Pass Rush?

[KillaBirdTJ]

[quote name='BOLDnPurPnBlacK' timestamp='1346817100' post='1139785']
Thank you.

Let's give Upshaw time to get reps and play healthy before we're declaring him a bust. He played hurt and because he didn't blow your minds you think he's no good?? The kid will be a stud in time for the Patriots, trust me

Kruger can play, but its his first year with a large role. Let him adjust. Kindle may add some pass rush.

Suggs is a great player but I think our defense makes him even better. Our current guys have the talent. We may see a drop initially [b]but give it a few games before mortgaging the future for a player that will be a waste once Suggs returns... Which he will this season. Book it[/b]
[/quote]

I appreciate the optimism in your post, and hope you are correct... However a few things are on my mind;

1. If the Superbowl is our goal, I feel we need to be dominate from day one Im not comfortable going into the season hoping our pass rush is going to suddenly become dominate. You practice how you play.

2. Remember last year when with just one more win we could have had home field advantage, but instead had the number 2 seed (and we know all to well how that ended), had that game been at M & T Bank... 16-0 should be the goal/mindset of the players, fans, coaches and most importantly the F.O. We need a proven stud that can set the edge and pass rush NOW.

3. The part when you said Mortgaging the future for a player that will be a waste once Suggs returns... smh
How exactly would we be mortgaging the future if we trade for a top talent at OLB or DE? There is no garauntee Suggs will return to form this year or even return at all this year... and if he does then that means we have TWO monsters for offenses to worry about instead of just one. Thats a great problem to have.

All in all... Im not a huge fan of making big splashes in the free agent/trade market because it helps us in the long run to just build throught the draft and develope our home-grown talent... BUT this year we have as good of an opportunity as we ever have to finally dominate this league and take whats rightfully ours! Lets go get that last piece of the puzzle Ozzie!

GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Florida Ravens Fan]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1346855597' post='1139922']


I appreciate the optimism in your post, and hope you are correct... However a few things are on my mind;

1. If the Superbowl is our goal, I feel we need to be dominate from day one Im not comfortable going into the season hoping our pass rush is going to suddenly become dominate. You practice how you play.

2. Remember last year when with just one more win we could have had home field advantage, but instead had the number 2 seed (and we know all to well how that ended), had that game been at M & T Bank... 16-0 should be the goal/mindset of the players, fans, coaches and most importantly the F.O. We need a proven stud that can set the edge and pass rush NOW.

3. The part when you said Mortgaging the future for a player that will be a waste once Suggs returns... smh
How exactly would we be mortgaging the future if we trade for a top talent at OLB or DE? There is no garauntee Suggs will return to form this year or even return at all this year... and if he does then that means we have TWO monsters for offenses to worry about instead of just one. Thats a great problem to have.

All in all... Im not a huge fan of making big splashes in the free agent/trade market because it helps us in the long run to just build throught the draft and develope our home-grown talent... BUT this year we have as good of an opportunity as we ever have to finally dominate this league and take whats rightfully ours! Lets go get that last piece of the puzzle Ozzie!

GO RAVENS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

And who do you suggest that we can afford?

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1346830113' post='1139831']
If your referring to me about upshaw, I thought he wouldn't translate to the Nfl before we even drafted him. Nothing to do with his injury or how he played in preseason, I just didn't think he would fit to well and didn't want him here, was disappointed when we took him
[/quote]

You've made it very clear where you stand with Courtney Upshaw. Bama player or not I completely disagree and yeah, I know I've said that before. I trust Ozzie and his judgement and his ability to evaluate a player. I'm not saying he can't be wrong.. But I have seen people doubt Courtney at Alabama and the fact that he was too thick and slow to be an effective Jack linebacker. No, he is never going to be a JPP racking up 16-20 sacks a year but I think at worst he will end up being a Lamarr Woodley and be in the 10-12 sacks a year range. Mix that with Suggs production starting next year (14-18 sacks/year) and Kruger and we will have some solid outside linebackers. I said this is the other thread but I will say it again.. Courtney is better suited for the SAM position and being an edge setter like Jarrett Johnson while also providing a decent pass rush like Lamarr Woodley. I think Kruger should switch to Rush and get after the QB on most downs where he proved he could be effective last year.

