Who is the best RB in NFL? (ESPN-grantland)

[nk02442]

[quote name='Ed_Reed20' timestamp='1343101784' post='1102295']
McFadden's injury-proneness is well documented. That's why I clearly wrote one game. As for Peterson and Jackson, both have been relatively durable their respective careers. especially considering how violently they play.

I'd love to see Charles return strong as well.
[/quote]
Steven jackson is at the bottom of the list with ray rice for yards after contact. That alone keeps them away from the best RB conversation.

[Tiz]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1343147466' post='1102453']


They don't have an extensive history of injuries. AP and McFadden do...
[/quote]

Fact that one missed so much time so early in his career actually puts him a worse spot than a guy who went this long without a major injury. Needless to say neither foster nor Charles has had more than 13 starts Peterson did 15 three times...so do you wanna rephrase your post to show me how either is more durable

[Bullrush]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1343088821' post='1102191']
Peterson doesnt do it all. He isnt a good receiver and he has fumble-itis. He is a beast of a RB, but he isnt the weapon out of the backfield that Rice, McCoy or Foster are.

Just to put it in perspective, Peterson has never eclipsed 2,000 total yards form scrimmage. Rice has done that twice in 3 seasons.
[/quote]
I can't agree on anything you said, no offense. Foster, McCoy, Johnson, Charles and McFadden only exist because of their O-Lines. You put any back in Houstons offense and he will produce. Look up the stats of their backups. And what do you mean with the fumble issue? Peterson fumbled ONE time in 2011. And he fumbled ONE time in 2010. You're basically bashing his ability to stay on his feet and not quit on a play, because that's when the fumbles happened in the past. That's not a negative trait. Let's see McCoy carry 3 guys on his back in to the endzone. Let's see any of the backs you mentioned do that. They can't. What they can do is run if they're given a free lane by their O-Line. Most RB's could do that at the NFL level. Also Peterson has good hands. In today's NFL you don't have to be able to catch or block, that's what you have 3rd down backs/backups for. I could care less about his ability to play on 3rd downs. I wouldn't want my star RB to get the ball on every down on every play, they have to be rested at some point. I'm just saying that those other guys would not be able to produce in a different offense. And that's the deal breaker right there. Put Peterson in Kansas or Oaklands offense and he'll put up 2500 rushing yards if they hand him the ball that many times. Put McFadden or Charles in Minnesota's offense and they'll struggle to get a 1000 yards. Just look at what happened with Chris Johnson. I think you let the numbers and bigplays when they walk over the middle untouched fool you. But to each his own.

[PeRK82]

[quote name='RavensAllTheWay' timestamp='1343082572' post='1102162']
Rice hasn't missed a game since taking over as the #1 back in 09, and he has over [b]1,200 touches in the regular season, 1,300+ overall. Those are hard to accomplish as a RB. [/b]

I also think CJ should still be considered, despite his down year.
[/quote]

Not really when you have Cam " i formation " Cameron as you O.C. LOL

[hawkprey]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1343148819' post='1102466']
Steven jackson is at the bottom of the list with ray rice for yards after contact. That alone keeps them away from the best RB conversation.
[/quote]
Yards after contact just shows that Jackson doesn't have much left in the tank and Ray Rice isn't a power back. Ray doesn't get YAC because he makes people miss.

[The Raven]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1343155992' post='1102508']
I can't agree on anything you said, no offense. Foster, McCoy, Johnson, Charles and McFadden only exist because of their O-Lines. You put any back in Houstons offense and he will produce. Look up the stats of their backups. And what do you mean with the fumble issue? Peterson fumbled ONE time in 2011. And he fumbled ONE time in 2010. You're basically bashing his ability to stay on his feet and not quit on a play, because that's when the fumbles happened in the past. That's not a negative trait. Let's see McCoy carry 3 guys on his back in to the endzone. Let's see any of the backs you mentioned do that. They can't. What they can do is run if they're given a free lane by their O-Line. Most RB's could do that at the NFL level. Also Peterson has good hands. In today's NFL you don't have to be able to catch or block, that's what you have 3rd down backs/backups for. I could care less about his ability to play on 3rd downs. I wouldn't want my star RB to get the ball on every down on every play, they have to be rested at some point. I'm just saying that those other guys would not be able to produce in a different offense. And that's the deal breaker right there. Put Peterson in Kansas or Oaklands offense and he'll put up 2500 rushing yards if they hand him the ball that many times. Put McFadden or Charles in Minnesota's offense and they'll struggle to get a 1000 yards. Just look at what happened with Chris Johnson. I think you let the numbers and bigplays when they walk over the middle untouched fool you. But to each his own.
[/quote]

You're crazy. In order for him to reach 2500 yards AP would need to average 8.3 yards a carry over 300 carries. Last year he averaged 4.7 a carry. He would need over 500 carries to reach 2500 yards. That is impossible.

