who can run the offense MUCH BETTER. Norv is a great offensive play caller but a lousy head coach. Just look at Rivers' numbers once Cam left....
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[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1347850595' post='1155574']
I still want Norv Turner :(
[/quote]

i don't have a coordinator of choice right now. All i want from the next guy is someone that
B. gives the offense to joe (0 no huddle in 2nd half???)
C. Makes smart decisions (shotgun on 3rd and 1???)
D. Uses personnel correctly (no leach in 2nd half????)

the phrases in parentheses are what cam did wrong today with that criteria alone.
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Well, look at Alex Smith numbers compared to Stafford and Niners use more of a smash mouth approach and Lions used the opposite approach. Smash mouth approach with a good D can still be pretty effective. They controlled the clock perfectly.
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[quote name='RavensWin09' timestamp='1347851322' post='1155616']
i don't have a coordinator of choice right now. All i want from the next guy is someone that
B. gives the offense to joe (0 no huddle in 2nd half???)
C. Makes smart decisions (shotgun on 3rd and 1???)
D. Uses personnel correctly (no leach in 2nd half????)

[b]the phrases in parentheses are what cam did wrong today with that criteria alone.[/b]
[/quote] I hadn't noticed ;)
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[quote name='PolishRifle' timestamp='1347851400' post='1155618']
We abondoned the no-huddle too fast.
[/quote]There was no need to abandon it. It was working. Joe orchestrated a beautiful drive that ended in that Leach TD. It didn't make any sense why they stopped...
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[quote name='BMORElegacy' timestamp='1347852380' post='1155665']
There was no need to abandon it. It was working. Joe orchestrated a beautiful drive that ended in that Leach TD. It didn't make any sense why they stopped...
[/quote]

I think a good 60/40 mix between pass and run, passing to set up the run, in the no-huddle would be perfect for this team.

I don't want us to go back to smashmouth. It's just a style, that limits our chances to put up points. Then everything depends on one play and suddenly Lee Evans drops the gamewinning touchdown. I hope Cameron and Harbaugh stay commited to the up-tempo offense and don't chicken out of it just because some fans and analysts will bellyache that we lost against the Eagles in Philly by one point.
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Is it just me, or did we hardly run play action at all yesterday? I don't remember any play fakes off the top of my head. And I agree, smashmouth does need to come back. We really should have been running the ball in the third quarter.
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[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1347913852' post='1156714']
Is it just me, or did we hardly run play action at all yesterday? I don't remember any play fakes off the top of my head. And I agree, smashmouth does need to come back. We really should have been running the ball in the third quarter.
[/quote]

We needed more play action for sure
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[url="http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1337333-how-did-joe-flacco-go-from-week-1-dominance-to-struggling-in-week-2"]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1337333-how-did-joe-flacco-go-from-week-1-dominance-to-struggling-in-week-2[/url]

A decent breakdown of why we lost against the Eagles. PROBABLY by some irate fan who is looking for anyTHING or anyONE to blame...
Also i haven't seen anything on a Flacco injury in a NFL insider so it can't be that bad..
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PA only really fools the defense if you are committed to the run in the game, we were not committed to the run that last game what so ever,
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If you can't line up on 3rd and 2 or 3rd and 1 and run for a first down you are going to have problems. Remember when we use to run out the jumbo package, everybody on gods earth knew we were running but they couldnt do anything about it. Its an attitude. The idea that we have to pass on third and short all the time is insane.
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[quote name='XxSizzleXx' timestamp='1347927959' post='1157020']
PA only really fools the defense if you are committed to the run in the game, we were not committed to the run that last game what so ever,
[/quote] Plus it allows the edge rushers more time to get to the QB; providing they don't bite.

Though that's not usually their assignment.
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