Penn State Penalties

[FerrariFan87]

The NCAA has announced numerous penalties against Penn State and its football program, including: $60M fine, vacation of all wins from 1998-2011, loss of scholarships, and a 4-year postseason ban for football, as well as 5 years of probation.

Do you all agree with these penalties given the unprecedented nature of this case?

I'm all for it, but don't like how it affects so negatively the players who had nothing to do with it... although they are free to transfer and play immediately.

[Moderator 3]

How do you "vacate" wins? Seriously...what does that mean? What about the losses? Does that mean that Penn State essentially lost every game they played for 14 years? Do the other schools get wins for those games?

[PuRock]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1343053354' post='1101973']
How do you "vacate" wins? Seriously...what does that mean? What about the losses? Does that mean that Penn State essentially lost every game they played for 14 years? Do the other schools get wins for those games?
[/quote]

They won't be added to other teams wins. It's just a way of reducing the schools (and Paterno's ) wins.

I was actually in State College over the weekend to visit my wife's parents. It was surprisingly quiet. Wife asked me if I wanted to visit the statute. Ofcourse I said no, because I am not a Penn Stater.

[YYZ66]

[quote name='PuRock' timestamp='1343053728' post='1101975']
They won't be added to other teams wins. [b]It's just a way of reducing the schools (and Paterno's ) wins. [/b]

I was actually in State College over the weekend to visit my wife's parents. It was surprisingly quiet. Wife asked me if I wanted to visit the statute. Ofcourse I said no, because I am not a Penn Stater.
[/quote]

Paterno no longer has the most wins, goes back to Bowden I believe. I'd imagine Happy Valley isn't too happy at the moment, I'm sure it is quite quiet up there.

[berad]

The Hammer was dropped. Rightfully so. Although "vacating" wins and records is mostly a sham, seeing Paterno's name drop from winningest college coach was pretty poignant. They brought it on themselves, showing more concern for the reputation of the college and football problem than the victimized children.

[JO_75]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1343060364' post='1102027']
The Hammer was dropped. Rightfully so. Although "vacating" wins and records is mostly a sham, seeing Paterno's name drop from winningest college coach was pretty poignant. They brought it on themselves, showing more concern for the reputation of the college and football problem than the victimized children.
[/quote]

Exactly. It never was about Football but for some reason they felt the need to make it about Football. They didn't need to vacate the wins as that was just way too harsh but at least banned Sandusky from Penn State, maybe a restraining order saying he can't come near 500 feet of the school, something that wouldn't punish the school's football team but just the person involved.

In total, wiping out all those games, that is a total of 184 games being thrown away, a 112-62 record in that time period gone, 65 of those wins were from Big Ten Conference Play.

More here: [url="http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/whiteout-has-new-meaning-for-penn-state-football-1096797/"]http://www.statecollege.com/news/columns/whiteout-has-new-meaning-for-penn-state-football-1096797/[/url]

[K-Dog]

bull turds! !!!! This punnishes the players far too much.

[plesiosaur]

I suppose the reason they made it about football is because the football program is where the corruption was. I hope though that the individual players' stats stay where they are. Speaking of players, Penn State should be compelled to give the athletes on scholarships maximum assistance to get them to programs where they can really play this season.

[AwakenTheDemon]

I'm all for it. even the vacated wins. Who wants to see the most successful coach in College Football history be one who put his college program ahead of the protection of children? I surely do not.

And do not forget that the NCAA is also letting any Penn State player to transfer from the program to any other university without having to sit out for a year. Why should any player even stay? No post season play, disgraced program, disgraced legacy.The only reason I can think is just to say "Hey, I played for Penn State". But I just don't think that's going to be enough to keep some players, who want those trophies, and wins. Couple that with the loss of 10 scholarships a year, and it's going to be hard for Penn State to stay competitive in the Big Ten.

[MsMarvel73]

I'm going to reply once and that's it. I'm weary of this topic already and wish it would just go away everywhere. PM me to continue discussion with me if you really want to, but don't be surprised if I don't answer right away.

