Anyone think our secondary is overrated?

[display name]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1345167300' post='1120839']
Cary was one of the most targeted cornerbacks in the league last year and gave up the fewest % of the top thrown-at corners ([url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/cornerbacks-a-glance-at-the-2011-numbers/"]http://www.profootba...e-2011-numbers/[/url])

The same site ranks him 17th in the league in terms of tackling efficiency (not missing tackles) ([url="http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/02/12/2011-tackling-the-cornerbacks/"]http://www.profootba...he-cornerbacks/[/url]).

This argument is ridiculous.
[/quote]
Thanks for posting. Now I know that Cary Williams was 8th in yards given up.
Edit: his bad deep ball skills were supposed to be the focus of my point all along! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[hawkprey]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1345168108' post='1120851']
Thanks for posting. Now I know that Cary Williams was 8th in yards given up.
Edit: his bad deep ball skills were supposed to be the focus of my point all along! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
[/quote]
Yeah, because he was the 6th most targeted corner. You see how that works?

Also on that most yards list - Brandon Browner (pro bowler), Charles Tillman (pro bowler), Deangelo Hall (3x pro bowler). Why is that? Because the best corners are 16 game starters and see more plays than other ones. Almost everyone but Cary on that list was a 1st round selection. Of the 10, Cary gave up the 3rd fewest yards/attempt.
Hohoho!

[The Raven]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1345169082' post='1120859']
Yeah, because he was the 6th most targeted corner. You see how that works?

Also on that most yards list - Brandon Browner (pro bowler), Charles Tillman (pro bowler), Deangelo Hall (3x pro bowler). Why is that? Because the best corners are 16 game starters and see more plays than other ones. Almost everyone but Cary on that list was a 1st round selection. Of the 10, Cary gave up the 3rd fewest yards/attempt.
Hohoho!
[/quote]

Get ready for him to refute your solid argument with more nonsensical arguments.

[display name]

Do not put Cary on deep routes and he will be fine.

[The Raven]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1345169322' post='1120861']
Do not put Cary on deep routes and he will be fine.
[/quote]

I wish the offense would tell us when they were going to run said deep routes... That way we'd know not to put Cary on that receiver

[flynismo]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1345169082' post='1120859']
Yeah, because he was the 6th most targeted corner.
[/quote]

Not a surprise, considering the level Webb was playing on.

I wasn't a Cary fan before, but I must say that despite some rocky moments, all in all he played much better than I thought he would. If we didn't have The Jimmy, I would have been perfectly fine with Cary as our #2 again.

[display name]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1345169464' post='1120863']
I wish the offense would tell us when they were going to run said deep routes... That way we'd know not to put Cary on that receiver
[/quote]
It's called making a prediction. Have him cover guys who normaly don't go deep.

[display name]

Basically, I'm fine with Cary not getting interceptions and covering guys on slants. However, if we put him on guys who's specialty is the deep bomb, brace yourself.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1345169522' post='1120866']
Not a surprise, considering the level Webb was playing on.

I wasn't a Cary fan before, but I must say that despite some rocky moments, all in all he played much better than I thought he would. If we didn't have The Jimmy, I would have been perfectly fine with Cary as our #2 again.
[/quote]
Right, I was trying to show that we remember seeing Cary burned multiple times because he was targeted so much. That's bound to happen when you're playing your first year in the league. Cary will get more first looks that Webb. Therefore when Cary is beat he will be targeted more often than when Webb will when he's beat. There are always plays in a season when a corner is beat but he won't be thrown to. Webb should have been a bigger beneficiary of that.

For being someone who was targeted as the "weak point", Cary held his own better than almost any highly targeted corner. Jimmy Smith didn't hold up when it was his turn to be targeted just like Washington and Webb didn't when it was their turns last year. For a first year starter (and he never really played backup either), Cary showed up big. He does need to improve, but I don't see why he won't. He was always considered a project corner with good measurables.

[baltravens]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1345165618' post='1120816']
[img]http://pictures.replayphotos.com/images/NFL/md/national-football-league-2011-season-week-9-mike-wallace-cary-williams-nfl-1112-wk9-00485md.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-photos/johnnie-lee-higgins-15-and-cary-williams-29-z3jLFV.jpg[/img]
[img]http://lub-cdn.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/10690685.jpg[/img]
[img]http://media.centredaily.com/smedia/2012/08/09/23/09/846-hOgXe.AuSt.55.jpeg[/img]
[img]http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/03sU6kDcff3DP/439x.jpg[/img]
[/quote]
For some reason I don't think you are going to downgrade Williams here. He is a favorite of the Flock just like Enron Riley was two years ago. IMO, if Williams can improve upon his game and progress, I think what negativity there is surrounding him will cease.

