New Ravens With 3.381 Million Cap Space?

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Bazooka Joe' timestamp='1342623244' post='1100036']
This is Kindle's third season. Should be a RFA after this season.
[/quote]

It's not when you were drafted, it's about your service time. Kindle didn't get service credit for that 2010 season when it was unclear if he'd even play football again.

So even though he was drafted in 2010, 2011 was actually his rookie season and he's now viewed as only a 2nd year player.

[codizzle]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1342628931' post='1100099']


That would be great news, if the same people weren't saying that it was a 25% chance that Ray Rice got signed just days ago.

However Daniel Jeremiah was apart of the Ravens organization at one point, and I'm sure he still has some connections. So maybe he's on to something.
[/quote]
Agreed.. Just throwing it out there

[TheMadRaven]

We definitely need to sign a washed up receiver that can drop a key pass in the playoffs

I kid.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1342546301' post='1099664']
are there any free agents worth taking? I say save it for Flacco, or if anyone else gets injured, maybe throw some of it reed's way to shut him up.
[/quote]

Exactly right! I say stack that money and use it to take care of Flacco because you know it's going to be as difficult as Rice's was. I guarantee it.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='Dfence4champs2052' timestamp='1342634691' post='1100181']
Exactly right! I say stack that money and use it to take care of Flacco because you know it's going to be as difficult as Rice's was. I guarantee it.
[/quote]

I think this Flacco contract is going to be a headache and a half. He believes he's a top 5 QB and will want to be paid like one. however from our perspective we dont even have a top 15 offence....and we rarely score more than 20 points per game, and with our defence if we did, we'd go 16-0. However, flacco may very well be elite, but until he is unleashed from the shackles of Cam Cameron, we may never know. Do we pay him like an elite QB, and hope he proves us right, or give him a short, modest 3-4 year deal and see what happens and go from there?

[1/28/01]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1342636083' post='1100202']


I think this Flacco contract is going to be a headache and a half. He believes he's a top 5 QB and will want to be paid like one. however from our perspective we dont even have a top 15 offence....and we rarely score more than 20 points per game, and with our defence if we did, we'd go 16-0. However, flacco may very well be elite, but until he is unleashed from the shackles of Cam Cameron, we may never know. Do we pay him like an elite QB, and hope he proves us right, or give him a short, modest 3-4 year deal and see what happens and go from there?
[/quote]
Yeah, we actually averaged 24 points a game last year. Not saying thats a ton, but lets talk in truths here.

[black blood purple passion]

[quote name='1/28/01' timestamp='1342636345' post='1100207']
Yeah, we actually averaged 24 points a game last year. Not saying thats a ton, but lets talk in truths here.
[/quote]
did we?.....perhaps I've been pessimistic about our offence due to its poor showings vs terrible teams. I just feel like they rely on the big play, vs long drives that keeps our defence off the field, and fresh. But if we're averaging 24 points/game, kudos to them but still.

[Dfence4champs2052]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1342636083' post='1100202']
I think this Flacco contract is going to be a headache and a half. He believes he's a top 5 QB and will want to be paid like one. however from our perspective we dont even have a top 15 offence....and we rarely score more than 20 points per game, and with our defence if we did, we'd go 16-0. However, flacco may very well be elite, but until he is unleashed from the shackles of Cam Cameron, we may never know. Do we pay him like an elite QB, and hope he proves us right, or give him a short, modest 3-4 year deal and see what happens and go from there?
[/quote]

I completely agree. If they don't get him signed this season it would essentially destroy our cap space because of the top 5 average (thanks, Brees). And Joe will probably insist on top 10 QB money. I vote go modest deal with a nice bonus and then re do the deal if he outplays it.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='black blood purple passion' timestamp='1342636083' post='1100202']
I think this Flacco contract is going to be a headache and a half. He believes he's a top 5 QB and will want to be paid like one. however from our perspective we dont even have a top 15 offence....and we rarely score more than 20 points per game, and with our defence if we did, we'd go 16-0. However, flacco may very well be elite, but until he is unleashed from the shackles of Cam Cameron, we may never know. Do we pay him like an elite QB, and hope he proves us right, or give him a short, modest 3-4 year deal and see what happens and go from there?
[/quote]

I think it all depends on what everyone's view of "ELITE" level contract is. The only guys that are getting Elite money right now are Brady, Peyton and Brees. Those are the 3 guys plus Rogers who are universally viewed as elite. All three of those guy are in the 20M per year range. That's elite money. Plus all of those guys are working on their 2nd big contract. Flacco is looking at his first.