I agree with the sanctions (and I AM a former Penn State student, mind you--branch campus and main campus). Are the penalties harsh? Of course they are and rightly so. The culture, the 'football is everything' mentality, that developed that allowed this to happen needs to go. That permeates State College and the entire Penn State University system, trust me on that.

There are no golden pedestals. Young men suffered tremendous trauma at the hands of Sandusky and his enablers. Sure the sanctions are harsh but hasn't Penn State suffered even worse in the court of public opinion?

[PuRock]

[quote name='plesiosaur' timestamp='1343063087' post='1102053']
I suppose the reason they made it about football is because the football program is where the corruption was. I hope though that the individual players' stats stay where they are. Speaking of players, Penn State should be compelled to give the athletes on scholarships maximum assistance to get them to programs where they can really play this season.
[/quote]

Penn State put Football before the safety of Children. Therefore I have no problem with the Sanctions. They have to be hit the hardest there. You have to send that message.

The players on the team right now, are the ones who got screwed the most. But the victims are more important than these players. Most of the players, will have a chance to transfer schools. And the ones who don't transfer schools get a better opportunity to showcase their skills and still play college football at Penn State (Perhaps even get more playing time). Also, players who might have never gotten a shot to play college football at Penn State, will have a opportunity to do so.

[PuRock]

[quote name='INRavensgirl' timestamp='1343063633' post='1102061']
I'm going to reply once and that's it. I'm weary of this topic already and wish it would just go away everywhere. PM me to continue discussion with me if you really want to, but don't be surprised if I don't answer right away.

I agree with the sanctions (and I AM a former Penn State student, mind you--branch campus and main campus). Are the penalties harsh? Of course they are and rightly so. The culture, the 'football is everything' mentality, that developed that allowed this to happen needs to go. That permeates State College and the entire Penn State University system, trust me on that.

There are no golden pedestals. [b]Young men suffered tremendous trauma at the hands of Sandusky and his enablers. Sure the sanctions are harsh but hasn't Penn State suffered even worse in the court of public opinion?[/b]
[/quote]

That's the way it always is. A lot of the time its not about the person who committed the crime, but the grander scope (or bigger thing to blame) behind it. Just look at Colorado. The coverage is more on gun laws then it is about the person who committed the crime.

But don't worry about Sandusky. I know what they do to child molesters in prison. They'll bring him to the brink of his existence. Life is never easy in Prison. And its unbearable if your a child molester.

[Moderator 2]

[quote name='Moderator 3' timestamp='1343053354' post='1101973']
How do you "vacate" wins? Seriously...what does that mean? What about the losses? Does that mean that Penn State essentially lost every game they played for 14 years? Do the other schools get wins for those games?
[/quote]I did not get that either and understand more reading this thread but it still seems weird

[H8R]

It punishes the Football Program and UNIVERSITY.. The program that thought it was larger then life. The program/university that thought they could sweep everything under a rug... I have no problem with the penalty.
It was always said Joe Pa was Penn state ... well, Joe Pa seems to have been a piece of trash.... Along with Spanyard and Curley (sp). It wasn't just the football program that was involved in the conspiracy. Let's not even get into the dissapperance of the States Attorney that went missing after busting the case open YEARS ago.

[Purple Punishment]

Out of curiousity, what was SMUs penalties the crippled them for more than 25 years now

[Ed_Reed20]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1343074170' post='1102114']
Out of curiousity, what was SMUs penalties the crippled them for more than 25 years now
[/quote]


- The 1987 season was canceled; only conditioning drills (without pads) were permitted until the spring of 1988.

- All home games in 1988 were canceled. SMU was allowed to play their seven regularly scheduled away games so that other institutions would not be financially affected. The university ultimately chose to cancel the away games as well.

- The team's existing probation was extended to 1990. Its existing ban from bowl games and live television was extended to 1989.

- Loss of 55 new scholarship positions over 4 years.

- The team was allowed to hire only five full-time assistant coaches instead of the typical nine.

