Rumor: Cary Williams to be traded to the Colts?

[indianstick]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1345829386' post='1128627']
Torry and Rice are the exceptions. Ravens dont have a good history with 2nd rounders for some reason.

I never said he WAS the reason why. [b]With Reeds declined skills and spotty coverage[/b], I would say Cary was a good part of the pass defense along with webb obviously. He was a LARGE factor in our pass defense last year, and that cannot be disputed. Even if JSmith comes on and plays at a pro bowl level, you need atleast 3 starting calibur corners to be able to defend against teams that run 3-4-5 WR/TE sets every play. Who is going to cover those huge pass catching TE and the slot? The days of nickel and dime corners who play a few snaps a game are long gone. I could almost see the game evolving to make the SS obsolete and adding 3rd corner, all things being equal.
[/quote]

wait what? the only real decline in reed's skill has been his tackling, other than that his coverage has been great. There were a lot of times last season where i saw him bail out cary and our other corners on deep routes. Qbs went out of their way to avoid him last season. I am not taking anything away from cary, i thought he did a good job last year, especially for the first quarter of the season when jimmy was out but ed reed was a HUGE part of the success of our secondary last year.

Theres no doubt our secondary is better with him than without, and trading him right now would be a huge risk due to the fact that the cornerback position is arguably the most fragile positions in the league (at least for us). But if we know that we won't be able to pay him what he's demanding in a year, why not consider trading him for a second round pick

[Corvus]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1345829172' post='1128625']


2nd/3rd AND a player (Freeney no less)? Wow...
[/quote]

I worded that awkwardly in my haste to post that while at work, heh. What I meant was a 2nd or 3rd rd, possibly + Hughes (though doubtful since he was a 1st rd pick 2 years ago, just threw him in there because I saw others mention him in the thread) OR just Freeney, period. I think I've been here long enough that my fellow posters know I don't objectively think a pick plus a still elite player like Freeney for Cary is feasible.

[The Raven]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1345832194' post='1128701']
wait what? the only real decline in reed's skill has been his tackling, other than that his coverage has been great. There were a lot of times last season where i saw him bail out cary and our other corners on deep routes. Qbs went out of their way to avoid him last season. I am not taking anything away from cary, i thought he did a good job last year, especially for the first quarter of the season when jimmy was out but ed reed was a HUGE part of the success of our secondary last year.

Theres no doubt our secondary is better with him than without, and trading him right now would be a huge risk due to the fact that the cornerback position is arguably the most fragile positions in the league (at least for us). But if we know that we won't be able to pay him what he's demanding in a year, why not consider trading him for a second round pick
[/quote]

Reed is very spotty when in man coverage.

[Suggs Package]

I actually don't think its Cary Williams because, it it were, I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have played last night. I think its a CB, just not Cary. Maybe Vontae Davis?

[ravensdfan]

[quote name='Corvus' timestamp='1345832887' post='1128718']
I worded that awkwardly in my haste to post that while at work, heh. What I meant was a 2nd or 3rd rd, possibly + Hughes (though doubtful since he was a 1st rd pick 2 years ago, just threw him in there because I saw others mention him in the thread) OR just Freeney, period. I think I've been here long enough that my fellow posters know I don't objectively think a pick plus a still elite player like Freeney for Cary is feasible.
[/quote]

I knew what you meant. No way I thought we were getting a pick and a player for Williams. Just meant that next year he is likely gone so might as well get something for him now if possible.

[nk02442]

[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1345832194' post='1128701']
wait what? the only real decline in reed's skill has been his tackling, other than that his coverage has been great. There were a lot of times last season where i saw him bail out cary and our other corners on deep routes. Qbs went out of their way to avoid him last season. I am not taking anything away from cary, i thought he did a good job last year, especially for the first quarter of the season when jimmy was out but ed reed was a HUGE part of the success of our secondary last year.

Theres no doubt our secondary is better with him than without, and trading him right now would be a huge risk due to the fact that the cornerback position is arguably the most fragile positions in the league (at least for us). But if we know that we won't be able to pay him what he's demanding in a year, why not consider trading him for a second round pick
[/quote]

No it has not. Eds given up alot of TDS the last two years and his coverage has gone to crap. You must not watch the games.