Flacco is not in that range and there is nothing he can do between now and 2013 to get into that range. So Elite money 20M per is out of the question.

It's the second teir guys that Flacco should and will be compared to and he stacks up well with those guys. The 2nd tier guys are getting between 14-17 Mil per year. This is where Flacco will land.

[Yum Chickens]

Quick question though, I seem to remember some Raven having their deal restructured this season, was it Yanda?

[The Raven]

[quote name='Yum Chickens' timestamp='1342639537' post='1100262']
Quick question though, I seem to remember some Raven having their deal restructured this season, was it Yanda?
[/quote]

Yes, Yanda restructured his contract. I don't remember when though.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1342639786' post='1100264']
Yes, Yanda restructured his contract. I don't remember when though.
[/quote]
Yanda is pretty much the "good guy" on the team. No nonsense and a lot of generosity.

[The Raven]

[quote name='izvoodoo' timestamp='1342652687' post='1100395']
Yanda is pretty much the "good guy" on the team. No nonsense and a lot of generosity.
[/quote]

That's the truth! Honestly, he's probably my favorite player right now

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='codizzle' timestamp='1342625288' post='1100049']

"Petting manning".. Gotta love that autocorrect
[/quote]

You too. LOL! It's a pain in the butt. Micheal Oher is Oberlin. Torrey is Torrent. And Matt Born was Bork but is now Born.

What's funny is what autocorrect does with Asa Jackson's first name. It's [profanity deleted] Jackson

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1342580708' post='1099923']
You may have read my post, I said between 16-17 mil a year. What's the issue?
[/quote]

Thats a lot man, im thinking 13-14.

[izvoodoo]

[quote name='The Raven' timestamp='1342663825' post='1100467']
That's the truth! Honestly, he's probably my favorite player right now
[/quote]

Remember in Cincinnati when he could barely breath and played lights out? I'm going to start a Marshall Yanda appreciation thread.

[BloodRaven]

We've got too many two gap tackles and not enough pass rushers for rotation and packages, we saw it when our starters wore down more than usual last season and we couldn't get to the QB, now we don't even have Suggs.

Sign Andre Carter to a 1 year deal.

[Ravenslifer]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1342675862' post='1100527']
We've got too many two gap tackles and not enough pass rushers for rotation and packages, we saw it when our starters wore down more than usual last season and we couldn't get to the QB, now we don't even have Suggs.

[b]Sign Andre Carter to a 1 year deal.[/b]
[/quote]

IDK, he seems to be a guy who has a good season every other year, which means this would be a down year (although the fact that he did get double digit sacks for a god-awful Redskins team in 09 intrigues me).

[ravens88]

[size=5][sub]Just going to throw this out there.. I would prefer extending Flacco or Reed but adding someone to replace zibikowski or Haruki could be Jim leonard.. apparently the jets are not resigning him i think if i a week goes by and no one grabs him he could be a solid steal for depth. plus he knows most of the players on defense. Just a thought.[/sub][/size]

[size=4][sub][url="http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/19/jets-wont-be-re-signing-jim-leonhard/"]http://profootballta...g-jim-leonhard/[/url][/sub][/size]

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1342670353' post='1100511']
Thats a lot man, im thinking 13-14.
[/quote]

That's what a lot of people are thinking, but the numbers from where I said just don't support that. People wanna continue to label Flacco as a average QB, but the fact of the matter is, he's a Franchise QB and the Ravens believe he's on his way to greatness.

Philip Rivers got 14 Mil per in 2009. The breakdown of his contract looks a lot like Flacco's should look imo. 13-14 Mil per sounds good. However with the inflation of contracts over the years, Flacco will probably exceed that and if he helps bring a Super Bowl this year, it definitely will imo.

[PuRock]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1342675862' post='1100527']
We've got too many two gap tackles and not enough pass rushers for rotation and packages, we saw it when our starters wore down more than usual last season and we couldn't get to the QB, now we don't even have Suggs.

[b]Sign Andre Carter to a 1 year deal.[/b]
[/quote]

That's actually not that bad of an idea. Though Carter is looking for a long-term deal specifically from the Patriots. Supposedly he has turned down other offers because he feels like with the Patriots he has a great shot of winning that elusive Super Bowl. Patriots on the other hand are waiting for the market to dry up for Carter to bring him back.

