Anyone think our secondary is overrated?

[D-Rey]

Ya, but all your doing is going off of one preseason game. Cary is coming off a surgery to an area that's important for a corner. Smith is in his second year and should hopefully break out. And Webb is one of the best corners in the league, which I am eating my words from a year ago. We didn't game plan, which it looked like Atlanta did. And we were ver vanilla for a reason, which Atlanta wasn't lol

[Ravenseconbeast]

Maybe its not the talent. Our overall defense just look like it lost a step soon as Dean Pees stepped on as defensive coordinator.

[redrum52]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344955624' post='1118793']
I think our db's are a overrated by the media, fans, and players this year. I still think they will be very good, but I do not trust Cary Williams to stop getting beat deep.If hes not getting beat deep he gives Wr's like 8 yards of cushion on the line of scrimmage so he can get beat underneath. Webb will be solid as usual, Ed is getting older, Pollard is known for hitting not coverage, and Jimmy smith isn't proven. I like Danny Gorrer in the slot but I don't think our pass rush will be nearly as good as last year, which will cost our cb's even moRe.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

I'm with you on Cary cause I've never really trusted him, though for the most part he has held up well. I think Jimmy will shine and though it definitely won't happen now I hope we trade Cary and put Graham at nickel. That would still leave us with Gorrer, Asa and Brown. I know depth is good but if Graham is playing like they say he is if Jimmy was to go down he around be able to fill in. I think the secondary will be fine as will the pass rush. I also think after the first few games it will be a steady rush instead big games here and there.

[Radinho84]

i don´t think that they are overrated.

reed= best at his position
webb= top five or top seven at his position
pollard= one of the hardest hitters on the team and also top 10 at his position
smith= on his way to become a very good player
Wiliams= good corner. top 20 at his position (second cornerback)

we have a lot of playmakers on our secondary. right now i cannot imagine any group in the nfl with more talent.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344958167' post='1118817']
With Ed's injuries every year and his age being 34 when the season starts, It would be hopeful wishing to think your gonna get a vintage Ed Reed. Yes, I know Pollard is SS, but that's my point he won't be good in coverage. Jimmy smith have a "great rookie year" are you sure about that? He made some nice plays, but got beat deep on plenty of enough plays. Now I'm confused, so our pass rush has no correlation to our secondary? They actually go hand in hand. A good pass rush covers deficiency on the back end. Just watch the Giants win super bowls with an ok secondary.
[/quote]
The guys who are up front don't determine how skilled our corners and safeties are. So the pass rush changing doesn't make our players in the secondary any worse.

Our secondary gave up 11 TDs all year, so even if Jimmy got beat a few times, our secondary is great incorporating that fact. However you want to slice it we have:

The best FS in the game
One of the best corners in the game
The best corner depth in the game

Strong safeties don't play the pass that much, so when you talk about secondary and think "pass", you're not completely correct. Our secondary influences the run game as well. And as it happens, our top 3 corners are all very good tacklers in the run game.

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344961772' post='1118870']
If you guys want stats, look at the majority of the teams we played last year. Most of them were bottom half of offensive stats last year. Besides the steelers being 12th and the texans being 13th look at the rest of them. I didn't say we have a bad secondary just a little hyped by everyone. Look at the bottom of the rankings and look how many teams the ravens played last year, and look at the top 10 and see if the ravens played any team from there.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1"]http://www.nfl.com/s...=2&d-447263-n=1[/url]
[/quote]
Look at who the other top defenses played. They didn't exactly face a guantlet of explosive offenses either.

Football outsiders, whose metric weighs strength of schedule, gave us the top ranked pass defense in the league. So what's your point?

[PeRK82]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344955624' post='1118793']
I think our db's are a overrated by the media, fans, and players this year. I still think they will be very good, but I do not trust Cary Williams to stop getting beat deep.If hes not getting beat deep he gives Wr's like 8 yards of cushion on the line of scrimmage so he can get beat underneath. Webb will be solid as usual, Ed is getting older, Pollard is known for hitting not coverage, and Jimmy smith isn't proven. I like Danny Gorrer in the slot but I don't think our pass rush will be nearly as good as last year, which will cost our cb's even moRe.