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1345156153' post='1120697']
So I'm just too entertaining for you to ignore after all?
Well, it seems everybody here is pretty set in their opinions. Let's just stop.
[/quote]

idk its to late for Kass and that colt fan their on my ignore list,im beyond dum founded thats all i can say about this thread and the few people that agree with Kass.

[funky141]

[quote name='ThePurpleWall' timestamp='1345205578' post='1120963']
idk its to late for Kass and that colt fan their on my ignore list,im beyond dum founded thats all i can say about this thread and the few people that agree with Kass.
[/quote]

Will see tonight if there is any improvement from last Thursday Wall.

[kassaiscool]

Some ppl in our secondary getting burned again... It makes me mad we can't defend the deep ball.

[Cville-Raven]

I think our defense struggles with the Big tall and fast receivers. Luckily I don't think we have a whole lot of them on our schedule.

[kassaiscool]

[quote name='Cville-Raven' timestamp='1345256183' post='1122383']
I think our defense struggles with the Big tall and fast receivers. Luckily I don't think we have a whole lot of them on our schedule.
[/quote]

I am so scared for our defense this year, they have been good for so long it sucks when they finally slip up. Then of course our offense steps up this year.. No pass rush + suspect players in the secondary + offensive schedule this year = NO goooOD.

[Cville-Raven]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1345257298' post='1122413']
I am so scared for our defense this year, they have been good for so long it sucks when they finally slip up. Then of course our offense steps up this year.. No pass rush + suspect players in the secondary + offensive schedule this year = NO goooOD.
[/quote]
your kidding right?

[kassaiscool]

[quote name='Cville-Raven' timestamp='1345257378' post='1122416']
your kidding right?
[/quote]

The defense is not going to be terrible, but they are gonna cost us some gamesthis year.

[scrock]

i think Cary Williams and Jimmy Smith both need to work on playing the ball, they both seem to have tight coverage on a WR but they dont put a hand up and both look back for the ball and the WR pulls away from them

still its preseason so im not worried, maybe they just dont play as hard in preseason...remember this happened last year too and what happened..the ravens secondary was top 4? something like that

[RavenManiac#7]

I do believe our secondary is overrated. But it is So dependent on what kind of pressure we can put on the QB, and lately, that hasn't been very much. I know, I know, it's only two preseason games into the season, but that doesn't mean we can ignore what we're seeing. If we really expect to make a run at the SB, we're going to have to improve in quite a few areas. Pass rush, offensive line, special teams; these are all areas that we simply have to improve on or it's going to be a shorter season than any of us want. Just tellin' it like it is.

[Yatagarasu]

Yeah, it seems Chuck Pagano made our secondary look great with all his crazy pressure and blitz packages along with Terrell Suggs. We all know what happened when DC Mattison was around with his vanilla defensive pressure. Our secondary was considered the weak spot back then due to the injuries and lack of pressure. Now that our pass rush is lacking, our secondary seems to suffer for it.

[funky141]

[quote name='Corvus Amplus' timestamp='1345274121' post='1122941']
Yeah, it seems Chuck Pagano made our secondary look great with all his crazy pressure and blitz packages along with Terrell Suggs. We all know what happened when DC Mattison was around with his vanilla defensive pressure. Our secondary was considered the weak spot back then due to the injuries and lack of pressure. Now that our pass rush is lacking, our secondary seems to suffer for it.
[/quote]

Perfect, this is my thoughts to a "T".
The Ravens defense is not looking up to par so far in 2 pre-season games.

[1/28/01]

[quote name='funky141' timestamp='1345291729' post='1123007']


Perfect, this is my thoughts to a "T".
The Ravens defense is not looking up to par so far in 2 pre-season games.
[/quote]
Go Colts! Or Manning? Wait, go!

[BigDawg]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344955624' post='1118793']
I think our db's are a overrated by the media, fans, and players this year. I still think they will be very good, but I do not trust Cary Williams to stop getting beat deep.If hes not getting beat deep he gives Wr's like 8 yards of cushion on the line of scrimmage so he can get beat underneath. Webb will be solid as usual, Ed is getting older, Pollard is known for hitting not coverage, and Jimmy smith isn't proven. I like Danny Gorrer in the slot but I don't think our pass rush will be nearly as good as last year, which will cost our cb's even moRe.