I don't know if he'd settle for a 1 year deal outside of NE. But it wouldn't hurt to try.

But on the other hand, I have full faith in our young guys to get it done this year.

[Alexir]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1342707157' post='1100602']
That's what a lot of people are thinking, but the numbers from where I said just don't support that. People wanna continue to label Flacco as a average QB, but the fact of the matter is, he's a Franchise QB and the Ravens believe he's on his way to greatness.

Philip Rivers got 14 Mil per in 2009. The breakdown of his contract looks a lot like Flacco's should look imo. 13-14 Mil per sounds good. However with the inflation of contracts over the years, Flacco will probably exceed that and if he helps bring a Super Bowl this year, it definitely will imo.
[/quote]

Rivers has showed more consistency (minus last year) than Flacco and made 2 trips to Hawaii before that contract. He put up better completion percentages and better qb rating.

With the inflation of the contracts, flacco deserves no more than 15 mil.

[Purple_Polo89]

Flacco deserves what ever the FO is willing to extend his contract for. 13-15 mill is what I'm thinking, even with all the hate Flacco still delivers. t's been times when he throws a ball and I'm like "what the hell, Flacco" but then he'll do something that has me running around my house. All I'm saying really is that after the AFC championship lost we all could tell there was a change in Flacco, he'll do amazing things this year and that big contract will be well deserved and hopefully we can throw a few more rings on this franchise

Go Ravens !!!

[arnie_uk]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1342709592' post='1100627']
Rivers has showed more consistency (minus last year) than Flacco and made 2 trips to Hawaii before that contract. He put up better completion percentages and better qb rating.

With the inflation of the contracts, flacco deserves no more than 15 mil.
[/quote]for once i agree with you on flacco. I couldnt justify more than 15 mil right now. Eli, rivers, ben where all in better positions for their contract. People like fitz, kolb, sanchez are getting areound 12-14. He is better than them, so 15 would be a perfect number.

[arnie_uk]

just re flacco.

This is what brian mcfarland predicts, or thinks it should be

I haven't looked at the specifics of those contracts, but I'd say 7 years/$90M base deal, with escalators that could take it to $105M if met (say, win the SB have $1M added to the base salary of each remaining year; named All-Pro, $500K added; lead the league in TD passes, stuff like that). $40M guaranteed. Signing bonus of $20M, option bonus in 2013 of $10M, 2nd option bonus of $5M in 2014. Base salaries of $1M, $5M, $7M, $9M, $10M, $11M, $12M.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='Alexir' timestamp='1342709592' post='1100627']
Rivers has showed more consistency (minus last year) than Flacco and made 2 trips to Hawaii before that contract. He put up better completion percentages and better qb rating.

With the inflation of the contracts, flacco deserves no more than 15 mil.
[/quote]

Philip Rivers had one really good season heading into the 2009 season. He he was a guy that was allowed to sit and learn his offense and take over with the offense already set in place.

His first 2 seasons of starting, 06-07, Rivers completed 61.7% and 60.2% respectively, it wasn't until his 3rd year(5th NFL) that he completed 65.3%. That's just as inconsistent as Flacco's 60.0, 63.1, 62.8, 57.6% over his career. Now you can point to the 57.6 last season and say that Flacco is regressing while Rivers showed improvement, but Flacco's people will point to the lack of experience surrounding Flacco, and will allow Flacco to prove himself this year.

From 06-07 Rivers passed for 3,388 and 3,152 yards respectively and it wasn't until his 3rd year(5tth NFL) that he posted 4,009 yards. Even with a down year in 2011, Flacco has posted 3,600 yards in 3 consective season. That's more consistency then Rivers.

From 06-07 Rivers threw for 22 and 21 TDs respectively, before throwing for 34 TDs his 3rd season. Flacco has passed for 21,25 and 20 TD over the last 3 seasons. What happens if Flacco passes for over 4,000yards and 30+ TDs this year?

Lastly comes the Pro Bowl. Philp Rivers made the pro bowl in 2006 after posting these numbers. 3,388yds 61.7% 22TD 9Ints 211.8 ypg but his team with 14-2. I'm sure the record and not the numbers put him in the pro bowl. Other then the completion percentage, Flacco had better numbers last season.