[Corvus]

[quote name='ravensdfan' timestamp='1345835324' post='1128750']


I knew what you meant. No way I thought we were getting a pick and a player for Williams. Just meant that next year he is likely gone so might as well get something for him now if possible.
[/quote]

Absolutely man, best to get something now if the team can because Bisciotti, Ozzie, and company aren't going to extend a better offer than the one he just turned down. If not, that's fine, hopefully Cary helps us win a championship and he can get that big payday he wants elsewhere. But as you said, this is last year we will have him, so a pass rusher for now or a draft pick for later for him is great.

[indianstick]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1345837096' post='1128783']
No it has not. Eds given up alot of TDS the last two years and his coverage has gone to crap. You must not watch the games.
[/quote]

lol hes given up a lot of tds in the last two years and his coverage has gone to crap? so ur basically saying hes a liability in coverage, yeah and im the one that doesn't watch the games. come on guy

[H8R]

I know this might be crazy talk.... but Ed Reed comes to mind : P

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='H8R' timestamp='1345838746' post='1128814']
I know this might be crazy talk.... but Ed Reed comes to mind : P
[/quote]

Yeah like looney ward crazy talk brother!

I say give us Freeney with a restructure and its game over in the AFC N. He would own Mike Adams and Andrew Whitworth....not sure about Joe Thomas though

[D-Rey]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1345837096' post='1128783']
No it has not. Eds given up alot of TDS the last two years and his coverage has gone to crap. You must not watch the games.
[/quote]Lol this was a good joke.....it was a joke right?

[indianstick]

[quote name='D-Rey' timestamp='1345839125' post='1128826']
Lol this was a good joke.....it was a joke right?
[/quote]

haha i got a good laugh at it too

[The Raven]

[quote name='D-Rey' timestamp='1345839125' post='1128826']
Lol this was a good joke.....it was a joke right?
[/quote]
[quote name='indianstick' timestamp='1345839379' post='1128832']
haha i got a good laugh at it too
[/quote]

It's not a joke. Reed is not very reliable in one on one man coverage.

[Bltravens]

It won't be Cary. Not a real stud veteran, has 1 year of experience under his belt, has looked spotty at best in the preseason and theres no value trade off for a "high round pick" and big contract for Cary Williams.

Irsay would be a fool.

[display name]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1345839482' post='1128833']
It's not a joke. Reed is not very reliable in one on one man coverage.
[/quote]
Agreed. I can't remember how many times I saw Reed reach out his arm to try in vain to deflect a long touchdown, only to land on his back.
Also, Cary Williams was usually with Ed when that happened. Both of those points have played parts in things I have said in the past. hint hint

[indianstick]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1345839482' post='1128833']
It's not a joke. Reed is not very reliable in one on one man coverage.
[/quote]

we are talking about zone where reed generally plays 90% of the type. I'm not gonna argue that he's gotten beat at times when he's manned up to a receiver but he does that a couple times during a game. The majority of the time he is playing the deep zone, which he is still the best at doing

[D-Rey]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1345839482' post='1128833']
It's not a joke. Reed is not very reliable in one on one man coverage.
[/quote]He didn't say man, he said just said coverage. So that means coveage in general.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Bltravens' timestamp='1345839588' post='1128837']
It won't be Cary. Not a real stud veteran, has 1 year of experience under his belt, has looked spotty at best in the preseason and theres no value trade off for a "high round pick" and big contract for Cary Williams.

Irsay would be a fool.
[/quote]
Well he did hire Pagano who had one year of defensive coordinator under his belt..

[codizzle]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1345835147' post='1128742']


Reed is very spotty when in man coverage.
[/quote]
He got burnt pretty bad for a big gain early in the game last night

[bubrub]

If we traded Oher would we have enough salary cap space for Freeney? something to look into, with Osemele and Reid we have a lot of good tackles, and Oher's value might be higher than it should be (lots of false starts)... we are definitly worried about pass rush i could see Williams AND Oher traded for Freeney and a first or second rounder.... or maybe Pagano was a driving force behind drafting Jimmy Smith and wants him... a colts first round pick would be hard to turn down since its probably gonna be top ten...

