Upshaw and McClain at Olb?

[KillaBirdTJ]

I know it has only been 1 game, but Krugar appears to be a major downgrade from JJ, and McClellan looked even worse... Upshaw out performed both, and Ellerbee looked good beside Ray-Ray in the Middle.

McClain is a natural at Olb, as this was his college position... I think he'd be especially good at setting the edge, and has shown a knack for getting into the backfield.

This would save us $$$ if it worked out, otherwise I see us making a trade for someone. Thoughts?

[berad]

McClain was a college DE, iirc, but I get the point. I don't know why they moved him to ILB after he made the team and showed some talent at OLB. I guess we had too many OLBs and had to compensate for losing Scott...

I still like McClain at ILB, Ellerbe had a good game on Monday but was bad/hurt in 2011. The OLBs we have now will get better, they're both starting for the first time.

[KillaBirdTJ]

I
[quote name='berad' timestamp='1347551397' post='1149746']
McClain was a college DE, iirc, but I get the point. I don't know why they moved him to ILB after he made the team and showed some talent at OLB. I guess we had too many OLBs and had to compensate for losing Scott...

I still like McClain at ILB, Ellerbe had a good game on Monday but was bad/hurt in 2011. [i][b]The OLBs we have now will get better, they're both starting for the first time[/b][/i].
[/quote]

I hope so bro...

[BloodRaven]

I always thought McClain would be a great 6ft leverage type OLB like Harrison and Dumervil, but to generate that sort of power they both clock in around 260-265lb, McClain is at 240lb now after dropping 10lb in the offseason.

[Ravensfan23]

I wouldn't over react to the olb play in week one. As a fan base all we kno is Suggs, JJ, AD, and for some of us, Peter Bo, and J Sharper. Right now none of our OLBs looks to be that caliber, but it was their first start, with a new DC.

The defense as a whole will be a work in progress. The good thing about our OLBs, is that they all started playing better in the 2nd half along with the rest of the Defense.

Now yes, it can be said that the offense forced the Bengals out of their game with the score, so they weren't running as much any more. However they still improved their play once they settled in.

Also the Bengals really game planned against our OLBs with a lot of screens and misdirection plays and it worked.

All 3 of our OLBs had at least a half sack and Upshaw was the one who forced the Reed Int. Kurger didn't get credit for a sack, but on Ngata's first sack, Kurger hit Dalton as well.

Also lets not forget that the Bengals have had success running the ball against us the last 2-3 years, so lets not act like the OLBs was the only reason the Bengals had success.

I believe things will definitely get better as the defense get more comfortable with Pees and vice versa

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1347553523' post='1149773']
I wouldn't over react to the olb play in week one. As a fan base all we kno is Suggs, JJ, AD, and for some of us, Peter Bo, and J Sharper. Right now none of our OLBs looks to be that caliber, but it was their first start, with a new DC.

The defense as a whole will be a work in progress. The good thing about our OLBs, is that they all started playing better in the 2nd half along with the rest of the Defense.

Now yes, it can be said that the offense forced the Bengals out of their game with the score, so they weren't running as much any more. However they still improved their play once they settled in.

Also the Bengals really game planned against our OLBs with a lot of screens and misdirection plays and it worked.

All 3 of our OLBs had at least a half sack and Upshaw was the one who forced the Reed Int. Kurger didn't get credit for a sack, but on Ngata's first sack, Kurger hit Dalton as well.

Also lets not forget that the Bengals have had success running the ball against us the last 2-3 years, so lets not act like the OLBs was the only reason the Bengals had success.

[b]I believe things will definitely get better as the defense get more comfortable with Pees and vice versa[/b]
[/quote]

Im shocked Krugar looks this bad.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1347553523' post='1149773']
I wouldn't over react to the olb play in week one. As a fan base all we kno is Suggs, JJ, AD, and for some of us, Peter Bo, and J Sharper. Right now none of our OLBs looks to be that caliber, but it was their first start, with a new DC.

The defense as a whole will be a work in progress. The good thing about our OLBs, is that they all started playing better in the 2nd half along with the rest of the Defense.

Now yes, it can be said that the offense forced the Bengals out of their game with the score, so they weren't running as much any more. However they still improved their play once they settled in.

Also the Bengals really game planned against our OLBs with a lot of screens and misdirection plays and it worked.

All 3 of our OLBs had at least a half sack and Upshaw was the one who forced the Reed Int. Kurger didn't get credit for a sack, but on Ngata's first sack, Kurger hit Dalton as well.

Also lets not forget that the Bengals have had success running the ball against us the last 2-3 years, so lets not act like the OLBs was the only reason the Bengals had success.

I believe things will definitely get better as the defense get more comfortable with Pees and vice versa
[/quote]

Totally agree. I think we struggle against inside rushes when WCO spread us out. The difference this year is that because we can pile on points down the stress, we can now force those WCO's to stop dinking and dunking down the field late in games and to eventually abandon the run.