I still stand by MJD though. He kept a 4.7 over 343 rushes... [u]On the[i] Jaguars![/i][/u] 1606 yards. 8 TDs. 374 receiving yards. He fell only 20 yards short of 2000 total yards. On the [u][i]Jaguars[/i][/u]. With Blaine Gabbert as the quarterback. No weapons around him. He IS the Jaguars offense.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1343148749' post='1102464']
[b]he also doesnt get the targets and the reps. If any of the backs got the kind of check down work that RR gets, they would all put up similar numbers[/b]. Its between AP/ Foster /Mccoy. AP has it all and the guy just get yards where most backs would go down. Foster is also another one who has crazy speed for his size and Mccoy as he showed last year, is a monster.

They are all better than Ray. Ray could be the best but he is indecicive and cannot run between the tackels. Watch every single sound fx or replace of the ravens and its nothign but the Burk and Leach telling rice to trust the line and run behind him. Thats why we have so many runs for loss and small gains. He needs to make one move and hit the hole. he either doesnt trust himself or the line, which is a bad bad situation for a runningback.. It makes you sick to see him run into the back of a 320 pound lineman, bounce off and get tackled by the other team. They need to get the blocking and assignments settled.
[/quote]

Extremely flawed logic here. There is a reason why Rice is on the field during 3rd downs and it's because he is an exceptional receiver. AP isnt a great receiver and he isnt a great blocker so he comes off the field.

I'm not going to argue that Rice is the best back in the NFL because I dont think there is a best back right now. There are 4-5 guys who could be. This article makes a strong argument for Rice and there really isnt anything I can disagree with, but his production is on an equivalent level with the rest of these guys.

There is absolutely no way you can say McCoy, Foster etc. are appreciably better than Rice though. Rice cant run between the tackles? Ummm, thats jsut plain wrong. The marjority of his big runs came right behind Yanda. I'm pretty sure that is between the tackles.

[PuRock]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1343156891' post='1102514']
I still stand by MJD though. He kept a 4.7 over 343 rushes... [u]On the[i] Jaguars![/i][/u] 1606 yards. 8 TDs. 374 receiving yards. He fell only 20 yards short of 2000 total yards. On the [u][i]Jaguars[/i][/u]. With Blaine Gabbert as the quarterback. No weapons around him. He IS the Jaguars offense.
[/quote]

MJD Is about as underrated as they come in this discussion. Put MJD in the Houston offense with their OLine blocking and AJ stretching the field. MJD has a epic year.

He's elusive and tough (especially for his size).

[gabefergy]

[quote name='Bullrush' timestamp='1343155992' post='1102508']
I can't agree on anything you said, no offense. Foster, McCoy, Johnson, Charles and McFadden only exist because of their O-Lines. You put any back in Houstons offense and he will produce. Look up the stats of their backups. And what do you mean with the fumble issue? Peterson fumbled ONE time in 2011. And he fumbled ONE time in 2010. You're basically bashing his ability to stay on his feet and not quit on a play, because that's when the fumbles happened in the past. That's not a negative trait. Let's see McCoy carry 3 guys on his back in to the endzone. Let's see any of the backs you mentioned do that. They can't. What they can do is run if they're given a free lane by their O-Line. Most RB's could do that at the NFL level. Also Peterson has good hands. In today's NFL you don't have to be able to catch or block, that's what you have 3rd down backs/backups for. I could care less about his ability to play on 3rd downs. I wouldn't want my star RB to get the ball on every down on every play, they have to be rested at some point. I'm just saying that those other guys would not be able to produce in a different offense. And that's the deal breaker right there. Put Peterson in Kansas or Oaklands offense and he'll put up 2500 rushing yards if they hand him the ball that many times. Put McFadden or Charles in Minnesota's offense and they'll struggle to get a 1000 yards. Just look at what happened with Chris Johnson. I think you let the numbers and bigplays when they walk over the middle untouched fool you. But to each his own.
[/quote]

You dont think a RB's ability to stay on the field on 3rd downs is important? Thats pretty laughable. You are right that AP has gotten better with his ball protection, but that was a serious flaw to his game and there is no guarantee it doesnt come back. I dont care if he is trying to get extra yards, when you are fumbling 8-9 times per season that is unacceptable. Also, dont tell me that AP would put up 2500 or 3000 yards per game. He had an excellent OL for the first few years of his career. They have gotten older and declined, and AP's production has declined. Coincidence? probably not.

[PuRock]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1343158401' post='1102522']
Extremely flawed logic here. There is a reason why Rice is on the field during 3rd downs and it's because he is an exceptional receiver. AP isnt a great receiver and he isnt a great blocker so he comes off the field.

I'm not going to argue that Rice is the best back in the NFL because I dont think there is a best back right now. There are 4-5 guys who could be. This article makes a strong argument for Rice and there really isnt anything I can disagree with, but his production is on an equivalent level with the rest of these guys.