- No off-campus recruiting was permitted until August 1988, and no paid visits could be made to campus by potential recruits until the start of the 1988–89 school year.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_penalty_(NCAA)#Southern_Methodist_University_football"]Link[/url]

[ThePurpleWall]

[quote name='berad' timestamp='1343060364' post='1102027']
The Hammer was dropped. Rightfully so. Although "vacating" wins and records is mostly a sham, seeing Paterno's name drop from winningest college coach was pretty poignant. They brought it on themselves, showing more concern for the reputation of the college and football problem than the victimized children.
[/quote]

[Ravenslifer]

I feel bad for the past, present, and any future Penn State football players who did nothing wrong and are now penalized by this. But like SMU, this should send a message to every current and future head coach out there that there are plenty of things out there more important than football, and they need to come first.

[NaveSenrag]

I'm not sure how to feel about the sanctions. On the one hand, they are harsh but fair, and are obviously meant to make certain that this doesn't happen again. On the other hand it is humbling to see a man who devoted 46 years to Penn State have his life essentially erased from memory. I suppose that too has a point, though. The NCAA is saying that no one is safe from punishment, and that child abuse will not be tolerated.

[TheRavenouseD2008]

its not even about the abuse its more about the Accountability we hold as People to one another . When we Elevate a Sport , an Event or anything above the well being of each other we lose site of what it is to be human. I hope no one takes this wrong but we are all accountable for our actions , Pennstate has as some york natives here in pa put it become a Holy Land of Football making it an Idol. I pray and hope we as ravens fans never lose site of that fundamental , visiting fans , players , are people and deserve respect and dignity and to be held to the same accountabilty we are , that being said none of us are above the law and I will not support any player that thinks he or she is or any coach , that is why I am glad we let our oline coach go last year ,

[The Raven]

My only concern with the penalties is how it negatively affects the innocent players. I think that they got screwed.

[Purple Punishment]

Im trying to ignore this whole Penn State controversy and the removal of the Joe Paterno statue and just look the other way. I call this approach, the "Joe Paterno"

[Gordo52]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1343097220' post='1102248']
My only concern with the penalties is how it negatively affects the innocent players. I think that they got screwed.
[/quote]
This^
---
I wonder what that piece of garbage Sandusky thinks about all this. Does anyone know if he even apoligized for anything? I know his word doesn't carry one piece of value but I'm just curious.

[Purple Punishment]

[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1343098846' post='1102265']
This^
---
I wonder what that piece of garbage Sandusky thinks about all this. Does anyone know if he even apoligized for anything? I know his word doesn't carry one piece of value but I'm just curious.
[/quote]

An apology wouldnt even be sincere and if it was even a speck of sincerity in it, I wouldnt believe a damn sound out of his mouth if I were one of those boys/men that he took full advantage of. Monsters like him have no capacity to be sincere or even honest when it comes to atonement. His apology would be vaporword

Sandusky single handedly destroyed an athletic program with his actions. Although many tried to cover it up and regardless of my joke up above. Paterno heard a mixed account from McQueary but did his duty to pass the information up to his highers, therefore cleaning his hands of it. In the military, if I told my leaders about something of that nature, I wouldn't have to say another word. Paterno shouldnt of had to either. I feel the school took his statue down to make him a fall guy for all of this. Easy to kill the icon of Paterno and take away his name after bringing the school so much in terms of money and education. I just love how Paterno was criticized for Sandusky showing up on campus after he resigned. I mean, is Joe Paterno supposed to have a buzzer in his pocket alerting him of Sanduskys arrival? Isn't it the responsibility of the University to decide who, is welcome and denied access to their campus.

I just feel the school chose Paterno as a fall guy and its easy to kill a dead man. Hes not going to fight back.

[T3hRaven]

The NCAA didn't have the jurisdiction to rule on this issue. It's quite ridiculous.