Thoughts?
[/quote]

What are you talking about, Cary got burned, he got burned a few times last yr. He is still a great CB, the problem i have with our secondary is playing 10 yds off the L.O.S, the offense will get a completed slant pass everytime.
If anything, we have to worry about our LB corps but they actually look good, we just don't know who they exactly are yet.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Radinho84' timestamp='1344965913' post='1118922']
i don´t think that they are overrated.

reed= best at his position
[b]webb= top five or top seven at his position[/b]
pollard= one of the hardest hitters on the team and also top 10 at his position
smith= on his way to become a very good player
Wiliams= good corner. top 20 at his position (second cornerback)

we have a lot of playmakers on our secondary. right now i cannot imagine any group in the nfl with more talent.
[/quote]

Gotta disagree with you on Webb, he is clearly top 3. Wasn't scored on once last yr.
The only difference between Webb and Revis , is Revis gets away with P.I. All The Time.

Being Humble doesn't mean you have to cut him short : )

[truthistold2u]

It's a pre-season game with a lot of starters out. Wait for a regular season game when people are playing for real

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ravenseconbeast' timestamp='1344964341' post='1118907']
Maybe its not the talent. Our overall defense just look like it lost a step soon as Dean Pees stepped on as defensive coordinator.
[/quote]


I'd hold that opinion til maybe the 3rd or 4th preseason. No team in the N.F.L looked good in the first preseason game.

[baltravens]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344966452' post='1118929']
Gotta disagree with you on Webb,[b] he is clearly top 3.[/b] Wasn't scored on once last yr.
The only difference between Webb and Revis , is Revis gets away with P.I. All The Time.

Being Humble doesn't mean you have to cut him short : )
[/quote]
No hating on Webb, but I can see clearly three that are better than he is: Revis, Asomugha, and Bailey. (Some may even put Woodsen ahead of him, too.)

[display name]

Here are our defensive backs:
FS Ed Reed- starter, 1 of the best safeties in NFL history. He's lost a step, but still a legitimant threat.
SS Bernard Pollard- starter, blitzes occasionally, and delivers some monster hits. Coverage skills are average.
FS Omar Brown- played very well against the Atlanta Falcons, provides great depth.
SS Christian Thompson-hard hitter, has a nose for the ball.
FS Emmanuel Cook-average backup.
SS Sean Considine- hasn't done much, more of a special teams contributor.
CB Chykie Brown-fighting for roster spot, recorded 4 tackles last year.
CB Asa Jackson-has been all over the field. Jackson deflected a few passes against Atlanta.
CB Danny Gorrer-has good coverage skills and deflects a ton of passes, but don't count on an interception. He has brick hands.
CB Corey Graham-veteran, has looked good. Graham has gotten a few interceptions over the course of TC.
CB Cary Williams-likely the #3 corner. Deflects a lot of passes, but always drops them. Also, his deep coverage skills [b]suck![/b] He also does not realize that when a receiver is catching a ball, you actually have to turn around to have a shot at breaking the play. Honestly, with all that depth, I wouldn't mind if we traded him.
CB Jimmy Smith-projected starter, 2nd year. Jimmy Smith had 3 picks on the year last year. He had one terrible game against the San Diego Chargers, but other than that, Smith has shown why the Baltimore Ravens drafted him in the 1st round last year.
CB Lardarius Webb-best CB in the NFL.
Except for Cary, that looks pretty solid to me.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1344961172' post='1118859']
wow....now, that is a silly thing to say.

[url="http://www.nfl.com/stats/team?seasonId=2011&seasonType=REG&Submit=Go"]http://www.nfl.com/s...e=REG&Submit=Go[/url]


As far as "good teams" go, we stuffed PIT twice, shut HOU down twice, made Brady our **** in the playoffs.
[b]The ONLY good offense that torched us was SD.[/b]
[/quote]

Agree you on everything ,except for SD being a good Offense, i don't know i just don't think they are that good. I think we just didn't play well honestly, Tebow beat them and Rivers threw i think 2 ints in that game (i remember watching the game and was not impressed). Rivers didn't really make mistakes against us , that and our front 7 wasn't getting any pressure on them.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1344966751' post='1118935']
No hating on Webb, but I can see clearly three that are better than he is: Revis, Asomugha, and[b] Bailey[/b]. (Some may even put Woodsen ahead of him, too.)
[/quote]

Maybe Bailey in his prime, but like i said Revis gets away with Everything. I hate it. Asomugha got burned multiple times, i'd say he is a notch or two above Williams.