[KillaBirdTJ]

Well Im not sure exactly who is trade bait from the 32 teams but a few names Ive heard recently come to mind...
[quote name='Florida Ravens Fan' timestamp='1346857128' post='1139938']
And who do you suggest that we can afford?
[/quote]

I dont know exactly who could become trade bait amongst the other 31 teams but a few names Ive heard recently come to mind...

1. Darryl Tapp - Eagles have alot of depth there

2. Osi - Giants just gave him a raise so this one may be unlikely, but he does have just 1 year on his contract remaining...

3. Andre Carter (Free agent?)

[BOLDnPurPnBlacK]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1346830113' post='1139831']
If your referring to me about upshaw, I thought he wouldn't translate to the Nfl before we even drafted him. Nothing to do with his injury or how he played in preseason, I just didn't think he would fit to well and didn't want him here, was disappointed when we took him
[/quote]

Wasn't referring to anyone in particular. Just the overall sense that he's already being labeled a disappointment

[Bltravens]

[quote name='ClintLB8' timestamp='1346859544' post='1139951']
You've made it very clear where you stand with Courtney Upshaw. Bama player or not I completely disagree and yeah, I know I've said that before. I trust Ozzie and his judgement and his ability to evaluate a player. I'm not saying he can't be wrong.. But I have seen people doubt Courtney at Alabama and the fact that he was too thick and slow to be an effective Jack linebacker. No, he is never going to be a JPP racking up 16-20 sacks a year [b]but I think at worst he will end up being a Lamarr Woodley and be in the 10-12 sacks a year range[/b]. Mix that with Suggs production starting next year (14-18 sacks/year) and Kruger and we will have some solid outside linebackers. I said this is the other thread but I will say it again.. Courtney is better suited for the SAM position and being an edge setter like Jarrett Johnson while also providing a decent pass rush like Lamarr Woodley. I think Kruger should switch to Rush and get after the QB on most downs where he proved he could be effective last year.
[/quote]
I liked the Upshaw pick, but that is Upshaw's ceiling not his floor. If Upshaw becomes anything consistent in the 6-9 sack range the Ravens will be pretty happy with that opposite Suggs.

[Bltravens]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1346695055' post='1138183']
See, I like Pees, but at the same time, I also worry about how he is going to fit as the man in charge of this defense. I am very confident that the talent is there to produce a defense that.we are accustomed to having in Baltimore. But, I am a little worried having our third different DC in as many seasons...we need stability
[/quote]
Expect more of a Mattison feel than a Pagano feel. Pees was a coverage coordinator not really a pressures guy in New England.

[FWalkerHOF]

[quote name='ClintLB8' timestamp='1346859544' post='1139951']
You've made it very clear where you stand with Courtney Upshaw. Bama player or not I completely disagree and yeah, I know I've said that before. I trust Ozzie and his judgement and his ability to evaluate a player. I'm not saying he can't be wrong.. But I have seen people doubt Courtney at Alabama and the fact that he was too thick and slow to be an effective Jack linebacker. No, he is never going to be a JPP racking up 16-20 sacks a year but I think at worst he will end up being a Lamarr Woodley and be in the 10-12 sacks a year range. Mix that with Suggs production starting next year (14-18 sacks/year) and Kruger and we will have some solid outside linebackers. I said this is the other thread but I will say it again.. Courtney is better suited for the SAM position and being an edge setter like Jarrett Johnson while also providing a decent pass rush like Lamarr Woodley. I think Kruger should switch to Rush and get after the QB on most downs where he proved he could be effective last year.
[/quote]

So much fail in this post.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1346694696' post='1138176']


Then again, I was also the one who cursed up a storm when we drafted Torrey ... lol
[/quote]

And cried for Mike Adams

[GrimCoconut]

One thing I found interesting is the depth chart. Has anyone looked at it? Last I checked, it was as follows:

Rush LB: McClellan, Upshaw
SAM LB: Kruger, Kindle.