Also to show just how flawed the Pro Bowl is, Flacco had the same exact stats as Andy Dalton last year. Dalton made the pro bowl Flacco didn't, the same thing happened in 2010, with Flacco and Matt Ryan. So i'm sure Flacco's camp will agrue that, the popularity contest that is the pro bowl shouldn't hold much weight.

Fact is, Flacco isn't much different then Philip Rivers was entering his 5th NFL season. The only reason I chose Philip Rivers was because he didn't win a Super Bowl up to that point in his career just like Flacco. If you compare Eli and Ben with Flacco, the numbers are even more similar. So other the Super Bowl wins, what shouldn't his camp ask for contracts comparable to those guys?

Say what you want about Flacco, his camp will argue that his numbers don't lie and based off the numbers, he's very comparable to Eli, Philip and Ben, who were the last Franchise QBs to get new deals coming off their rookie years, just like Joe. You say Flacco doesn't deserve any more then 15M and you may be right, but i'm will to bet he won't get anything less then 15 and if he wins a Super Bowl this year it'll be higher.

[Bazooka Joe]

[quote name='BloodRaven' timestamp='1342675862' post='1100527']
We've got too many two gap tackles and not enough pass rushers for rotation and packages, we saw it when our starters wore down more than usual last season and we couldn't get to the QB, now we don't even have Suggs.

Sign Andre Carter to a 1 year deal.
[/quote]

I think that changes this year. Bryan Hall (who I think will be this year's McPhee) and McPhee can provide passrush on the DL. Ngata is always underrated as a passrusher. Also Ryan McBean is probably good for 4 or 5 sacks.

[nk02442]

[quote name='arnie_uk' timestamp='1342718241' post='1100702']
for once i agree with you on flacco. I couldnt justify more than 15 mil right now. Eli, rivers, ben where all in better positions for their contract. People like fitz, kolb, sanchez are getting areound 12-14. He is better than them, so 15 would be a perfect number.
[/quote]

Fitz kolb and sanchez(jets are crazy) are all over paid beacuse the teams have to overpay to keep players. The ravens/patriots/steelers/giants do not do that beacuse they dont have to. Those teams have a ton of CAP space they have to eat up just to hit the cap floor. The good teams actualy have to manage their cap space and tallent. Joe is worth 10-14 a year max for a couple years. He needs to prove he is worth 15+ before we give it to him. Eli/Ben/Brees/Manning have all won atleast one superbowl and multiple pro bowls, including years of high level of play. Joe may be capable of that, but we dont allow him to grow as such, and if you dont produce you dont get paid. I like Joe but he still hasnt proved game to game consistancy and I would like to see him around 12/year for 3-4 years. That way if he doesnt work out we dont pay the cap gods a kings ransom, and joe still gets a fair deal. If he grows and outperfoms that contract, then extend him with a large bonus and years. Recent history shows teams do not let go of a franchise QB for any reason unless they are at the end of their careear and there is a replacement in place. Ravens will pay whatever Joe is worth.

[nk02442]

[quote name='Ravensfan23' timestamp='1342719223' post='1100707']
Philip Rivers had one really good season heading into the 2009 season. He he was a guy that was allowed to sit and learn his offense and take over with the offense already set in place.

His first 2 seasons of starting, 06-07, Rivers completed 61.7% and 60.2% respectively, it wasn't until his 3rd year(5th NFL) that he completed 65.3%. That's just as inconsistent as Flacco's 60.0, 63.1, 62.8, 57.6% over his career. Now you can point to the 57.6 last season and say that Flacco is regressing while Rivers showed improvement, but Flacco's people will point to the lack of experience surrounding Flacco, and will allow Flacco to prove himself this year.

From 06-07 Rivers passed for 3,388 and 3,152 yards respectively and it wasn't until his 3rd year(5tth NFL) that he posted 4,009 yards. Even with a down year in 2011, Flacco has posted 3,600 yards in 3 consective season. That's more consistency then Rivers.

From 06-07 Rivers threw for 22 and 21 TDs respectively, before throwing for 34 TDs his 3rd season. Flacco has passed for 21,25 and 20 TD over the last 3 seasons. What happens if Flacco passes for over 4,000yards and 30+ TDs this year?