Before last season, i might have agreed with you but this Yr Webb took it to another Level. He got alot more physical, he's not afraid to hit.
I would love to see Revis get called on plays that are clearly P.I and then lets see how he is rated. QB's would be throwing it his way alot more. Not saying he wouldn't get any INTs but he would get alot of flags and negated INTs because of it.

[kassaiscool]

Perk82 we all love Webbie, but to put him in the same class as Revis is wrong. Revis has locked down every and any elite WR, if he continues what he is doing he is a lock HOF. Oh btw Cary Williams is not "great" he is solid and he is susceptible to deep balls no matter who he is covering.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='display name' timestamp='1344966783' post='1118936']
Here are our defensive backs:
FS Ed Reed- starter, 1 of the best safeties in NFL history. He's lost a step, but still a legitimant threat.
SS Bernard Pollard- starter, blitzes occasionally, and delivers some monster hits. Coverage skills are average.
FS Omar Brown- played very well against the Atlanta Falcons, provides great depth.
SS Christian Thompson-hard hitter, has a nose for the ball.
FS Emmanuel Cook-average backup.
SS Sean Considine- hasn't done much, more of a special teams contributor.
CB Chykie Brown-fighting for roster spot, recorded 4 tackles last year.
CB Asa Jackson-has been all over the field. Jackson deflected a few passes against Atlanta.
CB Danny Gorrer-has good coverage skills and deflects a ton of passes, but don't count on an interception. He has brick hands.
CB Corey Graham-veteran, has looked good. Graham has gotten a few interceptions over the course of TC.
CB Cary Williams-likely the #3 corner. Deflects a lot of passes, but always drops them. Also, his deep coverage skills [b]suck![/b] He also does not realize that when a receiver is catching a ball, you actually have to turn around to have a shot at breaking the play. Honestly, with all that depth, I wouldn't mind if we traded him.
CB Jimmy Smith-projected starter, 2nd year. Jimmy Smith had 3 picks on the year last year. He had one terrible game against the San Diego Chargers, but other than that, Smith has shown why the Baltimore Ravens drafted him in the 1st round last year.
CB Lardarius Webb-best CB in the NFL.
[b]Except for Cary, that looks pretty solid to me.[/b]
[/quote]

Why the hate on Cary, he is playing no different than last yr. Did he get burned a few times last season, Yes. but he also made more plays then F ups and also when he did get burned. He would usually play solid the rest of the game.

I remember Cary getting scored on in the Titans game, Pitts game and a couple of others but he was also targeted alot. Look who was playing opposite of him (Webb).
If you were a QB, who would you rather throw it against ??? Nuff said.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='kassaiscool' timestamp='1344967301' post='1118944']
Perk82 we all love Webbie, but to put him in the same class as Revis is wrong. [b]Revis has locked down every and any elite WR[/b], if he continues what he is doing he is a lock HOF. Oh btw Cary Williams is not "great" he is solid and he is susceptible to deep balls no matter who he is covering.
[/quote]


OK, and your saying Webb hasn't either??? Revis was scored on, Webb wasn't. Webb plays the same WRers Revis does.

No one will change my mind about how i feel about Revis and i feel that even Ravens fans are holding him short. He clearly got robbed for the pro bowl and it was unreal that he wasn't even in the top 100, its dumbfounding.

Just watch Revis this yr, your going to think Revis is dating his WR because he will be holding his hand the hold time. Webb doesn't and if he does, it will be called on. The play against the Falcons, Webb got called. Which was a good call but i highly doubt Revis would have been called on.

Maybe with these new Refs, it will be fair game. I think these new Refs won't play favortism toward players because they will be too worried about focusing on their job at hand. Thats just my opinion.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='edreedfromtheu' timestamp='1344956180' post='1118798']
I think the lack of pass rush the past few years(even when Suggs was out there) has been vastly underrated. And so far this season, it seems to have put more attention on the secondary. Of course, once teams/defenses are finally allowed to start really sending pressure, hopefully that changes.