I just found that very interesting.

[ClintLB8]

[quote name='FWalkerHOF' timestamp='1346862056' post='1139979']
So much fail in this post.
[/quote]

Which part? The part about how I trust Ozzie? The part where I said he won't be a JPP? The part where I said he is favorable to Lamarr Woodley? Which of those do you not agree with? I will say.. The guy who said it was his ceiling not his floor is probably right. I wasn't clear at all in that sentence.

[Bazooka Joe]

Really there's a lot of panic and overreaction in this thread.

Missing Suggs is a blow. All we still have left is Ngata, Ray, Reed, Webb.

Before last regular season, we didn't know Lardarius was a top 5 shutdown CB. We didn't know that McPhee would be a passrush threat he turned into. Kruger came out of nowhere after showing little in preseason.

Bottom line, Upshaw could end up giving us 8 sacks. Who knows with Kindle. This kid Hamilton will likely be up once he improves ST play.

I know that boards are typical grounds for those that always expect the worst in everything and politic hard for co-signers.

I believe that come game one, we'll be greatly surprised.

[Dudeman]

I'll reserve judgment of our pass rush until maybe a quarter of the way through the season. But I saw evidence of a pretty strong pass rush scheme in our 3rd pre-season game against the Jags and that is the game that should most closely resemble a regular season game.

There is also a prevailing thought that only our linebackers can rush the passer. If that is the case then we may be in big trouble, but it's just not true in todays NFL. I think Bernard Pollard could certainly pick up more pass rush as well as webb and sometimes even Reed. We have great interior push with Ngata, and Kemo/Cody is going to pick up on that as well. Let's also not forget that Ray has slimmed down, and looked good providing pressure not only on the QB but against the RB in the backfield.

I expect our defense to be one of the leagues best this year, even with all the new parts, and even without Suggs for awhile. But I also expect Suggs to come back with a vengeance, much like Reed did a couple of years back. It's possible that Suggs could still get 10 sacks in half a year of play!

[jazz1988]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1346859672' post='1139953']
Well Im not sure exactly who is trade bait from the 32 teams but a few names Ive heard recently come to mind...


I dont know exactly who could become trade bait amongst the other 31 teams but a few names Ive heard recently come to mind...

1.[b] Darryl Tapp - Eagles have alot of depth there[/b]

2. Osi - Giants just gave him a raise so this one may be unlikely, but he does have just 1 year on his contract remaining...

3. Andre Carter (Free agent?)
[/quote]

out of all the suggestion you made Tapp seems like the best option. he's only 28 years old, he's a good pass rusher, he's good against the run, he's a veteran leader, and ravens wouldnt have to give up much for him. The eagles had tapp to take a pay cut this year( he was making 2.5 million). I dont see how the ravens wouldnt be interested in Tapp but i guess it all depends on how Kindle, Upshaw and Mccellan works out

[omar586]

I know pees will blitz every player we have on defense

[omar586]

Pees will blitz ray a lot

[Bazooka Joe]

Injuries to guys like McPhee and Upshaw probably are playing factors into how they are playing. Kindle is in recovery. Again I believe once these guys are healthy, our passrush will be fine.

Also, of Pees's scheme, I see more of a Pagano type aggression that will be on full display in regular season.

So relax.

[flynismo]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1346863207' post='1139988']
And cried for Mike Adams
[/quote]

I'm still crying for him. Not looking forward to another year of McKinnie / Oher

[flynismo]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1346861310' post='1139971']
Expect more of a Mattison feel than a Pagano feel. Pees was a coverage coordinator not really a pressures guy in New England.
[/quote]

I think that was mainly due to personnel...hard to go blitz-crazy when Tully Banta-Cain is your premier pass rusher

[ClintLB8]

I think the pass rush will be fine. I think CU is going to take longer than expected to put it all together but I trust Kruger and McClellan enough until then. I certainly wouldn't mind Tapp if he could be had at the right price.