Lastly comes the Pro Bowl. Philp Rivers made the pro bowl in 2006 after posting these numbers. 3,388yds 61.7% 22TD 9Ints 211.8 ypg but his team with 14-2. I'm sure the record and not the numbers put him in the pro bowl. Other then the completion percentage, Flacco had better numbers last season.

Also to show just how flawed the Pro Bowl is, Flacco had the same exact stats as Andy Dalton last year. Dalton made the pro bowl Flacco didn't, the same thing happened in 2010, with Flacco and Matt Ryan. So i'm sure Flacco's camp will agrue that, the popularity contest that is the pro bowl shouldn't hold much weight.

Fact is, Flacco isn't much different then Philip Rivers was entering his 5th NFL season. The only reason I chose Philip Rivers was because he didn't win a Super Bowl up to that point in his career just like Flacco. If you compare Eli and Ben with Flacco, the numbers are even more similar. So other the Super Bowl wins, what shouldn't his camp ask for contracts comparable to those guys?

Say what you want about Flacco, his camp will argue that his numbers don't lie and based off the numbers, he's very comparable to Eli, Philip and Ben, who were the last Franchise QBs to get new deals coming off their rookie years, just like Joe. You say Flacco doesn't deserve any more then 15M and you may be right, but i'm will to bet he won't get anything less then 15 and if he wins a Super Bowl this year it'll be higher.
[/quote]

You cant look at stats in a vaccum. They are all realitive to the year and the other players and situation of that year. Rivers had a 92+ QBR that year and the LT running the ball.

The reason Andy Dalton made the pro bowl... He was a 2nd round draft pick rookie on a team that is not a consistant contender and put up beond expectation numbers. Joe is a 5th year 1st round draft pick with 4 years as a starter. Joe should be light years ahead but he is not. That is the difference. We all know the pro bowl is not fair, but to compare joes terrible numbers (won us some important games I will give credit where it is due) there is no question why he won. The two highest rated qbs from AFC last year were Brady and Schuab, one in the SB and one on IR. Rivers had a off year, Ben had an off year and Flacco regressed. Dalton was the next one in line.

[Ravensfan23]

[quote name='nk02442' timestamp='1342721488' post='1100727']
You cant look at stats in a vaccum. They are all realitive to the year and the other players and situation of that year. Rivers had a 92+ QBR that year and the LT running the ball.

The reason Andy Dalton made the pro bowl... He was a 2nd round draft pick rookie on a team that is not a consistant contender and put up beond expectation numbers. Joe is a 5th year 1st round draft pick with 4 years as a starter. Joe should be light years ahead but he is not. That is the difference. We all know the pro bowl is not fair, but to compare joes terrible numbers (won us some important games I will give credit where it is due) there is no question why he won. The two highest rated qbs from AFC last year were Brady and Schuab, one in the SB and one on IR. Rivers had a off year, Ben had an off year and Flacco regressed. Dalton was the next one in line.
[/quote]

It's not about how we as fans look at it, it's comes down to Flacco's people vs the Ravens. The Ravens will show why they feel Flacco deserves xyz, Flacco's people will show why they feel he deserves xyz and they'll ultimately come to agreement somewhere in the middle.

You can list every reason in the book you feel Dalton or Ryan were selected for the probowl over Flacco with basically the same numbers, and you'd probably be correct. However, Flacco's camp won't allow the Ravens to use that as leverage. If the Ravens say Flacco doesn't deserve a contract comparable to Rivers deal in 2009, because Rivers made the Pro Bowl. Flacco's camp will just state how Rivers wasn't the winningest QB over his first 4 seasons in NFL history.

and they'll continue to go back and forth. We can argue all we want how stats don't matter, or their importances, but the fact of the matter is, that's how these players are judged. Flacco's camp would be foolish to try and compare Flacco to the likes of Brees and Brady right now, because realistically he's not that.

However for where he is in his career. Entering his 5th year and coming off his rookie deal, he compares well to those guys in the same stage of their career. As I said before, the only QBs getting Elite money right now are Brees and Manning with 20M per year.

However you don't think guys like Rogers, Eli, and maybe even Brady will be looking at contracts that will far exceed the 15 or so Flacco is about to make? That 15M a year will seem like a ho hum number compare to the money guys like Brees, Petyon, Eli, Brady, and Rogers will be making over the next few year.

You have to find a common starting point and I personally feel that common ground is the 2009 contracts of Eli, Ben and Rivers.I could be way off.