But I think the QB is much more overrated at this point, than the secondary. If the defense is still getting torched in the 3rd preseason game like they did in the first drive of this last game... then I'll worry. Why? Because they've actually proven to me they can play. The offense... not so much, which is why they should be taking every opportunity they have to prove themselves.
[/quote]any chance you get to dig Joe...

[1/28/01]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344967494' post='1118946']


Why the hate on Cary, [b]he is playing no different than last yr.[/b] Did he get burned a few times last season, Yes. but he also made more plays then F ups and also when he did get burned. He would usually play solid the rest of the game.

I remember Cary getting scored on in the Titans game, Pitts game and a couple of others but he was also targeted alot. Look who was playing opposite of him (Webb).
If you were a QB, who would you rather throw it against ??? Nuff said.
[/quote]

Thats where the worry comes from...

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344966452' post='1118929']
Gotta disagree with you on Webb, he is clearly top 3. Wasn't scored on once last yr.
The only difference between Webb and Revis , is Revis gets away with P.I. All The Time.

Being Humble doesn't mean you have to cut him short : )
[/quote]Quite frankly no.

Webb can not be a top 3 player at his position in the league after one great year. Just like Cam Newton isnt, or Luck or RG3 wont be either. If Webb and Newton and all the others come back and do it two years in a row, then you have a strong case. Webb had a coupe decent years and one brilliant year. Revis has been having brilliant years his whole career, so has nmandi and the other top corners. You cant throw Webb amongst the just yet.

Best last season, you have a point, best in the league period? he has to do it again.

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344967022' post='1118938']
Agree you on everything ,except for SD being a good Offense, i don't know i just don't think they are that good. I think we just didn't play well honestly, Tebow beat them and Rivers threw i think 2 ints in that game (i remember watching the game and was not impressed). Rivers didn't really make mistakes against us , that and our front 7 wasn't getting any pressure on them.
[/quote]SD not a good offense?

Knock you down my list of people to pay attention to.

Rivers had a bad year, 1 bad year, but when he is on form thats one of thee best offenses in the league.

Now i want to see how they get on with Vjax but to say they arent good is an idiotic statement

[PeRK82]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1344968679' post='1118958']
Quite frankly no.

Webb can not be a top 3 player at his position in the league after one great year. Just like Cam Newton isnt, or Luck or RG3 wont be either. If Webb and Newton and all the others come back and do it two years in a row, then you have a strong case. Webb had a coupe decent years and one brilliant year. Revis has been having brilliant years his whole career, so has nmandi and the other top corners. You cant throw Webb amongst the just yet.

Best last season, you have a point, best in the league period? he has to do it again.
[/quote]

Webb was having a great Rookie yr but he got hurt with i think a knee injury, came back the following yr and had a pretty good yr especially after coming off injury. And has been improving ever since.

Plus Webb never played CB in college, Revis did. Also Revis had a good rookie yr but didn't make a name for him self until Rex got there. Then it became REVIS ISLAND.

All im saying is, Everyone Will know who Webb is after this season aside from injury (knock on wood, bite my tongue)

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344969015' post='1118961']
Webb was having a great Rookie yr but he got hurt with i think a knee injury, came back the following yr and had a pretty good yr especially after coming off injury. And has been improving ever since.

Plus Webb never played CB in college, Revis did. Also Revis had a good rookie yr but didn't make a name for him self until Rex got there. Then it became REVIS ISLAND.

All im saying is, Everyone Will know who Webb is after this season aside from injury (knock on wood, bite my tongue)
[/quote]Thats not waht your saying. Your saying Webb is the best corner back in the league because revis holds. No Webb is not. If he has a season like that again, ill be joining you and saying webb has a case to be no.1.

But he needs to have an elite season again, and again and again. Revis had has about 5 of them, Woodson and Bailey have had loads, although both are on the decline.

Hes top 10 atm, do it again, and i wont be arguing with you.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1344968876' post='1118959']
SD not a good offense?

Knock you down my list of people to pay attention to.