[b]There is absolutely no way you can say McCoy, Foster etc. are appreciably better than Rice though. Rice cant run between the tackles? Ummm, thats jsut plain wrong. The marjority of his big runs came right behind Yanda. I'm pretty sure that is between the tackles.[/b]
[/quote]

I agree with you on this point. McCoy and Foster generate a lot of production from the systems they are in. Foster has a great O-line with threats down field. McCoy has a QB who is a threat to run so teams have to prevent that option which opens up a ton of things for McCoy.

There is no way I'm putting Foster or McCoy over Rice as a better back. Unless we are talking fantasy purposes.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1343156891' post='1102514']
You're crazy. In order for him to reach 2500 yards AP would need to average 8.3 yards a carry over 300 carries. Last year he averaged 4.7 a carry. He would need over 500 carries to reach 2500 yards. That is impossible.

I still stand by MJD though. He kept a 4.7 over 343 rushes... [u]On the[i] Jaguars![/i][/u] 1606 yards. 8 TDs. 374 receiving yards. He fell only 20 yards short of 2000 total yards. On the [u][i]Jaguars[/i][/u]. With Blaine Gabbert as the quarterback. No weapons around him. He IS the Jaguars offense.
[/quote]

I think MJD is the complete package, and he really is that entire offense. The problem is he has had durability concerns and his best is probably behind him. The fact that he plays on a bad team hurts him.

[The Raven]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1343158530' post='1102525']
MJD Is about as underrated as they come in this discussion. Put MJD in the Houston offense with their OLine blocking and AJ stretching the field. MJD has a epic year.

He's elusive and tough (especially for his size).
[/quote]

He'd kill defenses on Houston. And he's so physical for being a smaller back. People like to compare Rice and MJD, but MJD is a much more physical back. He's a fantastic blocker too. Remember when he destroyed Merriman?

[Alexir]

[quote name='Tiz' timestamp='1343146821' post='1102451']
It's funny you go from crossing off players who can't last the season to mentioning one who missed a few games for a hammy and another who missed a year...
[/quote]

DMC never finishes a season, Arian Foster missed 2 games and still put up amazing numbers. Adrian Peterson disappears in december. Yeah Charles was out for the year but that doesn't mean he is injury prone. If it comes up again this year, then I guess we can put that label on him.

[hawkprey]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1343158771' post='1102529']
I think MJD is the complete package, and he really is that entire offense. The problem is he has had durability concerns and his best is probably behind him. The fact that he plays on a bad team hurts him.
[/quote]
Any RB would be the entire offense with Gabbert at the helm and no one to throw to.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1343180940' post='1102686']

Any RB would be the entire offense with Gabbert at the helm and no one to throw to.
[/quote]
True, but most RBs wouldnt have the same production that MJD put up last season. That offense was dreadful.

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1343148819' post='1102466']
Steven jackson is at the bottom of the list with ray rice for yards after contact. That alone keeps them away from the best RB conversation.
[/quote]

Okay...

As hawkprey said, there are reasonable explanations why Jackson and Rice haven't churned out many yards after contact in recent seasons. But saying that that drawback alone keeps them from being in the conversation for best RB is foolish. Rice does so many other things well, as does Jackson.

[nk02442]

[quote name='hawkprey' timestamp='1343156446' post='1102513']
Yards after contact just shows that Jackson doesn't have much left in the tank and Ray Rice isn't a power back. Ray doesn't get YAC because he makes people miss.
[/quote]

No he doesnt. It means when a defender gets a hand on them, they go down fast. I agree part of baltimore problem is the bad O line , but both of those guys arent in the same conversation as AP. I dont really think any RB has that kind of skill set and ability to make plays out of nothing.

[The Raven]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1343223342' post='1102805']
No he doesnt. It means when a defender gets a hand on them, they go down fast. I agree part of baltimore problem is the bad O line , but both of those guys arent in the same conversation as AP. I dont really think any RB has that kind of skill set and ability to make plays out of nothing.
[/quote]

I agree halfway with you. Their lack of yards after contact is disappointing, but that's not enough to keep them out of the best RB discussion. I've always liked running backs who fall forward and chug through defenders. Rice just goes straight down the majority of the time. But, that's not exactly a problem. He's good at a lot of other things. Although, MJD has a similar build and does very well at getting yards after contact. I think that speaks for how good MJD is, not how Rice could be better.

[flynismo]

There's Peterson. Then there is everyone else.

[gabefergy]

[quote name='flynismo' timestamp='1343342095' post='1103720']
There's Peterson. Then there is everyone else.
[/quote]
Not anymore. He can reclaim his crown if/when he is healthy and looking like his old self.

[cobrajet]

[quote name='gabefergy' timestamp='1343184355' post='1102703']
True, but most RBs wouldnt have the same production that MJD put up last season. That offense was dreadful.
[/quote]
It killed me last year when our offense was even more dreadful on primetime. The Jags had to cover the empty seats for the game. MJD is impressive, but he did not show up to camp. That team has issues.