[redrum52]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1346905895' post='1140677']


I'm still crying for him. Not looking forward to another year of McKinnie / Oher
[/quote]

Mike Adams will be the Steelers Adam Terry. Actually I might be giving him too much credit. Probably more along the lines of Oniel Cousins. He's terrible and I'm happy he's on the Steelers cause he will inflate our pass rush numbers. Oher, McKinnie and KO will be more than capable this season. I do t see Flacco trying to hold onto ball as long. There will be more short and intermediate passes not consisting of just throwing the ball down to Rice.

[GrimCoconut]

[quote name='ClintLB8' timestamp='1346973508' post='1141264']
I think the pass rush will be fine. I think CU is going to take longer than expected to put it all together but I trust Kruger and McClellan enough until then. I certainly wouldn't mind Tapp if he could be had at the right price.
[/quote]
Same here. I feel like the OLBs will get it done regarding pass rush. I am only worried whether or not the OLBs can set the edge and drop into coverage. That's my biggest concern. I feel like our pass rush will be fine.

I think Upshaw will surprise a lot of people.

[flynismo]

[quote name='redrum52' timestamp='1346975040' post='1141289']
Mike Adams will be the Steelers Adam Terry. Actually I might be giving him too much credit. Probably more along the lines of Oniel Cousins. He's terrible and I'm happy he's on the Steelers cause he will inflate our pass rush numbers.
[/quote]

We'll see

[KillaBirdTJ]

I must say... after a slooow start the pass rush looked MUCH better in the second half. The run D did not look like Raven football but i think Pees is on it as we speak! Once Jones, McPhee, Upshaw, McClellean, Krugar, start to get off the ball with more explosion and McClain, and Ellerbee start filling the holes better/faster the front 7 will look alot more like our organized CHAOS...

Perhaps a veteran Olb/De trade is uneccesary, but it is early and we will see how the front 7 looks in Philly!

Lets Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tonyg6996]

I'm still a bit worried about the pass rush. We really weren't getting much pressure on Dalton until the game was getting out of hand, forcing the Bengals to throw more. And this was against a VERY weak O-line, it was the first game as a Bengal for the center and the 2 guards.

Ngata did get going by the end of the game though and ended up with 2 sacks, which is promising. He's going to have to carry a lot of the load if we want a chance.

[Crabcakes&Football]

[quote name='KillaBirdTJ' timestamp='1347403044' post='1148428']
I must say... after a slooow start the pass rush looked MUCH better in the second half. The run D did not look like Raven football but i think Pees is on it as we speak! Once Jones, McPhee, Upshaw, McClellean, Krugar, start to get off the ball with more explosion and McClain, and Ellerbee start filling the holes better/faster the front 7 will look alot more like our organized CHAOS...

Perhaps a veteran Olb/De trade is uneccesary, but it is early and we will see how the front 7 looks in Philly!

Lets Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[/quote]

It was cause all we had to do at that point is pin our ears back. We weren't able to shutdown the run and force them to be one-dimensional, until the lead the offense generated forced that. Kruger got dominated and ran at time after time. Loads of room to improve.

[Tank 92]

I think we saw that the pass rush "by committee" can be effective as the game progresses. Keeping fresh legs on the field will wear down the best O lines.

[Blex64]

[quote name='tonyg6996' timestamp='1347403552' post='1148440']
I'm still a bit worried about the pass rush. We really weren't getting much pressure on Dalton until the game was getting out of hand, forcing the Bengals to throw more. And this was against a VERY weak O-line, it was the first game as a Bengal for the center and the 2 guards.

Ngata did get going by the end of the game though and ended up with 2 sacks, which is promising. He's going to have to carry a lot of the load if we want a chance.
[/quote]

I am as well. Until they were forced to throw a lot, the only way we were getting pressure was by blitzing DBs.

That being said, Upshaw looked a lot better then McLellan once he came in. I'm hoping that as Kruger adjusts to being a 3rd down player this improves. Hopefully Ngata/McPhee/Upshaw/Kruger can start to generate solid pressure. No, there's no replacing Suggs, but we'll have to do what we can.

I really think we'd have kept Redding and/or JJ if Suggs had gone down earlier. Oh well. Play should start to improve as some of these guys get a bit more playtime.