Rivers had a bad year, 1 bad year, but when he is on form thats one of thee best offenses in the league.

Now i want to see how they get on with Vjax but to say they arent good is an idiotic statement
[/quote]

I said thats just my opinion, i guess it just stems from how Rivers throws the ball. I know, i know it sounds dumb but i just can't look past it, its has got to be the ugliest throw ever.
Aside from that, i still think they are Overrated. If they have the best offense then why can't they make it to the play offs, especially in that division. If they are that good, there should be no excuses to why they havn't made the play offs by now. They had the defense a few yrs back. Even without a defense and a great offense, you should still be able to make it to the play offs, Example - Pats

[PeRK82]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1344969269' post='1118964']
Thats not waht your saying. Your saying Webb is the best corner back in the league because revis holds. No Webb is not. If he has a season like that again, ill be joining you and saying webb has a case to be no.1.

But he needs to have an elite season again, and again and again. Revis had has about 5 of them, Woodson and Bailey have had loads, although both are on the decline.

Hes top 10 atm, do it again, and i wont be arguing with you.
[/quote]

I never said Webb was the BEST CB in the league, i said he is top 3.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344969015' post='1118961']
Webb was having a great Rookie yr but he got hurt with i think a knee injury, came back the following yr and had a pretty good yr especially after coming off injury. And has been improving ever since.

Plus Webb never played CB in college, Revis did. [b]Also Revis had a good rookie yr but didn't make a name for him self until Rex got there.[/b] Then it became REVIS ISLAND.

All im saying is, Everyone Will know who Webb is after this season aside from injury (knock on wood, bite my tongue)
[/quote]

Revis was voted to the Pro Bowl the year before Rex arrived in NY.

[AsianRice]

BTW about Revis, he got burned by Wes Welker last year, and Welker got owned by Web in the NFC championship. However, Webb needs to keep what's been doing and improving on and he'll beat Revis in the milestone....

PS: Webb has a great instinct to where the ball is; he should be the best CB with his natural skill and just the fact that he's tutored by the best FS, Ed Reed in the NFL history......

When do we have Ray Lewis successor?...

[PeRK82]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1344969577' post='1118968']
Revis was voted to the Pro Bowl the year before Rex arrived in NY.
[/quote]

True, but i personally don't remember all the hype until after Rex got there, maybe because i really didn't pay attention to them because they were so bad as whole. And when Rex went there, i think all of the Ravens fans paid a little more attention to the Jets for obvious reasons, one was because Rex took alot of our good players and up and comings ones.

[Blex64]

[quote name='baltravens' timestamp='1344966751' post='1118935']
No hating on Webb, but I can see clearly three that are better than he is: Revis, [b]Asomugha[/b], and [b]Bailey[/b]. (Some may even put [b]Woodsen[/b] ahead of him, too.)
[/quote]

Lol.

2 guys on their way out (Woodson is also no longer playing corner) and someone who was awful last year.

[flynismo]

[quote name='PeRK82' timestamp='1344967867' post='1118950']
OK, and your saying Webb hasn't either??? Revis was scored on, Webb wasn't. Webb plays the same WRers Revis does.

No one will change my mind about how i feel about Revis and i feel that even Ravens fans are holding him short. He clearly got robbed for the pro bowl and it was unreal that he wasn't even in the top 100, its dumbfounding.

Just watch Revis this yr, your going to think Revis is dating his WR because he will be holding his hand the hold time. Webb doesn't and if he does, it will be called on. The play against the Falcons, Webb got called. Which was a good call but i highly doubt Revis would have been called on.

Maybe with these new Refs, it will be fair game. I think these new Refs won't play favortism toward players because they will be too worried about focusing on their job at hand. Thats just my opinion.
[/quote]

I think most people's main objection is simply time. If Webb does it again this season, proving last year was no fluke, then we can legitimately start talking about Webb being in Revis' category.

But based on just last year alone, heck yeah, Webb was a phenom

-- edit --

well, I just read arnie's post above. If I saw that earlier it woulda saved me time of posting

[arnie_uk]

"The only difference between Webb and Revis , is Revis gets away with P.I. All The Time."

I assumed that was your way of saying webb is the best