Re: The OLBs. The jury is still out on McClellan in my book but I honestly don't expect much from him. As for Kruger, I think it's clear that he just isn't an instinctive player. He's not the kind of guy that's going to go out and just know what to do. Fortunately, he has all the physical tools and an amazing work ethic. He's the type of guy who needs reps in the game to teach his body what he needs to do in various situations. He's like the polar opposite of AD. I like a guy like Kruger better though, because he's never going to get an inflated sense of self-worth. I think we're going to see him come on strong around game 6 and we'll have a solid contributor rotating with Upshaw for years to come.

[flynismo]

[quote name='beasy2487' timestamp='1347556284' post='1149797']


Totally agree. I think we struggle against inside rushes when WCO spread us out. The difference this year is that because we can pile on points down the stress, we can now force those WCO's to stop dinking and dunking down the field late in games and to eventually abandon the run.

Re: The OLBs. The jury is still out on McClellan in my book but I honestly don't expect much from him. As for Kruger, I think it's clear that he just isn't an instinctive player. He's not the kind of guy that's going to go out and just know what to do. Fortunately, he has all the physical tools and an amazing work ethic. He's the type of guy who needs reps in the game to teach his body what he needs to do in various situations. He's like the polar opposite of AD. I like a guy like Kruger better though, because he's never going to get an inflated sense of self-worth. I think we're going to see him come on strong around game 6 and we'll have a solid contributor rotating with Upshaw for years to come.
[/quote]

Disagree big time regarding Kruger. His intelligence and instincts allow him to play at a higher level with relatively limited athleticism. It stuns me to see how many people forget how great he has played when given a chance and are judging him on 1(!) off game.

[beasy2487]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347556833' post='1149804']
Disagree big time regarding Kruger. His intelligence and instincts allow him to play at a higher level with relatively limited athleticism. It stuns me to see how many people forget how great he has played when given a chance and are judging him on 1(!) off game.
[/quote]

I'm not sure about that. If that were true I think he would've overtaken JJ much sooner. Whereas last year, he got better the more reps he got. Also, McPhee even said that the guy's athleticism is off the charts. So again, if he had amazing intelligence, natural instincts, AND that athleticism I think he would be destroying the league. I'm not saying the guy isn't a great player. I'm saying he's going to need reps to become the player we all know he can be.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1347556833' post='1149804']


Disagree big time regarding Kruger. His intelligence and instincts allow him to play at a higher level with relatively limited athleticism. It stuns me to see how many people forget how great he has played when given a chance and are judging him on 1(!) off game.
[/quote]
Regarding his instincts and intelligence, didn't he get two interceptions? I remember one against PIT and another. I can't remember.

I think he has football IQ & instincts. He just needs to get comfortable from the looks of it. He looks more uncomfortable than anything.

[jazz1988]

I think we as fans have to understand that Mccellan and Krugar are first time starters and are really just adjusting to their new found responsibility which may consist of them looking bad here and there but they should get better moving forward. The idea of putting mcclain at outside linebacker is cool but in my opinion i think he should stay at inside linebacker,


We know you can never have too many pass rushers so i dont mind the ravens trading or signing a particular player to help out with the pass rush.

[reediddy]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1347551118' post='1149742']
I know it has only been 1 game, but Krugar appears to be a major downgrade from JJ, and McClellan looked even worse... Upshaw out performed both, and Ellerbee looked good beside Ray-Ray in the Middle.

McClain is a natural at Olb, as this was his college position... I think he'd be especially good at setting the edge, and has shown a knack for getting into the backfield.

This would save us $$$ if it worked out, otherwise I see us making a trade for someone. Thoughts?
[/quote]

I remember Jameel's first in-game action with us was at OLB and he was destructive, to be honest. Ellerbe, I agree he looked good in the middle, good pursuit on most plays. I think it's too fast to demote Kruger, but at least we have alternatives available.

Upshaw is just tenacious, I think he needs to start. The more PT he gets, the better he will get.

[BloodRaven]

It's definitely too early to call Kruger and Kindle busts, this season will be the first time these guys see significant snaps. Remember that these guys are free agents in the offseason, if they can't put it together they won't be re-signed.

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='reediddy' timestamp='1347558289' post='1149824']
I remember Jameel's first in-game action with us was at OLB and he was destructive, to be honest. Ellerbe, I agree he looked good in the middle, good pursuit on most plays. [b]I think it's too fast to demote Kruger, but at least we have alternatives available.[/b]

Upshaw is just tenacious, I think he needs to start. The more PT he gets, the better he will get.
[/quote]

I agree, but I would give him maybe three games tops to show major improvement. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing what Kindle, and this new pass rusher we signed to the practice squad can do in a real game. I wouldn't be surprised if Upshaw started this week with Krugar...