[Gordo52]

[quote name='Purple Punishment' timestamp='1343100036' post='1102276']
An apology wouldnt even be sincere and if it was even a speck of sincerity in it, I wouldnt believe a damn sound out of his mouth if I were one of those boys/men that he took full advantage of. Monsters like him have no capacity to be sincere or even honest when it comes to atonement. His apology would be vaporword

Sandusky single handedly destroyed an athletic program with his actions. Although many tried to cover it up and regardless of my joke up above. Paterno heard a mixed account from McQueary but did his duty to pass the information up to his highers, therefore cleaning his hands of it. In the military, if I told my leaders about something of that nature, I wouldn't have to say another word. Paterno shouldnt of had to either. I feel the school took his statue down to make him a fall guy for all of this. Easy to kill the icon of Paterno and take away his name after bringing the school so much in terms of money and education. I just love how Paterno was criticized for Sandusky showing up on campus after he resigned. I mean, is Joe Paterno supposed to have a buzzer in his pocket alerting him of Sanduskys arrival? Isn't it the responsibility of the University to decide who, is welcome and denied access to their campus.

I just feel the school chose Paterno as a fall guy and its easy to kill a dead man. Hes not going to fight back.
[/quote]
I agree. Paterno could have done a lot more, and he's wrong for not doing so. But like you said it's easy to kill a dead man. They are both wrong. Sandusky doesn't deserver to be talked about, but I think everyone is so fixated on the statue and on Paterno that people are forgetting the main cause. Honestly I think they should have just covered it up and left it like that. Removing the statue removes the bad Paterno did, but it also removes the good he did also. He never had the oppurtunity to defend himself, he did have the oppurtunity to stop that monster, but according to a document of some guy named Freeh, Paterno is basically as wrong as Sandusky.

[PuRock]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1343097220' post='1102248']
My only concern with the penalties is how it negatively affects the innocent players. I think that they got screwed.
[/quote]
[quote name='Ravens<3' timestamp='1343098846' post='1102265']
This^
---
I wonder what that piece of garbage Sandusky thinks about all this. Does anyone know if he even apoligized for anything? I know his word doesn't carry one piece of value but I'm just curious.
[/quote]

It does make things harder for them. But most of the talented players will get a chance to transfer schools. Which will allow for other players that normally wouldn't see playing time to get time. Plus, additional kids will have their dreams fulfilled by getting a chance to put on a Penn State uniform (who normally wouldn't). So there is some upside.

[berad]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1343100825' post='1102286']
The NCAA didn't have the jurisdiction to rule on this issue. It's quite ridiculous.
[/quote]

Multiple cases of known child abuse, neglecting to tell authorities, and the ensuing cover-up all for the sake of the football program don't constitute NCAA misconduct?

[AwakenTheDemon]

[quote name='T3hRaven' timestamp='1343100825' post='1102286']
The NCAA didn't have the jurisdiction to rule on this issue. It's quite ridiculous.
[/quote]

If Sandusky had been reported, arrested back when he was first discovered having contact with boys, and all those kids he had abused between then and 2011, then you would be right. The NCAA would not have the right to drop the hammer. However, since Paterno and Penn State chose not only to ignore Sandusky's actions, but [i]empower[/i] it by never banning him from locker rooms after discovering his actions, all in the name of not souring Penn State Football's image with negative publicity, they fully have the right to bring sanctions upon the university and football program.

Sandusky was a sick man, who abused the easiest prey, children in a charity who initially thought Sandusky was helping them. He used Penn State locker rooms and showers for his crimes. Would have limiting his access to those areas either outright or with supervision of a current Penn State employee have stopped it? Probably not. However, it would have prevented the college from getting so much blood on their hands. The fact that everything was covered up and ignored just so the glorious football program would not be sullied by bad public image is incredibly ironic now. I think people would have thought more of Paterno if he had reported Sandusky to the police and his superior. Knowing how beloved and regarded as a legend at State College and the fan base, he'd probably have been reported as having "stopped a serial child molester".

Paterno started taking the fall while he was still alive, and he's not the only one who's taking the fall for it. He's accused (for what it's worth now) of conspiring to cover up and protect a child molester, and you have to have more than one person to conspire. They're also including Tim Curley, Gary Schultz, and Graham Spanier in that "conspiracy". Y'know, for what it's worth.

[ThePurpleWall]

they should of got the Death Penalty,their football program shutdown for 4 years,and those top guys should have a show cause on them,or better yet,they cant do anything related with college for the rest of their lives,should of fined them as well.