Thoughts?
[/quote]
Woodson got beat it seems like once every game here, with the steelers and with the 49'ers. You can't intercept or break up every pass that comes your way

[BloodRaven]

[quote name='BigDawg' timestamp='1345294858' post='1123026']
Woodson got beat it seems like once every game here, with the steelers and with the 49'ers. You can't intercept or break up every pass that comes your way
[/quote]

"You can't win them all" isn't an excuse for getting beat, it's an excuse for complacency.

[kassaiscool]

People didn't want to believe me when I said this. I know its just two preseason games, but just because the other team has a #1 WR does not mean we should give up a hundred yards in a quarter or a quarter and a half. Last time I checked Julio Jones didn't have a 100 yards against the bengals in two quarters. I am not trying to say I told you so, but I wonder how some people didn't see this coming.

[jdynamite]

I'm not sure if the Secondary can be overrated by the Media because in reality the mainstream media NFLN, ESPN, SI barely ever mention our secondary unless they are talking about Ed Reed or Pollard injuring Patriot players... Other than that you have to be a Raven fan reading various Raven articles like I do just to catch a snippet about the secondary and their potential to be even better than last year....

Now as a fan I have high expectations, I was very pleased with Webb's outstanding play last year, he needs to maintain that consistency and perhaps play at an even higher level, I like Cary but he can't jam receivers well, so he rarely plays tight coverage sometimes he gives 5-8 yards of space on the line scrimmage giving up quick screens or slants, Last year he played well for his first extended action, but he never made plays when they were available to him... J.Smith seemed to cocky at times he believes in his own ability which is great but that Charger game was perfect example of how he needed to be humbled and work to improve because double moves and tall receivers can get you...............

These are preseason games they don't tell the whole story, last season our passing defense was top notch it will rank highly this season... Within these 2 games I haven't be able to see the style of defense ( aggressive attacking, passive aggressive ( Maddison ) )

[D-Rey]

[quote name='jdynamite' timestamp='1345305227' post='1123131']
I'm not sure if the Secondary can be overrated by the Media because in reality the mainstream media NFLN, ESPN, SI barely ever mention our secondary unless they are talking about Ed Reed or Pollard injuring Patriot players... Other than that you have to be a Raven fan reading various Raven articles like I do just to catch a snippet about the secondary and their potential to be even better than last year....

Now as a fan I have high expectations, I was very pleased with Webb's outstanding play last year, he needs to maintain that consistency and perhaps play at an even higher level, I like Cary but he can't jam receivers well, so he rarely plays tight coverage sometimes he gives 5-8 yards of space on they're line scrimmage giving up quick screens or slants, Last year he played well for his first extended action, but he never made plays when they were available to him... J.Smith seemed to cocky at times he believes in his own ability which is great but that Charger game was perfect example of how he needed to be humbled and work to improve because double moves and tall receivers can get you...............

These are preseason games they don't tell the whole story, last season our passing defense was top notch it will rank highly this season... Within these 2 games I haven't be able to see the style of defense ( aggressive attacking, passive aggressive ( Maddison ) )
[/quote] What has made Jimmy Smith seem cocky. Nothing I've seen at all. Cary Williams had tight coverage most of the night, just needs to get his head around. All of our CBs are physical.

[dhstandard]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1345303726' post='1123111']
People didn't want to believe me when I said this. I know its just two preseason games, but just because the other team has a #1 WR does not mean we should give up a hundred yards in a quarter or a quarter and a half. Last time I checked Julio Jones didn't have a 100 yards against the bengals in two quarters. I am not trying to say I told you so, but I wonder how some people didn't see this coming.
[/quote]

I didn't see anything alarming at all. Most of those yards given up were because Cary thought he had help and it was Sean Considine, not Ed Reed on the coverage. Before that it was great. All the yards after that drive the starters weren't even in.

Wait till the season opener when the starters play 4 quarters and tell me how our secondary is.

Would you say our secondary is bad when the Colts blew us up on their final drive after not breaking 100 yards because the starters were benched? I didn't think so.

[PolishRifle]

I don't think so, or to be more honest, I hope it isn't true, but this post gained alot more credibility after the last two pre-season games. I hope they get back on track, I still trust Webby and I still believe in Jimmy Smiths upside.

[Mahatma_Sloth]

a lil early for this thread specially since they apparently plugging in depth with the #1s to test lets see a full game with webb reed Nagta and ray before we jump to conclusions eh?