[codizzle]

[quote name='bubrub' timestamp='1345842436' post='1128879']
If we traded Oher would we have enough salary cap space for Freeney? something to look into, with Osemele and Reid we have a lot of good tackles, and Oher's value might be higher than it should be (lots of false starts)... we are definitly worried about pass rush i could see Williams AND Oher traded for Freeney and a first or second rounder.... or maybe Pagano was a driving force behind drafting Jimmy Smith and wants him... a colts first round pick would be hard to turn down since its probably gonna be top ten...
[/quote]
Man.. I wish u were in our dynasty league this offseason. The falcons woulda loved to trade with u

[bubrub]

How is that not a feasible trade? Osemelle is looking awesome and we desperately need someone like freeney to fill in for Suggs (we are always willing to give up alot for premium pass rushers even last year with a healthy suggs we went after Osi)... If we get Freeney and the colts first rounder for Oher/Williams (colts need CB and OL help) we get the better bargain, colts first round pick next year is going to get one hell of a good player

[codizzle]

[quote name='bubrub' timestamp='1345843036' post='1128888']
How is that not a feasible trade? Osemelle is looking awesome and we desperately need someone like freeney to fill in for Suggs (we are always willing to give up alot for premium pass rushers even last year with a healthy suggs we went after Osi)... If we get Freeney and the colts first rounder for Oher/Williams (colts need CB and OL help) we get the better bargain, colts first round pick next year is going to get one hell of a good player
[/quote]
Say we did the oher n cary for freeney and a first..

Let's say oher and the first would wash out since oher was a 1st round pick..

They would be trading Cary straight up for Dwight freeney
Dwight freeney only has over a 100 sacks for his career

[bubrub]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1345843457' post='1128894']
Say we did the oher n cary for freeney and a first..

Let's say oher and the first would wash out since oher was a 1st round pick..

They would be trading Cary straight up for Dwight freeney
Dwight freeney only has over a 100 sacks for his career
[/quote]

oh ok your saying that trade would never happen / too good of a deal for the ravens?

thought you were saying that would be a great trade for the colts when you said the falcons would love to trade with me

[gabefergy]

Hey we arent trading for Dwight Freeney ok? He's making 14 million dollars this year...doesnt quite work.I would trade Cary for a 2nd round pick and be thrilled about it. If we can get a pass-rusher like Jerry Hughes even better.

[JO_75]

Why is everyone talking about getting a pass rusher out of the deal? Is everyone counting out Kruger and Upshaw already? Sorry but I have confidence that Kruger and Upshaw will do fine for us until Suggs is healthy to come back. I say if they want to give us a 2nd for Cary Williams, fine, I'll take the high second round pick from the Colts.

[redlobster]

wait, does Freeney even fit in the ravens defensive scheme? has he shown anything since moving into a 3-4 defense? I was under the impression he was purely a 4-3 end.

[Ravenseconbeast]

What can Colts possibly offer?

We dont have salary cap on the few established talent they got


All i can see is for them to give us a high draft pick (1st round or 2nd+4th? pick)

[redlobster]

I'd love to see them give up a pick and one of their TE prospects

[gabefergy]

[quote name='JO_75' timestamp='1345844839' post='1128910']
Why is everyone talking about getting a pass rusher out of the deal? Is everyone counting out Kruger and Upshaw already? Sorry but I have confidence that Kruger and Upshaw will do fine for us until Suggs is healthy to come back. I say if they want to give us a 2nd for Cary Williams, fine, I'll take the high second round pick from the Colts.
[/quote]
I've certainly not been impressed by the pass-rush so far this pre-season. Our OLBs are just not getting it done so far. Upshaw has not looked good. He is overweight and sluggish. He doesnt look explosive. Kruger has looked better, but if he is our best pass-rusher that is not a good thing. I'd be looking for anyone that can add a spark at this point.