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='jazz1988' timestamp='1347558283' post='1149822']
[b]I think we as fans have to understand that Mccellan and Krugar are first time starters and are really just adjusting to their new found responsibility which may consist of them looking bad here and there but they should get better moving forward[/b]. The idea of putting mcclain at outside linebacker is cool but in my opinion i think he should stay at inside linebacker,


We know you can never have too many pass rushers so i dont mind the ravens trading or signing a particular player to help out with the pass rush.
[/quote]

I think we may be a little spoiled because of the high calibler Olb's we have had in the past (Suggs, JJ, Boulware, Sharper, AD)... Im just not used to seeing performances out of our Olb's like what we witnessed on MNF(Smh). I personally wouldn't mind bringing in someone to help out either...

[hawkprey]

It wasn't that terrible. They didn't get much pressure, but tackle is the strong point of Cincy's O-line. They didn't set the edge well, but a lot of Green-Ellis's yards came from YAC when our guys were trying desperately to be the first to rip the ball out of his hands. That includes Ray Lewis. If we weren't trying to break his non-fumble streak I'll bet he'd have gotten somewhere in the 4.0-4.3 YPC range. Give 'em a little more time.

[Gordo52]

If it doesn't improve after week 3 then I would be down with it. Of course if Ellerbee still looks good.

[Corvus]

I'm giving Kruger and McClellan a few more weeks for improvement myself before I start calling them out. It was McClellan's second start and Kruger's first since 2009 when he was credited for one start. Both are pretty inexperienced to setting that edge in a real game and I feel comfortable that they are going to improve with each game.

That said, I never understood the whole move of Jameel to inside linebacker anyway. He was a 4-3 end at Syracuse, most of those guys translate to an outside 'backer in a 3-4 defense as our base d is. He had a couple of sacks his rookie season as an OLB and a couple of safeties as well. It would seem he was a more natural OLB but he has done a pretty good job inside IMO as well.

In regards to Ellerbe and McClain, didn't I just read in today's Late For Work that Ellerbe said he was usually in the team's pass coverage packages and McClain was in the team's run stopping packages? If that's the case, it wouldn't hurt to get Jameel in the OLB rotation on those obvious passing situations with Kruger, Upshaw. McClellan, and Kindle and see how he still does pinning his ears backs and coming at the QB.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1347554515' post='1149784']
Im shocked Krugar looks this bad.
[/quote]
It's K R U G E R, with an [b]E[/b], please get it right if you are going to go calling people out. I've been concerned about him throughout the preseason and I question whether he is ready to be a 3 down OLB. I think his best role is in coverage or rushing the passer so maybe you are on to something, but I dont think McClain is the answer.

Generally speaking I think it's easier to go from OLB to ILB than vice versa. OLB is probably the most demanding position on the defensive side of the ball. They have to be able to set the edge against the run, rush the passer and drop into coverage against athletic TEs and RBs.

Last season, Lawrence Timmons the very talented LB in Pitt, had to make this switch and was very underwhelming at OLB. As much as I like Jameel I am not sure he would be able to really provide much more at OLB than Kruger or McClellan. If anything, I would like to see Upshaw start and have Kruger come in for McClellan in sub-packages like he did for JJ last season. I'm not ready to give up on Kruger though either.

[The Raven]

No way! We need McClain at ILB. I don't trust Ellerbe or Ayanbadejo full time at ILB. We'll be fine at OLB. No need to move McClain.

[Bltravens]

Kruger doesn't anchor well, that's his issue. He doesn't hold up when T's or people his own size are running at him to block him. He can do everything else well except anchor against the run. That's why he could never overtake JJ's starting spot. The coaches saw how horse doo doo JJ was at pass rushing, but they also saw Kruger struggle in run defense in practice as well.

[jazz1988]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1347559335' post='1149836']
I think we may be a little spoiled because of the high calibler Olb's we have had in the past (Suggs, JJ, Boulware, Sharper, AD)... Im just not used to seeing performances out of our Olb's like what we witnessed on MNF(Smh). [b]I personally wouldn't mind bringing in someone to help out either...[/b]
[/quote]


understandable and honestly Im not even sure who would really interest the ravens enough to sign/trade for . The only free agents i can think of are Shawne Merriman, Aaron Kampman, and Andre Carter but all three of them have health issues. A player i thought the ravens would had trade for was Eagles Defensive end Daryl Tapp but i doubt they would trade for him now since they play the eagles sunday

[bMore Heathen]

I would look at Ellerbe and Upshaw at OLB. Ellerbe has more speed then McLain, but what do I know... Ellerbe has always been in the middle, but he is better in pass coverage.

[Alexir]

Patience, young Skywalker.

1 game. Let's see how they do this week.